Wonder Woman and Politics

The idea that nobody can come up with a solid direction for Wonder Woman always seemed like bullshit. She's a diplomat, her nation's official ambassador. Seems like if DC just had her do her job, they'd be set. It'd sure be way more interesting than harping on the greek shit all the time.

We get enough political jump rope with Aquaman

>only one character at a time is allowed to do political stuff
user, pls. Don't be that guy.

There is a difference though. Aquaman's politics are largely internal; WW's are not and would involving bringing in a lot of real world politics into the comic. External politics would also mean that you'd have to show Themyscira in the wrong or acting entirely in self-interest to not look like Mary Sues and you'd also probably see their political stances change with every writer.

Beyond that most people understand that being an ambassador is a massively time-consuming job and very dependent on maintaining a good working relationship with your host country, neither of which really allow for one to be a vigilante.

>would involving bringing in a lot of real world politics into the comic.
Not necessarily. There are plenty of established fictional nations Themyscira could interact with.

>External politics would also mean that you'd have to show Themyscira in the wrong or acting entirely in self-interest to not look like Mary Sues
Right, so you seem to have not read a WW comic, since you seem to be under the impression that's a thing. On the rare occasion the Amazons even get to interact with the rest of the DCU, they're almost always in a grey spot, like most real countries.

>being an ambassador is a massively time-consuming job and very dependent on maintaining a good working relationship with your host country, neither of which really allow for one to be a vigilante.
... Is that really a bad thing though? I mean, the whole vigilante thing has historically never really worked out so well for her storywise, so...

Do you know why Wondie can't work for politics? Because most of the time, that'd mean either being evil, or fighting capitalism and american company's exploits over the world. And we can't have that.

She's had a continuously running comic for nearly 80 years, the whole vigilante superhero thing has worked out pretty damn well all things considered. If anything you're calling for yet another total revamp of Diana, this time into a series that consists of nothing but people sitting around and talking. Brian Michael Bendis eat your heart out.

She be better served by having another Amazon as the official ambassador and having Diana function as a government-affiliated advocate who works through lobbying and NGOs to influence the UN. You'd still get the ambassador aspect, but also be free to have her go on superheroic adventures.

>. If anything you're calling for yet another total revamp of Diana
Perez, Jimenez and specially Rucka run all lot of focus on her role as a diplomat.

The response is specific to the assertion that Diana operating as a superhero has never really worked out for her.

I'd just write her like Tom Strong.

>She's had a continuously running comic for nearly 80 years, the whole vigilante superhero thing has worked out pretty damn well all things considered.
Has it now? The frequent revamps, the utter lack of any substantial pop culture presence outside the fact she exists, the fact almost nobody actually reads her book, and the fact that many people actively detest many of her iconic elements specifically her rogues, and invisible jet... Those are all signs of her doing well, huh? Hell, don't even get me started on how recently she's been reduced to a non-entity in her own book.

She's only been around so long out of obligation, and the fact she's never allowed to do anything interesting ain't helping.

>implying there have never been any tensions between Themyscira and the US
See what I mean? Nobody reads this shit. Fucking hell.

i always got bored with wonder woman because her back story is straight out of greek lore and not something new and interesting.

>would involving bringing in a lot of real world politics into the comic
Hold on, what's wrong with Wonder Woman exploring real world issues? That's what she was created for.

I mean, you don't see people complaining about Green Arrow being politica-Oh... Oh wait that's right. Goddamn, comic book fans are a bunch of stinkin cowards.

I wish you guys wild stop trying to "fix" Wonder Woman, because in the past 24 hours I've read the dumbest shit
>"WAH! Wonder Woman shouldn't carry around a sword/shield
>"More Greek mythos!"
>"More diplomat shit!"
Seriously. It's shit like this that causes retcons every run

She wasn't created to explore real world political issues, she was created to explore how some guy though his fetishes could create a Utopian society of loving submission.

Well then what do you suggest, retard? Things have gotten so bad, Diana is no longer the focus of her own fucking book. Clearly something has gone amiss, and a solution is desperately needed.

It's really simple; commit to a canon, and tone down on the 4th World shit.

Every Tom, Dick, and Harry has their vision on what WW should be, and go out if their way to reinvent shit that doesn't need to be. Christ over half her rogues gallery is just cameo job fodder

>It's really simple; commit to a canon
Not a solution when no one can decide what canon works and what doesn’t. Your suggestion is a non answer.

>how would you solve this problem?
>it’s really simple: solve the problem
Thanks for your input.

And nothing you've added in this thread does Diana any good and hasn't been done already. Good brain storming session, user.

>commit to a canon
Great non-answer there, shitwhistle. No shit commit to something, the question is what. There's a ton of different elements of the franchise, and ideally they'd just blend them together since none of them are actually incompatible unless you're a turbo autist who hates fiction as a concept. But almost nobody outside of like twelve people know what they are because nobody reads WW.

