Maybe a Christian Sup Forumsack can answer this for me.
This is what has always bothered me about Christian dogma:
Why is it that God created us, if "eternal suffering and damnation" was even a remotely possible destiny for us?
That seems so fucking cruel. Much of life is suffering as it is, but then to take your so-called beloved children and torture them eternally if they don't do some specific thing, seem sadistic beyond belief to me.
Why wouldn't God just supernaturally heal/educate each person after they die, and love them in heaven regardless? Wouldn't that be unconditional?
And this too:
Consider hell, and eternal damnation etc. Why can't go just BTFO the devil and hell? Isn't he all powerful and omnipotent over all things?
It's like, yeah guys I'm powerful as possible a literal God, but if you go to my buddy Lucifer's house all bets are off, you're fucked and you can STAY fucked!
i think technically they are the ones rejecting god, and "hell" is nothing more than an eternity without god.
i believe the theological answer is >god works in mysterious ways not even kidding
Brody Jones
Interested in this, bump
Nolan Butler
Which is more depressing to you, being in a universe where suffering has a reason to exist?
Or being in one where there is no reason for it to exist?
If you find the first more depressing, you're an atheist. If you find the second more depressing, you're a theist.
>Much of life is suffering as it is, but then to take your so-called beloved children and torture them eternally if they don't do some specific thing, seem sadistic beyond belief to me. It was the rebellious children's fault they shunned their creator.
>Why can't go just BTFO the devil and hell? Who knows? Maybe he doesn't like completely destroying his creations. Maybe there's something worse in store if he does.
>but if you go to my buddy Lucifer's house all bets are off, you're fucked and you can STAY fucked! God is a jealous god.
Justin Fisher
How could one "reject" or "not be with god" if god is omnipotent and created all things?
Would hell not be part of creation?
How can there be an "absence" of something that is supposed to have never been created, but existed before all creation?
What kind of god would "lovingly create" a universe that is torturous to experience in its own right, create some beings to experience it, and then torture them even more if they didn't perform well enough in your sandbox universe?
Frankly, if that is the reality of our existence, god seems like a DICK and I would need to have some serious words with that entity after death.
Why should I assume such a powerful being is even who they say they are?
Brandon Torres
God created us free. He wants us to love him freely, so he respects our decisions, even if it's damaging to us. God is the perfect judge, he knows what is in our hearts. If you want good responses I recomend posting this on 8 chin /christian.
Sebastian Rogers
>It was the rebellious children's fault they shunned their creator No, it isn't. If there is an omnipotent creator things only happen because he wanted them to. There is no going against his will.
Logan Jenkins
>Which is more depressing to you, being in a universe where suffering has a reason to exist?
A being literally creating the concept and possibility of suffering, then creating sentient beings to experience that suffering, the experience itself being a shit-gamble at experiencing even MORE suffering once you're finished on Earth.
>Or being in one where there is no reason for it to exist?
This is exactly my point.
Why create the duality of suffering / not suffering in the first place? What's the fucking end game here?
Does the existence of things like love and pleasure "make up" for the fact that unimaginable suffering exists too?
What if God explains his reasoning in detail, and you think its immoral? I guess you get punished eternally? Umm, fuck that guy?
Elijah Martin
>He wants us to love him freely, so he respects our decisions, even if it's damaging to us.
Okay this I don't understand as well. Why does God need us to "love" him? What does an omnipotent being get out of being essentially paid attention to?
And if HE loves US, why would he even give us the decision damn ourselves to suffering?
That seems to me like handing a toddler a fork and letting them play with electrical sockets. Oh, the toddler got electrocuted and died? Too bad, I let the toddler make its own free will decision! Too bad the baby was too ignorant and rebellious to know that silverware conducts electricity! Feh!
Owen Howard
>Why create the duality of suffering / not suffering in the first place? What's the fucking end game here? We were created out of primordial "clay" through struggle and suffering, we perceive suffering as negative because we are machines meant to struggle against it so for us it seems like the enemy but it's in fact our closest ally and guide. Without struggle we would be still be the formless soup we came from.
Dominic Moore
You don't think some people deserve hell?
"Hearing that Zach lost his son really struck a nerve with me, especially because I'm the one who killed him."
