Dear Sup Forums whenever EU threads are brought up, it's mostly an amerifat who knows no more than me about it spewing garbage.
I want to know it from you, yuropoors. What are the prospects of EU breaking up? What does brexit, trump, italy referendum and austrian elections mean for the future of EU? How do you think french and german elections will play out? Please help a pooinloo understand your politics. kthnx.
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The leftist like it because it dilutes national identity and sovereignty
We need to flush it
Short term the EU will stay no matter what. Elections are pretty irrlevant for now. Any radical change can only be seen after 2020
FPBP
>captcha: select all tea
Europe was too powerful divided so they had to group everyone together to weaken Europe as a whole.
ussr 2.0
If a pro eu president is elected in US in 2020, does it mean the chances of eu breaking will reduce drastically?
Not really. Just like Trump didn't drastically increase the chances of the EU dissolving. It's just an indicator of people's ideas
>What are the prospects of EU breaking up?
Not immediately but over the long term the EU as an institution is going to be weakened. It's just not fit for the job and people recognize it. You can magnificently campaign by going against the EU.
>What does brexit, trump, italy referendum and austrian elections mean for the future of EU?
>Brexit
was kind of expected, honestly. Impact is less than you think.
>Trump
He hates the EU. And he won't hold these feelings back. This could actually turn out slightly positive for the EU. Especially if he reduces the US' NATO committment.
>Italy referendum
This has probably the bigget impact, as for now. Italy is (post Brexit) the 3rd largest economy, heavily indebted and now more politically unstable than in the past. If Italian banks go bust then the Euro is dead.
>Autrian election
Ah well. So close. A sigh of relief could be heard with the Europhiles but it's only a short term relief for them.
Realistically it's hard for Austria to Öxit. They are deeply intertwined with their neighbours.
>How do you think french and german elections will play out?
I fear less dramatic than necessary. If LePen gets in it is a big win.
The EU is the way it is because that is way Member States agreed for it to be, and everything is done with broad agreement from almost every state (even when this isn't legally necessary).
The EU institutions only have the power that the Member States give them, and they can do very little without the approval of the member states. The job of the EU is to implement the decisions in the areas where the Member States have decided to work together.
The EU isn't some massive bureaucracy, it's a tiny organisation (employs only like 30k people) with a tiny budget (1% of EU GDP) compared to Member State Governments (often 50% of their GDP).
The reason EU institutions are bureaucratic in character is because National Governments don't WANT it to be democratic because that would contest the legitimacy of national centric democracy.
You think national governments want to give away powers? Nobody wants to give up power. But generations of political parties from all different traditions in all different countries - whose goal is to get and hold power - have found when they got in office that the economic and political reality of the world have pushed them together. The main means by which Governments hold on to power is by managing the economy well - and they found that in order to do so they had to integrate.
European integration has generally deepened in response to crisis (since the financial crisis prominent EU politicians are being way more openly federalist than they were in the past). The Euro was a response to failure of the previous monetary system, and it was a response to the failure of the monetary system before that, etc.
The reason the Euro is half built (monetary but not fiscal union) is because States don't want to give up any more power than the have to, which leads to the next crisis, which requires more integration to fix, and so on.
Far from being anathema to a Europe of nation-states, the EU is the natural result of it.
Let's use your country as an example.
Imagine you're in a union with Pakistan and Bangladesh.
As the bigger nation, YOU have to pay for their expenses while THEY get to boss you around.
That's diplomacy within the EU.
Now imagine that in this same union, Pakis and Bangladeshi can freely move to India and form their own communities where eventually, because they're muslim, you cannot go unless you want your head cut off.
At the same time they will beg for subsidies up the arse and sideways for their little projects and deface the Taj Mahal if you refuse.
Meanwhile, your media and politicians will excuse it all, calling everyone who disagrees racist, xenophobic and bog-challenged.
