Free Will

There is no free will.

Consider the following:
>A controlled environment
>Variables are constant
>Gravity, wind, pressure, etc.
>A paint-covered ball is dropped from a specified height
>The ball is uniformly covered in a measured amount of paint
>There is no influence on the ball as it is released
>Assume it floats motionless, until released
>It hits the ground, makes a mark, and bounces away
>The ground is smooth and level
>It moves through the air and lands in a second spot, making a mark, before bouncing away
>Again all variables are precisely controlled

If this was repeated, with all variables remaining exactly the same, and the ball was dropped in precisely the same way, would the ball create different marks on the floor?

If there would be a difference, why?

I use this ball experiment to demonstrate that if all variables are controlled, the outcome will always be the same.

I argue that every moment in our life is essentially the ball experiment. If the experiment was repeated, we would get the same outcome, only we never repeat the experiment.

Each moment in our life has specific conditions that we react to. Our reaction stems from our understanding of the world, our values, etc. Our mindset, in that moment, is only another variable in the experiment.

Finally, I ask:
If you could go back to a pivotal moment in your history, but your memory after that moment was erased, would you choose a different path? Why?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=2dPaVk4G1jg
twitter.com/AnonBabble

This is more of a /his/ thread.
Ever studied philosophy, OP? Pretty sure you would like it

Then i cum out of nowhere and pendulum click that bitch like a bitch in heat and rape your girlfriend

Not all variables can be precisely controlled though.

Chaos theory m8

Spare me

>im a dumb faggot
thats all you had to say. no need to write a wall of text that nobodys gonna read

Because the variables have changed. Future me didn't just bring back his memories.
Assuming everything is exactly the same, I don't know what I would chose. Because I have free will. But probably the same thing, because although humans can chose they usually chose what they think is right, and what they think is right doesn't change often.

Fuck you name FAG your faggotry is unbelievable

your entire post begs the question and then asks a completely other question.

you say there is no free wil
you talk about dropping a basketball
you say doing this exactly the same will produce the same result

the ball does not have consciousness and therefore it has no fucking impact on the outcome of anything.

why are you posting this shit on Sup Forums

i have free wifi

Is this how you get niggers to jump off a bridge?

Gravity is electrical and basketballs don't have souls

You would not be conscious if you did not have free will.

...

Why did it take Tolkien 12 years to write his books? Why didn't he simply will it out of his mind in one continuous stream?

Thanks but we all had this revelation at 5 years old

i love how that ball flies.

but you're wrong you know. free will and determinism are both wrong. reality is probabilistic, not deterministic, as for will, it's basically you have multiple choices but not infinite choices. fundamentally your choice is only the choice to think or not think.

we have SOME choice in a PROBABILISTIC reality.

>If this was repeated, with all variables remaining exactly the same, and the ball was dropped in precisely the same way, would the ball create different marks on the floor?
Yes you fucking retard you even pointed out the evidence that it will to yourself
>It hits the ground, makes a mark, and bounces away
>makes a mark
>mark
Drop enough fucking balls and you'll fucking change the goddamn ground that it'll make every ball go fucking ballistic holy shit do actual fucking retards post here without using their fucking brains?

t. A dumb ass bitch

You are probably determined to suck your best friends cock you motherfucking faggot

That's what Stephen King did with his Dark Tower series and look how that turned out.

You gave yourslef up to an emu at the age of 4

you are gay, your iq is between 90 and 100.

Stephen king should have a hammer brought down on him

Wrong board.. I'll move it when it dies

So you say consciousness is somehow insulated from repeatable experiment? I am saying that we are not. We have mental variables, what did you feel/think at the moment.

Can you explain this reasoning?

shhhh

Randomness doesn't imply free will.

Ones ability to predict a choice has nothing to do with whether it's chosen.

I'm far more wise than you'll ever be

>If the
/thread

>⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Free will is having an awareness of the autonomous behavior of a conscious mind... you can't control what it does, but you can pick what you like the most.

Everything is calculable, sure, but there are nearly infinite arrangements for everything that will never be fulfilled without independent action. You may be following a causality in your decision to influence something, but you're still 100% in control of your actions.

Quantum machanics. Newtonian physics only go so far. Then you factor in relativity and other things. These changes are unmeasurable but determine things such as the strength of an atoms bond and lends to variations on a microscopic scale.

The brain is also a quantum feild. Makeing it easily influenced by this. Every choice is not absolutely predictable.

Tell yourself you will raise your right hand in fI've seconds. Wait five seconds, count them out, then raise your right hand.

That is free will. That is the of free will which is meaningful, significant, relevant.

The question is not whether or not we possess 'free will' which is some technical vagary, but if we possess intention.

