There's a lot of DC praising but can we talk about how they saw a market for tumblr/sjw readers and actually made it work?
It started out with the Batgirl series, got Birds of Prey, then Black Canary, then Green Arrow and... it works. It was bumpy and some stuff happened in the past but now it has some pretty good writing and art and is kind of it's own part of the DC universe.
And then there's Bennett and the DC Bombshells digital comics which are apparently doing well. And after DChadding Bennett, they have her partnered with a competent writer and now she's working on Batwoman with a really good artist.
Not to mention the DC Superhero Girls juggernaut.
DC has actively figured out how to minimize the potential negative impact of these titles and have enough talent to keep it decent. There's no OUTRAGE, no tumblr/twitter/sjw drama, no feminism forced down our throats, nothing!
Why isn't Marvel copying this? Do you think they will?
Reading comprehension, user. Now it's good. New 52 is dead. We're in Rebirth now.
Christian Brown
DC have the approach of just making a bunch of comics for girls, with relatable characters.
Marvel patronise that demographic by drenching their comics in a sea of pandering Mary Sue bullshit. Most of Marvel's female line-up are unrelatable due to being ridiculously perfect.
Jordan Moore
>with relatable characters are we just going to ignore that Batgirl is horrible
Noah Barnes
This. I feel like DC knows how to compartmentalize their imprints/lines really well.
Asher Martin
Because DC doesn't involve their well loved classic characters in it. Example, Bruce IS the Batman, it's part of his character, and it's more than just a mantle, characters like Dick who have taken the name grew into it and it fits with their established character.
Marvel prefers to just replace the classic characters whenever for the sole reason to pander and generate publicity. It's not even subtle, when all of the successors are minorities and women, nothing wrong with that, but it feels so purposeful and blatant that it's as if the MU is being rewritten by tumblr college girls and middle aged guys who want to feel hip and superior.
Carter Hughes
>Birds of Prey is SJW
Michael Rodriguez
I believe that you said it all.
Noah Cook
Well for one DC doesn't shove their ALL NEW young diverse heroes to the forefront of every event over the classic flagship heroes people like.
Chase Morales
supergirl rebirth so far has been garbage
Christopher Robinson
Yeah but her flaws make her endearing and human
Sebastian Edwards
Yeah, and they separate target audiences. Batgirl of Burnside is primarily aimed at the late-teen and early-college female audience. They don't pretend that it should be everyone's cup of tea or that everyone who doesn't read it must hate female characters. They also have comics for people who prefer more mature female characters (like me), or people who just want their monthly Superman fix without the bullshit. Some of their comics are better than others but the tone of Batgirl doesn't bleed into the whole DCU so it's easy to ignore if it's not a thing you like.
Meanwhile at Marvel, you're a shithead if you don't ackowledge Moongirl as the pre-eminent intellect of the Marvel universe.
Parker Russell
The ongoing is just normal but that miniseries... yeah, that's bad.
Isaac Mitchell
Exactely. Batgirl is shit but I don"t have to bear with it in every book. I just wait for it to die.
I really want Barbara back to her wheelchair, but I fear it will never happen. But the ugly hip costume is bound to die in a few year when her book is canceled.
Hudson Anderson
Yeah, Batgirl & the BOP is thoroughly CW, not SJW.
Zachary Gray
Batgirl has some of the most ridiculous writing in the franchise. Like, Guggenheim Hacking ridiculous.
The only genuinely good comic among these is Green Arrow, partially because of how it's self-aware of Ollie's own preachiness, and manages to contrast his claims, his hypocricies and his actual good deeds.
Adam Sullivan
t. Cass/Stephcuck Cry is free.
Juan Price
Yeah, what grinds my gears is she's incredibly naive and promiscuous in each story arc. do we seriously need a new love interest every 4 issues?
Xavier Bennett
We're ignoring how this isn't a general consensus but rather your own personal opinion.
Jordan Martin
Babs Batgirl still sucks. That aside, I suppose it is true DC has managed to avoid fucking up its money makers the way Marvel has. I attribute that to the failure of DCYou though. If that had succeeded, DC may be have been sucking worse than Marvel.
Zachary Anderson
See for example America.
John Ward
>failure of DCYou but I liked DCYou, and it was still miles better than what Marvel is putting out right now.
Adrian Nguyen
Birds of Prey is pretty good, though. Dick is kind of half in the Batgirl sphere, with Helena being on BoP now. But other than Detective Comics, Batgirl really isn't in anything else. Outside of her comics she's written like what Babs is usually written as.
Elijah Kelly
Fuck off, Marvelshill. It's much better than anything Ewing is writing and much better than the edgy new 52 Supergirl.