The politicians of this India-Pakistan-Bangladesh union will then enforce measures that make life miserable for everybody and undermine your sovereignty.
That's the cultural problems of the EU.
I haven't even mentioned foreigners yet.
Now in this example, millions of Chinese refugees fleeing the communist gouvernment rush to India and beg for welfare. Because they get it all for free, they are not going to work. They have no incentive to.
You will have to supply housing, you will have to supply education, and you will have to supply all the money that this will require.
And if you DON'T do this, you're a fucking racist and need to be executed along with everyone else who dares speak up about it.
Also, there is no greater threat to your union than Indonesia, who's arming up against China but that's irrelevant India stronk, must consolidate union at everyone's expense.
That's foreign policy of the EU.
Again, I just used your country and your neighbours as an example.
Sad isn't it?
>What does brexit, trump, italy referendum and austrian elections mean
Brexit: brits don't like the EU
Trump: americans don't like Clinton
Italy: we didn't like the new constitution
Austria: they were scared of le evil nazi
Brexit is by far the most significant one, other than that there have been polls that show that the EU only exists because people in other countries aren't allowed to have a referendum, if we all had a say it would stop existing immediately
It's a good idea, but it's not a European union.
Niggers, arabs, gypsies will NEVER be European
>if we all had a say it would stop existing immediately
This.
We voted against the EU constitution, just like Ireland.
Our votes were ignored and the constitution shoved through in the form of the Lisbon treaty.
desu senpai i get the analogy here but pakistan and muslims were the ones who literally called for partition and creation of seperate nation for muslims. So that sentiment is wrongly represented here but i totally understand what you're trying to imply. thanks m8.
I see. Do you think LePen can make it?
>potato shilling for the EU
How novel.
The left hates it because it's too neoliberal, the right hates it because it's too socialist.
>REDPILL ME ON EU
The real redpill is that it's not as powerful and all-encompassing as people here will tell you it is. It's a complex political and economic union between 28 countries that is run by a mix of national governments, intergovernmental councils, bureaucrats appointed by national governments and directly-elected representatives - in declining order of power. Basically, national governments do 95% of the governing of their own countries and, collectively, most of the governing of the EU.
Because it's so complex, distant and poorly understood - as a union of 28 independent countries would tend to be - it's very easy thing for national governments to scapegoat for their failings. Hence why you get a lot of hate for it, and why the closest thing you get to a positive view of it among ordinary people is apathy.
>Ahmed hates European civilisation and values
How unsurprising.
The attempt to destroy all European nation states and create a supranational kike proxy like the US.
It even has an own kike-run central bank (ECB) which is like the Fed Reserve.
You're welcome
...
If EU isn't as powerful as people here make it out to be, then why does Sup Forums gets its jimmies rustled over it?
> Austrian election
not much, since the president is a nominal role here. Wait for the general elections
the EU will fail in the foreseeble future. Picture a community of, say, 5 rich people. These people pool their resources together and get a fair share of the profit this makes. This was the EU pre-2000. Now picture one of the guys (the leader) saying "we have a lot of money already. We can take five poor guys into our community and teach them how to be rich". This was what happened when the EU extended to Poland, Romania are other economic shitholes.
That wasn't all though. Now the guy says "ok, we're now 5 rich guys and 5 poor guys, but other poor guys have heard of our project and want to join. Let's take even more poor people" (these are the potential EU candidates like Turkey, Albania and Ukraine). "That is still not enough though. We must also take people who aren't just poor, but outright druggie bums off the street and integrate them in our community "(rapefugees).
so now you have the original rich guys going broke trying to support this whole thing and getting angrier at their leader.
A number of reasons. Firstly, most of Sup Forums doesn't understand how it actually works or what it does, so it's fertile ground for bullshit to take root and rustle jimmies. Secondly, it's inherently internationalist in nature and Sup Forums likes nationalism. Thirdly, it's an easy scapegoat for failings at national level and it's often used as such, though in some countries more than others. Fourthly, its policy direction is very centrist as its decision-making process is consensus-based and 500 million people in 28 different countries mean you get quite a broad spectrum of politics represented. Centrism isn't very popular on Sup Forums.
