>So how do you build a series when three heroes are appealing, well-formed characters with strong actors behind them, but the fourth is annoying, boring and poorly acted? One would hope that The Defenders would shy away from Danny and his petulance, but unfortunately, Iron Fist is integral to the larger plot. Every scene featuring him drags, and he is in too many to ignore, with clunkier dialogue than his fellows.
>It’s unfair to blame Iron Fist for all of The Defenders' problems. Like all of the solo series, it’s poorly paced, and takes far too long for the heroes to team up. They don’t appear together until the end of Episode 3. And even after all that lead time, they don't fit together. Jessica and Luke gel — he was introduced on her series. Daredevil and Iron Fist share mystic roots. But they lack chemistry as a group.
>It’s not just that the characters are different, it’s that their shows (well, minus Iron Fist) had strong points of view that are completely lost in The Defenders. This is most detrimental to Jessica and Luke, whose respective series thrived on their personal stories — Jessica Jones is a sexual-assault survivor and Luke Cage explored themes of race, identity and family. Now both are just two out of four generic punching superheroes.
>The Defenders will likely please devoted Marvel fans who merely want to see these four in the same room. The fight scene that finally brings them together checks all the fan-service boxes, as when Iron Fist stands behind Luke as he takes bullets. But viewers who were attracted to one or more of the Netflix series for their unique perspectives will be disappointed.
>Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and even Iron Fist deserve better. And it’s gratifying to remember that three of them will likely have better series to return to once they finish this mission. There's no shame in admitting defeat, even for superheroes.
>the backlash for whitewashing >making a white man a white man is whitewashing This will never not piss me off, And I don't even pay particular attention to Iron Fist.
Hudson Adams
Well no shit, they completely dropped the ball all things Iron Fist. They go out of their way to make all things mystical boring or nonexistent, give Danny shit fight choreography, and his actor fucking sucks. Furthermore, they can't even bother to throw a rag on Danny's head to pretend hes the Immortal Iron Fist, even worse when Matt is sporting one right next to him. Perhaps the biggest offense is that no one gives a flying fuck about The Hand.
Henry Powell
Their issue is not with the portrayal, it's the core character of Danny Rand. My question is, how often was Danny called out as a whitewashing character his show's announcement?
Nathan Miller
Considering he's only really gotten the spotlight since the Netflix show not often, and really it's not just him Dr strang read it too, IMO it's (the whitewashing) just a trash fire to feed click bait and whatever fringe bitching they want to start a " movement" on
Joshua Jenkins
She's not wrong.
Finn Jones is horrible.
Ryan Thomas
Who gives a sweet heck what critics say?
Michael Lewis
...
Matthew Price
Good thing their weakest link gets stronger when it's in a group.
Nicholas Gutierrez
Man, that's disappointing. I was hoping they'd fix Danny by Defenders. I'll be entertained because I'm a Marvel Live Action drone.
Aaron Johnson
So no one's gonna address how terrible jessica jones is? That's the only series making me question the defenders
Benjamin Brooks
>for whitewashing and cultural appropriation. Literally fucking what? Have they ever read an Iron Fist book? Besides, wouldn't it be MORE racist if they went "let's make the guy that's good at martial arts and mystic shit an Asian because that's what Asians are"?
Luis Clark
JJ, Cage, and Fist are all bad shows, but people look bad fondly on Jess and Cage because the protagonists were the best parts of them. Look at how the writer of the article says that JJ was a show about a sexual assault survivor, conveniently forgetting that 70% of the show was absolute filler shit like Nuke, the lesbian lawyer, and the terrible neighbors.
Justin Allen
We did this already
Tyler Hill
Didn't PAD get in trouble with the SJW "fans" when he pointed that out?
Zachary Garcia
No, he got in trouble for going full Sup Forums on some gypsy dude in a panel.
Sebastian Jenkins
Can someone give me that rundown on that? Anyone that's lived next to gypsies knows that they're subhumans, and they need to be called out.
Note: The gyppos who escaped and became normal citizens with Roma ancestry are alright. The gypsies need to be purged though.
Bentley Sullivan
Well, gypsies are pretty nasty.
Chase Thompson
American teenagers don't know anything about gypsies. All they hear is a guy being hateful towards an ethnic group.
Aaron Brooks
>American teenagers don't know anything You're not wrong. I swear each generation regresses.
Nathan Davis
I'm not saying I'd watch it again any time soon, but Iron Fist wasn't too bad. I actually really enjoyed the antics with the Meachums. youtu.be/Prq2FPRuiGY
Jack Martin
As someone who doesn't have a dog in this fight, the show looks pretty shitty, like a Great Value avengers.
