In Enders Game , Ender felt regret and anger after he discovered that he wiped out an entire race of invading hive mind species that in the past invaded earth and killed millions of humans.
Was his regret and anger justified?
Does the fact that he preferred "animal"(alien insect) life to that of humans confirmation that he suffered from severe autism?
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>Was his regret and anger justified?
It's morally ambiguous because bugs learned that humans are cool and didn't want to fight them anymore anyway.
Both his actions and his regret over them are justified.
good book
shit movie
They killed millions of humans, you can't just sweep that under the rug m8
>Was his regret and anger justified?
Sure.
Doesn't mean that it wasn't a necessary action.
You can feel regret over doing something you consider necessary too.
The movie, even though poorly executed, was a good medium to put forth the moral implications of the book
Read.. Then this...
They didn't want to fight them anymore because they got their shit kicked in and had zero chance of victory. Had they won in the first war they would have wiped out all of humanity without a second thought. The fact that they took pictures of the aliens with sad violin music playing in the background changes none of this whatsoever.
Refresh my memory, didn't ender feel more bad that he sacraficed a ton of real human ships in order to overwhelm the buggers because he thought it was a game?
Good book that makes the movie look like shit and I HATE books
Couldnt even finish mein kampf (sorry)
Well, that's where you're wrong. Humans lost more lives in the retaliation than they would have if they just chilled and did nothing.
I always thought his anger was a combination of having sacrified thousands upon thousands of human lives (without knowing he was doing so) to wipe out an entire civilisation of sentient creatures.
That'd do a doozey on you, even if you knew it was justified
If you read the books he did not wipe out the formics. At the end he found the last remaining queen in her egg and took her with him. Read Speaker, Xeno, and Children
>They didn't want to fight them anymore because they got their shit kicked in and had zero chance of victory.
Nice pro-human propaganda.That's exactly what happened.
>The fact that they took pictures of the aliens with sad violin music playing in the background changes none of this whatsoever.
Haven't seen the film, wouldn't know what you're on about.
it's the same shit the aliens did to us, if you don't feel any form of empathy you're just a monkey with underdeveloped emotions, or better, a gypsy.
same fag from romania posting shitty threads here everyday, don't you have some family to feed?
>was genocide justified?
Genocide is always justified. The weak should fear the strong
If they chilled and let themselves be genocided instead?
Read the Bean books, too. They elevate the series even higher.
First book is actually the weakest one.
Didn't eEder curbstomp some dude in the fucking bathroom when he was still middle school aged?
As I said, aliens didn't want to fight humans by the time humans started going after them.
>an entire civilisation of sentient creatures
Only the queens were sentient though.
There were probably only like ~100,000 queens on their planet compared to the amount of life on earth. It was easily worth it to destroy their planet.
When I watched his reaction I thought the same, but he seemed exclusively concerned about the alien planet and not the human crew of the fleet he sacrificed to achieve his objective
It's explained that the aliens thought humans were mindless cattle, just how we treat chickens.
Once they found out we're more, they didn't want to attack anymore.
That's the recurring theme, extreme retaliation to prevent any future attacks. Kind of like the bombs on Japan.
The point is that if the aliens had no plans to attack anymore, this protective retaliation becomes pure revenge. But they didn't know that. But they only didn't know that because they didn't try to communicate.
So it's not black and white.
Star ship troopers had the right concept of alien extermination. There is nothing morally wrong with expansion and genocide. If we didn't, the enemy would. We don't glass everything because some things have strategic or economic importance. To the soldier who dies for these objectives, it does not matter why they died, it matters that they had the privilege to die for something.
Service guarantees citizenship
>There is nothing morally wrong with expansion and genocide
Wow so edgy
>If we didn't, the enemy would
You missed the entire point of the movie, good job
>If we didn't, the enemy would.
That's the difference between the universes. Ender's Game's enemy wouldn't.
Mars Aeternum?
I like how he sacrifice his fleet to ensure victory. Played like a true real time strategy player.
>Star ship troopers had the right concept of alien extermination.
Starship troopers wasn't about alien extermination thought, humanity had alien allies and the war wasn't even the main event.
"just a prank bro" doesn't cut it and that's ignoring that xenocide is always justified.
Mars aeternum friendo.
>inb4 the robot is the only character to make it out of the campaign alive
Nah, he's talking about the book mate.
>That moment when your last ghoul dies but all his peons are dead.
Not really. He was just a child though with a big heart and naive view of the universe. Intelligence does not always equal wisdom, especially in the young.
If you read the books, you understand that at the end of the day, Ender would do exactly what he had to do. Apply just enough force to stop a threat in the immediate and in the long term. He wasn't vindictive, he didn't even want to fight, his nature was to do what was necessary. He was sickened with himself that this was part of his inborn nature. It was more self loathing than regret or anger.
