Is he right?

Is he right?

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twitter.com/realhartman/status/938216977398603776
youtube.com/watch?v=b5IEyS_JKKQ
youtube.com/watch?v=UMnT4tp-cMk
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The question isn't whether he's right. The question is whether he's ever been wrong.

yes. yes he unironically is /ourguy/.

Does a man cum on his Corn Flakes and not eat them?

Does a baby shit in the womb?

how can one man be so based?

Yes t b h

oh shit

Post tweet OP.
twitter.com/realhartman/status/938216977398603776

Also Butch should know why. He's been in the industry for over twenty fucking years, he of all people should have dealt with execs and compromised himself enough to know why.

If he is referring to the "lore" aspect, I disagree. I think it's cool when a story has a mysterious history behind it.

based Butch

>why is everyone trying to copy adventure time?
youtube.com/watch?v=b5IEyS_JKKQ

Absolutely Based

How many shows have tried to be like Ben ten? Generator rex

>somebody in the industry finally calling everyone out on copying AT

FUCKING GODDAMN FINALLY

Generator rex are from the same creators, so no one tried to copy them.

The ones that wanted the lorefag audience. That audience, of course, never supported those shows enough to survive.

youtube.com/watch?v=UMnT4tp-cMk

Does it count when it's the same people making it?

This, fuck OK KO, Steven Universe and Star vs

fucking shitty shows.

>Ben 10 and Generator Rex
>lorefags
What

I'm gonna guess Hartman just had a show rejected on the grounds of it not being enough like AT to spur this tweet 7 years after AT's been around.

Doesn't the fact that it's been 7 years and there are still AT lookalikes just further his point

What are some current good randomtard shows?Family guy?Teen Titans go?

Bitch please.

they got lore, except maybe the current one(the shittiest one yet)

they're not good but they make money, which is what matters
not to us, but to the people making them

Family guy? I heard the recent season is. TTG? On occasion. The reason they dominate though is because they're cheap to make and their fandoms actually give it the attention it needs to flourish (in TTG's case they have neckbeards that give it attention too)

Next time don't be such a bum and you'll see more shows like Ben 10.

There's no show airing right now that actually looks like AT. Unless you count noodle arms, in which case, people have been ripping off AT since the 20's.

And there are still only maybe three shows airing right now that take their "deep lore" seriously. The rest are all comedic episodic shows. Unless you're trying to tell me:

>Loud House
>Amazing World of Gumball
>We Bare Bears
>Pickle & Peanut
>Future-Worm
>Teen Titans Go
>Bunnicula
>Justice League Action
>Ducktales
>Upcoming shows like Apple & Onion, Craig of the Creek, and Big City Greens
>Plus more!

Are all Adventure Time rip-offs. Now I will admit a lot of pilots that are made available online definitely reek of AT mimicry, but even then, that's cherry-picking because there are A LOT of pilots that are never released that could be totally original, we just don't see it. But even then, it doesn't matter if a ton of pilots rip off AT because those are pilots, not greenlit shows.

And if the AT craze was really as popular as people make it out to be, they WOULD be greenlit. But they aren't, stuff like Apple & Onion is, which is closer to Gumball meets Regular Show than AT.

Butch is a legitimate /ourguy/ even though his shows are fairly mediocre. I don't get it.

>SU has a wimpy protag surrounded by lesbian golems that's filled with filler episodes and episodes based around "muh feelings"

>OK KO has a a wimpy protag who actually tries fighting (yet mostly fails) while having quirky misadventures in a world based around superhero and vidya references

>Star Vs is about a horny bug slut that migrated to earth who's usually a nuisance to everyone around her when she's not cleaning up her own messes

How are any of those like AT? Genuinely curious, don't bully me or I'll tell my mom.

>There's no show airing right now that actually looks like AT
>Steven Universe
>Ok Ko
>Star vs
All those shows follow AT formula, is a story about a kid trying to turn into the generic iconic story hero in a non serious tone with a lot of slice off life to make the shit last forever. They don't posses an unique theme and shitft from silly to super serious all the fucking time.

