"ITALY NO!" edition.
What the referendum actually means (ita):
>Marco Travaglio - Perchè No Tutte le bugie del Referendum -
youtube.com
tl;dw
>Perché NO Tutte le bugie del Referendum (di Marco Travaglio) - Estratto a Di Martedì 21 giu 2016
youtube.com
Previous:
Other urls found in this thread:
discord.gg
camera.it
referendumcostituzionale2016.it
en.wikipedia.org
referendumcostituzionale.online
bastaunsi.it
wallstreetitalia.com
primeeconomics.org
express.co.uk
youtube.com
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
youtu.be
discord.gg
youtu.be
youtu.be
youtu.be
youtu.be
youtu.be
youtu.be
twitter.com
>Italian Sup Forums Discord - Sup Forumsiticamente Scorretti
discord.gg
>PDF sulla nuova legge elettorale (in Italiano)
camera.it
>Sito Ufficiale sul referendum (in Italiano):
referendumcostituzionale2016.it
>Information on upcoming referendum (in English):
en.wikipedia.org
>Sito ufficiale del comitato per il No (in italiano)
referendumcostituzionale.online
>Sito ufficiale del comitato per il sì (in italiano)
bastaunsi.it
>JP Morgan: sbarazzatevi delle costituzioni anti-fasciste
wallstreetitalia.com
>JP Morgan: Enough with anti-fascist costitutions
primeeconomics.org
>Maria Paola Toschi, strategista del mercato globale al JP Morgan Asset Managment dice a CNBC: "Il referendum Italiano di questo Dicembre potrebbe creare volatilità attraverso i mercati mentre l'anno si avvicina alla sua fine"
>Maria Paola Toschi, global market strategist at JP Morgan Asset Management told CNBC: "The upcoming Italian referendum this December may create volatility across markets as the year draws to a close."
express.co.uk
youtube.com
Translation of the summary (first 3 minutes) is the following (1/2):
Let's see how the new Senate works, folks, because the fastest Matteo has taken an easy process, take two system and multiply them by 5: 10 systems. The snakes and ladders game, stuff for psychiatric departments naturally, will increase out of proportion the contentious between Chamber of Deputies (CoD) and Senate (S), Parliament and Regions, with infinite conflicts of power that will all end in front of the Constitutional Court. It's the "Office for Complications of Simple Affairs". Please, follow me in these 10 stages of the snakes and ladders game.
1. For Constitutional Laws, the system remains the same
- Perfect bicameralism between CoD and S
2. For Ordinary Laws, absolute chaos:
- Approval is up to the CoD and S can always give its 2¢
- Montecitorio Palace (CoD) approves, sends the law to Madama Palace (S) where within 10 days 1/3 of senators' votes are enough to review the text
3. In case of review by S, there're 2 options:
- S can leave everything as it was decided by CoD or amend the law within 30 days
4-5. If they amend within 30 days, the law goes back to CoD who have last word and there, there're 2 options:
- Receive and approve the amendments by S
- Ignore the amendments by S and restore the original text approved by CoD with the Simple Majority (half +1)
6. Completely different procedure for laws about Territorial Autonomy's Matters:
- If the government decides to activate them, there's the Clause of Supremacy (don't ask me what it is because it's too complicated )
- S has again 10 days to review or ignore them, then 30 more days to approve eventual changes
- If S doesn't touch anything, it passes as CoD decided.
7-8-9. If S changes anything, the text goes back to the CoD:
- CoD can discard the amends done by S, but in this case the Simple Majority won't be enough, that would be too simple, they need Absolute Majority vote (half +1 of the elected)
- In case S's amends were done with Simple Majority, CoD can also overcome it with Simple Majority vote, maybe, this is not very clear because they're still arguing about it.
- Without majority in the CoD, the law passes as S amended it.
10. The Financial Law follows yet another different process:
- CoD approves it then sends it to S
- S automatically votes it but have only 15 days to amend it
- If S amends with Simple Majority, CoD can re-amend the amendments with Simple Majority
- If S amends with "Complicated" Majority and CoD doesn't reach a "Complicated" Majority, nobody knows how the fuck we're going to figure it out. Then, if there're conflicts or appeals, presidents of both chambers meet to find a resolution, but, the presidents are 2 people: if one has an idea and the other has another idea, who wins? the most beautiful one? or do we go in front of the constitutional courts? about these "silly issues" the reform doesn't care, thus leaves everything suspended.
