A Mary Sue is a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities
Other urls found in this thread:
imdb.com
twitter.com
A Mary Sue is a character in which the story and world bend to accommodate them, and not the other way around.
Kind of like the Welfare Tourists in Europe
Can anyone name any female protagonists that aren't Mary Sues? Katniss from HG is the only one I can think of.
ellen ripley before aliens 4
the only reason I don't agree with her character being a mary sue is because her skills didn't really manifest out of nowhere
she already had hand to hand fighting skills and kyle was already badly wounded by wookie and finn, and also he was holding back and not really trying to kill her but rather convert her to join him, and his lightsaber blew cock and barely worked
sigourney weaverr in alien
shut up fag
seh knows more about falcon than hans
fights dark jedi with 0 training
fuck off
I think I made a pretty good argument for why she could fight him
plus the force has always been a terrible plot device for being able to do things you shouldn't be able to
>i think
clearly you don't faggot.
That explains how she's the galaxy's greatest mechanic, an ace pilot, etc?
She can also talk wookie.
no
noyou didnt
you bit the vagina wars copout because even they couldnt have ti be that obvious or peolpe simply pan it
what you forget is she never picked up a lightsabre before
while this guy can stop laser blasts with force, put her alseep in previous scene, and is trained dark jedi
you are not reasonable at all
you are a shitbag
Its wookish
Even wounded he would be one of the most powerful fighters around
wow you did my work for me, adn better than me
you are are not a mary sue
bravo
>wookish
What a fucking nerd.
you can probably suck your own dick with all the contortions you made rationalizing that shit movie
I know thats probably neer been said in movie itself so not even correct to out nerd the bad nerd
I really hope Rogue One doesn't blow as hard as Awakens did. But deep down I know that it will.
A mary sue is a self insert with powers beyond everyone else that has no real flaws beyond things like "forgetful" or "clumsy". everyone loves them even if it goes against their character. is lusted after my main cast people who would have no reason to be so enthralled by the Mary Sue besides vanity of the writer.
It'll be worse
skitter from worm.
I'd say most female protagonists aren't Mary Sues. Mary Sue is a very specific type of badly written character (and the guy in the video didn't even know the male version, the Marty Stu).
It's a side effect of the way SJWs screech abotu writing minority characters. You only have enough screen time for X number of main characters, so unless it's a movie about a bunch of people in the same demographic (read: bicurious white girls), then SJW logic teaches us that each main character "represents" their demographic (read: whatever that character is/does is a perfect and complete representation of how the author views X demographic). Rey is the only (straight?) white female main character; thus, anything Rey does constitutes JJ Abrams' actual view of ALL straight white women. He knows the score, so he makes her perfect to appease the SJWs.
The downside of this from a storytelling perspective is obvious - either the story is about a very specific group (bicurious white girls) in order to give you enough characters to demonstrate different traits, limiting its mass market appeal, or you're constrained to write a story where only the straight white males have real and interesting flaws. Only the straight white males can face real struggles or the possibility of defeat, only they can grapple with contradictory ideas, only they can be faced with a challenge where the only choices are a lesser and greater defeat. And only straight white males can actually die (see: Poe), because otherwise you're "erasing" that demographic. Anyone else in that situation, by SJW logic, is an indicator of the author's bigotry. So now only straight white male characters can actually be interesting.
Actually gives me hope. Han Solo was the best part of the last movie. Luke Skywalker will likely be the best part of the new one. Just think of Rey and the others as scenery. Hell, Poe would have been a great character if he had actually died, and it might have given Finn's character arc some depth.
I fucked up and made a new thread instead of replying to this one.
I finally realised what's wrong with her face - she has a case of borderline feminist fishmouth
>Marty Stu
Sup Forums gave me the impression the male counterpart was gary stu.
God these fucking "Youtube personalities" are cringe-inducing faggots
Yes, but the real sin is that the writers never even attempt to give any kind of justification for their power. Superman isn't really a Marty Stu because he has an extensive backstory explaining that he's not human, he's an alien. He also has a crippling weakness, cryptonite. A Mary Sue is a bad character because the writer never bothers to make it believable that the character is this good, due to them having either no, or insufficient back story to explain why they are so amazing at everything.
Hello Kitty
Hrm, could be. It's a phrase that was coined a long time ago from Star Trek fan fiction, so I might be wrong.
Kill Bill chick was pretty good.
>The world bends around her
Sounds definition Mary Sue bro
More than that, any halfway decent Superman story isn't about him facing some pretend challenge. It's something that challenges his resolve, morals, or self-restraint.
