What if God doesn't intervene in human affairs because God lacks self awareness and thus just creates blindly without...

What if God doesn't intervene in human affairs because God lacks self awareness and thus just creates blindly without any kind of introspection?

I put it to you that if God was self aware God would have made himself the centre of the universe as it is in the nature of all self aware beings to make themselves the centre of their own universes.

There is no master plan even if God is real, God is just a creator not a planner.

He doesn't intervene in human affairs because he understands that they are temporal.

>He

Triggered

Can you prove that human affairs are not driven by a higher metaphysical authority?

If I could, it would invalidate the "faith" aspect of religion- something that God seemsbto think is extremely important.

This isn't a question of faith. No religion was brought up, just God.

Religious knowledge is easily disproved but God as a concept is a separate matter to religion. There are many God theories that are purely physical or even transcendent of human understanding.

If god is all mighty and all powerful, which is the definition of god, he should be able to create a rock even he can't move, but then would exist a rock even god can't move, proving he is not god, and if he can move it, then he is not capable of creating a rock even god can't move, proving he is not god. Thus is the god paradox.

I think this is what makes the human being superior to god. Being conscious and aware. This is why god has expelled men. God is jealous

>If god is all mighty and all powerful, which is the definition of god,
Is it? God isn't all powerful in some religions though. The universal prerequisite for something to be God by religious standards is a demiurge.

In fact, in many polytheistic religions the demiurge and the being responsible for enforcing order are two separate beings entirely. Hell, in some polytheistic religions they aren't even just two.

I was refering to the traditional abrahamic religions concept of god. There are of course other understandings, for example many pagan gods faught, bled, and died along side their men. I pointed out the god paradox, which subjectively disproves the existance of god altogether.

but he is the center of the universe, did you miss all that stuff about worshipping him?

he's just a sadistic fuck who likes watching the ants burn under the magnifying glass

Free will life is a test.

We will inherit the Kingdom of God, and earthly worries will fade away.

Praise God. Fuck communism.

What if he ALREADY KNOWS whats gonna happen, but he gives YOU the ability to change whats going to happen through the goodness or the evil in your soul.

God can change it if he wants to, but there's literally no reason why you can't. More often than not you choose to keep making the world a shitty place, instead of actively trying to change it into a better place

Nobody was talking about the Abrahamic God, though if we are now, the God paradox is fundamentally flawed in that it assumes an omnipotent being is restrained within the limitations of a paradox.

A truly omnipotent God could make a stone so heavy it couldn't move it while simultaneously being able to move it, it doesn't make sense to you with your human understanding of paradoxes, but omnipotent literally means capable of anything.

God innately requires your faith to understand him properly, you dodged that poor user's question completely then proceeded to debate some idiot with a paradox.

Look at that picture of a fucking low-IQ retard you posted, he'll never be able to understand what a paradox is, just like you'll never understand what God is. You are limited in intellect, if you don't believe in God then you have to hope you are the smartest person in the universe, cause there's no raising the IQ you're born with and it deteriorates over time.

You use abstract thought lsmiliar to faith every day. You're just some butthurt fatass m'lady that doesn't want to branch into a new field of understanding

So what you're saying is, he is not for us to understand or question. But since we are questioning him, you questioned his self awareness, I questioned his existance.

Prove it bong

For example, if you had FAITH that the Lord was omnipotent you wouldn't struggle with your understanding of the rock

however, because you do not use FAITH

you reason it to be a paradox, because you refuse to understand how it would be possible

pretty much this. I don't see how people lie to themselves about this daily.

>God innately requires your faith to understand him properly
But user, you are confusing God with religion again. A religion is a man made body created to worship a God.

It might be impossible to truly understand the nature of God with or without faith because an absolute, infinite, omnipotent God is infinitely complex. To understand such a God would be to hold the key to unlocking all of those things I just used to describe it.

>For example, if you had FAITH that the Lord was omnipotent you wouldn't struggle with your understanding of the rock
That's not true though, all you need is understanding in what omnipotence is.

People struggle with it because they don't properly grasp the true extent of omnipotence, not because they don't have faith that God is omnipotent.

Go ask your local Rabbi, this is complex question.

Forgot to link.

Either you have forgotten, or you have never read Genesis, Exodus, or Deuteronomy but God clearly establishes a religion and commands his chosen people in the way in which to Worship him.

But see that is why i bring up your lack of Faith, as this is the exact same problem you have with the rock.