This way We have gone from Perfect Bicameralism to Bullshit Bicameralism/Crazy Bicameralism (2/2).
tl;dr for everything else:
>Reduce senate members from 315 to 100
This makes corruption easier. It's more easy to bribe 51 senators than 158 and much cheaper. The original law writers decided it would be 315 in order to make corruption harder and prevent the creation of a echo-chamber.
>Senate has no more decisional power and works only as adviser.
This effectively gives full power to the Chamber of Deputies, therefore to the currently ruling party (Renzi's), since the Senate becomes pretty much useless.
>Increase of signatures from 50'000 to 150'000 required for Citizens' Initiative law proposal.
This blatantly reduces the power of taxpayers, it's already hard enough as it is now to find 50'000 signatures, figures 150'000.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
>discord.gg
"IL LINK NON è VALIDO O è SCADUTO"
Ti svegli,Cristo?
Give me a fresh link, for fuck's sake
Non ce l'ho, quel link l'ho trovato in un filo dell'altro giorno. Personalmente, non uso discord.
Austrians out
>IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE
IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE
>IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE
IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE
>IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE
IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE
>IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE IMPORTANTE
>VOTATE Sì GOYIM
>t. JewP Morgan
To non Italian speakers: disgrunted journalist shows evidence of globalist agenda
- Napolitano (old dude in vid, former pres of Republic - highest authority in the country and creator of the very same referendum we're talking about) saying on TV that the objectives pushed by Renzi are lies covering a different agenda.
- journalist describes how his colleagues "went crazy and couldn't handle it"
- journalist shows and reads excerpts from 48 pages 2014 italian senate document describing globalist objectives, calling free voting system "limited", advocating against it and making the example of the world's "greatest democracies" as the one to follow (Guess who!)
>Brexit
>Trump
>Fillon in France yesterday
Can Italy and Austria make 2016 the GOAT?
Votato NO e convinto i miei genitori e mio fratello.
I did my part. Speriamo bene.
Based Spain
>when somebody says "the EU did nothing wrong"
>Senate is easier to bribe
>Senate is useless
>??????
>Increase of signatures from 50'000 to 150'000 required for Citizens' Initiative law proposal.
>This blatantly reduces the power of taxpayers, it's already hard enough as it is now to find 50'000 signatures, figures 150'000.
Yeah but before they could just don't care about them, they would be obliged to discuss them with the NEW IMPROVED CONSTITUTION ™
>when the Euro is about to collapse and you're all in on Bitcoin
>when you realise that your microphone was bought with euros instead of liras
Let's wait for the libertarian piddino in denial.
He's funny to read how retarded he is.
*It's
>when somebody says "libertarianism is the answer"
>>Senate is easier to bribe
>>Senate is useless
>>??????
The only reason why Renzi didn't propose to erase the senate completely is to keep face.
Reducing the number of senators does in facts make bribing easier, we've a past of failures thanks to bribers among politicians, besides 310 brains are better than 100, laws shouldn't be overlooked. What I mean when I say useless, I mean the Chamber of Deputies can force a law anyway using the "Complicated" Majority (elected +1). They would still have interest in bribing the Senate because if the Senate just passes the law as the CoD written it, they will save time.
It's also worrisome that there are people this retarded voting
...
SI SI SI SI SI SI SI SI
SI SI SI SI SI SI SI SI
SI SI SI SI SI SI SI SI
SI SI SI SI SI SI SI SI
SI SI SI SI SI SI SI SI
SI SI SI SI SI SI SI SI
>when you pay the check with liras instead of euros and they are too distract to notice
insulto al duce se permetti
My sisters and I have dual citizenship in Italy. I voted NO for them.
3 votes for NO.
...
Thanks based aussie
Good job straya bro.
3 No's dalla Svizzera
>dato che è na mazzata da 11 minuti non lo vedrà nessuno
underrated post :^(
Io voto si.
They're begging for YES votes from abroad, thanks for helping us
...
...
They can lick my ass, in famiglia siamo tutti razzisti e destra
NO will win, i'm more concerned about France though.