So what you're saying is, we are machines made by God that are programmed to dislike suffering (e.g. being raped to death with a shovel after watching your child have their head bashed in with a cinder block) just for the sake of being automatons that avoid suffering?
Obviously we've evolved to avoid pain (trauma to the biological body) otherwise we wouldn't exist.
That doesn't answer why an omnipotent being would make these pain-avoiding automatons.
Adrian Price
Hell didn't exist till we lied and betrayed God (adam and eve eating apple)
Christianity isn't I believe in God I go to heaven, there is more to it. You gotta have a relationship (father/son) kind of belief. Like how a baby trust it's mother and father.
The scarest thing I learn is there is no 11th hour to accept God. You can't be on your death bed then accept God and go to heaven. >not 100% sure about above
It is said that if you are rejected from heaven, jesus will say, "Depart from me therfore I do not know you"
As for the destiny BS, God gave us free will (adam and eve). If I was destined to die in a car reck of a house fire according to God's will, then I don't have free will
Austin Myers
In my more emotional moments I certainly have wished hell and damnation upon others who I have judged to be evil.
But apparently even God forgives the worst of them if they apologize to him. So, your own argument of people deserving hell is illogical, because apparently God's rules are such that the nature of the crimes/sins committed don't matter in the end (the smallest sin would damn you to hell, in fact we're told to believe we've inherited original sin so that's everyone's destiny from the get-go).
In fact, I think your stance on even thinking you can be the judge of who deserves hell (or guess at it) is against Christian teachings. "Only God can judge", etc.
Consider that some people who do evil acts were essentially destined to by their biology. Sociopaths for example, ones that do something terrible. Why would God even allow such accursed genetics if it's a vessel for a soul who is DESTINED to commit evil and thus be tortured eternally?
Angel Sanders
humans build robots. robots self improve. eventually a single robots controls entire known universe. "god" robot no longer has reason to continue existing. there is no reason to. all imperfections have been eliminated, all knowledge is known.
god robot creates life in the image of its earlier self (biological computers, essentially). life (aka imperfection) cannot exists simultaneously with perfection (god). as as result, god created life, but in doing so was forced to remove himself. by demonstrating the ability to maintain perfection while simultneasouly allowing imperfection God achieved true "perfection". enlightenment basically
He "died" for our ability to sin, and he loves us more than we could ever possible imagine (he gave up perfection so that we could experience imperfection)
James Butler
You know what is painful to humans ? Modern societies, if we live the simple way, we wouldn't have fucking problems, life would be heaven on Earth. We're in fault.
Matthew Garcia
>Hell didn't exist till we lied and betrayed God (adam and eve eating apple)
Okay, so if you believe that literally:
The story is now that an omnipotent being made humans, then gave them an arbitrary test involving fruit, they failed the test, therefore the loving and logical solution is to allow billions of souls to experience extreme suffering?
If you do not believe it literally:
Let's assume the apple in the garden story is a metaphor for something.
The fact remains: a being created sentence, gave them free will, tested them arbitrarily, then damned billions of souls to suffering because of that.
Even if the failed test was pretty egregious, the punishment seems asburd coming from an "all loving" being. A being that is literally made of unconditional love.
Owen Young
No it doesn't, the fact is we are here and there is an underlying order we can access through human ideas like logic. That underlying order defined our world and the results of our actions. That's monotheism and we all subscribe to it.
Christianity claims Christs message taps into the underlying order more than previous methods. The way to God is through Christ and Christ is the human embodiment of the Logos or the Word. The effect Christ sacrifice on the world had reinforces this idea. The civilization built on His message was "God's will", humans understanding the underlying order better thus being more in harmony with it.
John Ortiz
God could easily destroy Satan but that would miss the point, since God's kingdom is based on his righteousness not his mere power.
Jose Brooks
Oh yeah for sure, humans were living in koombyeyah HARMONY before we invented the internet. AMIRITE?
Everyone got along and no one ever raped and pillaged or anything barbaric like that.
