What's wrong with communism?

What's wrong with communism?

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something something jews

Humans are not capable of efficient economic control like that

Or selfless enough to not abuse absolute power

Never worked and always ends up killing millions of people

>Or selfless enough to not abuse absolute power

There is no government in communism...

Nothing lol 108 million killed who cares xd atheism rules

communism is not about killing people...

"a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs."

Dunno, try reading Che Guevara's thoughts about the Congo

Technological and human laziness due to inappropriate payout.

Why should I try to work on something groundbreaking that costs me my life when all I get from it is a stupid $5 medal?

It's not capitalism.

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>Humans are not capable of efficient economic control like that
How about humans aided by a bunch of computers?

>Or selfless enough to not abuse absolute power
How about we make the whole thing transparent and democratic?

That's Stalinism (and probably all of Leninism), so not representative of communism as a whole.

pls dont meme like that ur making me cry

>That's Stalinism
And yet, people in commie threads often defend Stalinism

So from here on out, let's be clear: even commies recognize Stalinism is fucking genocidal retardation. Line in the sand has been drawn

You have to go back.

>property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs
Who decides someone's needs? The central planning office?

I claim I need a flat screen TV and a gold plated swimming pool.
How do you know what someone's ability is when there's no competition?

It solves no problems that fascism or distributism hasn't solved already.

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OP is from leftypol, retard

/his/ actually has quite a few Sup Forumsacks but /lefty/fags are trying to corrupt it.

Communists. They all are retarded. And OP perfectly proves my point, spamming this thread all the time.

>muh hundred billion trillion

>computers

What do you even mean by that? Our government uses computers for a lot of things, it's still inefficient as fuck. Bureaucracy is naturally shit and only gets shittier with time as they add on more layers of it.

>transparent and democratic

An impossibility, the most democratic countries of today still have a variety of backdoor dealings and smoke and mirrors

The thing about centralizing power so much in the government, like in state communism, is that the most powerful cunt in the room always finds his way into it

It's natural order and makes the ideology wholly dangerous for a country

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn

Neural networks are still poorly understood. The only effective administration of an economy I could image would be automated, though. The problem is automation is still in its infant stages and, again, being developed by fallacious humans. Couple that with our cursory understanding of how economies work and taking such a theoretical approach could be disastrous for a large economy, even if the thought is compelling.

I could see the potential for human interference as well, deliberate. I'm of the mind that the less we allow ourselves to micromanage something the better (to a point). Humans are natural fuck ups and the more we gain control over something the more we fuck it up, whether it be through ineptitude or deliberate avarice.

Go back to plebit

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This. I see no reason to choose communism when there are just as valid and far more successful ideologies out there that solve the same problems, fascism and distribution being among them.

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Not enough dead Kulaks

In a capitalist society, 1% of the population is happy.

In a communist society, 0% of the population is happy.

The choice is yours.

>Some Communists defended Stalin so every Communist is pro-stalin
yeah okay

>Muh human nature
Classcucks all of you.

nice meme

>What do you even mean by that?
This Also, the fact that a lot of corporations are incredibly large today shows clearly that centralized bureaucracy has become very efficient in today's economy.

>An impossibility...
So we should centralize planning and decentralize power, if that makes sense. My advice: Learn to think a bit more like the Athenians. Be suspicious of all authority and randomly sample representation.

I don't think it was the same sort of neural network as those that recognize pictures, although I'm not an expert on the subject. It already seemed promising in the 70s, so should work fine today.

>The problem is automation is still in its infant stages and, again, being developed by fallacious humans. Couple that with our cursory understanding of how economies work and taking such a theoretical approach could be disastrous for a large economy, even if the thought is compelling.
It would be quite an engineering challenge, but I don't see what could go wrong if we transition gradually. Computer scientists are some of the most intelligent people around.

>I'm of the mind that the less we allow ourselves to micromanage something the better (to a point).
I agree, but I think humans should be constantly involved by (1.) democratically setting and revising constraints for the computer system, and (2.) improving the system in a sort of grand open source project.

