Red pill me on communism. Why was it so shitty? Why did it fail?

Red pill me on communism. Why was it so shitty? Why did it fail?

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Is this some kind of reverse psychology commie thread?

Sage.

You either trade in products or favors. Communism can only be corrupt.

that sounds like capitalism tho

Churchill said it best. This applies equally to communism.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

It's the politics of failure.

Communism only fails because true communism has never been tried

because people are lazy selfish pieces of shit that need incentives to work hard and do something productive

More importantly, we are under attack. Leftypol is raiding us and they have a mod on their side. I myself was banned for reporting their threads.

>it wasn't real communism
Every. Fucking. Time.

>t. the meme that never dies

>because people are lazy selfish pieces of shit that need incentives to work hard and do something productive
The incentives should be purely social. People should fear ostracisation, but never starvation.

There is a pro to communism: lots of dead communists.
Nothing killed more Russians and Chinese in the past century than communism.

Because communism relies entirely on going against human nature and giving all the power to the select gods of the government.. And no human can do communism right because it requires the leaders AND the people to be absolutely fucking perfect which is just not a real goal.. Maybe amongst robots or a great robotic leader communism could be achievable in the far future but as of now, with flawed humans, it will never ever be successful. It isn't even worth discussing since it is a pipe dream utopia that only benefits the leaders.. I find it funny that people complain about the 1 % in capatilism but in communism it's way fucking worse. What makes capatilism good and work is the middle class.

Take your average classroom, what do you think would happen if the professor announced that the grades of every student would be the average of the grades of everybody in the class.

think through what would inevitably happen, hint. it will not result in every student trying to do their best

Communism failed because it wasn't a "world historic" revolution that Marx was talking about but only isolated outbreaks like the October Revolution.

The revolution Marx was talking about won't happen until capitalism has created a global proletariat large enough to overthrow it everywhere at the same time.

tfw fascism has never been tried

Then don't report their threads, they are doing nothing wrong.

Facebook campus is a good example of utopic communism.

Because the ruling Administrators are totally separated from the working class and tend to lead good lives.

So they're insulated from the effects of their policies.

They dont care if millions of people starve, in fact they may deliberately do it to depopulate an area that they dont want people living in.

Also they tend to Require Obedience rather than having an open mind for New Ideas.

They set the stage and tone of things, they're not interested in creativity or people coming up with new scented toilet paper thats ultra soft on the anus.

dumbass, just keep replying as usual and fight them off, ive never reported any threads because I figure people will just make an ass of themselves and nobody will listen to them

What you're referring to as "human nature" is only the perception of human nature that you have under capitalism. Capitalism has taught you people are intrinsically a certain way, because it makes people that way. Obviously, it benefits capitalism to have you mistake that for human nature.

Right, like user-talk was doing nothing wrong? An outside group spamming and raiding is wrong and against the rules even.

They're even spamming on other boards. While I was banned I looked around and saw similar raids on boards as outlandish as Sup Forums and /cgl/.

I disagree with communism but I don't disagree with someone's right to disagree with me on that. The threads are not organic, they are artificially forced by an outside group for subversive reasons, using corrupt moderation to achieve this. That is something everyone should disagree with.

you're right desu

sort of like how there's no such thing as male and female except what we perceive there to be under patriarchy

I can't wait until me and my 19 year old socialist alternative friends overthrow the upper class (except my parents because I still love them)

No it isn't and that's idiotic. Since the beginning of time, the idea of sins, man being imperfect, power corrupting individuals, people acting in self interest, etc. Has always existed. Saying capatilism invented these things is absurd.

Why is anyone entitled to anything?

Why should the rest of society have to bear the burden of the lazy and incompetent?

Okay, so it's day one of your new communist utopia. The proletariat have "seized" the means of production from their oppressors, and now, comrade, you are left with two options:

1) Allow your fellow plebs to grab everything they believe is the fruit of their labor, and allow the remnants of society to descend into an orgy of violence and looting or
2) Quickly cobble together a bureaucracy to oversee the redistribution of wealth now freed from the hands of your "oppressors"

Let's say you pick 2, because the outcome of option 1 just ends with a new dictator rising from the ashes or getting annexed by one of your less enlightened neighbors. The new bureaucracy does what any collection of people with power does, they create rules for the redistribution that favor themselves above everyone else. And then communism fails.

It fails every time because it relies upon seizing the means of production. Means of production which were created by SOMEONE ELSE. However, the creators of means of production, after having been robbed, no longer produce any means of production to be seized. Communists always assume that means of production just EXIST, they didn't need to be created by anyone. Just there for the taking.