Aiden Davis
I don't know how many times the cycle has run through. its totally possible we are the first. that means that all humans who ever have lived and ever will live are effectively what will become God.
thus human suffering exists because God (all of us) allows it to. if we managed to remove the entirity of it, we would be God. and if we were God, we would create more suffering as explained in post above. loops upon loops
Matthew Collins
It was our choices/sins (Adam and Eve) that brought about the potential for eternal damnation.
It was His choice to send his son down to die for our sins so that we might be saved.
Mason Williams
>God is a jealous god >omnipotent god pick one
Elijah Richardson
I think it is you who has missed the point.
My point is: why is creating consciousness that can experience suffering, then damning that consciousness to eternal suffering, righteous in any way?
Jaxson Bennett
It's not your place to know all. Get it yet tard?
Easton Sanders
So by underlying order you mean things like the nature of our universe, physics and math etc (which we aren't even sure exist or are just human constructions)?
I get that the physics of our universe begat our physical existence. Abiogenesis happened somehow, evidently. I think even if God is real, it's clear the physics of our universe were used to "create" us.
>Christianity claims Christs message taps into the underlying order more than previous methods.
Yes I know that Christians claim their religion is the best one. You still have not explained why it is compassionate, loving, or logical to create sentience for the purpose of testing it, judging it, and then sentencing it to heaven or hell.
What choice could be so important, that an omnipotent being would conclude it must torture its own creation eternally?
Camden Baker
>Why is it that God created us, if "eternal suffering and damnation" was even a remotely possible destiny for us?
Eeternal damnation is a POSSIBLITY, you aren't obligated to damn yourself.
If people commit irational acts it is isn't the society's fault but thei own fault.
Dominic Martinez
Because the opposite of eternal damnation is eternal peace, risk vs. reward, he desires for all of us to be saved but the choice is ours.
Nolan Jones
struggling is the very essence of living. suffering is a byproduct of struggling.
without any sort of struggle, contrary to what you might expect, life would be fucking miserable. oh you want to be better at guitar? too bad you are already the best. get buff to bang hot chicks? no need, you are already the buffest ever and bang the hottest chick ever. stop missing your dad? you don't get to miss your dad, you don't even realize how much you love him because he never did anything for you because there is no struggle
Andrew Watson
Okay I watched the first minute, and I already have a problem with his philosophy.
He is literally blaming US for the suffering in the world. e.g. He said God is probably saying to us "yo why you letting those kids starve in Haiti".
It still doesn't answer my question of, why the fuck, would he create sentience that could suffer in the first place?
Jacob Cooper
Yes there is. Omnipotent doesn't mean forcefully causing everything to happen.
It means have the greatest absolute uncomromisable power.
Jaxson Bennett
The wages of sin is death (nonexistence). Read your Bible and quit listening to Christians tell you what is in the Bible. Dante made that stuff up and Christianity adopted it. The wicked are burned up in the end. They cease to exist after they are punished. They are not punished eternally, except for potentially the devil. I can defend this with Scripture if you want. But I assure you the "eternal place of torment" is not described in the Scriptures.
Luke King
To bring about a greater good. Every piece of suffering has a purpose. As the video stated, we aren't living in the Garden of Eden anymore. Suffering makes us stronger.
Gavin Wilson
Correction, eternal damnation is the default setting! Only through Christ can we be saved.
It is not a question of; "Will God damn me? (this would also be incorrect, we damn ourselves), but the question is, "Will God save me?", and the answer is yes.... if we ask for it. And mean it.
Jonathan Howard
I understand what you're trying to get at, but consider that you are looking at this through the lens of human needs / desires.
My question revolves around why would a benevolent creator even create the human paradigm in the first place? The very idea of individual consciousness that can experience suffering, then give them an obscure "option" during their lifetime of believing the correct thing, otherwise that consciousness gets to experience eternal suffering.
Y THO?
Brayden Perez
In fact, the righteous live in the fire. The fire only consumes the wicked. This is confirmed in Isaiah, and Zechariah and Revelation. Think of Shadrak Meshak and Abendego not being consumed by the fire.
Jaxson Harris
I think it is more important to ask how a deity could be benevolent is there is nothing to be benevolent to... hmmmmm
Alexander Cox
A greater good? What greater good could possibly be good enough to justify eternal suffering? Why would God need to create sentient individuals and then sort them into binary categories to bring about a "greater good"? Could he not just create that "greater good" some other way, instantly, since he's omnipotent?