Brayden Jackson
But DCYou was great and Rebirth is garbage.
James Bell
>ewing >new 52 batgirl
can blame you for liking batgirl rebirth since you have pretty low standards
Ayden Lopez
>the straight white male protagonists It really does make sense.
Nathaniel Ramirez
I would really know but I can't, that art hurt my eyes.
Landon Baker
Rebirth Batgirl is still miles better than anything Marlel is producing. Go take your shilling elsewhere.
Ryder Flores
Not really a high bar you're setting since idw turds are also miles better than anything marvel
Benjamin Richardson
You're not the only one struggling, I'm trying to give batgirl a chance but so far at issue 10 it's not really interesting storywise and the art is mediocre
Owen Edwards
This, even with Super-man, he didn't upstage Clark Kent and take over. He's not THE Superman and they're not trying to make him it. Even his personality is different than your typical Superman
Elijah Hill
batgirl art is plain mediocre, supergirl art is "how the fuck did the artist get a job at DC " level of bad imho.
Matthew Scott
That's because, while DC has a little line about misogyny and social issues every once in a while,they never went full retard And had their characters say A BUNCH OF MISOGYNYSTIC FILTH.
Remember the whole "the lasso of truth won't stop mansplaining?"DC realised that shit didn't work and changed their ways, when marvel comics bombed at sales they just went on twitter and called everyone sexist.
DC comics are fun stories, while marvel now feels like plot excuses to have someone bitching about how Everything is sexist, even kamala who was supposed to be a cute street level hero became an insufferable mouthpiece for her writer and now let me tell you about how islam is the best religion ever.
Marvel showed no respect for their original characters, Ironheart , lady thor and hawkeye all feel the need to humilliate the original character who had their mantle, not to mention in an effort to not offend anyone, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THIS CHARACTERS is perfect and doesn't lose to anyone so they come off as boring.
DC on the other hand found a girl/tumblr market but their minority characters are not invicible and they come off as people, not mouthpieces and they don't fill the need to shove in every single political opinions the writers have, so they are infinitely better written and more enjoyable
Austin Bennett
I quit reading supergirl after h'el on earth tbph, not really my cup of tea. does it eventually get better?
Joshua Davis
Marvel needs to get their shit together
Lincoln Rodriguez
>nothing wrong with the successors all being minorities or women
There is when it's blatant pandering and I say this as a minority. I sincerely hate that people think sticking a brown or Asian person in a role previously filled by a white person suddenly makes you progressive or good. It doesn't, all it does is make you look like an idiot trying to push an agenda. And people who are apologists for it in an attempt to not look like a bigot are part of the problem as well
Josiah Reed
Red Daughter and Space Hogwarts were pretty good, but her Rebirth series is boring with shit art.
Joseph Cook
Yeah the rest of her New 52 run is great and has some amazing art to go with it. She becomes a Red Lantern (it works) and goes off to superhero alien school for a bit. Also, Maxima is gay for Supergirl. Hopefully they follow up on that.
Parker Walker
Not happening soon I'm afraid
Levi Gray
thanks i'll check out the rest of new52, and skip rebirth
Adrian Fisher
>I sincerely hate that people think sticking a brown or Asian person in a role previously filled by a white person suddenly makes you progressive or good. I sincerely think you're projecting.
Noah Howard
The problem with Marvel is that it's politics first, story second, and continuity forth. The thing that annoys me with liberals is that they think repeating the same message over and over is groundbreaking.
"Hey! Trump is terrible" YOU DON'T SAY?! It's not like every other story isn't already saying that!
Jace Watson
Sure, that's exactly the reason they whitewashed Ancient One and Maria Hill. Classic SJW move.
Mason Ward
Are you honestly implying that most mantle changes haven't been done in the name of "progress"? When most writers have outright admitted to have done so out of some need to make things "more friendly" for minorities? I know a hood chunk of Sup Forums are liberals but this ignorance is amazing...
Jace Mitchell
>It's not like every other story isn't already saying that! Cause it's not like that at all so quit your bitching.
Jaxon Brooks
>((Progress)) What's wrong with progress?
Dylan Carter
And then they wonder how he won with that approach and why the country has swung this hard to the right since Reagan...
Ayden Rivera
But most of it is done out of ignorance and is fueled by largely by entitlement
Josiah Adams
>the country has swung this hard to the right since Reagan... Actually repeated studies show that most americans are centrist, which is why most americans vote Democrat.
Elijah Taylor
>Maria Hill
She's only brown in the cartoon, and I feel like the only reason for it was so people could tell her and Quake apart because Bendis must've forgotten his own work again when he had the brilliant idea to create "SHIELD agent with a pixie cut" twice.
