Watched the new movie and started to think about the SW universe , both films and Expanded Universe, in any point...

Watched the new movie and started to think about the SW universe , both films and Expanded Universe, in any point, anyone studied history and realzied that the majority of bullshit that was done was because of some Force Sensitive. Has any character tried to end the life of all force users/sensitives? Not an easy task i agree, but with the enough effort it would be possible. If somehow it got acomplished, what would be the general consequences?

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Kreia thread in disguise

>What is the plot of KOTOR 2

KOTOR 1 even goes into it slightly, where Carth remarks how useless he feels next to all these Jedi and Sith.

Hell, it's implied that the Jedi committed genocide on the sith species just because of their natural affinity to the dark side.

The KOTOR comics also explore that theme.

Oh hey, I see you're spamming this thread on multiple boards

For most of SW stories (pre Disney) force people were not really in large numbers OR in charge; they were just powerful assets of the real leaders.

Is this the greatest moment in the entire SW franchise?
youtube.com/watch?v=3EtByaOxiwE

Why not just make a bioweapon that kills midochlorians?

In the Darth BANE novel which takes place during the war between the Old Republic and the Sith Empire the leader of the Sith gets all his followers together to create something called the "Thought Bomb" that will kill all Force sensitivities on the planet and drag them into Force Hell so I guess that counts as an attempt to kill the majority of Force users

Honestly, at this point the only thing that worries me about the direction they're going with Star Wars (especially with some of the stuff that's happened in Rebels) is trying to push some absurd "Kreia was right" thing in regards to the Force.

Forget Rey, think about what Ezra has been able to accomplish. What the Bendu was trying to do. What the Force has been doing all this time. Wouldn't the most obvious next threat be one of a character trying to rid the galaxy of the Force once and for all?

are midcloirans mentioned any other time other than PM?

TLJ made it worse.

>The force is just balancing itself!
>Balance is done by creating individuals of great power and evil and having them kill billions
>Balance that by making one powerful good person and just making them beat that person, then requiring the need for another person of GREAT EVIL AND POWER FOR MORE BALANCE!

It made the force into a retard.

Because midichlorians aren't the force, they're a glorified litmus test.

You may as well start shooting salmon to try and get rid of rivers.

>Sith equivalent is literally a 5 minute speech on why you're a retard

KOTOR 2 was such a poor game design wise, but goddamn the dialogue cracked me up sometimes.

>The Force Awakens
>The Last Jedi
>To End it All

Seriously, someone needs to listen to this woman.
youtube.com/watch?v=M1aDMnh1ksE

Kreia WAS right, and the movies vindicate her ideas clear as day. It's time for the Jedi to end. For the Sith to die for good. The Force itself must be destroyed for the Galaxy to be free.

Sure thing Satan

Nothing in Star Wars with the exception of Kyle Katarn comes close to Kinotor2

Satan raises a good point. We should have listened.

>the Jedi + the Sith = all force users in the universe

Star Wars fans really are fucking dumb. The Last Jedi even spelled it out for you all but you still don't get it.

>SW last film fully understand and improve the rest of the cannon

If you have a connection to the Force you're being manipulated

The Force is balancing itself through Rey after a dark sider yet again fucked up the balance, because selfish, greedy fucks when given special powers always fuck things up for everyone.
The 'dark side' isn't the Force, its a person's worst and darkest impulses reflected in the Force. The Force isn't the problem, undisciplined, selfish and exploitative assholes are.

I think Palpatine uses the word when he's telling Anakin about Darth Plagueis?

Literally everyone in the universe has a connection to the Force, its just some have a deeper connection than others.

I never thought there was such a thing as 'too stupid for Star Wars' but the backlash to the Last Jedi is proving me wrong.

In what way are non-dark siders being mentally influenced?

It's been proven time after time that there's no way to eliminate those assholes before they appear, so it's better to eliminate the source.

Cut the cancer off at a tumor and it'll just grow back.

If the Dark Side isnt the force, how does there is The Dark Side of it and how the Siths can use the Force, couldnt it just justo stop working for them if it got a moral base?

>misses the point
Dummy

Echoes and prophecy. There are no coincidences in Star Wars

>so it's better to eliminate the source.
The source in this case is literally the underpinning fabric of reality, you fucking retard.

>The Force isn't the problem, undisciplined, selfish and exploitative assholes are.
The Force IS the problem. The Force CREATES those assholes, imbues them with the power and capability to use those darkest aspects to their fullest. The Force tries to fix it like a drunken soccer mom taking you to Dairy Queen after being 3 hours late picking you up from practice 3 weeks in a row. The Force is an abusive, uncaring parent to not just the Jedi, Sith, of even those strong in the Force, but to ALL in the galaxy.

KREIA DID NOTHING WRONG.

That all sounds incredibly retarded.

Wrong. Exile lived without the force, so it's not essential. Luke in TLJ also cut himself off.

This is the first time i've used the word kino but that would be fucking KINO.

