Just how much of a fuckfest was Stalingrad Sup Forums? How did the Soviets manage to hold out?
For me it holds this almost mythical status as being the perfect example of a clash of ideologies. When what was then an unstoppable fascist force met an immovable red object, resulting in an utter bloodbath.
Other urls found in this thread:
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
twitter.com
they just fielded more soldiers than bullets the germans had
*Puts on aviator glasses*
Deal viv it, Ivan.
Because the Russians where fighting for the existence of their country and the Germans for Glory.
On a bigger picture. On the personal level everyone fought to stay alive.
I've heard the PPSh was superior to any german gun at the time as well.
If the Romanians would've held their lines Stalingrad wouldn't have been such a disaster, maybe just another stalemate like winter of '41.
Yeah it's not that fantastical.
Stalingrad represented a deliberate and retarded breach of protocol for the German Blitzkrieg tactic.
Heavily defended cities like that were to be bypassed and isolated so that the defenders would just get starved out
The head-first offensive ordered by Hitler was blatantly opposite of this strategy and doomed to failure.
Ppsh is a cheap, easy to make bullet hose that was pretty much point and shoot and one of the bullets was bound to hit the target
Actually it looked pretty even to me: 1 million vs 1.1 million.
Germans are useless in urban figting. Thoose fancy tanks may be something on the endless steppes but in the streets they got blown to bits by hidden Russians with well-placed grenades. Also the ppsh-41 was superior to the mp40 in close quarter fighting.
Most of those were concentrated in the city though. In the north the troops were outnumbered 4:1.
Krauts are pussies. We broke them mentally.
youtube.com
Exactly. A doomed Ivan could destroy a german battalion by just running and spraying before taken out himself.
They would never be able to hold the flank, there guns were completely outdated by ww1 standards, their vechiles frozen, air cover frozen and lacking weapons to counter t-34s.
>average soviet citizend rekt the finest German troops
>western cities like Copenhagen or Paris did not fight with anything resembling this determination
West == cucks
picrelated - bomb they recently found in Volgograd while constructing new stadium
Same way Napoleon lost.
They got buttfucked by general Winter.
>For me it holds this almost mythical status as being the perfect example of a clash of ideologies.
Yeah that was pretty much what both Hitler and Stalin wanted, which is why this shit happened.
Lots of people died in horrible ways when they needn't have for propaganda purposes.
A single house held out longer than all of western europe in Stalingrad (Pavlovs house).
Don't forget the Katyusha's too.
>PPSh
>Katyushas
>T-34
It seems the Russians had the Germans beat in terms of rifles, artillery and tanks.
Pretty much. The red army from late 1942 onwards was a different force than the utter failure of ww2.
>Battalion pinned down by a single submachine gun
nice meme friend
Good leadership and more resources, and determination of Soviet soldier.
Plus Soviets had many little advantages, like for example superior clothing.
The fact Germans gave up on mobile operations and instead focused on slugging it out in urban warfare was a crucial mistake too. But on the other hand seizing Stalingrad wasn't as idiotic as many think. It just maybe wasn't worth it.
Also funny how modern Naziboo kids from places like USA or Norway talk shit about Soviets when in reality German troops respected them a lot as an opponent, a lot more than Western troops.
Generals told another story but as in WW1 many of them were just trying to salvage their reputation and dehumanize their opponent, hence "we were swarmed by billions of Soviets". Never happened nor are modern wars fought like that.
>late 1942 onwards was a different force than the utter failure of 1941
>“The street is no longer measured by meters but by corpses ... Stalingrad is no longer a town. By day it is an enormous cloud of burning, blinding smoke; it is a vast furnace lit by the reflection of the flames. And when night arrives, one of those scorching howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure.”
Wasn't your average Soviet fighter just some asian-looking hick from the middle of Siberia or Kazakhstan? I've hear stories of them being amazed by the infrastructure they encountered in Berlin and other German cities. Some didn't even know how to use taps.
Yep. By late 1943 gap between Germans and Soviets was quite diminished.
Though Soviet air-force didn't really catch on until late 1944, and even then it was in part because Luftwaffe dropped in quality.
So many idiots here who think Operation Unthinkable could've been pulled off literally don't know shit and rely on post-war propaganda about Soviets.
Soviets weren't in ideal situation in 1945 and LL did play a role but they would've conquered Europe if conflict ensued. At great cost no doubt, and not easily, but they were the best fighting force in the world at that time.
How did they hold out? The german mobil forces had to wait the slowmoving infantry. And some of the mobil forces was given new task to occupy the Moikop oilfields. Basicaly if there isnt new orders they would get Stalingrad without resistance.