Tell me, why should I accept communism? What's so unique about it? Why should I accept an ideology that's killed 100 million people after 49 failed attempts? Yes I know, you've never had a communist society, but you have had numerous attempts at a communist society, all of which have failed.

Now, why shouldn't I accept fascism? Or distributism? Two ideologies which have seen far greater success than communism, solves the same problems as communism, and have actually attainable goals.

Quite a lot. The notion of complete worker rights and equality just doesn't fit with nature.

Even in "primitive communism" like Marx speculates, there is hierarchy and certain members receive more than others.

One of the things that all humans try to do, when presented with some semblance of hope, is to push forward and try to achieve.

Capitalism is, in theory, something that provides hope and the platform for someone tor someone to achieve that hope.

Competition is something that drives creativity and the desire to improve compared to those around you.

I hear shit like the Soviet Union did a lot with workers and communism, but they were essentially acting capitalist on a global scale, competing with the west.

"cultural dialect" shit is meme. During the "Iron Ricebowl" days of China, people would show up to work with the papers, read, and work enough to not get murdered because there was no hope for advancement except if you had insane charisma or brown nosed to the point of getting metaphorical Ecoli.

Allowing markets to decide also ensures that the people are recieving what they need in accordance to the time they are in versus madates about what the government thinks the people should have.

Anarcho-communists don't understand human nature, the desire for them to control, and how hope drives the future.

Communism has no hope. It's bound to fail. Complacent stagnation is the best it can achieve.

>49 failed attempts
1 failed attempt and 48 attempts to copy that failed attempt.

>Now, why shouldn't I accept fascism? Or distributism?
I guess that's mostly based on feels for me. Deeply proud of European culture, but don't care about my nation or Christianity.

Nationalism does have two flaws, I feel. The first is the fact that the minorities are already here, and turning on them would only aggravate them and cause more terror attacks. The second is that we will need some transnational cooperation, and also can't have any significant competition, to deal with future crises. (transhumanism, climate change, humanitarian crises, potential wars...)

It would probably have been better if different cultures had kept their separate nations, but well, shit happens.

It's based on the oxymoron of 'equal individuals'. There is a consequence for trying to live a philosophical lie, ie the failure of communism pretty much everytime it's been tried.

>b-but that's not REAL communism
Every time

>worker self-management is against human nature

Not what I said. I said it didn't represent communism as a whole. It's like saying Pinochet doesn't represent capitalism as a whole.

It was a real attempt at lower stage communism.

There is no point conversing with this user. I tried to talk to him the other night, but he would put his head in the sand and talk in circles. Truly wasting your time on this one.

It is based on nonsensical ideas like "labor" having intrinsic value.

It never works when tried in practice, to such an extreme extent that the only defense its supporters can raise is "Well, it has obviously never been really tried in practice."

APOLOGIZE

>That's Stalinism (and probably all of Leninism), so not representative of communism as a whole.

Groovy. Then point to the example of Communism that was "real" communism and worked well.

Jews

My family was happy when they lived in the USSR so that makes it at leasr 0.00001%

>It was a real attempt at lower stage communism.

And was a disaster, right? The real attempt, as you concede, no take backs, was in the end a disaster.

Now, point to the other attempt that worked out great.

I'm not whoever you're talking about

anything would be better then Canada

>Even in "primitive communism" like Marx speculates, there is hierarchy and certain members receive more than others.
That's a fundamental misunderstanding of primitive communism. There certainly was a hierarchy, but everyone has equal access to their supplies. This was necessary to ensure social cohesion. The reason bonobos can perform cooperative tasks, and chimps can't.

I find Hayek's argument much more interesting. Communism is the political ideology most in tune with human nature, but the functioning of today's society is based exactly on us repressing our most basic instincts.

Not really. It's based on economic equality. Which is more in tune with human nature than capitalism. Like I said, even Hayek knew that.

What happened is that I told you my perspective on economic equality. You asked for examples of historic civilizations that lived by my account of it. I told you the time frame was incorrect, since I was talking about precivilizational societies, but nonetheless provided a real example to you. You silently dropped the point. When I wanted to go back to it, you claimed I was directing the conversation in circles.