I don't think he felt regret or even real anger after wiping out the buggers. It was more of shock given the gravity of what had just happened and confirmation that he had that in him. That he was more like the monster Peter and less like Valentine when the situation called for it made him hate himself. He strived to be more like Valentine to balance the monster in himself, his connection to the egg and the survival of the insectoids was him trying to hold on to his shattered humanity.
Glad you're willing to go so far for revenge, Monte Cristo-kun, but at some point you can't argue reasonably for it.
>but at some point you can't argue reasonably for it
Why would we have to?
If I remember correctly, the Formics were searching the galaxy for water for their home world being barren and dry. They saw Earth and came to get it, but in the process they attacked what they thought were primitive creatures. They learned that humans are sentient as they are, and even though their first invasion was a failure, they vowed to not invade Earth again as it already belonged to a sentient race. Which is their code that they try not to break.
Ender was able to understand all of this when he met one of the Queens. Hence the tears. She was even trying to communicate to him through the games, as he had such a higher level of understanding than anyone else.
Who gives a shit they were bugs.
Why would I be reasonable about things? Seems like the better choice.
THIS goy knows his shit, the bugs probably planted the thought that they think that humans are McKay to fool that retarded kid into savings their race trust me it takes a bug to understand the bug.
>long thought out rant justifying why ender Wiggins has fee fees
Sorry fampai all I heard was "bitch boy lets the bugs fuck with his mind". Only good bug is a dead bug, bitch boy was clearly not thinking about the long game of star colonization
> seriously discussing sci-fi narratives
What about the evoks?
Ok, let's be reasonable for a second: We're dealing with a species that's responsible for the death of millions of your own due to their carelessness in their first contact that might have cost who knows how many other species' existence in the past. Their continued existence also might put other species in the universe at risk at some point in the future - something which xenocide would prevent.
Meanwhile NOT committing xenocide provides... (nothing, because they're bugs that got fucked up the ass by a small boy).
If the future of mankind doesn't involve being extremely xenophobic and genocidal on an intergalactic level i will be disappointed.
How was Starship Troopers 3, by the way?
Watched 1 and 2 yesterday, and I regret spending any time on the latter.
space niggers need to fuck off. Earth is for earthlings.
>they didn't know humans were sentient
Well they did a piss poor job on recon.
Fuck bugs
Ender did nothing wrong
Especies wars now!
So, warhammer 40k manifestation
Learn to read? Ender's Game series is classic Sci-Fi that will resound throughout nearly every future Philosophical Sci-Fi until the end of time.
They were under the assumption that humans were like hem and had a queen, and they were only killing drones that meant very little.
After they realized that each human was its own being they stopped wanting to kill them like they were.
>How was Starship Troopers 3, by the way?
Watch this video:
youtube.com
That's the only noteworthy part of it. Make of that what you will.
>Meanwhile NOT committing xenocide provides... (nothing,
Not wasting human, time, energy and other resources.
As to the 1st paragraph, you just have to wu your wei the right way.
And that means they shouldn't be stomped out of the realm of existence by humanity's mighty boot because...?
of course it was, because they tricked him into it.
I mean, it's one thing to intentionally commit genocide. Can you imagine if someone tricked you into it? Like...wtf.
>Not wasting human, time, energy and other resources.
But at that point those were already wasted. Stomping on that one egg would be a drop in the bucket and finish the job.
Kill or be killed. No way to defend against a relativistic kinetic strike. Smash those bugs before they can get us.
>They didn't want to fight them anymore because they got their shit kicked in and had zero chance of victory.
Is there actually a source for this in the movie?
In the movie the insects are portrayed as being able to overcome humanity very soon. The size of their military indicates that to be true.
Totally false.
The Buggers thought that killing humans was like clipping toe nails. They operated as a hive mind, so when a single Bugger was killed it was basically meaningless.
They realized after the SECOND invasion that humans were, in fact, individual sentient creatures. So they decided to stop attacking humans, and hope that we too accepted the peace between species.
Of course we fucking didn't, and nuked those lobster ass niggas into oblivion using an autist.
>Enders game is top tier sci if that will resound forever
You're a fucking pleb with shit tier taste if you think any of the ender series are anything but young adult drivel. Your shit tier literature isn't fit to wipe gene Wolfe's ass
>hollywood character breaks down when they kill bugs that want to genocide the human race
>hollywood glorifies people killing nazis
If globalism is to set in I want it to be handled like Peter does it in the Shadow series.
Started watching, turned it off.
Surprising how a movie that's 19 years old can look and feel so much better than the newer entries.
You have to give credit to the REAL heroes of this event, the crew of the fleet that ensured the annihilation of the threat with the cost of their lives, not even flinching, their love for human kind was True, not like Ender
Proper studio produced film with a well-known and skilled director vs direct-to-video bilge.