Isn't admitting your a mod/janitor a violation of the rules of the position that could have your position stripped?

Something something never been tried something

More importantly, why should you actively try to stop your best and brightest? 90% of all progress in the world is done by the top 10%

American schools are the same way, no kid left behind bullshit, which actually means "we don't care about kids doing well" It is a retarded way to think.

Isn't it capitalism and not communism that tells us we're entitled to everything?

Don't like your gender? Get a new one. Feel depressed? Go pay a shrink. Tired of the real world? Go play in a virtual reality. Capitalism is consuming every resource on the entire planet. That's entitlement.

it fails because true communism relies on voluntary participation and absolute altruism

both of which go against human nature and so cannot be implemented on a national scale.

the only solution is forced participation, which requires authoritarianism.

authoritarianism leads to multiple multiple problems, among them:
corruption
human rights violations
enormous bureaucratic overhead

eventual these things lead to the central government being unable to adapt and the society either collapses from external pressure, or internal rebellion

this is why commies argue true communism has never been tried, because they are right
true communism is impossible outside of small close nit communities

TL;DR communism->authoritarianism->failure

>Because the ruling Administrators are totally separated from the working class and tend to lead good lives.
>So they're insulated from the effects of their policies.
>They dont care if millions of people starve, in fact they may deliberately do it to depopulate an area that they dont want people living in.
>Also they tend to Require Obedience rather than having an open mind for New Ideas.
>They set the stage and tone of things, they're not interested in creativity or people coming up with new scented toilet paper thats ultra soft on the anus.
This sounds exactly like what's going on everywhere in the world though right now. State control was a mistake.

It's against the rules for a janitor.

Mods can do whatever the fuck they want, which makes it dangerous when they got bad.

this kills the commie fag

not an argument

Has anyone else heard people say:

>it's great in theory but in practice people mess it up

No, it's shit in theory and also shit in practice

It's shitty because it depends on people not being self interested at all.
It failed because people take advantage of the system. It's why there's so much corruption in the ex-soviet bloc.

It assumes that man cannot strive to be better than others and must wallow in the filth of the majority.

One of the biggest forces that pushed us into modernity outside of the industrial revolution was the philosophy of the "ubermensch" and the "enlightened man". From existentialists and realists to idealists and absurdists, it was an agreed apon principle that the INDIVIDUAL had a power that could not be subdued by the COMMUNAL. These philosophies all agreed that seeking to satisfy the individual was better for not only the individual's well being, but for the world's well being.

Think of it objectively: what better way to solve a problem of the gestalt than to fix every single unit that forms that gestalt?

Actual communism is utopian nonsense that requires everyone to voluntarily participate in society and work like dogs for other people. Protip: that's not how people work. In practice, communism results in authoritarian governments seizing the means of production and robbing the common people of their wealth.

Wheres Tannu Tuva? It was Stalin's puppet state between 1926-1944 until joining RSFSR

It's the first thing someone would say with no real knowledge of it..I forget which Ayn rand book she describes this in the beginning and it hit hard.

>Red pill me on communism.
It's Jewish.

>Why was it so shitty?
It's Jewish

>Why did it fail?
It's Jewish.

>turned russia from a backwards agrarian economy where mass starvations were commonplace into an industrial powerhouse that would beat germany in ww2 in just 30 years
>eastern block locked horns with the west for 50 years despite the west having industrialized decades earlier and only failed when they tried to adopt capitalist practices in the 1980s
>shitty and failed
hahaha oh wow

It also requires the actual leaders to be perfect and god like and actually care about the people. But the thing is when you give a MAN that much fucking power they don't give a sht about anyone except their kin. This is why religion is so important, we are nothing but flawed men full of sin. We are nothing compared to god and we cannot act like we have all the solutions. Capatilism is flawed but its the best system.

This is also why communism requires abolishment of religion and the lessons and wisdom from it..communism is a means of control nothing more. Socialism is a means for communism.

Not only that but they become detached from reality because they no longer have to live among common people.

This. Communism relies on forced Altruism and the belief that this forced altruism through government controlled "angels" will bend Man to their will. Which is despotism last time I checked, and this despotism is where people rise and get pissed. Hence the reason why National-Socialism is retarted as well.