There were plenty of attempts, just none that were allowed to exist by outside actors.

epic meme XD

Thats the stupid thing. How could they distribute resources via collectivism without any authority? Spain was closest to muh "true communism" but it still failed

Don't you ever fucking reply to me or my son again

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>Not really. It's based on economic equality. Which is more in tune with human nature than capitalism. Like I said, even Hayek knew that.
We've been through this. You can't have any kind of equality when individuality exists. They are mutally exclusive states of being. You and Hayek are manifesting the misunderstanding about the nature of equality. Now double-down on your broken ideology, cause if you admit for one second you might be incorrect, cracks begin to appear in your worldview. Next thing you know it crumbling around you and the despair that comes with knowing you've been wrong all this time will lead you to contimplate suicide.

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You literally just pointed out the reason why no one will ever be able to reach it, congratulations.
>Or selfless enough to not abuse absolute power
>assuming they're going to give away their oh so loved totalitarian socialist regime
Nice one tovarishch.

The extinction of the human race known as white people.

epic meme XD

You know you're autistic when you are trying to "colonize" a fucking anonymous shitposting board.

they did not deserve that

>You can't have any kind of equality when individuality exists.
That's incomprehensible. Don't we have equality before the law right now?

I believe economic equality is a prerequisite for developing more meaningful forms of individualism.

(Shit, he's on to us.)

>Don't we have equality before the law right now?
Jesus Christ, go find the archive from that other thread where I explained why we can't have equality under the law either. Like I said, you put your head in the sand and talk in circles. There is no point conversing with you, because you refuse to accept and integrate any kind of new information.

Because Communism as an ideology by Karl Marx's armchair anthropology is from the human understanding of primitive man from the 1800s, a time when people didn't know what primitive man was actually like and could only speculate.
Karl Marx believes that primitive man had no concept of ownership and reciprocity which is wrong, archeologists have found 9000 year old cities in Iran where people stored their personal goods for their own use, safe from the climate and other people.
Even older discovered graves had people stored with their personal belongings and had a strong lineage based tribalism where they strongly valued their own ancestors.

That enough makes the enntire argument for Communism wonky as fuck, you could also mention the fact that the Means of Production theory has been severely disproven even by other Marxists, barely any modern Marxists even dare to completely indulge in Marx's theories, only the hardcore Communists protect their pure ideology.

EVERYTHING.

It's an internationalist system, that's whats wrong with it but it's still better than capitalism. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a anclap and probably a kike.

>What's wrong with communism?
It doesn't work.

I am a computer scientist. Our neural networks can do things like play a video game with simple context, not efficiently manage something as incredibly complex as a large national economy.

I think the problem with people like you who fully love communism is that you're just meddlers. We have something decent right now, the United States economy is a wonder and has been for the last 50 years. You would try something radical with the potential to absolutely fuck us over just because it seems ideal. I don't want to be Venezuela or Cuba, I acknowledge the realist aspect of life.

What you think is ideal may not coalesce with reality.

DELET THIS

jews made communism...

And the (((Merchant))) class overthrew the aristocracy which lead to the rise of capitalism. What's your point?

Equality is not the ideal state of society.

Did some cursory reading. The neural networks were really just computers with economic models in them that would send their results to other computers. It's only "neural" in its highest level structure.

>I think the problem with people like you who fully love communism is that you're just meddlers.
I'm afraid there are some problems the market can't deal with. It's already stopped making a lot of sense with information technology, but transhumanism is going to really fuck with us. You don't want many economic inequalities when that starts.

Humanity is doing some brilliant things, but with such rapidly changing conditions, there is no reason to presume that capitalism will keep going so well. It's kinda dangerous. We need to take back control, before it's too late.

>I don't want to be Venezuela or Cuba, I acknowledge the realist aspect of life.
If we transition slowly not much could go wrong.

Reminder for everyone having doubts about communism: youtube.com/watch?v=K9CbgexJLK8

>just watch my propaganda, don't think for yourself at all. everything you need to know is in this cute little video I posted

don't fight it user

I will kill you personally if you ever start your revolution and I will laugh while I do it.