Furthermore if you want real redpilled sci fi which is basically an extinct concept I recommend you read john c wright's books
and wolfe isnt fit to wipe joyce's
>m-muh book is better than your b-book!!!!
I laughed, thanks
Shocked that anyone can have such a high opinion of any SF that I've never even heard of before today.
So? It was still justified.
That's the exact reason why.
You clearly haven't read any of the other books. They basically treat ender like race traitor for genociding all the bugs. He is literally worse than hitler and trump multiplied together to the commies in the book
To what end?
>all these alien apologists
The fuck board am I on again?
The Hyperion cantos is pretty awesome high concept sci fi as well
I too have read the series. Its a very good read overall, and i especially liked Speaker For The Dead, that novel was exceptional and beautifully told by OSC.
Praise Jane.
>never heard of gene Wolfe's books. Pretty widely regarded as the greatest science fiction series ever written
>routinely discussed on Sup Forums in redpilled book threads
>a book that universally pisses off women
So you're a newfag, got it
Shadows Alive never
As long as they stay on their own planet, I'm fine with them
To the end of revenge. A very human justification.
whats to stop the insects from making the same mistake again?
At least the twat who recommended Blindsight to me told me I would fucking hate it, but it should be read anyway.
He was wrong, of course, it's bullshit on chips that Scalzi did better and it causes me physical pain to admit Scalzi did anything good.
Absolutely ever criticism I might lay against the book was put to rest by the ending. I cannot speak a word against it.
>Pretty widely regarded as the greatest science fiction series ever written
That's clearly not true. Your definition of widely is shit.
>routinely discussed on Sup Forums in redpilled book threads
Oh, it's Sup Forums scifi. Those threads suck. Heavy on 300 yr old philosophy and shitty Turner Diaries tier books, short on Public Policy, Games Theory and Defense. Also, discussed is a pretty loose description of threads full of people posting their own shitty book of choice and no one replying to anyone else's posts.
>a book that universally pisses off women
They'd have had to hear about it first, which they haven't. But that tells me more. Faggy MRA bullshit scifi for the Sup Forumslack's who look longingly at /lit/ but just can't hack the boring shit they read.
>kill millions for our resources
>"oops, sorry, no hard feelings right?"
>Shadows Alive never
Never what?
Also, how does it intend to link Bean's and Ender's plotlines if they are several millenia apart?
Buggers fundamentally were unable to comprehend that human's life were valuable and each individual mattered. Queens mattered and everything else was just a living extension of their will.
When buggers boarded human craft and began systematically slaughtering the crew the Queens did not do it out of malice or hatred. They saw it as simply removing another Queens influence.
The attack on Earth was a misunderstanding but the intention was to seize Earth. Had their Queen not been randomly sniped Mankind likely would not have survived the initial attack.
Earth sent everything and then some to kill the threat once and for all after all attempts to communicate failed. Ender and some Queens finally coming to some basic beginnings of understanding do not negate the fact that the buggers were insanely dangerous and could easily wipe out mankind. We had no choice. It was us or them. There is no telling if Ender's peace would have even happened. If the buggers would follow suite and not attack later.
It was like finding a venomous scorpion on your chest in your sleep. It was poised and ready to sting but maybe just maybe it did not want to attack. It was just as frightened as you were and wanted to disengage from a no-win scenario.
You still swap it off and smash it to death for fear of your own life and the unknown actions of a creature so detached from humanity you cannot possibly assume their next action.
This is basically how I see things. He should have killed the last queen.
It's funny how much of an absolute newfag you are when your only defense is calling a book written in 1980 faggy mra shit. You're the kind of faggot that waxes poetic about how great a shit book like Enders game but would shit all over actual literature like pic related. You have no taste and are a pleb in the highest regard
>Absolutely ever criticism I might lay against the book
I am perturbed to this day that he literally cucked himself.
It was a joke about it taking forever to come out.
>Also, how does it intend to link Bean's and Ender's plotlines if they are several millenia apart?
You haven't read Shadows In Flight? That's the most recent book. It answers your question.
PURE WEAPONIZED AUTISM
disappointing letdown of a movie when?
This is my most favorite novel series.
For that time only. They pose a future risk to the entire human species. They had to be whipped out.
>attack earth
>fail
>oh FUCK, that world was owned sentient life. Well lets HOPE for the best and not try and communicate "our bad"
>oh FUCK now they are coming after us
you end a threat, even if they wouldve left humanity alone the fact that they go around slaughtering species was enough to end them
Oh, right. Still, it seems unnecessary.
Can you not learn to forgive and forget? Hate begets more hate, if there was no more danger there would be no need for any retaliation when you could forget the self destruction of revenge.
>self destructive
That's where you're wrong, kiddo. Bugs are dead. Humanity wins again.