Whether he's right or not is besides the point. He's a guy with a zombie cartoon desperately trying to cling to relevance by any means necessary. He's playing you like a fiddle.

Ah, I see you ignored most of my post for the sentence that triggered you, cause if you read it, you would have see:
>And there are still only maybe three shows airing right now
And then proceeded to list those three shows. And then completely ignored my giant list of more than triple the amount of shows that DON'T follow that formula.

>I think it's cool when a story has a mysterious history behind it.
Lorefaggotry is the cartoon equivalent of jump scares in horror flicks. Its incredibly easy to sprinkle in suggestions of world history in an 11 minute cartoon. But the episode format betrays itself. Most if the time, loreshit is never explored or even revisited within the show proper. It's just fluff.

Name a single example of a show actually doing lorefaggotry well

The networks are more aware than you think. This is from 2015, from an executive of all people.
youtube.com/watch?v=PLbx2dGn1mE
30:30.

No you said" And there are still only maybe three shows airing right now that take their "deep lore" seriously."

That's not about lore, is about the formula of AT, there is/was many shows with lore that are nothing like AT

You took your own comment out of context

I don't see how those three shows are copies of Adventure Time. They seem more interested in copying anime than AT.

>Adventure Time is awesome

name a better cartoon currently on TV

Nothing wrong with fluff. Just gives dedicated fans cool easter eggs to look out for.

You mean western cartoons right? Spetacular spiderman,Men in Black,Ben 10, Adventure time,Static Shock,Jackie Chan,American Dragon etc

Gravity falls, but then it was the main point nad not some side off bullshit like it normally is

None, since they're equally shitty. You have to be a literal manchild to enjoy fucking Adventure Time.

Does Star Wars count?

>who's usually a nuisance to everyone around her when she's not cleaning up her own messes
This hasn't been true since the middle of season 1. Star is canonically incredibly popular and well-liked. She's pretty much acclimated to all of Earth culture. She even speaks Spanish. Also most of her problems and predicaments are started by those around her.

Because my own comment can be changed to whatever you think is AT defining and it would still be the same shows I was describing. I picked what defined AT as being instilling lore in shows that have become a "trend" for some people. To me, adventure story mixed with slice of life is just as much of a common staple of kids cartoons as kid going to school is. That is and has never been unique to AT, and it's also not what people think of when they consider "It's Adventure Time inspired".

But regardless of that, you still managed to describe the exact three shows I was speaking of when I think of something that has similar tone and jokes to AT, so that goes to show you how actually few "AT rip offs" there are since you narrowed it down to the exact ones.

b-b-but my crying lesbian spacerock cartoon! it has shitty OC donut steels, ukelele songs, and all the staff go out to make their own slice-of-life insert cartoons with noodle arms and spaz humour!

You're right. Lore doesnt add too much to the substance of the show but if you're a fan it gives you more material to explore.

Invader ZIM.

>it gives you more material to explore.
It gives you vague shit to hypothesize over and wait until eternity to never be resolved.

Name ONE single time a plot-heavy cartoon resolved all of its "lore" in a satisfying way.

You comment makes no sense, there is several dozens of good cartoons with lore, Spetacular spiderman and Justice League are great examples.

Random shows are doomed by failure since they get old after 2 seasons and is simply not fresh anymore, all jokes were already used, you can't make any joke that is not overused at this point, simpsons and family guy already made all possible ideas.

It's only CN that is having this problem and the real reason is because they're playing favoritism with AT alumni where most of the crew's industry experience comes from only working on Adventure Time, since for a lot of the crew, it was their first show. Ergo, it's all they fucking know.

Pic very much related. Julia Pott pretty much said she learned how to write stories thanks to AT, which is about as bad as admitting to learning how to draw anime from a "How To" book.