Evan Murphy
Heh, you don't have to tell me. Sup Forums-memeing aside, gypsies are the one race that's hated, because in all their years they never tried to intergrate. They get grants, welfare, extra points, social levity, etc, etc, but they still prefer to live in shanty-towns, steal kids and sell their organs on the black market. They need to be purged, pronto.
Kayden Bell
I went from hating Ward to actually really liking him by the end of the season.
James Robinson
It is an interesting idea to Americans. An entire race of mysterious mystic people that travel the world, getting by through scams.
Jason Martin
Yeah, scams like killing poor old people, stealing the kids of tourists, producing kids by the gallon for dat wellfare check, selling them in the black market. If that's the race America chose to glorify, then they fucking suck.
Man these people are bitter as fuck. Iron Fist did great despite all these scathing reviews and became even the most binge-watched show on Netflix out of all the other Marvel shows. Season 2 getting announced at comicon must have really triggered these "reviewers" because they are once again confronted with the reality of how little influence they actually have.
Andrew Kelly
Iron Fist is a dorky guy who isn't as "perfect" but works hard and isn't bitter from hardship. Appeals.
Bentley Thomas
>Their issue is not with the portrayal, it's the core character of Danny Rand.
That's it exactly. The people who have been taking this line of attack since the show was announced have basically been saying "We don't want the character Iron Fist to star in the show Iron Fist. We want you to create an entirely original and new character to replace Iron Fist and then make him the protagonist of Iron Fist instead of Iron Fist."
Jose Williams
The closest most Americans have gotten to Gypsies is Esmeralda, so they just think Gypsies are mistreated attractive brown girls.
Cooper Hughes
What's wrong with Iron Fist?
Robert Scott
Jesus fuck, David said nothing wrong.That's just the tip of the iceberg. They literally steal kids and sell their organs. And hell, marvel is treating them far too well. Their biggest villain is a gypsy. They make Eastern European characters, portray the natives as bigoted assholes and glorify those subhumans. Marvel panders to them, and they're still not happy! What do I have that represents me? A psycho Ninja chick and a vampire? Guess I better accuse them of being racists againstGreeks (PAY DENBTS).
Bunch of privilleged fucks...
Oliver Campbell
A white man cannot be better at martial arts than any asian people. Funny thing is, if you try to refute this claim, YOU are the racist one.
Colton Moore
>backlash for whitewashing and cultural appropriation This is stupid, the real problem with the show is that it was shit.
Tyler Roberts
He's a white man.
Noah Bell
We had this exact same thread yesterday, with the same damn review...
Colton Jones
Does Hercules count for Greece?
Levi Roberts
>woman Fat and dyed hair. Calling it.
Opinion discarded
Henry Walker
>whitewashing Daniel Rand was always white tho
Jack Jones
Didn't you make this post yesterday?
Asher White
>I was hoping they'd fix Danny by Defenders. The thing is they could have completely fixed his characterization and he'd still be given negative reviews because white washing. Im so sick of him being shit on
Adrian Sanders
Actually no, first time seeing this review.
Gavin Mitchell
I believe that was me, but I also mentioned piercings, and a cartoon skull accessory/clothing.
Leo Adams
Yep
Christopher Smith
Kinda. He's a Demigod instead of a full-God, so he does have some connection to the place. but still, using that guy's logic, he's a drunken fool that nobody likes, so I have to be offended! The moterfucker comes from a line of literal subhumans, get the best Marvel Villain and two classic Avengers, has his race portrayed as persecuted good samaritans while the natives as bigoted arseholes, and he still complains! Bunch of fucks...
Wyatt Flores
Uncanny.
Carson Robinson
I think I'm losing my mind.
Julian Hall
What?
Dylan Murphy
>All this obvious wanking to Jessica Jones and Luke Cage because of "muh rape survivor" and "muh skin color"
Spotted the virtue signaling sycophant.
>Daredevil and Iron Fist share mystic roots
No they don't, retard.
Also, this
Caleb Howard
>The Defenders will likely please devoted Marvel fans who merely want to see these four in the same room. The fight scene that finally brings them together checks all the fan-service boxes, as when Iron Fist stands behind Luke as he takes bullets. But viewers who were attracted to one or more of the Netflix series for their unique perspectives will be disappointed. So, comic books fans will be satisfied and people who care about ABC's fanfics are going to be disappointed.
Nice
Cameron Anderson
They wanted him to be replaced by an Asian actor because it's cultural appropriation for whites to be really good at martial artists or something.