The backlash to TLJ isn't because people don't understand the lore the backlash is because of all the pointless filler scenes, plot holes, character assassination, dropping of key plot points, and the film being both a rehash of Empire and a deconstruction of the Star Wars lore

The Force is energy, not a sentient god bestowing magic gifts.

Again, too stupid for Star Wars

TLJ was shit but if they had the balls to do that and go full Kreia I'd give it another chance.

>The Force CREATES those assholes

All power has the potential to corrupt. You can't just try to get rid of anything that makes one person stronger or more influential than another person. That's communism.

>If I call them stupid they'll surely agree with me!

one last (you) for you

Does power corrupt or just give you a way to do things that you couldnt do before?

>The Force
>not sentient

There's enough evidence to make the case that the Dark Side at the very least does have a will of its own.

Was there a comic that showed a young Kreia?

Kreia proved that a person could be strong without the Force through the Exile.

Having a way to do things you couldn't do before gives you reason to consider thoughts you wouldn't have had before.

It's all a trap set by the Big Guy Bane to get the Sith Empire to suicide bomb themselves so he can rebuild the Sith in his own image according to the "Rule of Two"

The Force plays dumb, but it is more than just sentient, it's sapient and aware of what it's doing. That is why it tries to achieve "balance." It does so behind the scenes, but it's clearly manipulating an entire galaxy's worth of lives to achieve its own state of balance. It goes into some fucking Tzeench-level trickery to get all the pieces in place.

The Force must end.

We know from the real fucking world that people can be strong without the Force and use all forms of personal power, physical, social, economic, it doesn't matter what kind so long as an unequal power dynamic exists, to be assholes to other people.

and how is that corruption, if someone that usualy would do shitty things gained a power to cure cancer ( or any other power just puting and example) and starting helping people, woudl it be a corruption of his original state of mind? because now he can consider thoughts that he wouldnt have had before?

The difference is we don't have something that bends all life in the galaxy to its will in the real world.

I'm someone who isn't a big SW fan and only seen 1-7 and the the two Clone Wars cartoons.

What exactly is "The Dark Side" of the Force anyway? Is it literally just the basic Force except to define anyone who uses the Force to do specifically bad things? Is there a Neutral Force that defines people who don't particular use the Force to help people but don't really use it for evil either?

If too many people use the force for good does the Force decides to birth some assholes that'll misuse it to balance things out, or is the force game-plan just old fashioned purity?

>Tzeench-level trickery
...

The Force is the Warp.

It's either changing into it slowly, or it's already past the point of no return.

Your example presumes a person for whom evil is already his natural state of mind before the introduction of power.

MOST people in the world, however, start at neutral, not good or evil. The introduction of any form of power can cause neutral people to choose to act altruistically, or it can cause them to act selfishly, or they can still choose not to act at all (though the argument could be made that that's also selfishness, i.e. Spider-Man)

That's the point. Saying "power corrupts" doesn't mean that's the ONLY thing it does, it just says that that's something that CAN happen, so if you want to eliminate ANY force in the world that can give people a reason to be assholes, you have to eliminate EVERY force in the world that makes individuals unequal in power.

the base of the thread that OP stablished is if someone decided to kill niggas that can choke people with their minds, read said minds and shot eletric shocks from their hands

>Neutral Force
This shit, yo. This is the shit.
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi

And yet we still have assholes.

Those assholes would just use something else instead of the Force as a means to be an asshole. For example, Palpatine's biggest stick wasn't mind powers, it was the Death Star, a physical weapon of mass destruction that people built.

So what good would getting rid of the Force do?

And my answer to that is it would be a meaningless gesture in the end.

Destroy all the guns in the world, people would just stab each other more often.

> guns and knifes are equal to fucking psychic powers

Free will and eliminating the jedi vs sith conflicts that never end.

After that any conflicts will be by choice not from the Force's manipulations

Philosophically speaking, they are.

>Free will

Will always be subjected to outside influences like other people or cause and effect anyway. There are philosophers who debate there's no such thing as true free will for that reason.

>the jedi vs sith conflicts that never end

People will always find a reason to form groups and fight each other. What makes the Jedi and Sith so much more dangerous than anyone else in a world that has space stations that can blow up planets?

What you're thinking of is "Grey Jedi" an EU/Fandom term for people who see the Force as neutral and the Good/Evil rhetoric as nonsense. In terms of the Canon you've seen the Force is some vaguely defined energy field/Asian mystic crap that connects all life and allows certain individuals who have obtained enlightenment to manipulate the physical and spiritual world. The Dark Side of the Force is ultimately people who use the Force to intentionally harm others and expert their authority over the world rather than excepting themselves as a part of the world.

At the end of the day the Force is a plot device to justify superpowers and special effects and any debate about it is meaningless because the writers didn't think about it beyond good guys/bad guys/ and superpowers

The only people with planet destroying space ships are Sith tho

>
because the Jedi dint genocie an entire race due to diferent opnions

So we can agree that jedi and sith both cause widespread destruction?