That pilot was so fucking bad. I really hope they changed a lot when going into production.

Why does Butch have so many defenders here? He ran Fairly OddParents into the ground and kept introducing new characters only to throw them away when nobody liked them. The dog. The baby, The girl. Well, Sup Forums wanted to fuck the girl, so she got a pass.

The biggest sin is what he did to Cosmo's voice. God, I loved his original voice.

>Name ONE single time a plot-heavy cartoon resolved all of its "lore" in a satisfying way.
Jackie Chan Adventures or maybe Xiaolin Showdown.

People will argue that XS should've kept going, but ending with Rai who started off as the worst member becoming the leader was a nice send-off.

>Adventure Time
>Good lore

he won't name names though

>I really hope they changed a lot when going into production.
It was created by a woman so don't keep your hopes up.

Because Hartman is a busy man and probably contributes all of 10 hours a week total to Fairly Oddparents. Much like Spongebob, Family Guy, Adventure Time, and SImpsons, there are many other people in charge making these bad decisions who don't need the approval of the creator if they are given full control by the network to coincide with a showrunner's schedule. Some of them just want to stop working on a show that's gone on for over a decade or don't have time but still want residuals from it.

Do you think Hartman makes every single creative decision in FoP and writes all the scripts? You think he has the power to cancel a show? He might've been forced to add the shit dog and baby but we'll never know because he would NEVER openly admit to hating it on social media like CH Greenblatt. He would just do the PR thing of saying how proud and excited he is and etc.

Was Butch even in charge anymore by the time that shit happened or is it a Family Guy situation?

He's in a very good standing with Nick considering how often they quote him on their social media. Why jeopardize that by being a belligerent asshole to people a generation younger than you?

Why do people just tag random words like this
Who just searches ALL of twitter for the tag "originality"?

Hipsters. Twitter is a vile place.

I think this is all just SJW backlash since Butch is probably the last openly conservative creator in the mainstream industry. Nobody is going to give Doug TenNapel a new show anytime soon. Sup Forums defends him because of that.

Bob Boyle and Steve Marmel were the powers behind Butch's throne. Without them, he's a talentless hack.

Half the time, Twitter tags are meant to simply be one-word summaries of their point. An

>"Some guy asked me out at the mall today. I just wanted to buy some shoes #canyounot"

i mean, being an asshole to the younger generation is exactly what he's doing here. he's just being a wishy washy pussy about it. he's throwing shade at artists he considers unoriginal, but he won't say who? bitch move.

Welcome to the Wayne

It's the Twitter equivalent of greentexting.
>muh-muh-muh
>he says as he posts
>this is what he actually believes

Etc.

You mean kids in a wacky world where anything can happen?

That would be like calling someone specifically out for bean mouth and head. There is no "one person" you can point all the blame to.

Only Sugar and Pott worked on AT and now have their own shows. I guess you could count Ian JQ since he worked on it a bit too back in the day, but I don't think AT alumni beside them have made shows of their own.

>actually draws a lot and tweets art & animation tips constantly
>"haha w-what a loser lol t-trying to stay r-relevant much??"
Fuck you for insulting the chad Hartman.

>Hartman of all people trying to talk shit about originality

OI IM LAFFIN NOW

Also, let's not forget that Butch tried to claim that the ghosts in Danny Phantom weren't actually the ghosts of dead people. He didn't want them to be actual ghosts.

>The question is whether he's ever been wrong.
Is it now

Gargoyles

>cartoon currently on TV
>AT
Um....

> guess you could count Ian JQ
He worked on and off the show for a good three years, I would definitely count him. As well as Patrick McHale who got a short series.

That would make four productions made by AT alumni. No other cartoon on CN currently rivals that. The last show to have such a high number of people working on one show getting their own product was Flapjack.

Totally forgot about Garden Wall, good point.