Camden Jones
Martial arts belong to rice blood slanty eyed gooks!
Jonathan Fisher
I see you're promoting this shit again.
Austin Lopez
This thread, with the exact same link, was posted sometime yesterday, too. Not sure if the poster is the same and they're trying to get replies or if it's someone else, but this is a fairly identical thread to the last one either way.
Josiah Davis
Well, that's because reviewers like this have the exact same "criticisms"
Jaxon Turner
How about a whole Greek Pantheon? Including gods, demigods, monsters? Oh, and agreed on gypos as someone who worked retail next to a nest of those things.
Kevin Allen
Eh, the Pantheon is what are the Asgardians to Scandinavians. They don't really represent any nationallity. They could'vemade the Eternals into some sort of Ancient Greek super-heroes who got experimented on by the Celestials, and became kinda like Earth-Bound Inhumans, but they missed that oportunity.
It's just irritating hearing gyppos talk when they have great represantation. Blacks the same. Asians the same. They have brainy characters, cool characters, everything. The restof the "white" world hasnothing besides Americans and HYDRA, with a few D-listers thrown in.
And gypsies areliterally subhuman. I don't use that word, but intheir case it applies.
Easton Gonzalez
Look at them, telling a man he can't do something because of the color of his skin.
Oliver Rogers
But a lot of races do martial arts nowadays. It's not exclusive. Why do they hate diversity when it doesn't fit with their agenda?
Angel Scott
If you don't see how Asian people are only ones who can be martial artists, then I am sincerely sorry for your racist bigoted ass. Kill yourself.
Josiah Robinson
>Why do they hate diversity when it doesn't fit with their agenda?
It stops being about diversity when the whole show is about how this white guy is better then every single Asian person at martial arts.
Jaxon Gomez
That's what getting good at something means.
What kind of logic is that? Are you saying like white guy can't be at the top of the class at math if same class has Asian kid?
Nolan Perez
Funny thing is, if they had done that, sjws would probably still go after them for propagating a racial stereotype. There is no pleasing these people, so you might just as well ignore the whining.
Adrian Ortiz
But there are some non-asians who are better than asians at martial arts. Asians aren't especially predisposed to fighting.
Landon Brooks
I don't care what race he is - I just wish that they had gotten an experienced martial artist who can also act for the role instead of a guy who can sort of act but who can't really fight very convincingly.
Ian Clark
They wanted him to he Hispanic if I remember correctly.
Hudson Peterson
>What kind of logic is that? Are you saying like white guy can't be at the top of the class at math if same class has Asian kid?
I hate these arguments because they always become you people making up hypothetical situations to make yourself win and ignore the actual media being discussed.
Iron Fist was not a hypothetical TV show where things might have happened. It was a show about a white guy being better then every single Asian person at martial arts and spitting Zen koans like a Berkley hippie.
It's not just "White guy knows martial arts" because whatever. The shows pulls explicitly from Asian mythology and Asian imagery while having the white guy being better then everyone else.
It's no better then Steven Seagal pretending to be part Native American while writing his Natives as ridiculous stereotypes.
David Barnes
So, basically what you are saying, you want Scott Buck out. Everyone does, but at least don't misdirect your hate on Finn.
Jaxson Diaz
Honestly, i wouldn't have minded him being asian, as long as i would've gooten god tier martial art scenes and the whole "brat from wealthy family undergoes incredible hardship" angle would've been maintained. Hell, i've read and enjoyed comics where Gambit was the son of Namor and Sue Storm. However this line of purely racial based critisism is something i find idiotic and troublesome.
Landon Watson
It's a show written by white people (or more accurately Jews.) Nobody gives a shit.
You people would pop a vital artery if you knew how many shows in China or Japan take traditionally "white" roles (vampires, chopper bikers, medieval knights, the Beatles) and make them asian because that's the primary audience. Asian people aren't going to watch this stupid crap, whites are.
Samuel Cox
Yeah, I don't see how it's comparable to Steven Seagal at all. What's so fucking racist about getting good at martial arts?
David Robinson
Have you ever complained about the reverse when it happens in anime do you complain to japanese about how they have half japanese be the best at everything? Or when china or india do it? This bitching is pointless every nationality does it.
Jordan Smith
>members of Odin's pantheon, all of whom are white as snow, are cast with various minorities >"Fuck off Sup Forums just deal with it :)"
>Iron Fist, a character who has always been a white guy's martial arts fantasy, is played by a white guy >"CULTURAL APPROPRIATION"
Parker Price
Oh yeah, I'm just trying to let that one user know that he's not insane, at least, about this anyway. As soon as they mentioned the supposed whitewashing of Iron Fist, the review should have been chucked out the window.
