Sup Forums how worried should we be?

...

Meh, it doesn't mean anything, just let it get higher and higher forever
Eventually it'll be infinite

Very.

If the USA default on their debt, what is China and Japan doing to do? Nothing.

That being said the vast majority of the US debt is owned by its citizens

we have to pay interest on this shit

56% isn't what i'd call a vast majority

>2016
>Paying interest on government debt

Hahahahaha get a load of this faggot

What is 0% interest rates nigger

What are bonds

The golfer-in-chief took Cloward-Piven national.

Damn, I had no idea Japan owned almost as much of our debt as China.

paying interest on bonds is easy when their market value has fallen twice as much.

What is keeping us from going into some sort of hyper inflation. I thought the debt couldn't get any higher back in the mid 2000's

t. Not an economist

Negative interest rates will kill savings and crucify investment incentives. Retard.

There's no way the United States is ever going to be able to pay back over $20 trillion. Eventually we'll just default and hand over California as collateral.

money isnt real

Just write it off.

US national debt is 104% of our GDP, which isn't healthy (most economists advise against anything over 100% of GDP).

It could be worse though, China's debt is 228% of their GDP.

Try this one instead... US federal public debt as a percentage of GDP

>Paying more than 20 dollars for California.

Write it off what?

>228% of their GDP.

Wait. Who's actually getting rich off all this shit?

Not very. Value of the dollar is still extremely high despite the national debt.

I think you know.

The kikes, you stupid leaf. How many times must we tell you this.

>Le smiling Rothschild face.

That's called a hockey stick and it will eventually get a very long handle. Read "Bankruptcy 1995" by Rawlings or the findings of the Grace Commission put togethr by Reagan

Time for a currency reset. Is that shit actually really planned or just larping?

Not at all.

This, or alternatively control for inflation.

What would trigger hyperinflation in the US?

Where should I park my autismbux? I'm assuming gold because it's the meme of all time... not confident on other currencies because they're all pegged to the USD anyway

It's all one giant game we're playing. Rules can be broken, because it's not real to begin with. It's merely an concept to drive innovation, it's not supposed to be some everlasting system.

It's just a 20th century design.

Buy yuan

One of the first things Trump is going to do is tell the Chinese to let their currency float, whereupon it will shoot up 50% or so

LAFF AT FREEDUMBLANDERS ITT

Do you think you'll be able to get out of the country and want to have highly mobile assets to re-establish yourself somewhere else? Previous metals, diamonds, etc (or better yet, foreign accounts in the currency of the nation your expect to evac to).

Do you think you'll be stuck in a collapsed nation and have to ride it out? Ammunition, preserved foods, toilet paper, tools, kerosene, etc. Go to the library and do some reading from folks who lived through the disintegration of Yugoslavia.

user, all these big countries – they write off everything!

>not using log scale
sage

the debt means literally nothing and president obama actually lowered the deficit fucking leaf

>how worried should we be?

What is fiat money?

we owe the money to ourselves m8

brb taking out trillion dollar loan from myself in myself dollars

wew so rich right now

some user on Sup Forums some time ago mentioned the debt is actually somewhere around ~70 trillion because of all the shit thats not being counted

was i being trolled?

Who even know. It comes to a point where it doesn't make a difference.

our money is LITERALLY fucking debt, what the hell did you even expect?

24 trillion or 88 bazillion. It's all made up at this point

>itt people afraid of numbers because they appear arbitrarily large

Pay up Goy you owe 6000 Batrillion.

>half of our debt is ours and half of it isnt
then doesnt it all cancel out?

This.

The large scary number doesn't matter, as long as the USA's economy grows at a sufficient rate so that they can service the debt interest payments then it doesn't matter how large the debt gets.

As an economist, you should be extremely worried.

You don't even know what a write off is!

Don't worry about what you can't control

That's a very unlikely condition

I think what is even more IMMEDIATELY concerning to us is Quantitative Easing and the ridiculous money supply increase over the last decade.

That money is in the M0 base for now (basically, the banks are holding onto it), but once it starts filtering through after economic activity picks up we are going to see some serious fucking inflation. And if we don't, and the banks just keep stockpiling it, then wealth inequality will continue to severely grow. Its a lose lose, and its facing us right now.

>after economic activity picks up
hold your breath

You're right, its looking dim globally. But isn't that frightening as well? The fact that the fucking world is stagnating?

Well, based on this chart, not very, since it all seems to go away after 2020.

Or maybe that just means we should be very concerned.

most people don't really understand the difference between a trillion, billion, and million. Like the gravity of the difference.

Thank Kek we have Trump.

Off by 1, shiiiet

maybe frightening, but not unexpected
the world has been missing a zeitgeist, stagnant in plenty other ways than just simply economic.

If you're in US, EU and Japan then be very worried. It'll be a global event just like 2008 but worst.

Hasn't log scale been invented yet in Canada?
>muh scary graph because we display an exponential growth with linear axes

>the central bank owns 1/5th of the US debt

wtf that dodgy as

are they borrowing at like 0% interest or something?

2shady4me

Yeah, when Mr. Trump builds the wall, you'll see that hispanic percentage going flat. Projections based on current trends don't mean shit that far into the future.