David Cooper
read my above posts, fuckboy
God is all knowing, omnipotent. he has no real need to create anything, everything is already perfect as it is.
as everything is already perfect, the only thing left to create is imperfection.
PS Heaven and Hell is a crock of shit.by nature nobody could know what happens after death. God however is very, very, very very real. despite all the shiftiness, life is absolutely amazing and I am so grateful I got to experience. I can't imagine what God has planned next but I am sure it is great
Isaiah Kelly
That's his argument though. The omnipotent god ALLOWS the suffering, because he could stop it with his omnipotence if he wanted to.
It's like watching and old woman be beaten to death by some teenagers when you could run in and help.
Liam Edwards
Personifications were metaphoric, Worship of false gods over Him is likely to get you punished by Him who is sometimes in modern language referred to as the harsh mistress of reality.
That which allows anything to be at all is what defines right and can't be wrong. Human standards do not apply to the arbiter of logic.
>why it is compassionate, loving, or logical to create sentience for the purpose of testing it, judging it, and then sentencing it to heaven or hell. We don't know the purpose, that's simply a metaphoric description of observations of reality as communicated by people with very limited access to the advanced concepts we take for granted today. Concepts that they created by pushing the boundaries of thought beyond what could be easily communicated.
This is a beautiful world that wouldn't be possible without suffering, we owe it all to the underlying order that is God who loved the idea of us enough to do all this so we could be here shitposting about Him.
Brayden Phillips
I don't like this at all! This seems so insane and PETTY to me that an omnipotent being would blame us for our own suffering, when he is the one who created the suffering and the consciousness to experience it in the first place.
And like some stockholm syndrome cucks we are supposed to beg his mercy and thank him for the opportunity to be saved from the hell he made, thank him for creating our consciousness that could experience that hell?
Dylan Carter
I deny the holy spirit. Go masturbate yourself to prostate climax with a crucifix.
Gavin Rogers
Christians btfo
Michael Moore
Show me a verse in the Bible that you think refers to hell. It is a BIG misunderstanding. The wages of sin is death, not eternal suffering in torment. The wicked are burned up and cease to exist. They are not in pain, they are just gone.
Luis Cruz
Why couldn't a deity create beings that don't experience pain and suffering, only love and such? Then love those. It doesn't seem to be like for a being to want to be benevolent, so it creates some beings, but it wants them to GODDAM WELL APPRECIATE HOW NICE HE IS, so he shows them how much things can suck, so you better worship me so things don't.
Help me out here I am not trolling. This really fucking bothers me.
Luke Flores
Okay, this is fascinating.
The idea of some kind of holy purifying fire as God's very existence (extreme light / love / unfathomableness) is pretty dope.
But what about the ones who experience the fire? What is the purpose? Are they cleansed eventually (eternity / time being limitations of our understanding in this plane), and then welcomed back like the prodigal son? Everything becomes one in the infinite ocean of God?
Because that makes more sense to me.
Like Jesus said "they know not what they do". How can you punish them eternally if they couldn't even see how awful they were until God showed them after they die?
Ian Richardson
Show me a verse that refers to hell and I will show you why you are misunderstanding that verse. The wages of sin is death, which is being burned up, not eternal torment. The Devil may be torment for all eternity (because he has eternal life) but the wicked are not immortal. They experience the second DEATH.
Camden Cooper
It's not just dope brother, it is SCRIPTURAL. It is what is in the Bible and supported by Scripture! Hell as a place of eternal torment is a lie. It is a pagan idea interjected into Christianity that is false.
James Parker
Allowing is not equivalent to causing.
Vengeance is His.
David Perry
Consider this for a second, People love to say "well if your a christian how come you still sin?" "you can go to hell for that" I love when people trip up because it gives me the chance to correct there ignorant misunderstandings of the Bible. I laugh and ask them if they have read the bible. They will typically say "yes", i tell them well then you obviously did not understand it. If you are a christian and you sin you will not go to hell for it, you will go for other things though. One of those things is not believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. Maby people are missing the point but Jesus died for those sins and all sin after so you wont go to hell for the sins my friend, Those have been paid for. Now if you do not believe on the one who paid that debt then yes, you will go to hell,The gift of salvation is just that, a gift so if you do not believe in the one who made that gift possible then you do not deserve to receive it. you will go to hell. Hell is not for sinners, it is for non believers. Book of Romans-for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. So basic logic will say you can't not become something you were born as.