Alexander Hernandez
I'm confused. Is Netflix's Iron Fist actually bad, or is it just crazy liberals complaining about a white actor?
Lucas Cruz
Maybe he could play a different character in the series, but he's not really right for Danny Rand.
Jayden Miller
>whitewashing a white character >learning martial arts is cultural appropriation
Jack Morris
Would all of the screeching reviewers still be mad if Marvel diversified Iron Fist, but instead of turning him asian turned him into Tyrone Fist?
John Murphy
Why do people pretend only Asians have Martial Arts? What about Greco-Roman Wrestling? Pankration, Byzantine Hoplomachia,Viking Swordsmanship and Gladiatorial Combat don't count?
Logan Foster
It's not as terrible as everyone makes it out to be, but the pacing is weird. It has a very slow buildup and then the last episodes feel very rushed.
Benjamin Campbell
They were asking for a Hispanic actor at one point.
Isaac Diaz
Putting all of the political posturing aside, it's a legitimately bad show. Despite ostensibly being about magic kung-fu, a good 70% of the show is this bizarre boardroom corporate drama, and when we finally DO see some martial arts, it's some of the worst choreographed stuff in Marvel's TV lineup (and considering the fight choreography in Jessica Jones, that's saying something).
It feels like the show was written by someone who fundamentally misunderstood what people find entertaining about the character.
Doesn't help that Finn Jones is a curly-headed fuck, either.
Oliver Long
I'm cuban and I think that's fucking retarded. This cunts need to fuck off.
Xavier Ramirez
>a good 70% of the show is this bizarre boardroom corporate drama
There's a plot about Danny Rand trying to save his family's company that takes entirely too much time. I enjoyed the stuff with Colleen Wing way more than I enjoyed the corporate takeover plot.
Asher Ward
I really don't get what's wrong with casting white blond male as white blond male. Care to provide insight from tumblr?
Ryan Lee
he looks like shit for one, I mean he could have done a basic bodyweight routine for the role
Bentley Williams
It's marginally better than Luke Cage. It has better action sequences than JJ and LC, but nothing that'd stand against Daredevil.
> a good 70% of the show is this bizarre boardroom corporate drama I really don't get how that's a criticism, when Ward is overwhelmingly well-received character.
Isaac Edwards
He had two weeks before they started shooting. Iron Fist was rushed the fuck out and all its problems can be traced back to Scott "let's rehearse fight scenes only once" Buck.
Blind hate on Finn Jones is your inner cuck that you need to subdue.
It's not like Finn Jones came in and started screaming he won't be working out and started demanding this kung fu oriented hero have mediocre fight scenes. That was Scott Buck.
Ian Gray
Game of thrones actor.
Jayden Jenkins
>Blind hate on Finn Jones is your inner cuck that you need to subdue.
u absolute wot m8
Hunter Long
I agree that Ward was a pleasant surprise, but even if I enjoy him, the fact that he's the breakout character is troubling, because this is not The Ward Meachum Show, it's supposed to be Iron Fist. When the best character in your mystical kung-fu show has absolutely nothing to do with mystical kung-fu, it's probably a sign that your show has issues that need addressing.
William Wood
It's fine to cast a blond haired white guy for the role, but Danny is supposed to be one of the greatest martial artists in the Marvel universe. It would have been better if they hired an actor with a more extensive martial arts background or at least someone who has a lot of experience following choreographed movements. He should really shine in the fight scenes and this actor doesn't.
Hunter Rodriguez
Oh come one, that blind hate on Finn Jones is absolutely Tumblr propaganda who want to yellow-wash Iron Fist. They scream so loud about how bad everything is that it works, a person who is objective wouldn't be saying >Maybe he could play a different character in the series, but he's not really right for Danny Rand. for absolutely no reason.
Justin Hernandez
They had 15 minutes to rehearse fight before shooting them. No joke. You can't make anyone look good with that.
Also
> “When I first moved over to New York, before I started actually filming, I had three weeks of very intense martial arts and weight training preparation. But then unfortunately once the show started, the filming schedule was just so tight – I was working 14 hours every day, six days a week, days into nights, nights into days – and actually my schedule didn’t allow me to continue the training as much as I really hoped.”
Liam Scott
I didn't finish it, but I watched a few episodes and the choreography was laughably horrible. What were they thinking?
Colton Rodriguez
he was a terrible choice for Danny, get someone who is in shape and has choreography experience, ESPECIALLY if you're short on time, explain the logic of casting someone who cant hit the ground running.