Scientist chick that survives from Prometheus
but this is star wars. not cape comics.
they have never explained why the main hero is so talented.
when they did try to explain it the fans threw a fit(mediclorians)
Luke
>is able to fly a X wing well enough to survive the battle but was able to bring down the death star with it
>has never flown one before and never been in battle
Anikin
>8 year old boy who has never left his planet before knows how to drive and build Pod Racers(the only human to do so) well enough to beat the best people
>than is able to hop in a ship that he has never even seen before now and single handily turn the tide in a space battle
oh i hate that jew bitch
remi shor?
Sarah Connor in Terminator 2
uh luke is totored by obi and was already a great pilot
dunce!!
the young anakin is not star wars
just utter shit
>Luke
>>is able to fly a X wing well enough to survive the battle but was able to bring down the death star with it
>>has never flown one before and never been in battle
"I used to bull's-eye womp rats in my T-16 back home - Luke
He's had practice.
>Anikin
Natural aptitude toward mechanical tech isn't unusual. He has a faster reaction time because of his connection to the force.
Noob hero saving the day against the odds is normal for heroes journey tales.
Mary/gary stu is a whole different level.
>remi shor
Uh no this chick:
imdb.com
Sarah Connor from Terminator and Terminator 2 are really the only "strong female protagonist" that's believable and not a Mary Sue.
In Terminator 1 she's a hopeless fuckup, she comes in late for work, she fucks up on her job, she gets stood up on dates, like nothing in her life is really working out. She gets attacked and almost killed and is a hopeless damsel in distress the entire movie. She's weak, she can't fight, she's not particularly smart or crafty, and she's told that her son will save Humanity, and that she needs to become strong so that she can teach him. It's overwhelming pressure, and her own life is in jeopardy and all she can do is rely upon one man who has sworn to protect her, and then he dies. The terminator is near destroyed in the process and she's able to finish him off with the hydraulic press, but now she's alone, with a heavy burden, a burden nobody will believe, and she realizes she has to change.
She spends the next several years associating with paramilitaries and gun runners and war veterans, whoring herself around so she can learn survival and combat skills she'll need to teach John, physically training herself and mentally wrestling with the fact that she knows when the apocalypse is coming, it drives her crazy, she tries to stop this horrible future and gets arrested and committed, but even there she continues training and trying to find ways to help John, trying to escape.
So when T2 rolls around she's fucking ripped for a woman, and trained in weapons and hand to hand combat., and not only did the character train in canon, but the actress trained for the role. It's one of the only times I can believe a woman physically taking out men twice her weight in hand to hand combat. No CGI, no tricky camera angles, you see the way she moves and carries her weight into each hit and you believe she could kick their ass.
Why don't more actresses put as much effort into their heroine roles as Linda did?
Yeah and Ripley
Ridley Scott seems to write good characters
world of difference between a t16 in a desert with and a X wing in a space battle against battle harden Empire forces.
And Rey has the same excuse that Anikin does.
she has faster reactions and learns things faster because of the force connection.
it is all the same bullshit. you only are gettin pissy because she has a cunt. Star Wars has always had a hero with minimal explanation to their skills because it is a heroes tale not a cape origin comic.
Scientist chick in Prometheus is pretty close to Mary Sue
excellent analysis
i came to this
Nice
>you only are gettin pissy because she has a cunt.
which is the irony in your statement.
because if it was a male hero, feminists would be ripping into it for not being female.
Not really much difference and by the time he faced the empire he had force training from Obi Wan
Anakin I agree is a bit far fetched. You have to admit those episodes were utter shit anyway.
Rey had 0 training except for climbing around inside wrecked starships for salvage. Literally ZERO training and performed magic tricks better than the evil straight white racist male reeeeeeeeeeeeee
but she is not a Self insert with no flaws that everyone loves even the villains as soon as they meet her. if the movie was about how not only Finn but Kylo, Poe, and all other male characters were falling over them selves to get to her. while females characters constantly compliment her and are jealous but never do anything to her
"Mary sue" does not mean female character i dont like who is more than eye candy
This is a pretty good explanation. I never noticed how much she really changed between Terminator and Terminator 2. I need to watch the movies again thanks to you.
I agree. In some of the novels and games, they explain by saying the force allows you to see into the near future with high accuracy, thus it explains why force sensitive people seem to have amazing reflexes and luck. Shame they never really took the time in any of the movies to just, you know, explain something like that. I dunno, maybe they did and I just don't remember, but Star Wars movies aren't exactly praised for their stellar writing, ever.