I'm sure there are others, but that's my €0.02.
>Poo in loo calling us yuropoors
Don't bother learning desu. It's going away. It's like your BRICS - a phony union where they meet occasionally and try and look like they're strong and united, but everyone's always one hair's breadth away from chimping out on eachother.
It'll be replaced with something better. Something stronger.
Your Indian, you are part of the problem my firend.
>What are the prospects of EU breaking up?
Break up is inevitable. It's already falling apart at the seams.
By member states he means countries like Germany, France and Italy. No one else has a say. If someone objects, they just bully the country into submission and repeat the vote until everyone agrees.
that's not the only problem with the EU though. The EU consists of 2 executive branches.
1.The EU parliament that actually holds EU-wide elections but only has an advisory role
2.The EU Commission, that can actually propose and pass legislation. The EU commission is "elected" by the member states. Meaning to resist an unpopular proposal, every single of the 28 members states needs to have elected an EU-critical party into their country's top office. Since being against the EU is one of the biggest crimes against the establishment, the mathematical probability of this is almost 0.
you're*
EU is like a poker game.
Some fags sat down to play and realized the only way they were going to make any money was to get some bad players to join so they could fleece them.
Everybody that sits down realizes it is bad, but at that point they have lost so much that they must look for new players to join to recoup their losses
Open borders and mass migration are a radical leftist policy, not a centrist one.
You will see that the goal of the radical left has always been to normalize their insane policies and to present them as moderate and default, OP.
You dont actually think is bad for countries like netherlands and germany? we make money on the eastern european countries and shitholes like greece.
We only pay 27 million each year to europe, which is canceled out even by ONLY the absence of exchange rates.
Geography determines destiny Pajeet. The EU will break up because of internal and external geopolitical tensions. Each state within it will have slightly different factors pressing on it. Resources, defence, social factors, economy. Because these things can never be harmonised there will always be these tensions and the tensions will always eventually lead to splits and rifts. Even groups of states which are conquered by force and controlled with an iron grip often eventually break-down.
For the EU it is inevitable.
Southern Med countries will continue to be debtniggers with bonkers spending and borrowing and no tax being collected.
Nordics will continue to spend much more on social welfare than others.
Some countries will continue to be mainly importers while others are mostly exporters.
Leaders will come and go, but geography is constant, and all else flows from it.
No one makes money on Greece and other eastern shitholes, Boris, expect the top rich. The middle class is being ruined and depleted.
This post is full to the brim of bullshit.
>By member states he means countries like Germany, France and Italy. No one else has a say.
Unanimity or QMV is required, which requires more than three countries.
>If someone objects, they just bully the country into submission and repeat the vote until everyone agrees.
He's referring to the Irish Nice and Lisbon Treaty referenda. Firstly, the reason there was a vote in the first place is that ratification of those treaties required an amendment to the Irish constitutions and all amendments to our constitution require a referendum. Secondly, after the first Nice and Lisbon referenda were rejected, the treaties themselves were altered to allay our concerns and a different amendment was put forward for the "second" referenda - both of which passed.
The hurr durr eussr make u voat till u say yes meme needs to die.
>1.The EU parliament
>advisory role
EU law cannot be passed without the Parliament's approval, save in narrow circumstances.
>2.The EU Commission, that can actually propose and pass legislation.
In a very narrow set of circumstances. The vast majority of the time it requires the Council and Parliament's approval.
>The EU commission is "elected" by the member states.
And the Parliament and Council also vote on it.
>Meaning to resist an unpopular proposal, every single of the 28 members states needs to have elected an EU-critical party into their country's top office.