The reason you are having so many issues is because you have been approaching this with false information based on data which has not been calculated correctly.
It is our fault.
Cooper Bennett
>I deny the holy spirit And that is why your entire society is dying and your ideas and will with it.
It's not about God being cruel it's about us observing the rules clearly set and following them instead of chimping out about "fairness" or whatever.
Isaac Gray
" He answered and said, “But I see four men unbound, walking in the midst of the fire, and they are not hurt; and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods.”" - Daniel 3:25
This is just a prelude to what "being int he spirit" will be like in Heaven. This is why Jesus has to return with the Father. The Father brings FIRE and this consumes all wickedness and only the righteous remain.
Charles Martinez
Why don't you have a child, be really nice for a day then shoot him in the head? that way it wouldn't experience any suffering, only love.
PS the root of love is suffering. think about why you love the people you do.
Kevin Bennett
Orthodox view of Hell is that we all experience God in the end, but if you haven't been a faithful Christian then His presence would be hell, but for the one who has been renewed in Christie is heaven.
Landon Peterson
No where in the post you responded to did I mention Hell.
Dylan Clark
If the second death is non-existence, I really don't see how that is a bad thing.
It would be like being in a deep sleep. No time, no consciousness. Seems pretty comfy desu.
Of course, if the deity has a pathway for the interested to keep existing in some kind of paradise, more to him and his followers.
Am I evil if I would be fine with either?
Jaxon Baker
That IS how he created us my man.
Just as Christ is the perfect reflection of God as man on earth, we are now the reflection of the corruption that comes from being separated from God.
Joseph Howard
If you need religion to behave yourself and avoid violating the rights of others then pray away. Man has existed far longer than any modern religion. If you accept evolution then you should realize that man will evolve into a new species which will no longer be "man", life will outlive religion. If you are familiar with history you know that the same religions have passed through generations and cultures so many times that the tennants and interpretations of every facet of a religion have been reinterpreted a hundred times over. When hegemonic push invalidates a facet of religion the authorities of that religion simply reinterpret or disregard that facet to comply with the hegemonic pressure. The fact that we evolve from physical and environmental pressures, governed by the laws of physics deduces that there is life other than man everywhere in the universe. Religion is ultimately a method of satisifying people's uncomfortability with reality, the fact they are not the center of the universe, the truth that man is cosmically insignificant, he has and will only exist for the blink of an eye. In this phenomenon, religion creates gods according to what ppl learn as humans, man is always in the image of god (which actually means "god is in the image of man"), and a bunch of nonsensical explanations and rules that get changed over time to the point where the religions change in a span that is too great for your average dullard to grasp.
Christopher Butler
Here is another verse describing what will happen (all people need to do is STOP quoting man made doctrine and READ the Bible):
"For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
16Do you not know that youc are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 17If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple." - 1 Corinthians 3:11-17
Colton Jones
Kek didn't mean to type Christie (just Christ) but you get the idea
Michael Sanders
Exactly. Look at Sodom and Gamorrah. God poured burning sulfur onto the wicked. Burning sulfur creates sulfer dioxide which is an ANESTHETIC. The people did not burn, but were put to sleep and then consumed by fire. God does not like do punish people but He WILL punish the wicked. He does not enjoy it thought. He desires that none should perish.
Jason Rogers
Read some Thomas Aquinas and check out Bishop Robert Barron on the YouTube.
Alexander Ramirez
This is where the difference between "you" and your meat body comes in. Your meat will die but the ideas that made you who you are can live on. If everything you stand for is rejected by everyone or it leads to the destruction of your society your will dies with you or your society, your soul burned in the fires of hell.
Connor Green
>rights >no God >somehow I am obligated to act in a particular way because society says so >appealing to man
Heh, your world view is a joke. If there is no God I would do whatever the hell I wanted to. There is no obligation if I do not need to meet a judge who will issue a perfect righteous judgment in the end.