By the way the utter bloodbath was because of the german ill military politics. When the russians made operation uranus, they stomped 3 army, Hungarian, Romanian and Italian. Behind these armies there wasnt significant german mobile unit reserves. But at first place in terms of the Hungarian army the germans promised to pass down some arty, at and heavy wepons, smg's mg's. Well they didnt provide the promised wepons. So we got roflstomped.
>yfw the war was lost
That's something I and I'm sure many other people always forget about. That Hungarians, Italians and Romanians fought at Stalingrad. You guys are like the forgotten armies and got wiped out super quick no?
Yeah both should've killed each other instead.
Well in some way they did only it took a long time for USSR to fall but the first period of their war with Germany was deadly for them.
Some were some weren't. Doesn't mean they didn't fight well.
USSR wasn't Russian Empire, by 1941 they had a big urban population.
To be frank it's not like Hungarians and Romanians were that motivated to fight in USSR, so far away from home. Official propaganda and reality on ground are two different things.
Germans fucked up by bombing the city to smithereens. How can you possibly invade a city with destroyed infrastructure and heavy cover all over the place.
If it really was a battle of annihilation like Hitler always said, he should have deployed Nerve gas to deplete defending forces, waited for it to clear, and then send in 1 million troops to clear up.
Either that or just cross the river and surround the city like Leningrad, fortify the surrounding areas and then wait for winter to come. No-one in that city would have survived the 1942-3 winter without supplies.
If the U.S. wasn't kike controlled they should have let Patton roll in there and finish the job. It would have saved millions of lives lost during the Cold War and possible nuclear annihilation.
Cite Hitlers secret conversation where he stated the Soviets had 35,000 tanks.
The Soviets had an overwhelming unification and it was the only thing that could match the Germans at the time.
Hitler would have easily won World War II if he stayed away from the Russians but he stated explicitly that it was an inevitability and he knew that at some point if he had ever had to fight Russia he would probably lose. And he did. I would say, the biggest loss in the invasion was Leningrad. The namesake itself was the representation of what the Soviets believed in, and so Stalin used his cult of personality to strengthen the incredible will of the soviet troops and bolstered them up against something nobody else could beat.
Millions died in the cold war? How tragic.
It would be even worse if you wouldn't have made that up.
They resisted bravely and ferociously then counter attacked intelligently and brilliantly, surrounding the German army in what became known as a "couldron". It was probably the ruskies greatest ever victory. Good for them.
The last acedemics to die of starvation were the biologists, they knew how to catch rats.
He's probably talking about Vietnam and all the other shenanigans but if he's talking about the great purge it's coming out of his ass.
Refer to Patton was a loudmouth overrated poster-boy. Not saying he was a bad general but he was kinda like Rommel, overrated as fuck by people who know very little about history and warfare.
There was literally no way for Western Allies to achieve a quick victory against 1945 Soviet army.
You had too few nukes in order for them to make an impact and disparity in numbers and troop quality (as well as the fact America is an ocean away) would make Soviet victory rather likely.
Plus there would be a huge morale issue, because Allied propaganda praised Stalin and Soviet since 1941. Then you tell your troops to shoot their former ally. It wouldn't go well.
>As a result of
Get the fuck out of here faggot.
However, I honestly believe that the war was lost the moment that the first t-34 was spotted on the battlefield.
The Germans went to war on the assumption that Russian tanks were pure horse shit. As soon as the Germans saw this tank, they must have known that they had completely underestimated the Russians.
Russia is so big, that the Germans could advance 2000 miles and T-34's could still be pumped out from Siberia. Also, those supply lines for the Germans are practically impossible logistically speaking.
Russia cannot be invaded. It is not possible.
>this is what delusional ameritards actually believe
It's too bad your (((leadership))) isn't as dumb as you.
That's something I and I'm sure many other people always forget about.
>Yes, but our army faced what the USA faced in north korea.
Basically russian winter, outnumbered,underweaponed, without warm winter clouths, without food. They even got fucked by our allies the germans sometimes.
Our troops fought and died with honor.
The soviets didn't kill millions?
The Chinese did either?
Are you a fucking retard?
>nerve gas
And then Soviets use it and maybe British too and gas German civilian population. There's a reason gas wasn't used.
>DELET THIS
>Ppsh is a cheap, easy to make bullet hose that was pretty much point and shoot and one of the bullets was bound to hit the target
It also happens to be a carbon-copy of the finnish "Suomi" submachinegun.