The anime similarities are superficial at best. These are all students of Ward’s work and are borderline incestuous in how they share writers and storyboarders. The basic idea of “childhood coming of age” in “zany quirky magic random fantasyland” but with “overarching darker themes” and “a tantylizing blend of fantasy and reality” have basically set the tone for animation in the 2010s.

>You kids and your Adventures Times and japanime and super Avengers.
Oh Butch

I think what Butch is trying to call out are the similar ways new shows have been produced.

Deepest Lore is... by all means, a meme that truly sparked with AT's genesis as a series. Many shows have tried over the years to be deep, complex, and amazing... only to fall at the side because it wasn't hip to get invested. Sadly, only AT has managed to bring into the limelight this beautiful thing... only for it to be beaten to death. Modern "lore" is just a crutch to support shows, and often handled with the delicate touch and care of a steel hammer slamming down.
1/2

im a huge lore whore but lore for the sake of lore gets boring real fast. show dont tell is VITAL when it comes to lore.

I want to pitch a show about a Mexican little girl (tomboy) that has magic adventures with her best friend who is a white boy, no romance, no sjw bullshit. labels are meaningless, MC being Mexican (she looks white anyways) only has a bearing to the lorefaggotry cause she’s descended from a Mexican demigod and shit.
Could this work?

why do you come to these threads?

How can one guy be so based yet so shit at making cartoons?

AT also managed to bring the cancerous tumor known as shipping to mainline audiences, utilizing it to drag in members who would otherwise watch literally anything else. Sadly, AT can't handle ships for shit, and the quality of writing went into a steep nosedive. Recent newcomers like Gravity Falls and Star Vs, also bring shipping and weak writing into their content. It's fairly apparent that lore and shipping are intertwined on the shitsicle known as cartoons.

One must also account for the serious case of samefaggotry in these shows art.
The artstyle suffer from a very apparent lack of diversity, often utilizing very similar artstyles. Like years of inbreeding, the quality has liquidated until you only have five types of faces and noodle limbs.

Finally we must confront how each of these new shows are comedies along with dramas. AT brought up drama to spring bits of emotion into it's humorous depiction of a boys adventure. Literally all toons post-hence, have also used drama but with worse effect within their comedies. Overall, AT-Clones are the SOL of cartoons and act as a cancer that keeps growing.

What's the conflict? Is it action adventure, slice of life, comedy, ect?

This.
It works far better for vidya where you can put it in optional books.

...

I find that really hard to believe, I still hear and see new jokes every day. Besides jokes can vary a lot depending of the characters, tone and setting.

Comedy and action, think of dark humored shit like Zim and mystery/adventure like Gravity Falls.
No Sucrose wangst, no lesbians, no romance nor shipping pandering (that shit is cancer), just good ol’ fun for general audiences and Mexican mythology, cause that shit is awesome and interesting to explore.
The main bad guy is a lesser god of chaos that is trying to fuck up the world and it’s up to the two meddling main kids to stop him, along with other monsters of the week and lesser arc villains.

>stereotype cartoon
disney would, just look at big city greens.

What other show besides AT actually has noodle limbs?

I mean, are white Mexicans a stereotype? I never see those in American media, let alone in children’s cartoons.

Sounds bland as shit with the exception of Mexican mythology.
I’d love Mexican mythology in a more exciting context.

what do you suggest for my idea to not suck?

You have a main character who isn’t white yet isn’t stereotypical enough.
People will accuse you of SJW shit while also accusing your MC of being too white.

Make it unique. Make it different from other shows airing. As it stands, people would immediately write your off show as yet another SoL show with muh lore.

For one thing, don’t use kid protagonists. The only show I can think of that uses adult protags is Mighty Magiswords; the oldest protags are Steven, Morty and Star.

At the very least, age your characters up to 17-18. It’s a relative compromise between kid and adult protags and there’s plenty of writing opportunities there.

What does SoL mean?

I mean have you looked at HYW or any thread about creating stuff? The majority of Anons are mediocre at best when it comes to creating. Critics are often times the most mediocre of creators often times.