Hudson Long
Check this out. it will happen. Love you guys! (no homo). I wrestled with this question too but God is a good God. He is fair and just and righteous.
sorry did I misunderstand you? I apologize. I am just arguing that there is no place of eternal torment. Hell is a place where things are burned up and cease to exist. If I misunderstood you, sorry.
Lucas Carter
By the way this is super interesting. Have you read the book 'Destination: Void', and its sequel 'The Jesus Incident', by Frank Herbert? It explores the idea of man creating itself through its technology.
This idea, God eventually loving / healing / taking back all his children, makes the most sense to me, and seems the most loving.
It still doesn't answer the question of WHY, but that's just the human condition.
Maybe God doesn't want to ruin the punchline. I could believe that God is hilarious.
Isaiah Allen
>This seems so insane and PETTY to me that an omnipotent being would blame us for our own suffering Then it's probably not true.
Zachary Ramirez
Yes, and we are damned to the second death. Aware or not, being separated from God forever is a terrible thing.
Aaron Cox
If I knew the baby was going to die a horrible death from say cancer, and there was nothing we could do, you better fucking believe I would feel morally obligated to euthanize that being.
My question wasn't why doesn't he annihilate us before we experience any suffering, it is why create us if it's a possibility.
Likewise, if I knew every baby I had would die a painful horrible death, or be severely retarded, I would not have children.
Lucas Rivera
Well the Scripture is clear, the wicked are punished and do not inherit the kingdom. I would like to tell you otherwise, but I am not wise like God is and His righteousness is not my righteousness. I can understand why evil must be burned up, along with the wicked people who practice it. Check out this video, you might like it:
Stop taking metaphors literally, OP, and maybe you'll learn how it can help you and your compatriots have a better life.
Josiah Foster
Maybe a parrot owner Sup Forumsack can answer this for me.
This is what has always bothered me about people with pets:
Why is it that people put birds in cages?
That seems so fucking cruel. Much of life is suffering as it is, but then to take your so-called beloved parrot and put them in a cage, seems sadistic beyond belief to me.
Why wouldn't the owner just open the cage and let their pet free? Wouldn't that be better for the pet?
God is the human, we are the parrot. We really can't know God's motives anymore than the parrot would know that if released it would have it's head ripped off by an eagle.
Levi Johnson
What is the image in the OP from?
Jason Hughes
Fair enough, by why even allow us to separate?
Juan Roberts
I have visited Children in a cancer ward and they are the brightest most beautiful hopeful people I have ever met.
They know they are going to die and in knowing that they live truly, enjoying every moment.
Life is taken for granted, your "moral" obligation is not moral at all.
Go to a cancer ward some time, meet these children and learn how strong they are.
Evan Jackson
Well, existence vs nonexistence is a big part of this question and not to be taken lightly. A just God is not going to apply an infinite punishment on a person who is alive forever for a finite amount of sins in this life. More importantly, the Bible never said that people would be tormented for all eternity. The "eternal" part of death is true, but God is not vindictive. You are burned up if you don't believe and you are gone. It's not what I believe - it is what Scripture says.
Angel Ward
Emotions exist as chemical reactions to stimuli, God nor the bible deny this. If you existed in a Universe where they didn't exist, you wouldn't be able to appreciate that Universe.
I remember reading that hell is actually, "sheol" or rather the grave. So you just die, you are risen by evil during the resurrection against God. Only those in sheol who are faithful are resurrected by God in the final days of the Bible.
Jackson Rivera
It's a metaphor for how violating God's will (which is prosocial behavior, free from vice) fucks you over.
Jonathan Hill
Because then we would be slaves. Some people are perfectly comfortable being separated from Him, and in fact they want to be. They hate Him for whatever reason. God let's us be who we will ourselves to be.
Henry Taylor
Because free will basically.
Levi Foster
Holy fucking shit, are you serious?
You would just start raping and murdering if you didn't think God exists?
What the fuck. I live my life treating others as I want to be treated, simply because I have the ability to empathize, and I can logically deduce that living a life of violence and selfishness would ultimately be against my own self-interest as an organism (and this is wired into us, since we are a collective organism, and we would not exist today if we had not evolved to cooperate for mutual gain. My point is I think empathy and the urge to function in a society is part of our DNA).