Cameron Moore
Can you even name 5 comics where this has actually happened?
And no, being so insecure you see Trump metaphors in every page of Secret Empire doesn't count.
Mason Johnson
>entitlement I don't think it's entitled to want to read about someone other than a straight white guy.
Sebastian Bennett
When the company/writer makes a huge deal of it in marketing or even in-story, that's exactly the case. Not so much when they don't care. Funnily enough, DC chooses the "Yeah, whatever" approach more often than not (e.g. Cass Batgirl, Connor Green Arrow, Jaime Blue Beetle, Ryan Atom, the various lanterns) .
Asher Sullivan
You know what the real difference is? How well it's done. A good writer can spin anything and make it work. Rhodey first became Iron Man because Tony was a drunk and his ongoing issue with alcohol left him a mess. It made sense for him to take over. Now you have Riri, the black female tech genius that isn't Rhodey's niece (lost in comics limbo), shoehorned in out of nowhere and now she's Ironheart... even though the comic is still called Iron Man.
I mean seriously, Lila Rhodes just lost her uncle and she's nowhere to be seen. Not there to pick up the mantle of her father and his best friend that's also her mentor.
Michael Moore
>"Studies"
Yeah, OK. Most democrat voters only show up during presidential elections and are largely concentrated in cities. By large the country is right to center, along with all that, most of the country still doesn't vote anyway. But yes, keep believing democrats are the majority, surely it'll be true some day...
Or not
Cameron Wilson
It is when straight white men are where most of the money comes from and it is when you want to usurp an already made mantle instead of making an original one. Learn what entitlement means
Aiden Bennett
Is that any worse than just conjuring a black Wally West out of thin air to test the waters, then when no one is impressed, reintroducing white Wally and making black Wally his "cousin" who also just happens to have Speedforce?
Blake Harris
That's not because of SJW but because of Bendis. >b-but he's a sjw No he's not, he's a a hack who copies whatever is popular. Marvel isn't sjw snowflake liberals. It's a company that exploits their characters of color.
Hunter Green
how dare those white men buy something they like and don't buy something they don't like those monsters
Samuel Parker
Well they didn't conjure him out of thin air, they were trying to cash in on the TV show popularity by having a Black wally but black wally doesn't make sense cause we hardly see his black family.
Brandon Taylor
>It's a company that exploits their characters of color And that's fucked
Cameron Scott
>Batgirl has some of the most ridiculous writing in the franchise Agreed. I think I will finally give Devin Grayson run a try; I want to read a more classic Batgirl, not a Batgirl for female digital natives.
Cooper Johnson
>Most democrat voters only show up during presidential elections In Congressional elections the Democrats generally receive several million more total votes, but districting has left the Repubs with a sitting majority. The Senate skews Republican because you get 2 Senators for every single state, even though there are 6 essentially empty Red States out West that combined lack the population of California.
Hunter Clark
Black Wally is a leftover from New 52 and DCYou. And it seems they are going to do something with him. I don't mind him other than the fact he has the same name. They don't have an Impulse/Kid Flash so he fits that for the time being.
It's really about the fact he has black adopted daughters and there's also those royalties to consider. And considering his favoring of black characters (he has "jokingly" admitted to having a crush on Luke Cage) and some things he said on Twitter, I'd say he is an SJW. But the real point is in showing the right way of doing a diverse character taking over a mantle compared to the wrong way.
Cooper Thompson
>largely concentrated in cities I see you guys always like to bring this up, like it somehow a negative to live on a city.
Tyler Rivera
>A good writer It pretty much comes down to this. Al Ewing has had two different books that were almost entirely minorities (one being ENTIRELY) and he made it work. For a time, Ms Marvel worked too, and had sales backed up by new readers too.
The new legacy characters CAN work, ANAD Avengers was charming enough (even if I dislike Miles and Kamala being on a team), it's just Marvel lacking the writing talent to handle them, or just not putting the proper writers on it.
Do you fuckers have to do this in every fucking thread? Holy shit.
John Price
> I'd say he is an SJW I wouldn't, him being enamored with black culture does not make a sjw.
Ryan Hernandez
Spencer's first SamCap arc, the Spider-Gwen annual, Duggan's Spider-Man/Deadpool issue, the current "deport mutants" subplot in X-Men Gold. Though DC does it too in the fringes. You had that kind of thing in Bombshells, Wacky Raceland, and currently in Scooby Apocalypse. Manapul and Hitch tried to write Trump stories in Trinity and JL and were rejected after they were solicited. Look up the congressional totals from the last election. Republicans won the popular vote.