>you lack faith, therefor you think man created religion

you cannot understand what limitless power is, you can only imagine what it's like in a very platonic fashion, like a form

these things must be reasoned with similarly
>faith would allow you to reason that unlimited power would be able to preform a miraculous feat and not actually be limited

you believe in omnipotence, but at the same time you don't understand it and try to limit something unlimited in a paradox

wtf, I hate God now

>everyone's and idiot because they refuse to blindly follow
>fuck thinking outside the box, lets just take what the heavily edited bible has to say literally

Nobody is talking about religion user. This has nothing to do with faith. As I have mentioned multiple times now, religion is easily disproved because religions are created by men and it is easy to figure out how men think because we are also men.

I haven't claimed once to believe in God or omnipotence, but the definition of omnipotent is "all powerful and without limit". So "IF" God is real and God is all powerful the ONE THING we would know for certain about him is that he is all powerful and without limit. There is no faith involved at all, if God turns out to not be omnipotent that is a separate matter from this conundrum. As I said earlier, some versions of God aren't omnipotent, but the debate here is surrounding the God paradox and I have addressed it. The God paradox is fundamentally self defeating because omnipotence includes within its scope the ability to give the finger to anything that is impossible.

I bet the plank length(of time) acts like an A/C motor switching on and off creating an extra state,like the magnetic field, that is usable to some form of self-aware possibility(since it is within the set of it's own phenomenon) but orthogonal to the 'on/off' of the Planck length.

TL;DR
God is a cuck to time.

I become God's will when I kill niggers

any questions?

god exits outside the realm of time

hyperbole and an insecure stab at the logicality of my arguement.

Insinuates people would blindly follow a religion without using reason and intellect to validate an act of Faith.

>claims he's thinking outside of the box, when he doesn't ever make a faith based or any kind of existential judgement

your fedora's showing if your going to break down now and tell me you govern your lifestyle with a mathematical philosophy in every aspect and descision

Nobody is talking about religion, stop bringing it up. This is an adult conversation about the nature of God. Nobody cares what your bible says.

There is only one God my friend, just like there is only one single argument in you the exact same way spelled the exact same way each and every time you post your fucking comeback. That ONE god created religion so it is not something that man developed socio-govermental tool IF you follow the One true religion.

you don't read my argument, you don't cross-analyze my argument like i do yours either because you type slow or you think slow.

You can't say some versions of God aren't omnipotent, we're specifically discussing the One true god and how the One true god validates omnipotence.

"IF" God is real, "IF" God is all powerful, and "IF" God believed faith was the best method, and, as faith exists it must be so as it can be reasoned that faith exists; then we must conclude faith is possible, necessary, and perfect

>therefore there is no paradox, God can create a rock he can't move and then he can uncreate it

either believe it or don't

God must be an emergent PROPERTY of time given that some structure would be needed to construct a thought as god would not be subject to anthropological problems

You're not getting the bigger picture mAT80
AND ITS PISSING ME OFF cause your fucking paradox doesn't make any sense OUTSIDE OF A FUCKING SECULARIST INSTITUTION

you my friend can get fucked, enjoy your stupid philosophical dead-end argument. You just lost the only guy able to debate and disprove you.

You clearly just aren't grasping this so I will continue to emphasise it.

Logic is not faith. Believing in omnipotence is not the same as understanding it.

Omnipotence means paradoxes can easily be subverted according to the definition of omnipotence. No faith involved, because nobody is claiming that omnipotence is or isn't possible.

I am.
God is a cuck

And that is an act of faith, claiming "omnipotence means this" however is an act of logic.

you're trying to apply Logic where it just isn't needed, that's your problem. it's pointless to sit here and apply logic to something metaphysical

God does not lack self-awareness, I firmly believe God made himself centre of the universe as it is in the nature of ourselves

what human affair would you console God on to intervene. pick one

test

OPINION: God doesn't intervene in human affairs because he himself does not have free will.

He wanted to create a circumstance in which free will is tangible, where the consequences of actions are not pre determined. Wanted to see what would happen if will wasn't regulated.

god did not create religion, this is man's doing. He gave us free will. We choose what and whether or not believe. The kingdom begins and ends within you. Do not be a scumbag to others is the message. Religion is the original blue pill.

I'd like argue that time is a property of god. We can fathom, experience, and perceive time. Time is certain, it is a constant. God is unfathomable, something out of reach, something we cannot perceive, he has the power to create everything out of nothing.

You're trying to imply faith supersedes logic but when something is proven right is becomes logic. Faith is nothing, it is just a guess.

why the hell would God not have free will

wouldn't he NEED free will to decide if he wanted to create FREE WILL

wouldn't he just think "wow, this is an amazing concept," and then apply it to himself

>wouldn't he NEED free will to decide if he wanted to create FREE WILL
Not if he just created it arbitrarily or accidentally.