There are only two Sith in the Empire or First Order. That's a LOT of assholes who are perfectly happy to go along with the planet-destroying spaceship plans and have nothing to do with the Force.

The Force doesn't make people assholes. Assholery finds a way.

PEOPLE cause widespread destruction.

Being a Jedi or a Sith is just one of many possible excuses. The Force is just one of many possible means.

The Force isn't a means, it's a participant.

The Last Jedi showed that the Force doesn't care about bloodlines and will always raise up new Force sensitives as needed. The Force, ah, finds a way.

>but with the enough effort it would be possible.
Literally every living being is capable of using the force to various degrees.

Oh man, nobody has ever been pushed to do something evil by a co-conspirator before. If we got rid of the Force, there would be only peace because conflict isn't in human nature at all!

in the Star Wars universe you can't 'get rid' of the force, as its the sum total of all living (and seemingly even non living) things.

it IS those things, all of them, its not a single boogeyman entity god-being making choices.

>6 films so far after the OT
>Not a single Grey Jedi character in any of them

But you can cut people off from it.

Conflict will arise on its own. That doesn't change the fact that the Force is no innocent party to this. It is driving conflict, manipulating it to its own end. The Force makes things worse, all for the sake of balance.

It's time for the Force to end.

>Qui-gon

>Rey is the last Jedi.

LAAAME.

Also, the fact that we see weaponized lightspeed and force powera across lightyears of disrance ruins the setting for me. It raises way to many questions.

How is Qui-gon a Grey Jedi?

>The Force makes things worse

That presumes there's a better and a worse.

It's all the same, man. No matter what you do, people are gonna fight over petty bullshit. There are always variables like "how many people" and "what the petty bullshit" is...but that's all they are. Variables. The outcome is an infinite loop of human behavior.

>and force powera across lightyears of disrance

Was already a thing in the OT. It was just only used for brief telepathic conversations before.

There's substantial evidence that the force drives events a certain way though.

Like how the bot Anakin built ends up in the hands of his son in the backwater of the galaxy.

But what does it matter? What's the point of trying to eliminate a cause of conflict when you will never run out of OTHER causes of conflict?

What's your endgame? How can you even have one? You're just spitting into the wind.

He

>disobeyed the council
>was pretty much rogue
>lied and cheated to get his way in ways that actually impacted people's lives.
>was a good enough Jedi to get force ghost immortality, but failed his training to it comes with conditions.

Qui-gon was a grey Jedi. Plus I forgot Ahsoka, so that's another grey Jedi.

A "Gray Jedi" isn't the same thing as "a regular Jedi who fundamentally believes in the Jedi philosophy but is willing to break the rules."

It's not about eliminating conflict, it's about eliminating conflict you have no choice in. Without the Force, a "coincidence" like C3-P0 ending up with Luke might not exist. Prophecies wouldn't exist.

Get where I'm coming from?

They turned brief character emotional responses (basically instinct that's something right or wrong) into Skype chat. Which is lame. We'll never get an explanation on why Snoke was abke to do that either, so it's just going to be a black mark forever.

>Get where I'm coming from?

No because I don't understand why you think you have a choice in any other conflict.

How do you feel about The Force Unleashed or EU feats?

Sorry user

A grey Jedi is someone who falls in between light and dark, and is also a Jedi. The only other canon grey character is The Bendu, but he isn't a Jedi, just a force wielder.

This thread is sounding pretty heretic.

starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Potentium

Light side and the dark side of the force are something that used to actually exist in the old canon. The idea that only the intentions of the user matter was viewed as an heresy that ultimately lead to the fall to the dark side. It's almost an attempt to apply post-modernism to Star Wars.

>and is also a Jedi.

The problem with that logic is that sometimes "Jedi" is used to mean "force user" when it probably shouldn't be.

For instance, if you're a dark side user, but not an official "Sith", you're called a "Dark Jedi" despite not being a Jedi at all.

Not canon.

But also not new. Therefore, the setting was "ruined" a long time ago and it's bizarre to only now act like it's a problem.

When is the term dark Jedi ever used?

every force user is a jedi or only those that recived jedi training ( and in some cases rejected it)?

And rereading that article, I'm suprised in how much that is becoming the current belief of how the force works in the new canon.

Dark Jedi are generally defined as people who were formally trained in the Jedi arts, but use the dark side of the Force. This isn't just "Force sensitive who is evil" it's a Jedi who practices the dark side. A Sith is a follower of the Sith philosophy, and as such believes in a totally different code of conduct.

Basically those are two different traditions in the dark side.

The Jedi are supposed to be a specific organization.

But since in most Star Wars media, they're the only good guys who can use the force and Sith are the only bad guys who can use the force, so the terms become synonymous when they logically shouldn't.

Has there ever been a Force-Sensitive who learned how to use it on the level of a Jedi without ever actually joining either the Jedi or the Sith?

What would you call them? Because usually, "sensitives" are only ever shown to be untrained novices.