A world without free will is beyond comprehension. It would not matter either way because it is extralogical. What is significant is whether or not there exists intention, which the example proves beyond any reasonable doubt.

>reality is probabilistic, not deterministic,

Surely they're the same? Things are only a probability when you can't account for all of the variables. It's a probability that a coin will land heads up, but if you could control every single variable you could determine which side before it was even flipped. Our lives are the same, it only seems otherwise because there's an impossible number of factors and no experiment can ever truly be recreated.

Without the memory of what happened after I chose the certain path I want a do over of, I would take the same path, because there is nothing to inform my new decision. It would be the same me making the same choice as the first time. No new variables.

Not the brain, i mean what we would preceive as thoughts are theorised to be a quantum field.

probabilistic in the sense that I have the option to do many things, but choose to do one thing?

The real question is why, in a specific moment, would we choose one thing over many others and if given the opportunity to repeat that moment, would we choose something else.

I tried to be accurate in my description, I forgot about the paint on the floor being a variable. Or did I?
>with all variables remaining exactly the same

don't get hung up on pulling apart my example, I'm not perfect. I won't get hung up on explaining this to your followers.

>comparing physics to biology

lol. might as well try a food analogy next time

Consider the following:

>You drop a ball
>It floats away to Mars and becomes a clown
>Paris Hilton is elected President

Do you have more free will in such a nonsense universe, or less? Why?

Why five seconds and why your right hand?

OP hasn't seem Jurassic Park. Jeff Goldblum explains this when he's hitting on Dr. Grant's girlfriend.

That's just the thing. You say impossible in a figurative sense but the magnitude is indeed literal.

No particular reason. It is recollective of the "I refute it thus" parable.

It is undeniable.

This is an existential truism.

We simply cannot control all variables, making this mental exercise moot.

You know her sisters not half bad looking

no, even if you could account for all the variables (you can't, variables aren't a real thing but a bordered interpretation of a borderless substance that creates the phenomenal), even if you account for all variables you still couldn't make perfect predictions.

probabilistic in the sense that at the most basic levels of reality the universe isn't exactly sure about what the next state-change will look like (the idea being that the universe steps through one moment to next at lengths of the planck time)

you usually have two choices, that's average complexity. a few situations we encounter offer us three choices. and sometimes we have no choices, although our choices usually led us there. what you would choose is predictable, but not to any degree that the universe itself isn't.

in practice all this talk of perfect prediction is full of shit, it's not done, never was, never will be, the future will always be somewhat foggy.

that being said, we can build some amazing things and do some incredible shit with great accuracy and these questions should only really be asked in the light of pushing the envelope further.

Why not 6 seconds and why not your left hand

OK OP, but your reply still doesn't tell me the point you're trying to make
>
I argue that every moment in our life is essentially the ball experiment. If the experiment was repeated, we would get the same outcome, only we never repeat the experiment.
Part of your argument directly refutes your hypothesis.

If you're trying to pose a question it might help if you ask it in literal terms instead of layering it in things that might not make sense or get interpreted many different ways.

You always take so long to say you're a nimrod

The particular reason is your mind controls you and not the other way around.

You may say left hand and you may say right hand, but to dismiss it as random is wrong. Every single thought you will ever have is a reaction to a stimulus, and not the stimulus itself.

Every word you choose to speak, and every thought you ponder is created for you by your ego. All you can do is pick it apart based on how you want to.

Free will is the lack of knowing what comes next. Everything is on a set path because the universe it defined by a set of physical rules. We truly do have free will but only because we aren't aware of what's going to happen next, if we were aware then we wouldn't have free will.

No one ever said it couldn't be that.

Are you being inflammatory because you can't reconcile the fact that you, in any significant sense actually do have free will?

Are you deeply afraid of the fact that for everything, you are responsible?

Your entire premise is wrong.
Life is no controlled enviroment.
For your question.
Yes, who wouldn't.

No null hypothesis

Free will is a meme.

Not knowing you're a queer dyke doesn't change anything

>There is no free will.

If people have no free will to make their own decisions then why are you trying to appeal to my will and reason to agree with you?

Oh boy we're on the defensive now.

Are you afraid of 6 seconds and left hand

this is the correct aggressive counter argument.

Conciousness is a meaningless illusion. The argument of free will is as pointless as we are.

>There is no free will.

No-one knows the mechanism of consciousness, so any assertion is just pure speculation.

This is incorrect

This is for one already accounted for, and two, it's easily seen as absurdity because when you look at life you undeniably witness the opposite of such hollow roteness.

So you're saying that all of the apparent intention is actually hollow, in which case it makes 0 difference either way. Though for all practical intents and purposes, it is infinitely demonstrably false.

Even theoretically, it's false. The world isn't linear and probabilities swell life naturally, between determinations.