I thought you were leaving?

Correct
I think the writers of the bible were just trying to encode some deeper philosophical points of science and it went spectacularly wrong, once the mob got involved.

Also
>wouldn't he just think "wow, this is an amazing concept," and then apply it to himself
Is free will that great? If I was a rock I would be immortal and incapable of sadness.

IT IS HIGHLY IRREGULAR
for the deity of a universe
to interfere with the affairs of a civilization

LET ALONE THOSE WHO PRAY TO IT

The Deity provides Knowledge and Resources to be able to take care of every need that we might have.

For any that Technology or Tools knowledge cannot cover:

Shamans
Witch Doctors
Alchemists
Magicians
and Sorcerers

are provided with the knowledge to be able to warp reality to fill in the gaps

But you burned all of their books and killed them all didnt you?

So why the fuck are you asking for miracles when you killed the miracle workers that your god provided to you?

You can have bad logic, just like you can have bad faith

something can be proven right and it changes from THEORY to FACT through your definition of logic.

Depending how your logic is regulated it can be just as fallible as poor faith.

your logic is limited by your own understanding

but i guess faith is limited by your own logic

a man with GOOD logic will be a man of faith

a man with BAD logic will be a man of little faith

Doesn't have free will but understands what free will is?

is this some sort of introspective look at the human condition or something. I don't think this guy has made up his mind whether free will exists or doesn't

I'm glad God is not as you think he is.

>bad logic
Okay now I am convinced you are a full retard.

Actually look up what the word logic means instead of just spouting nonsense. Logic is neutral. Logic is just "thing is true because it can be proved".

2 + 2 = 4 is logic. I shouldn't have to explain this to an adult, assuming you are an adult. There is no faith involved whatsoever in the statement 2 + 2 = 4 unless you don't know what those characters mean.

There is philosophy, ethics, science, and history within the bible, and there's a lot of symbolism there as well. All the best parts have long been edited out. It is always advised to read the banned gospels of Judas, Thomas, and Mary and others. Symbolism is a big theme, and the book is open to interpretation.

Neither has Hawking, but concluded with "we can't know, so might as well assume we do."

>2 + 2 = 4 is logic.

It isn't, actually. Not by any definition of the word "logic".

It's "arithmetic".

intercessory prayer is a heresy and illogical. swhy Christ advised to pray only "thy will be done". The will of god is incomprehensible to us; we can barely comprehend maths. Love your fate and relish in the struggle.

>Math isn't logic
American education at its finest.

God is useless
Only because 'on ' is so close to 'off' does it even get a look in.

That's a theory, not an opinion

you have no idea if 2 + 2 = 4

you'd rather be a rock? even though you're fully aware that you are better off in your current position despite the sadness?

>John Stuart Mill

"Mill distinguishes higher and lower pleasures in his essay on "Utilitarianism." Presumably higher pleasures are generally more intellectual pleasures and lower pleasures are more sensual pleasures. "

Correct. Math is not logic.

Logic uses math.

Note how I did not illogically blame your entire country's failings for yours.

>Even though you're fully aware that you are better off in your current position despite the sadness?
Am I? That is a guess user.

If I was a rock I wouldn't be cognizant. There would be no pleasures but I wouldn't care because I wouldn't be capable of caring.

That is blatantly false user, in fact there is a school of math that is literally logic in name.

>Presumably higher pleasures are generally more intellectual pleasures

you'd be literally incurable of being nothing/non-existant if you were a rock

where-as as you are now you have the ability to be truly happy

>you'd be literally incurable of being nothing/non-existant if you were a rock
And I wouldn't care. We're getting off point here. You can only guess that you would be happier with free will because you don't know if you have free will.

why not be a chimpanzee, they seem happy

or a whale, or a turtle those things live forever and nobody really fucks with them


u have to understand you have a logical fallacy when you say you would deny yourself the capacity to understand, because clearly you're a person who thinks a lot.


I think it would be hilarious if you were a rock, maybe you can be that really heavy rock that God creates in your paradox. The biggest, strongest, most important rock

fucking idiot

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I believe you are doing nothing but exposing your own insecurities. When you cannot quietly be wrong on an anonymous message board, your pride is blinding you to reality.

>why not be a chimpanzee, they seem happy

>or a whale, or a turtle those things live forever and nobody really fucks with them
Why not indeed? You also don't know if those things have free will however.

For all you know living is pain and we are just adjusted to it and have convinced ourselves that there is nothing better because we can build really tall things and fly and shit.

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