Nope, unanimity is required *for* a proposal to pass - not the other way round. Some areas only require Qualified Majority Voting, but that's not the same as what you said.
>Since being against the EU is one of the biggest crimes against the establishment, the mathematical probability of this is almost 0.
Who are Viktor Orban, Theresa May, Beata Szydlow, Nigel Farage, Pablo Iglesias, Beppe Grillo, Marine Le Pen, Geert Wilders or anyone else of the immensely popular eurosceptic demagogues throughout the EU right now?
>The EU institutions only have the power that the Member States give them
And member states have given way to much power to EU institutions already. Lisbon treaty makes it basically a federation without supranational foreign policy and army. And now they are building them...
Exports to Eastern Europe in Netherlands averaged 1303.56 EUR Million from 1996 until 2011, reaching an all time high of 2934.80 EUR Million in November of 2011
Last year, the value of exports to Greece amounted to 2.3 billion euros.
27 million isnt even 1 percent of that, and this is even counting shitholes. You know uniform currency is good for trade right?
memes
Free movement of labour is a capitalist, free trade policy, not a leftist one. Protectionism and restrictions on free movement of labour are the kind of features you see in communist countries, e.g. the USSR.
Since you're probably talking about immigration from the third world/refugees, may as well point out that that has nothing to do with the EU. The EU only mandates free movement of labour within the EU's borders. It doesn't grant that freedom to non-EU citizens. It's yet another area which the EU is being scapegoated for national government's failings (i.e. Angela Merkel's failings).
Ideally, more powers and funds would be given to Frontex so external EU borders can be secured but nah, eurosceptic cucks prefer to keep our external borders pourous by depriving the EU of necessary powers so that they can complain about its inadequacies more.
Look at the flag Pajeet, it's just like yours, a giant anus with hemorrhoids...
>Free movement of labour is a capitalist, free trade policy
False. And even that implies that every migrant is employed when in reality the majority isn't.
So stupid when someone tries to defend EU. EU's goal is to abolish european nations and peoples and create artificial supranational identity.
''why should there not be a European group which could give a sense of enlarged patriotism and common citizenship'' -Churchill
''The Prize is awarded annually to projects undertaken by young people which foster understanding, promote the development of a shared sense of European identity, and offer practical examples of Europeans living together as one community.'' europarl.org.uk
This kind of artificial identity creation resembles me from Soviet union:
''The New Soviet man or New Soviet person (Russian: нoвый coвeтcкий чeлoвeк novy sovetsky chelovek), as postulated by the ideologists of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, was an archetype of a person with certain qualities that were said to be emerging as dominant among all citizens of the Soviet Union, irrespective of the country's cultural, ethnic, and linguistic diversity, creating a single Soviet people, Soviet nation.'' en.wikipedia.org
Just replace masculinity and communism with internationalism and liberal bullshitism and it fits like a glove.
EU's institutional goal is to replace Europe's nation states based political system with supranational federation. It is a common enemy for all independent and freedom loving peoples of Europe.
Even tho our country receives from EU more money than it sends I think leave referendum would have big chance for success.
The migrant crisis was real test of how things are, some eastern countries complained in the Brussels that they dont want to receive rapefugees as Germs wanted and that change in policy is needed and response was "fuck off, we decided, you joined EU so you have to follow the rules we make and you knew what you were getting into, here take xy rapefugs"
In theory we send money to EU, we get money from EU and built stuff for it and EU checks if deals is legit, in theory this couldve reduce the corruption in our politician ranks but didnt happen, instead cunts from EU joined in robbing the people's tax money in their private wallets.
We dont even pay with euros and we want to keep our currency.
Only thing we would like to keep is good trade deals and perhaps even free movement accross shengen area as long as milions of muslims are not at large in the area.
>eurosceptic
>cucks
Gave me a chuckle
Ignore the mick shills pajeet, they defend the EU because they get gibs and we absorb the brunt of immigration that would otherwise go to them. Their only problem is loss of sovereignty, and they never had much of that to begin with.