This post should be a thread on Sup Forums. Warrants discussion. That being said I still can't think of any other believable strong women.
Kreia
and I mean, even in T2, she has vulnerabilities that make her not Mary Sue. Just SEEING Arnie sends her into a PTSD induced panic attack and she can't function, and she melts down and is unable to bring herself to kill Miles Dyson, and she has recurring nightmares that absolutely shake her to her core and make her do (or attempt to do) horrible things.. It's such a great character and great performance.
She actually did steroids to put on that muscle mass. Now that is a woman who is dedicated to her craft.
Nice.
it is heavily implied by her flash backs she has training.
and Lukes training was "Luke...put this helmet on and swing this sword around". Vader and Sheev were extreamly powerful users of the force and both were fully trained in the arts of the force and light saber fighting.
but luke kicks their ass.
perhaps they would.
but that does not excuse you people from acting like them.
Luke got his ass handed to him and he lost a hand to Vader the first time they fought.
It wasn't until he trained under Yoda that he was able to fight Vader.
Did Rey even get a fucking scar from Kylo?
saved.
Oh and your answer is every single actress these days is lazy as fuck and movie pre production is rushed.
Every female actress ever, unless her role was to backstab those loyal to her in her life or have men fight and die for her battles
its a shit character and mary sue that panders to feminism.
>it is heavily implied by her flash backs she has training.
Maybe, I could see that being a cause.
>but luke kicks their ass.
Did you watch the saber fight, Vader obviously let him win and Palpatine was weakened.
padme was infinitely more interesting than rey
It's pretty much canon(until they destroyed canon) that anakin was the greatest pilot that's ever lived
again mary sue does not mean"female character i dont like".
Starkiller is more of a Gary Stu.
>yea he is like totally stronger than everyone else and like is the apprentice of Vader. he is also super edgy and the hot blond english cunt falls for him because reasons.
interesting position. we understand straight white males so they can be more complex because we understand that these complexities are unique or at least don't apply to all straight white males. but not the same for non normal non males.
sounds plausible in an academic way
which is tragic, cos she was awful
carrie fisher as princess leia, now THERE we are talking
+1 karma upboat for your wonderful post.
Anikin was a destiny starchild, so of course he was good at everything. The whole point of his character was that he was this amazing lifeform created by the will of the force, and then the jedi order totally fucking ruined with their dogmatic cult bullshit.
Luke is a great pilot because it's in his blood.
Why did they have to continue raping the corpse of star wars? I could handle the second trilogy if I ignored Jar Jar but this is TOO FAR
They hired the literally who talentless nig just because he was the ugliest and most unmistakably african actor who tried out and made the villain some jewish pussy who has constant temper tantrums to show how childish his worldview is compared to the infallible heroes. Don't get me fucking started on Rey.
The only good part of the movie was when the big guy stormtrooper was smacking the fuck out of the negro with the bat.
fuck you JEW JEW ABRAHAM
Luke spent 2 movies being a complete fuckup except for one shot on the death star where he was first learning to feel the force, but he wasn't able to control it.
There is 4 years between the destruction of the Death Star and the events in Return of the Jedi. 4 years of training and meditating and growing stronger.
Rey went from being naive to the fact that she was force sensitive to mind controlling and beating a trained knight in a lightsaber duel in a matter of hours.
The starwars bitch is a mary sue
She literally gains powers just as she needs them and is a complete master of them instantly
>again mary sue does not mean"female character i dont like".
Yes.
Which is exactly the reason that Rey will become a modern stereotype of a Mary Sue in writing and film school.
>kyle
stopped reading right there
now maybe just MAYBE they are setting up things to be explained in the other movies. you know those whole flash back scenes and luke looking like he shat him self sorta point to that.
>that Ani excuse
it is complete shit.
>He did it because he is MAGIC
Rey did it because she is MAGIC.
A Mary Sue is someone inexplicably powerful and who gains the trust of people inexplicably fast.
>top tier mechanic, know the Falcon better than Han and Chewie do
>great fighter, despite no formal training
>instantly proficient with a lightsaber
>Chewbaca instantly loves her
>Han and Chewie ask her to join their decade spanning tight knit group after like two nights of knowing her
>that CGI alien thing immediately loves her
>great pilot, can fly the millennium falcon immediately
You literally could not write more of a Mary Sue if you tried.
also Luke didn't kick Vader's ass and definitely didn't beat Sheev.