Charles Barnes
>rampant crime >expensive living costs >shitty schools
It is
Alexander Miller
>tfw miles morales can be one of the most popular marvel characters but he's stuck with bendis and waid writing him
His comics sell well despite Bendis. It's just like how Peter is being wasted by having Slott writing him for a decade.
Kevin Young
>Do you fuckers have to do this in every fucking thread I'm tired of ignorant right wing propaganda user.
Leo Nelson
I blame TV show synergy.
Levi Reyes
Hi, Festus. How's the unemployment treatin' ya?
Mason Baker
I get why Marvel doesn't want to give Miles to someone else because he IS Bendis' creation, but yeah, Champions needs to be killed or given to another writer.
Or an editor can actually do their job and reign Mark Waid in, holy fuck. That's another big issue. What happened to Marvel editorial?
You will literally never persuade him that Trump/Republicans are bad, even as they actively work to shut down the internet, among every other shitty thing they've got going.
Brayden Powell
And here comes the strawman because the facts have hurt the snowflakes feelings. I don't even live in a country area but thanks for giving me a laugh
Bentley Rogers
>Trump and Republicans are bad
They aren't. Liberals and socialists are though
Brandon Green
>why ye callin' me a strawman? >ye SNOWFLAKE!
Luke Bailey
>all this political "debate" >everyone giving everyone else you's
I guess everyone wins.
Cooper Jones
Its hilarious how you people claim right wing propaganda when almost every media outlet is liberal. Jesus, how can you people be so blind? Should I be surprised though? Most of you thought popular vote determined who became president still
Connor Ross
>Trump >Republican
>Liberals >Socialists
See you in a year, when Trump is "betrayed" and champions against the new evil guys. How about necrophiliac communist liberals?
Brandon Gomez
Well hasn't DC been doing Social Justice for years (as in decades)?
And I don't mean this modern faux-Social Justice that all the kids are into these days, I mean proper real social justice, like dealing with actual social issues like drugs, homelessness, racism and so on.
So it kinda stands to reason that they'd be able to do it better.
Hudson Perry
See what I mean? Slash and burning environmental regulations wasn't enough. Trying to sell off swaths of public land (or no, just giving them out because House republicans revalued public land at 0 dollars) wasn't enough. Actively working to destroy the health market wasn't enough.
Not even taking away the internet is enough! You will never get through to them, even after Hiroshima shuts down Sup Forums because no more net neutrality.
Jonathan Robinson
Except DC has much more diverse titles than just what you mentioned. Harley Quinn is a bisexual abuse survivor; New Super-Man is chinese; new Green Lanterns aren't white either - see, the trick is that DC wants diverse stories because they know it would make for better stories. Story of a chinese Super-Man created to make China independent is interesting. Story of Harley Quinn in relationship with Poison Ivy is interesting. Green Arrow has always been about social issues anyway.
The trick is, DC does these stories because they know they will make for good stories, not just for some diversity brownie points - which will always eventually give diminishing returns, which is something Marvel is just learning - they made Thor female, Spider-Man and Cap black just to make them black, not to make the stories better. Also, DC is smart enough to recognize that REPLACING a beloved character will always be seen as an unpopular move, which is why they fucked up like that exactly once - with black Wally - and they have since retracted on that and made him a separate character.
Cooper Wright
You are a snowflake because instead of refuting my claim you immediately resorted to ad hominem because you had no argument. The fact the you resorted to green text and a reaction image only compounds your failure. Once again, thanks for the laugh
Kayden Flores
Got a point
Connor Bell
Dc feels more natural and integrated while Marvel shoe horns it in.
Jordan Baker
Republicans aren't trying to take away my right to bear arms, increase my taxes, create stupid quotas, let men with mental issues use women's bathrooms, or trying to fuck over my 401k with wall street sanctions. So yes, fuck all of those on the left.
Easton Russell
DO NOT RESPOND TO SOCIAL JUSTICE THREADS
Sup Forums IS BEING FLOODED WITH REFUGEES FROM R/THE_DONALD
David Baker
You retards don't even know what net neutrality does. All you do is assume that it means you can't get on fucking Sup Forums because someone with money said so
Carter Rodriguez
It is though. Your rights don't include what fiction will be created. You're not that important.
Brayden Hill
you mean that Sup Forums was over taken by tumblr a while ago
Joshua Watson
>r/thedonald boogieman
Wew lad
Easton Miller
>Republicans aren't trying to take away my right to bear arms No one is tho, that's just NRA propaganda designed to turn gun rights into an all or nothing wedge issue.
>r/the_donald was just made private >Sup Forums has an enormous amount of reddit crossposters >the alt-right is in full panic mode considering the business with Comey
It's not a bogeyman if he's actually there, shill.