Communism is a political socioeconomic philosphy that wants to abolish social class, money, private property, markets, and governments beyond absolute democracy. The workers own their means of production, and everyone lives according to their needs. The problem was this system paints people as more idealistic than they deserve credit; some people want more than others, but communism doesn't care about wants. Additionally, communism desires to exist by the birth of a socialist revolution, where a group of radicals rise up to overthrow the state and establish socialism. Every time a socialist revolution has happened, a totalitarian state came in power as some communists tried implementing socialism by initially installing a dictatorship as a temporary government that the dictator would then relinquish his powers, but this only ever proved disasterous. Another issue was the wealth of differing opinions of how to establish or run a communist society. Some believed in an emphasis of workers forming large unions of syndicates and federations, but this sounds akin to capitalism-these are the syndicalists. Others disagree with property, stressing there should exist personal property, and define the classes that exist because of the state, and find that the socialist revolution ends when capitalism is gone-these are the anarchists. The Marxists are the orthodox communists who want the ideals of Karl Marx, which where described in my initial statement. The Marxist-Leninists also interpret communism differently, altering "to each according to his need, to each according to his worth" to "to each according to his work, to each according to his worth." The Leninists reinterpreted the communist revolution aspect of counterrevolutionary forces trying to regain capitalism as a necessity to an absolute state. This showed us the Soviet Union, North Korea, China, Laos, and Vietnam. (Cont'd)

Central Planning only works in video games.

Communism promotes laziness and selfishness among the people. People get ahead by sucking State dick rather than through hard work and personal merit. Corruption runs rampant as a result.

Capitalism is actually saving the planet if done right. If the government stopped leasing lands to businesses then we would have more trees. If the government sold land like private property these businesses that deal with tree-cutting for uses such as paper, tables, etc would rely on the market instead of just cutting a shit load since they are on a lease. Capitalism is the breeding ground for choice without government regulation. Some people save their money on depression and some people BUY shrinks with their own cash, depending on the situation. Individuals are different

Don't like your gender? Get shot.
Feel depressed? Get shot.
Tired of the real world? Get shot.

You are right. Communism is much better.

>t. stalin

>Capitalism promotes laziness and selfishness among the people. People get ahead by sucking corporate dick rather than through hard work and personal merit. Nepotism runs rampant as a result.

too many morons replying "it requires altruism"
even with everyone working balls to the wall and for everyone else's sake, communism still doesn't work because it can't perform proper economic calculation: you can't tell if economic actions are capital consumption (destroying productive capacity that people and the economy need) or capital accumulation.

Even Trotsky himself was against central planning. Look up the "economic calculation problem" for more info.

Communism has no money. Do you faggots even bother reading about communism before trying to "debunk" it?

that is to say:
even if everyone was super brilliant and worked hard for one another's needs, it would still fail.

fpbp

I live in a capitalist country and can count on one hand how many nights I've gone hungry. All that communism ever produces is starvation and death. That's all I need to know about communism. The typical argument from a red sympathizer is to deflect, and say "Well, CAPITALISM isn't perfect, either!," and yeah, no fucking shit, there's no such thing as a perfect system. But I'd rather live under a system that lets me eat and own stuff. Fuck off.

You must be thinking of Stalinism.

this
there is no money in communism and everything is owned by everyone

Money is a store of value and a measure of production. Replace the word money with production and you're golden.

but robots!

face it, 99% of people "debunking" communism don't even know what they're talking about, they're just repeating western propaganda from the coldwar era

not even a commie but jesus fuck Sup Forumslacks are ignorant bastards

(Cont'd)
The Trotskyists opposed Marxism-Leninism, who instead felt the world must be instead involved in perpetual revolution for the worker states of socialism. Stalinism came soon after, a philosophy wishing to exascerbate class relations, accelerate industrialization, and force communist ideals into place. Long story short, there are many kinds of communists, and no communist society has ever been achieved save for christian monks, friars, and brothers who still live under social heirarchy-an idea communism disagrees with. Communism is overall, infeasible, impossible, and highly exploitable. Every society wishing to impose communism has either established state capitalism and collapsed, or continues to exist in poverty and technological outdatedness.
Tl;dr communism is too unrealistic to actually work and power trippers keep exploiting it.

That's because they use food ration tickets

tell that to the people starving in Detroit.
>hurr I'm well off so the system is better
>who cares about others if I'm ok
>le everyone was starving in the ussr maymay
see

Centrally planned economies are less efficient, and those inefficiencies stack up until it becomes totally unworkable.

A good place to look at the work of unregulated capitalism is in the developing world, where it lays waste to everything, every water source, every natural resource, and people are factory slave labor who live in shanties.

>b-but muh Detroit

I like how you picked the city ran by socialists for the last 40 years.

lol it's pretty much 100% american blacks in that city
of course it's poor

>1 post by this ID

TL;DR: Tankies and Trots ruin everything

>not understanding regions of the united states either swing more towards left or right and Detroit swings left

So if communism has no money involved then how do you trade with foreign countries for goods and resources?