Vader had the upper hand in the fight until he baited Luke into harnessing his anger, for a time Luke was tapping into the Dark Side of the Force. But after his father was beaten, he realizes that that's the path down the Dark Side and casts aside his weapon... he saw the fork in the road, which was the final test for him, to be tempted by the Dark Side, to feel how strong he could be if he used his anger and hate, and then rejecting it.
Then Sheev almost kills him and his father redeems himself.
It's like you haven't watched the Original Trilogy at all.
To be fair, Corellian freighters aren't exactly unique. The Millennium Falcon might be faster and more maneuverable, but that's like saying a riced-out '68 Charger is no longer a '68 Charger.
all the same shit happened to Luke.
but it is ok when Luke does it.
Not protagonist, but Ulysses from Fallout: New Vegas
>>that Ani excuse
what did ani do besides drive podracers around? he wasnt mind controlling people on a whim like the mary sue. It's not even comparable
Ani spent over a decade being trained by a Jedi Knight.
Ani before training could feel the Force in some instances (like reacting quickly in pod racing and sensing that Obi Wan was a Jedi upon first meeting him), but he had no control over it.
The difference between Anakin, Luke, and Rey is not that they can all feel the Force without training, but that Rey can CONTROL the Force without training.
What if the writers flip the script and Luke winds up killing EVERYBODY in the entire movie?!?
What if he's lost his mind?!? What if he just goes apeshit and destroys the galaxy?
Why? Because he fell in love with his sister and tried to fuck her, but she was having none of it. She saved proof of the confontation of a droid and sent it to a galaxy far, far away and banished Luke or she'd out him as a fucking weird motherfucker who wants to bang his sister.
He's been searching the galaxy ever since. But he's had enough.
>COMING TO THEATERS NEAR YOU 2019
Luke
>had piloting experience before, and even then had to get saved multiple times and rely on magic to get the job done
>shit with a lightsaber up until ROTJ
>force powers decent only after training with a top-tier master for a decent while
>get's BTFO at almost every opportunity
One could even go as far as to argue that Luke wasn't strong enough in the series, despite being supposably incredibly powerful in the EU.
>not evey one loves her
lolwat
>has flaws
name a meaningful flaw
The whole point of Luke, in fact the whole point of Star Wars was a classic hero's journey, where he starts out shit and grows as a character into being a hero. It takes time, mentors, and lots and lots of failures and hard lessons learned (like, losing a body part, losing a mentor, losing battles) along the way.
...
watch the movie.
it is heavily implied she has had training. those flash backs.
jumps in a star fighter that he has never seen before gets it out in to space turns off the auto pilot and then fights the invasion force who before he showed up was handing the republic troops their ass. beating them and blowing up their mothership defeating the blockade and winning the battle. being the only human EVER to Pod Race. even other force users were never able to handle it.
those arent the nails or skin of a woman that spent her entire life as a scavenger on a desert planet.
The irony of this k7nd of storytelling, from the perspective of yong girls who take this as a rolemodel (which is clearly the feminist desire)
Is it teaches young girls they can do anything they want, without facing adversity that is insurmountable, just cos the universe says so.
That success is automatic.
The ideal of "you are a woman, you can achieve anything you want" has been misrepresented as "you are a woman, you deserve anytning you want".
>all the same shit happened to Luke.
Luke NEVER repaired the Falcon. EVER
Luke trained with Ben Kenobi, who only took him up because his family was killed and home destroyed by Stormtroopers.
They paid Han and Chewy in the beginning and only became friends due to fighting together when the tractor beam caught them.
>"no"
I seem to remember he may have had ro make some repairs to his X-Wing after its recovery from the swamp.
I havent watched the trilogy in 15 yrs cos I want to see it fresh again oneday like i did as a kid, so im a bit rusty.
New Star Wars was absolute shit. Cringy. Awful. Episode 4 (A New Hope) remake, but made awful with the Mary Sue to end all fucking Mary Sues.
copy pasta this shit, its pretty good
Because whereas a guy can have character flaws and depth, a female lead now has to represent all women.
This.
The only people that can be critiqued are white males.
Everyone else is strong and courageous, because they aren't a white male.
This.
To their detriment, as stated here:
Imagine if Padme or Rey slaughtered an entire village or massacred a classfull of children as Anakin has.
Feminists would go into apoplectic fits.
She's also a Jew. They keep adding Jews into 'Hero' roles.
The director was forced to use her.
>letting Jewish numales direct films
Not even once