>Travaglio as example for valid argument
>ever
I just got a boner
Just watch the video you dip, he gives good reasons to vote No
I'm worried about France too, they're actually demolishing churches only to rebuild mosques there.
Very ominous event.
>stating facts
>invalid
>discord.gg
new link to discord pls
;^))))))))))
We talk mostly in italian dude
discord.gg
DELET THIS
Try this:
So, we are all opposed to Islam and building mosques in Italy here, right?
found it nvm
Any Italians know when the results are due in?
Voting Yes just because Sup Forums, Five Shits Movement and >Salvini say no
This could be big if it fails. Not only will you get rig of an imposed eurocrat, the entre shitheap will get washed away. Keep up the good fight. This will eclipse Brexit and Trump by miles.
Wow you sure have some solid reasons right here
YES
tl;dr please
>tfw invested in real estate and guestworkers from Poland finance my addiction to alcohol, speed and cheap eastern European prostitutes
wait wtf?
Voting finishes in 151h30'
Results in about 151h30'/152h I guess
Hurr durr fuck Renzi no one elected him even though PD won elections
You too my friend
Morning of the 5th December
Fucking hell lads
Bit premature for a thread then
good luck italy!
nice try nomfup
Well I don't like Renzi, but I'm voting No because this reform it's utter shit, not because PD it's full of cucks
Magari ti costruiscono una moschea davanti casa.
Porco cane rabbioso.
:^))))))))))))))))
t. pidiota furente
>tfw know that best big thing after bitcoin and if I had 20k euros it would make me a millionaire but I'm a broke uni student with no savings
Been making thread since October lad, Renzi is trying to buy votes from abroad, gotta stop him somehow
*next big thing
I don't like him either but we can't have another government failing
There's no one competent enough to take over
Reminder that the Lombard League consisting of only mainly infantry btfo HRE troops in the Battle of Legnano May 29, 1176
HRE will forever be a meme and so will your shit country, Germany.
...
>There's no one competent enough to take over
An elementary school kid is as competent as Renzi, literally anyone could replace him and it would still be an improvement
We need good politicians, having stability doesn't matter when your government sucks
il partito matthew , mettilo nella borsa matthew
,nessuno deve farsi male per forza, ti chiedo
una cosa molto semplice :lascia il
partito.Il tuo teatrino è durato abbastanza , lascami il partito e non ti accadrà nulla , ti scorterò te e i tuoi cari fino al confine matthew.
Tu pensi che questo sia un gioco matthew? il mio partito democratico, la mia casa , pensi davvero che avrei permesso a un mongolino di firenze di distruggere tutto quello che ho costruito in così tanti anni di fatica e sacrificio matthew?Mettiti tutto a terra finiscila prima che sia tardi.....no.... non puoi tenerti la boschi lei viene con me.Il partito matthew ......IL PARTITOHH
>renzi si sveglia tutto sudato alle tre di notte ne suo letto
>si gira
>sua moglie è lì ma ha qualcosa di
strano....non ha più i capelli
>in un secondo le sue pupille si stringono ed il sangue gli gela nelle vene
>realizza che quella non è sua moglie
>quell'essere che lo sta fissando dall'altra parte del letto è...è bersani, che lo fissa a sua volta con due occhi arcigni e privi di qualsiasi umanità
>in un attimo il povero matteo sento come un sussuro, una dolce brezza accarezzargli il collo , è la katana emiliana di peir luigi B che gli attraversa la giugulare da parte a parte
>sangue ovunque
>il povero matteo vede la luce della vita farsi sempre più piccole e flebile
>l'essere si avvicina lentamente al suo orecchio e con fare maligno e voce profonda gli sussura :"Portarmelo via così e cosa ancora peggiore farlo vincere....davvero pensavi che ti avrei perdonato o che saresti riuscito a fuggire?Povero sciocco... "
>il cadavere di matteo renzi sarà ritrovato il mattino seguente nel suo letto dalla moglie, inspiegabili le circostanze dell'accaduto.Gli inquirenti non hanno prove se non una scritta fatta col sangue davanti alla salma del povero matteo ,che recita:"IL PARTITOH".
honestly is there anyone who cares about the actual reform
probabbly 90% of italians couldn't understand what this is about
>government failing
>credere che Renzi si dimetta se perde
...
ho votato no al consolato italiano
Idioti.