It's only a matter of time. When it crumbles there will be wars and national boarders will become very fluid once more.

Yeah im sure they are gonna do as trump says

you're currently at 104.17% of GDP and you ain't got no world war going on... Something is gonna give

Breakdown:
Federal reserve doesn't count because they simply destroy any money paid back, that debt can simply be canceled out and added to the money supply. They also refund all interest payments less 6% which is paid to commercial banks as a dividend. This can be canceled too. The fed can be placed under treasury supervision at any time so that is a non-issue. The mutual/pension funds will take a haircut together, they're more or less 1 group. Other investors might be individuals/commercial interests, they'll also get a haircut. Foreigners can be fucked over and if they try to fuck back, the fed(under treasury supervision) can be forced to print money and fuck over gov bonds/money supply, making them basically worthless. This creates a crisis internationally since there'd be no real reserve currency but it's not as severe as everyone thinks. We've been through these crises for centuries.

stop using this meme please...

Might be higher/lower, those are projections of payments promised to retirees.

That doesn't work in the long run. It's been tried for centuries, the growth of debt is exponential, not linear.

That money printing was only a temporary effect. They pumped the M1(not m0) supply to try and cancel out the loss in m3 but because they bought bonds, the money is being destroyed. It was an unsustainable project and it delayed the inevitable adjustment. There's already been hundreds of billions taken from m1 because the bonds were paid in full(they bought mostly short-term bonds). This is just setting up another crisis because they didn't let the first one adjust properly.

Private debt is what's going to get them.

this is why chinese are buying up foreign real estate as part of a money laundering scheme to get money out of the country

they quadrupled their debt in less than a decade after the financial crisis by pumping trillions of dollars into corrupt and inefficient state owned corporations to desperately try to keep economic growth up

Prepare accordingly.

>Stock up on weapons, ammunition.
>Food, non-perishables such as honey. High sugar foods. White rice will last you a life time, cheap, easy to cook, stores well.
>Bonds, but the government won't pay you that until you're 80 or dead.
>Learn an indispensable skill.

Trump can't save us from this. Don't be on it.

US situation is not nearly as bad as much of Europe which also has slower growth and worse demographic problems in terms of aging and declining population, plus they don't control the world reserve currency and EU countries don't even have a national currency and can't inflate their way out of it.

can't wait, honestly.
let it happen already.

...No. Do you?

bhai it'll happen but we gonna get hit by it too. Hope we can weather the storm.

What he said. The rest of you are goldline-customer mentally challenged troglodytes.

>Hope we can weather the storm
need to learn how to grow a small farm.
shiet, need to have a small farm.
shiet need money to buy a piece of land.
shiet, modi took all my money.
shiet no one is willing to sell any land now.
fuck modi.

also, our local market is strong enough to take it well. we'll survive if nothing more.

kek
Or when the bill gets too high we just bail and make a new country called USA 2.

Not worried whatsoever. We have enough nukes to deal with any debt collectors.

Epic!

>make a new country
umm, not exactly.
when anything like this happens, the country break into pieces. see USSR.
as ar as usa is concerned, i imagine the south will secede. there will be a western country as well, with all the western states.
be fun to see them trying to get along afterwards though.

>le "debt is bad" meme

...

t. Donald Trump's actual policy

You autistic?

>the debt is supposed to grow exponentially
you guys didn't learn anything from the weimar republic

no im ID: oy4Axp/M

If debt doesn't matter then obama was a good president?

The US is fine.

Can someone explain me what it means when federal reserve owns 20% of debt?

yes

Please do sir

>trillions in debt
>economically stronger than the entirety of the EU
what are you on about? the US is the face of the earth, of course humanity won't let us fail.

It means they are profusely rubbing their hands.

Limiting the debate to "Public Debt" means ignoring intra-governmental debt. Basically, it assumes that all of the money which the government took out of the Social Security trust fund will never be repaid. Politically, the government will never be able to vote to cancel that debt.

In other words, you're sticking your head in the sand and pretending a huge chunk of the problem doesn't exist.

Who needs a write-off when you're swimming in money?

this is why it costs 1 million dollars to buy a shed in vancouver

Ok
Can someone explain me how much money is debted by people of america?

When the Federal Reserve wants to lower interest rates, it takes government debt from the banks and gives them cash. That's how the Fed acquires government debt.

The US government then pays the banks interest on that debt - meaning taxpayers pay the Fed - but the Fed returns most of that money after deducting a few billion to run its expenses and several billion more to pay interest on the money that the banks leave on deposit with the Federal Reserve.

At one point Ron Paul suggested that the debt held by the Federal Reserve could be canceled. The Fed could then raise the minimum amount it requires banks to keep on deposit in order to raise interest rates.

>The US government then pays the banks interest on that debt

I meant the US government (taxpayers) pay the Federal Reserve interest on the debt it holds.

No.
>Libya

Per capita (every man, woman, and child) Americans owe around $61,300.

Per taxpayer, it's about $166,700.

To put that in perspective, the US government collects about $27,600 per taxpayer every year.

this debt is why (((they))) say you need immigration. they need more people to join the pyramid scheme. without more people in the scheme there is nobody to take more loans and then theres no new money created to pay the interest rate on already existing loans