>the problem with the hungarian army, that they didnt had enough mobile units, and modern wepons. That army was the moost modern army in that time in the hungarian army. But it was only good to fight our neighbours.
Millions in the cold war? When? who? I swear I don't know what the fuck you are talking about?
Dare I say...
rude
That pic is kinda misleading because in Soviet military army was a corps-sized unit. But yeah Soviets did have a big advantage in numbers.
>The soviets didn't kill millions?
We didn't. And even if you (((believe))) we did it was before the Cold War.
> Stalin used his cult of personality to strengthen the incredible will of the soviet troops
Well if that's what you call having the officers walking behind the troops while going into battle to shoot deserters
>Russia
>Finest fighting force in the world
>Could take over the entirety of Europe
I'd have made fun of your country's shit-tier education, but I severely doubt your country has schools to even begin with.
Also what do the Chinese have to do with the cold war?
I think sverige meant to say Squad.
Are you referring to the commissars?
>At the time of the soviet counteroffensive
That 1.1 million are the ones that survive the suicide runs
Ironic that Russia copied one design from finland. But to this day a vast majority of finnish weapons are copies of russian design.
Actual better answers would be obtained at /his/
Russian tanks were pure horse shit. They just made more than the Germans expected and the Germans had more logistical problems than they expected. The Russians couldn't even get fucking welding right. As far as I know the only impressive aspect of the T-34 was its speed. Had the Germans ignored the south of the country, encircled Stalingrad like they did Kaliningrad and rushed Moscow they would have likely won, or if the Japanese had made a mad dash for Vladivostok early to cut off supplies from the US and divide Russian forces between two fronts.
You know, I had no clue there was even a history board. Welp, you learn something new everyday.
Literally the dumbest post ITT. Leave now and come back when you learn basic history.
The result of all the proxy wars not to mention coups in different countries supported by one or the other side are definitely a part of the Cold War. I don't know how many people died. Maybe millions I don't know. It was bloody that's what I need to know.
We had anti-Soviet insurgencies in Poland too during and after WWII so that's another modest couple thousands or so to add to it.
>having the officers walking behind the troops while going into battle to shoot deserters
That's the whole point of officers' sidearms, you know, in western armies as well.
How would they ignore the south?
Well if they had ignored actually taking city's they could have won?
You would piss your pants if you lived in a country as large as Russia and you and your drunk buddies were the last thing standing between the krauts and Moscow.
Same shit with Ak and sturmgewehr
>Just how much of a fuckfest was Stalingrad Sup Forums?
probably the biggest or one of the biggest in military history
>How did the Soviets manage to hold out?
the sacrifice for victory was way bigger than german. that's why soviets won.
germany never expirienced total war even if their propaganda machine told them.
soviets did.
hail total war
The Soviets only copied the drum magazine. The rest of the gun is entirely different. They use similar operating mechanisms but so did nearly every other SMG of the period. The actual design and manufacturing techniques are nothing alike, and the PPSh's greatest feature, the fact that it was fast and cheap to manufacture, has absolutely nothing to do with the Suomi.
If you want to talk about copies, you could say that both guns are just modified copies of the German MP18.
I'm well aware of Polish-Russian conflicts, my great-grandfather was Polish. But essentially what I was saying was not that the Great Purge didn't happen, but rather that it was heavily exaggerated. Notice how the Americans always keep it at a concise number of 6 million Jews whenever the Holocaust is mentioned, but whenever it's about the Great Purge, it stretches between 10 and 100 million. My point isn't really to say that the Soviets didn't do some awful shit to the countries that they took from the Nazis, but rather that nobody gives them enough credit, or that people try to make them look as bad as, if not worse than the Nazis.
Not really, the AK-47 is a significant improvement on the Sturmgewehr.
>but whenever it's about the Great Purge, it stretches between 10 and 100 million
700000 confirmed killed
more sent to gulags, millions.
you're an unsignificant improvement on a monkey
>How did the Soviets manage to hold out?
well, Stalin was smart enough to get the fuck out of the way in terms of battle plans and let his generals do their thing, unlike Hitler.
But it was mostly because while the Soviets held the Germans at the Volga Rivier, Zhukov was able to bring another force of Soviets from Moscow around the back and basically surround the Germans in the city from both sides and proceeded to butt fuck them.
The idea that the Russians won because they simply threw men into the meat grinder until the Germans ran out of bullets is retarded.
ak has less in common with stg-44 than ar-15. for some reason nobody notices how ar-15 is more stg-44 like than ak
not the point
efficiency is the name of the game. No one in charge of approving design is concerned where the inspiration came from, only how this new gear compares to its counterparts it is likely to see on the battlefield.