In the long run, the EU will destroy all of Europe, and that includes Ireland. It's just easier for them to ignore because they benefit in the short term.
>the EU will destroy all of Europe
Yes, as if nationalisms have not destroy Europe TWICE in just 50 years causing 2 WW and Sup Forums is just a shitwhole of nazis and nationalist wannabes. Man this place is full of kids or retarded adults that cant stand a fucking solid argument.
This.
And the italian parliament even placed in our constitution the fiscal compact, without any kind of votation in the two council chambers or a referendum.
One thing is nationalism, aka doing good things and protecting your economy or your borders, another is pushing for racism and inequality for the ethnic minorities.
btw same person, my internet today is shitty.
Multinational empires and federations create wars just as much as nation states. Nationalism has created Finland and united our people against multinational Soviet empire in two wars. Nationalism liberated our people from foreign oppressors and has been only a positive thing to Finland.
Supranational institutions didn't ensure peace in Balkans...
The European Central Bank are propping up the euro with €20 BILLION A WEEK
This with UK a full paying member and 10 years after the crash.
They're fucked
This euromadness is fucking stupid. Our citizens' initiative about having a referendum just got refused by bureaucrats. They said it was about ''international agreement'' so it cannot be addressed with citizens' initiative. Fucking bullshit.
About EMU €-membership
great idea, worst possible execution imagineable of said idea
> Redpill me on the EU
Easy. It's a protection racket. A number of ambitionless, unsuccessful and all around worthless countries whose GDP is about a monthly wage here decided to band together and shield their national markets against better, more efficient and more enterprising competitors. To finance their racket, they demand tariffs from outsiders to acces the market and put regulations in place that favor the big conglomerates inside it. It's a cesspool of monopolies and creates the forseeable problems such meddling causes. This worked fine in the beginning, because their industry and skills were top notch. Over time however, other countries caught up.
Now the EU is an asylum home run by the inmates: Stagnating and declining economically, it is ruled by an elite whose only amition is to secure itself more power. People are loosing their wealth and turn to their government, which in turn is giving rights and duties away to the EU. The EU is staffed with metropolitan elitists who concern themselves more with feeding refugees and planning their next holiday in the EU than anything else. It's a shitshow bound to collapse, but before it does, it will waste all the wealth, human capital and scientific progress of the last 1500 years.
The founding father of European Union had this to say:
>The man of the future will be of mixed race. Today's races and classes will gradually disappear owing to the vanishing of space, time, and prejudice. The Eurasian-Negroid race of the future, similar in its appearance to the Ancient Egyptians, will replace the diversity of peoples with a diversity of individuals. ...
>Instead of destroying European Jewry, Europe, against its own will, refined and educated this people into a future leader-nation through this artificial selection process. No wonder that this people, that escaped Ghetto-Prison, developed into a spiritual nobility of Europe. Therefore a gracious Providence provided Europe with a new race of nobility by the Grace of Spirit. This happened at the moment when Europe's feudal aristocracy became dilapidated, and thanks to Jewish emancipation.
It's not just your countries who are affected. It's a scam.
Honestly think that the ECB is trying to go bankrupt whilst the UK is still tied in.
why would you limit immigration at all you fascist?
its shit, wants to import millions of niggers to wipe us out
In 1291 the Swiss decided to be independent of Germany. Over all this time, Swiss repelled attacks and invasions. But now, under threat of isolation, we were forced to join Shengen, to opt into their common market and to adopt their shitty regulation and policies. Belive me or not, despite not being in the EU, they want us to take the sandnigger quota. Anyway, before even the shitskins were a problem, we are being overrun by (white) eurotrash. They come here and lay their children, use our infrastructure, drive down wages and generally shit the place up. This is an attempt at population replacement and the sooner it collapses, the sooner we can kick the euroniggers and their shitskin variants out.