>rogues
Memes demand that Wonder Rogues are disallowed from being anything but cameo jobbers.

it's much easier making her a generic warrior woman like everyone else.

>tensions between themyscira and the us
cop out
have her explore the actual tensions between the us and actual countries

Okay admittedly I was oversimplifying it, but it is true. Every goddamn writer seems to plant us back to square one, especially Rucka. And her villains really do deserve more respect. Hell, Silver Swan is just filler, because they're more concerned about that Darkseid/Grail nonsense. Like why can't Giganta get a decent story? Id take a simple modern Blue Snowman story at this point. I also want the invisible jet back, but fat chance that will happen

But then DC would receive TWICE the insipid complaints from D&C fanboys about selling out to the SJWs

Why? The U.S isn't her homeland, it's just where a bunch of her friends live. Unless Themyscira makes a formal alliance, the U.S' problems are of no concern to the Amazons.

I think the issue is that everyone seems to think WW should only ever be one thing. Which is really stupid and short-sighted, especially given her history. You can have your mythic epics, but also have street level commentary, political thrillers, space odysseys, wacky sci- fi shit, etc. Limiting the character exclusive to myth shit is awful and boring as hell.

>Invisible Jet
Mah nigga! Giving Diana flight was just as huge a mistake as getting rid of the Amazons' advanced tech. The Jet is an iconic element that can facilitate stories by being its own character. They only got rid of it because they wanted to make her more like Superman.

I don't think current Diana can fly, can she? Also why just make Diana's day job be a U.N. Moderator or something?

>I don't think current Diana can fly, can she?
She can, which again, does absolutely nothing for her besides invite unfavorable comparisons to Superman.

Also, outside of turbo autism regarding MUH THEMES, I don't get why people think the Jet is lame. In what bullcockamaimie reality is an invisible jet plane lame?

>Also why just make Diana's day job be a U.N. Moderator or something?
Because that doesn't have anything to do with greek myth, or carving people up with a sword, or the New Gods.

Wonder Woman wasn't made to "explore" real world issues. Wonder Woman was made to extropolate on the author's ideals.

The author pursued BDSM and polyamory, and was pretty straightforward with how open Wonder Woman was to "good" slavery.

Eh, fuck those people. I for one am tired of comics being bland, safe, and utterly devoid of substance.
>NO, KEEPS POLITICS OUT OF MUH FUNNY BOOKS
Bunch of cowards can't bear the thought of reading anything even vaguely challenging.

I remember during the embassy era, Themyscira had an up and coming tourism industry, but it was never explored. Imagine Diana having to deal with some of the more conservative Amazons getting pissy at the thought of, ugh, MEN on their island. It'd be interesting, but everyone is too death scared of real shit in their fiction these days.

I know it's a joke, but you're really exaggerating about the sword thing

The sword is just a microcosm of the current issues surrounding the character. It is, admittedly, a small thing in the grand scheme of things, but symbolically representative of how DC is completely missing the point. I mean for fucks sake, she uses the sword and shield more than the Lasso and bracelets now! This month's issue seems to have forgot they even exist. Come the fuck on.

I agree. Sword and shield, and weapons in general are fine.

But they should be treated more like tools for when bracelets and lasso don't work, like opening something or protecting from incoming dangers she cannot stop with the bracelets(for example, an explosion)

she should have tried to bind Silver Swan in the latest issue, not cut her to pieces

Sword and shield are best reserved for "shit's got real" situations.

Claiming the moral high ground based on your personal prefences in picture books is the ultimate expression of failure.

That, too.

More generally, I'd like her using different tools\weapons depending on the situation, but mostly defaulting to lasso and bracelets

Her being an ambassador seems pretty hard to write to me. Themescyra is still an isolationist hidden island. They have no territorial disputes, no trade agreements, no allied nations. I don't mean to knock the Amazons but politically they're basically North Korea, except successful and truly self sustaining. What's she supposed to do realistically? Stand up in frront of a bunch of other dignitaries and ambassadors and say 'Yep, we're still doing good. NOPE, we still don't want to trade or aid any other country out side of me using my super powers to fight threats, which I would have done anyway in a non official capacity because I'm a super hero'.

I agree.

I mean: her being the ambassador of what basically amounts to a all-new nation would make for interesting stories, but they'd be stories about politics, economy, society, etc, difficult to do while she's also a super-hero.

At very least to be taken seriously even just as "exemplary nation made of only women and all the man's world should take a lesson from our civilization" would requite Paradise Island to be OPEN to man's world.