There not being free will does not mean one can somehow retreat from communication without it having any effect. Them providing input into your "state machine" (if you will) affecting your decisions (or not) is not a contradiction and is even a logical part of the lack of free will.

The environment is not controlled though, everything would have to line up exactly the same each time.

I agree OP, we have no reason to believe our reality operates off any mechanism other than determinism and have no reason to believe the chemical mechanisms resulting in our "thought" operate in any distinct manner.

I didn't think I was implying randomness, just the opposite. We choose things based on our understanding/beliefs. Can you guess what you might do in a situation based on your beliefs? This is kind of what I mean.

If you can pick what you like most, then you influence this decision and you do so, at every decision, from a particular mindset at that moment.

You are describing variables. Control them and you can achieve the same outcome, every time.

No, it is not. It's a thought you had in response to this thread. Then I read it, and decided to do it based on what I read.

I don't think it's beyond comprehension, or extralogical. It's exactly the opposite.

Elaborate on intention, please.

This is inline with my argument.

Every moment, all variables conspire and create an outcome.

Why do you think you keep avoiding the point?

Are you paid to be here? Do you believe that's a respectable occupation?

Reconsider your life.

You sound deeply afriad and possibly inflamed

>Are you paid to be here?

Absolutely I am

>so what forced you to make such a shit thread?

> It's a thought you had in response to this thread

Not directly.

It's called determinism. Some people think that it's compatible with free will but they are retarded. Our brains can only follow the laws of physics, continuing a chain of cause and effect that began with the big bang.

This

yes, however quantam phsysics would like a word with your considoration.

You're right OP. We either live in a deterministic universe, meaning our actions are determined by the factors we're exposed to, eliminating free will; or we live in a non deterministic universe, meaning that everything is a part of a divine plan, eliminating free will. Either way free will is an illusion, but you're still unaware of the decision you'll make until you make it so it depends how you define free will. Right now I can choose whether or not to make myself a sandwich. Whichever decision I make, I was always going to make, but I didn't know I was going to choose until I did it, so the final decision is still mine to make, its just influenced by things beyond my control.

how do you explain spastic disorders?

Your third grade English teacher would like to have a word with you.

I've always waited for someone to tell this to my face. I would stab them and say, "Sorry not my fault."

thought experiments aren't real experiements

just because you can only interpret one timeline at a time does not make your path on the divine plan, determined

This, it basically becomes a question of "what defines me, and what defines 'decision'", and at that point there's just not much reason to continue mulling over it. Maybe all of my actions were pre-determined from the very beginning, but does that really change how my experience should be perceived by myself?

theme i like to fuck with students is, look to pick up a pen, imagaine that pen and you are picking it up. Now really pick up then pen, but, i want you to imagine your hand on the pen before you touch it and complete the action.

they all go wow it felt weird to pick up a pen

Oy vey

It is your fault tho, it just means you were the kind of person that was bound to stab people

Naturally you'd need to be locked up so you don't stab more people, hmm?

cringe

>thread theme
youtube.com/watch?v=2dPaVk4G1jg

You just got sodomised

How do you define "fault"?

It's your fault.

>It is your fault tho, it just means you were the kind of person that was bound to stab people

But he didn't choose to be a violent person.

This.

And i didn't choose to be he kind of person who throws his ass in jail

>If there would be a difference, why?
Providence

free will only exists in the present moment from a first person point of view

And nobody that dislikes the fact "chose" to dislike it.
Regardless of how human interaction emerged, we still behave the way we do due to those underlying desires. As such interaction predicated upon deterministic mechanisms does not suddenly change in "meaning" simply because they're deterministic.

No one on this earth can beat a silver back gorilla hand to hand

in a quantum level, phisics are not controlled, in fact, quantum mechanics are calculated with statistics as we cannot be sure where particles will be until we mesure them. This might probably be because these particles are moving in another dimension which we cannot interact with because we are 3 dimensional beings, but this gives uncertainty to our reality.

Also probably our brain is a quantum computer which is in a quantum state and when we die we lose this state.

>"Then I read it, and decided to do it based on what I read."
>decided

Making a decision is exercising free will. If you didn't have free will, you couldn't make decisions. You'd only rely on instincts.

I have never heard a coherent model of free will in this context. The thing is you don't live in the physical world measured by scientific instruments, you live in a virtual world made inside a monkeys brain specifically for the process of making decisions, that much more relevant world has "free will". You are a decision making machine that perceives the possibilities of different decisions to evaluate them.

this shit is just a way to say "dude it wasn't me lmao".
Fuck this weird philosophy, there's right and wrong reasoning/conclusions, and this is one of them.

No because existence runs contrary to its own rules.