>The idea that the Russians won because they simply threw men into the meat grinder until the Germans ran out of bullets is retarded
in every lie here is some thruth. check out leningrad front battles, volhov front battles and rzhev. everything was so fucked up i literally was meat grinder for red army untill 1944 there
The main objection of the attack was Caucasian oil. Germans had to control Stalingrad. Otherwise they couldnt secure the oil.
Sturmgewehr what? Which one? That just means basically assault rifle.
Don't talk about stuff you nothing about.
Well people usualy associate Great Purge with simply Stalin going against fellow party members and army officers. Or people who played kulaks too convincingly in movies meh. Very interesting time.
Famine in Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan and also Polish operation of NKVD in 1937-38 is another topic.
Shit. Many danish officers carry swords :^)
Any other reaction would be inappropriate.
that and the fact that it was part of their goal to get at least the southern part of the A-A Line. People always forget that Hitler wasnt even trying to take the entire huge Russian landmass, but just up to that point
ive also watched videos from some german
he told me that gemans sent their best troops to the city and let italians and romanians secure the flanks. literally ran out of manpower for offensives after 1st winter. rate autism
youtube.com
youtube.com
Millions were sent to Gulags but under 1 million of those people actually died there.
The greatest crime ever commited by any communist country has to either be Pol Pot's genocide or what's going on in North Korea right now.
I do think that 700000 is a realistic consensus, but that presents itself in the same manner as the colonists discovering the Americas and killing off all of the natives. I don't genuinely believe that the majority of countries that were established before the USSR were exempt from horrendous death tolls that occurred as a result of political conflict.
Just know that 10-100 million in the great purge and the Great Leap Forward is what they teach kids in school over here. It's an absolutely ridiculous statistic and accusation and I blame Cold War America for creating lies aimed at Soviet russia.
this
How is an AR-15, made as a compromise between M2 carbine and M14 rifle, more like the StG-44 than the AK47 whose design was based directly on it?
It was more of a meat grinder really. No German soldier, except the SS cannon fodder, were really ardent fascicsts. It were young people who thought the higher ups knew what they were doing vs. many very angry and rightly hateful Russians. The result speaks for itself, they got butchered and packed into cattle wagons to siberia.
im not going to discuss it before ill findsome proofs of my statements, need to wait i will probably post something. ok?
you should understand that victims of "purge" were mostly civilians, not some "party, nkvd or military" like commies like to lie.same for people who spent dozens of years in gulags.
famines shouldnt be considered part of 'gratpurge' like you call it on the west. but they are still crimes against own population.
This. Patton was a fucking retard when it came to subjects other than war and was a brash loud mouth who ruined his career specifically because he was a loud mouth.
I always see edgy newfag naziboos from Sup Forums praising him because they think he was this crypto nazi, when in reality, he was just a dummy he knew nothing and cared nothing about politics, and he saw no real difference between the nazi party and the democrat and republican party.
>rifles look alike
>so one is based on the other, most definitely
You're a very special boy.
No, most of them weren't. The entirety of the Italian, Romanian and Hungarian armies never entered the city at all.
Anybody who knows guns will tell you that's not true at all.
Locking mechanisms are the most important and distinguishing design feature on an automatic or semi-auto weapon, and the AK's is completely different from the StG. Pretty much everything else on the AK had already been done with other guns long before the StG, too.
The only real similarities between the AK and StG are the one-piece bolt carrier/gas piston combo and the design of the gas tube, and both of those were designed late in the AK's development, early prototypes are totally different. The final designs of those parts might owe a lot to the StG, but it's not because they copied it, it's because Stalin brought some German engineers back to Russia and they probably worked on the final stages of AK development.
A lot of people here associate communism with genocide. Ridiculous numbers. I'm well aware of Stalin's paranoia, but what came after him was even worse. He killed the Bolsheviks and left Russia to idiots who destroyed the economy with the space race and the Cold War. What's happening today in the middle east is a direct result of the paranoia that existed between both the Russians and the Americans and it's nice to see us gathering together to put it to rest.
You are wrong on so many levels. The T34 was, for its time, very advanced: Sloped armor, speed, gigantic gun (in comparison), easy to produce with low skill workers and it was adapted for the battlefield it was used on. The Germans had huge troubles with it, and until the Tiger showed up, there was no real threat to the t34.
The japs did try to invade Russia and got slaugthered as well in 1939. So no, it wasn't a case of lazy japs. That scenario was impossible because the japs did not have the equipment or numbers to compete with the Russians. They didn't have any real tanks to speak of, only airplanes and good ships.