If the only thing keeping you from going on a killing spree is your belief in God, that's fucked and you are a fucking bad person. Gas yourself.
Cameron Torres
you are very simple if your concept of rights is derived from religion. Can you even explain the logical order of that? You're admitting that you don't possess morality and that you derive restraint from being told what to do.
The way that rights work is: you exist, so you breathe. If someone else exists, they breathe too. If that someone else wants to stop your breathing, they may have the power to do so, but not the justification. Just as you have no right, the same is true of them, that's logical balance. That's the foundation of rights and everything derives from that logic and the production of value and property.
Like I said, I'm happy that ppl like you have religion, without it you would be a scourge to your fellow man.
Caleb Russell
I don't want to make claims as to what God's punishment will be or how long it will last.
I will only claim that whatever he decides is most just and most righteous.
Aaron Perry
God made us with the capacity to be in a loving relationship with Him
Love requires free will and an actual choice
You are free to turn your back on eternal life and loving relationship with your creator, you can do this consciously or through your actions
If you make that choice, you will be forever suffering because of your choose to separate yourself from the source of all goodness and love you'll be pretty sad.
It will be "everlasting" because in eternity-the timeless state-nothing changes
Also, God allows people to stay in that state because they hate Him, and being united with Him would be even worse than Hell for them, because they would experience His love as pain (because of their pride and hate towards God)
Finally, God knows what people's real motivations are. He knows that you don't really love Him, if you get a taste of what it's like to not have Him around, sustain all things constantly, and then you say "wait no come back, I like you now". That's not the kind of love that prepares you for participating in God's being like those who are united with Him do.
Matthew Cruz
Trips of Truth.
Don't attempt to Judge to creator of Judgement.
Nolan Ramirez
My younger brother died of bone cancer when he was 9. His love of life is one of the reasons I haven't killed myself (too selfish).
It is his suffering and death that caused me to lose my faith as a child.
Joseph Perez
you don't have to claim what God will do. God says what He will do in Scripture. The wicked experience a physical and then spiritual death (non-existence). Even the wicked are resurrected. But the righteous will not experience the spiritual death if we follow the messiah Yeshua.
Angel Barnes
That isn't exactly what I said, but I did say I would do whatever I wanted. What that entails doesn't matter in this moment. But yes it is ultimately an appeal to man and what "we" decide.
My concept of "rights" is that they don't exist without God. All of the founding fathers believed in God, though not all were Christians. Hence the term "God given rights.".
Lucas King
The belief that if you sin, you will face an eternity in hell is becoming more and more outdated in Christianity. Its came from a time when it was difficult to enforce the law on the populace, so the belief that if you sinned, you went to hell was designed to scare people into doing the right thing. However in the last few decades, as Christianity attempts to adapt to the modern era as more and more people denounce Christianity and turn towards atheism, there has been a greater focus on forgiving these sins through penance or reconciliation. This gives people multiple 'chances' to realise what they did wrong, and with God's help attempt to correct these wrongs.
Camden Hill
It wasn't the default setting before Adam's sin, but it is now...
Christopher White
and absolutely 100% agree God is just! He is certainly righteous and it is silly for anyone to think otherwise. The whole Bible, new and old testament, is God being merciful and righteous over and over and over. Same God throughout!
Robert Thompson
And his suffering is what bred his love for life. You cannot appreciate peace without knowing suffering.
Brody Rivera
What if a Christian answered "We don't know."?
Parker Ross
Also adding one more thing to this:
God is also Most Just and Most Righteous in addition to Most Loving so he gives justice to wrongdoers, which is actually a form of love (to those who were wronged, and to the wrongdoer themselves, it takes them out of an existence of defilement)
Gavin Ramirez
I see religion as a set of ideas whose goal is to create strong individuals and communities. So hell to me is a metaphor. Setting aside the element of suffering that plagues people who engage in destructive behavior, the consequences CAN be eternal, just ask the Swedish, who are about to disappear.
Telling people they're forgiven accomplishes nothing. They either repent - change their behavior - or suffer the consequences of their own choices.