Secondo voi perchè gli altri paesi ci considerano pigri e fannulloni?
Siamo lenti a fare tutto compreso passere leggi e voi volete che rimaniamo così per sempre! Idiozia portami via.
Quanto ci vorrà per capire che il bicameralismo perfetto è una merda? Altri 20 anni di non fare un cazzo e governi di coalizione?
Both campaigns use populist slogans to gain votes, also Renzi saying that he would resign if the No wins, it's mostly their fault if we're like this now
...
Hai letto la lunghezza degli iter legislativi riformati?
Per alcune leggi si tratterà comunque di più di 50 giorni.
E tra l'altro abbiamo già i decreti legge per far passare leggi velocemente.
Il bicameralismo rimane, genio, è tutto solo più complicato di prima
E abbiamo bisogno di buone leggi, non più leggi, sti cazzi della velocità
Wanna go shitpost on Matteo's live feed anyway?
abbiamo bisogno di governabilità
>secondo paese in europa per numero di leggi passate ogni anno
>"siamo troppo lenti!"
Neanche fossimo gli USA porca eva.
>E tra l'altro abbiamo già i decreti legge per far passare leggi velocemente.
porco dio l'abuso dei decreti legge è proprio uno dei cancri di questo paese
Fucking this.
I was so fucking pissed off when I found it out.
I wonder what is going on in other southern european countries regarding their constitution, since according to (((financial institutes))) we should all get rid of those.
Spainbros and Portugalbros, what's the deal in your countries?
Lots of bros from other countries today.
>Renzi spoke up against the eu, alright, but do you think he's not doing that just to promote the referendum?
Might be, but it's a step forward beyond a simple promise.
>Why does he keep talking about "muh EU must change" and does nothing to actually do that?
Because Merkel ruined us with the Austerity measures,we've been economically damaged and we're forced to take immigrants, what Renzi is asking is for other member countries to respect their migrant quotas not for muh humanitarianism, but to relieve some pressure on us since our infrastructures are at full capacity and we can't deal with it anymore.
>Why is he approving every law the EU proposes?
Again, if you want change you gotta work from the inside and suck it up.
>Why is he pro-TTIP, since that would fuck up our economy?
Fuck,I don't remember what TTIP stands for.
>Why is he pro-russia sanctions?
Why would Russia need Crimea? Because it leads to the Mediterranean Sea, and Italy offers a good vector of invasion for a pincer maneuver.
Given how belligerent it is right now, sanctioning Russia is a safety against a buildup of power.
>He's harming the country, and does everything the EU tells him to do. He's no better than Berlusconi.
Except that the country is in shambles because of Berlusconi, the dirty unrecoverable spots in Monti, Letta and Renzi governments are all because of him.
0/10
Non ci sono abbastanza proverbi assurdi
>renzi si sveglia tutto sudato alle tre di notte ne suo letto
>si gira
>sua moglie è lì ma ha qualcosa di strano....non ha più i capelli
>in un secondo le sue pupille si stringono ed il sangue gli gela nelle vene
>realizza che quella non è sua moglie
>quell'essere che lo sta fissando dall'altra parte del letto è...è bersani, che lo fissa a sua volta con due occhi arcigni e privi di qualsiasi umanità
>in un attimo il povero matteo sento come un sussuro, una dolce brezza accarezzargli il collo , è la katana emiliana di peir luigi B che gli attraversa la giugulare da parte a parte
>sangue ovunque
>il povero matteo vede la luce della vita farsi sempre più piccole e flebile
>l'essere si avvicina lentamente al suo orecchio e con fare maligno e voce profonda gli sussura :"Portarmelo via così e cosa ancora peggiore farlo vincere....davvero pensavi che ti avrei perdonato o che saresti riuscito a fuggire?Povero sciocco... "
>il cadavere di matteo renzi sarà ritrovato il mattino seguente nel suo letto dalla moglie, inspiegabili le circostanze dell'accaduto.Gli inquirenti non hanno prove se non una scritta fatta col sangue davanti alla salma del povero matteo ,che recita:"IL PARTITOH".