Your reply will probably be something along the lines of "that's why it has to be international!". So if you tards can admit that, then why can't you admit that one country implementing a communist system is completely retarded and sure to end up in failure and death (soviet union).

like china, look at how fucked they are with their central planning. their economy is on the brink of collapse

>socialists
you don't even know what you're talking about you dunce

The whole idea revolves around attempting to blur the lines of truth and do away with everything that makes us human, it defies all logic, and all arguments are emotional ones that always come from lib tards ant unis.

>there is no money in communism and everything is owned by everyone

So, it's gayism then? Sure sounds like it, let me borrow your asshole for a minute, I need to fuck something!

>they're leftists within the narrow political spectrum in america and within the federal framework and one of the most capitalist systems in the world
>HURR GOMMUNISM

Sources? Or at least name those countries.

Actually NAFTA is what devastated Detroit.

>Sup Forums should be neutral territory
Who the fuck do these niggers think they are?
Must be the communist mindset

> said the 19 year old college student.

Have you been to the Philippines?

Communism just basically is "give me proof"

"W-well first we need more power goy, I mean c-comrade!"

>What is Communism?
A stateless, classless society.

>What is Socialism?
A transitional system between Capitalism and Communism, characterized by revolutionary govt and wage retention.

>What is Capitalism?
An economic system characterized by the private ownership of property and subsequent exploitation of labor.

>Why is Communism an almost certain inevitability?
As technology and society progresses, those who subsist on their labor will find themselves without work and coin. Their numbers will grow until eventually the abolishment of private property necessitates their survival.

>What went wrong with 20th century 'Communism'?
Contrary to his image, Karl Marx saw benefits and a necessity to Capitalism, while still acknowledging it's flaws and fleeting nature. To him, Society must endure Capitalism, just as a toddler must endure adolescence on it's path to adulthood.

Decades after his death, Vladimir Lenin would rise to power and weigh in upon Marx's ideas. Lenin rejected the notion that Feudal Russia must undergo Capitalist revolution before attaining Capitalism. The Soviets quickly learned that their Feudal development was insufficient in produce and supplying the needs of a Socialist society. And so began decades of state-sponsored Capitalism, in a desperate game of catch up.

There is much debate about this, with some arguing that Russia's premature attempt at Socialism accelerated the stage of Capitalism, with others asking at what cost? Regardless, Lenin's views and actions spread like wildfire across the globe, influencing Feudal and agrarian society's across the globe to prematurely campaign for a Socialist society that was well beyond their reach.

I end this post with some light reading material, maybe you've heard of the author: monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/

Nah, I just fucking live in Michigan, and you live overseas in a Europoor shithole.

Lol, stuff it up your ass, retard. You pinkos all do the same shit when you can't refute a point.
>But CAPITALISM
>You're ignorant!
>HAHA I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I

Kek, just stop. And for posterity's sake, referring to your own post as some kind of substitute for an actual point is generally frowned down upon here, newfriend.

>I know I'll just put a wall of text in between all these arguments

Go fuck yourself

>You pinkos all do the same shit when you can't refute a point.
just like you're doing right now?
dumbass

This really shows the communist mindset. There's not a single fucking thing on Sup Forums that states that Sup Forums should be "neutral territory"
But they decide on their own that Sup Forums in some twisted fucked up way belongs to them so they take it upon themselves to turn this place into something it isn't.
Fuck them, I hope they get thrown out of the business side of a helicopter

I thought this didn't get posted???

What the fuck is with all the commie posting lately?

You cannot have classless societies. Hierarchy is something that naturally happens no matter what. voluntary hierarchy is the best type of hierarchy.

also, how are you going to have a stateless society? No government?

Main points

>Evolution is real, meaning there are good and bad examples of humans
>AKA humans are naturally hierarchical
>AKA class systems naturally form
>AKA equality doesn't exist, only fairness can

>Communism seeks to destroy class structure and make everyone equal
>when this "happens" it just creates a peasant class where everyone is equally miserable, but it also creates a ruling class to enforce this unnatural order of equality

There you go.

You essentially create tyrannical totalitarianism from the promise of an absence of government and mutual ownership.

Didn't say they were commies, retard. They have higher taxes and a tougher economy, and like communist states, many are impoverished.

Why couldn't Socialism feed this family in the 21'st Century?

capitalism follows a path to profit where the best results are rewarded, this creates competition and in turn growth. Its corporatism that takes advantage of the working class, not capitalism

Communism thinks humans are behave inherently altruistic whereas capitalism doesn't deny evolution and realizes humans are self interested like every other life form on Earth

Go to gulag.