Alright, I was worried we were on the verge of a "Why does Captain America use guns!?" Kind of argument. But yes, her bracelets and lasso should be go to tools. And that's all the sword/shield are, tools, admittedly overused now. Chinese WW uses a spear, and Artemis has a huge battle axe.

the main problem is HOW she uses sword and shield.

Also, I think she should use a shorter, smaller sword most of the time. More of a combat\multi-use knife, more often used to open things than to cut people

But her nation is "GrecoRoman pop culture with hot chicks as told by people who saw Clash of the Titans once." In order to give that any substance you'd have to actually have writers of substance.

Ain't nothing to do with preferences, mate. It's a straight up fact that people yell and scream and whine whenever a comic shows signs of politically charged content.

See, that's another issue. Themyscira's absolute isolationism is, well, stupid. Shit, even the Perez run had them eventually start interacting with the rest of the world. And the self sustaining bit is questionable at best. Surely they need some kind of supplies from without.

>no territorial disputes
That needs to change, and it would be easy enough to do. The Amazons have always had a stated mission to spread a massage of peace, love, and understanding. Now, I ain't saying they need to like, conquer Qurac or something, and forcibly make it less shitty, but... It would be something, is all I'm saying.

>Has it now? The frequent revamps, the utter lack of any substantial pop culture presence outside the fact she exists, the fact almost nobody actually reads her book

That may change with the success of the Wonder Woman movie. I'm sure DC comics is taking notes.

>. And the self sustaining bit is questionable at best
Why, exactly?

> Now, I ain't saying they need to like, conquer Qurac
If anything, the opposite: they get seen as "deviated" by some country that then tries to invade them.

Still, that's the main problem of Themiscyra: it's easy top be a perfect place of love&understanding with a fixed-size population that doesn't get even sick.

I prefer the approach used in Legend of Wonder Woman, where they HAVE inner conflicts, mostly of political nature.
The idea they developed a culture and systems to deal with them in a non-violent(or limited-violence) way would be much easier to sell

Remember The Circle? Alkyone would be the perfect character to facilitate that internal conflict.

>Why exactly?
Because supplies don't come from nowhere. The Amazons have to have do e some trading with external forces at some point. You're telling me there's never been like a plague that devastated their crops and livestock in all those millenia? Unlikely. And where do they get all the metal and such for weapons and machinery?

And the fixed population thing is another big issue. How do they replenish their numbers after an attack? They get attacked a lot, so it's a fair question. Do they seek out the souls of violently murdered women and put them in new bodies?

>Because supplies don't come from nowhere. The Amazons have to have do e some trading with external forces at some point. You're telling me there's never been like a plague that devastated their crops and livestock in all those millenia? Unlikely. And where do they get all the metal and such for weapons and machinery?

I was under the impression that Themiscyra had all the natural resources the Amazons could ever need, it was given to them by the gods themselves wasn't it?

I'm wondering if maybe Wonder Woman should be given a "manga" sort of storyline where she's got a main goal that would help drive her actions that would also allow multiple parts of her personality to be displayed? Maybe there's a god of pestilence that she decides the world would be better without and decides to kill him/her/it and so she researches how to do it. Or maybe she goes on an "American Gods" type journey where she travels the world and talks to deities of all different cultures and discovers some sort of new destiny for the gods. Or there's a "War in Heaven" and Themiscyra, Diana included, need to pick sides.

Even now, based on Batman #39, she still seems to be whatever the writers want her to be.

>WW's are not and would involving bringing in a lot of real world politics into the comic.
Boy if only DC had a bunch of made up countries like the one Black Adam is from

What does the Wonder Woman movie even add to current mythos? Practically nothing I'd say

>I was under the impression that Themiscyra had all the natural resources the Amazons could ever need, it was given to them by the gods themselves wasn't it?
You can infer that, but I don't think any e has ever actually gone into it.

>Even now, based on Batman #39, she still seems to be whatever the writers want her to be.
That is to say, a prop. She really does need some direction. An overarching goal would indeed really help with that.

One such goal could be related to this. A Themyscira/Khandaq alliance or some manner of trade agreement. If you think about it, Diana and Adam have more or less the same desire of world peace, but with different methods. An uneasy alliance between the two is kind of a no-brainer.

Here's a thought experiment for Wonder Woman's personality. What's her Black Mercy fantasy/nightmare? What are her biggest regrets and pains? What does she want to see made right?

>One such goal could be related to this. A Themyscira/Khandaq alliance or some manner of trade agreement. If you think about it, Diana and Adam have more or less the same desire of world peace, but with different methods. An uneasy alliance between the two is kind of a no-brainer.
I'm going to send this to every DC editor, if you don't mind.

Alright /diana/, who do you want to write her book?

And even they're shitty and simplistic.

Wilson(she writes fantasy), Carey, Simonson, Cates, Daniel Warren Johnson.

>don't get why people think the Jet is lame
You've got to be pulling my leg.