Red pill me on being a lawyer. Pros and cons. Types of law, the job itself, the pay, life in general as a lawyer. Anything helps.
Im currently in undergrad, going to law school when I graduate. I definitely want a law degree, but Im on the fence about becoming a lawyer. Also, what else can I do with a law degree?
>Red pill me on being a lawyer.
This is your whole society. You should definitely be a lawyer.
You'll end up working shitjobs, but you will know all the loopholes in the business so you can Saul your way through.
Be ready to defend child rapists by saying she was coming onto him
After looking at the law profession closely i have some finding i want to discuss.
1. the end of the golden period
It seems as if this time before the 'disruption' of law profession was the golden period with retainers and billable hours and all the trimmings. Now with the introduction of pricing schemes as flat fees and no win no pay being the norm, the pool is going to shrink as law firms,etc. just can't spend the time money to develop new talent etc.
2. the introduction of automatic / online contracts and document generation where you can go to legalzoom or whatever and get not a bespoke contract just for you but a boilerplate contract adjusted to your needs. This is of major concern as more and more law-clerk type jobs like managing contract info like when contracts expire etc... is automated.
3. automated doc. review - this isn't as much of a concern as it is in accounting where we are very close to fully automating transaction matching/etc and many other functions but it is a concern.
Having little to no morals or common sense is a big help
my other concerns are with actually what law is. I think everyone who looks at law as a career probably thinks they are top shit and perhaps they are but it creates an perception of what the expectation is. as in what happens after you finish your degree? It's not caviar and champagne. It's shit. You are paid a pittance to work your arse off and in the end very few people are actually "successful" in their field.
Every other lawyer you work with will be a tryhard shithead
Second year lawfag here. School is gay and the people are faggots, everyone's a liberal cuck. Working at a family firm and it's boss as fuck, taking these loser abusive husbands for all their money is tight.
>inb4 sjw
Beating chicks is pretty prevalent and judges don't like it much at all. We bill 350 an hour, and I make $18 an hour as a clerk.
Also know that lawyers drink like crazy. Best advice I can give you before school is don't take advice from anyone who isn't practicing, including classmates or professor academic faggots, they don't know dick.
don't do it. Lawgrad here. Overpriced. Get a job as an accountant stocks/bonds/futures/finance/securities.
Don't go to law school if you don't want to be a lawyer. "What else can I do with a law degree?" is the wrong question to ask. I have heard from a million different people that you should not waste your time if you do not want to practice law/aren't sure.
I know a couple of lawyers.
One specializes in entertainment law - most of it is boring contract review, but it's steady work, he makes a very good living (after eating shit for years, building his contact list), and gets the inside scoop on actors and musicians, and gets to have dinner and drinks with really famous people. He doesn't do celebrity divorce, tho - just contract negotiation, and sidelines in copyright work. He loves his job.
Second one is in real estate law. Boring as fuck, but he makes bank, now that he made partner. He likes the corporate world, and the country club lifestyle. He's happily working towards his second wife and first heart attack.
Third is a woman who tried defending the poor in the DA's office, found out she despises them, tried the non-profit world, found out they're all backstabbing fucksticks, is going back to school for something else. Regrets the time and money she spent on her degree, and passing the bar.
Fourth isn't a lawyer, but a para-legal. Less schooling, good pay in NYC, works in a big skyscraper in high end executive offices. It's mostly doing research and making copies, is boring as fuck, but the bennies are great. Doesn't regret not getting her law degree, after watching lawyers burn themselves out and into a hospital bed trying to make partner. Refuses to date or marry a lawyer now. Is trying to snap up a Wall Street player.
can confirm this. No ethics in law, but everyone's too afraid to call eachother out for state bar violations because they'd get a bad rep, unless they're malpractice lawyers, in which case they don't give a fuck obviously. Mutually assured destruction. It's a terrible job if you don't want to deal face to face with people all the time, and if you can't deal with the patience required with super fine details in contracts and case facts and knowing the statutes by heart etc. Too many lawyers, not enough clients. A lot of law is now arbitration, because actual court cases are too expensive so you won't be living in a movie unless you work for the state earning shit money. Good luck in finance.
Everyone thinks it's exciting courtrroom drama, but from what I see, it's never ending meetings, and then hiding out researching and writing briefs. The partners are the ones who get the fancy dinners and all the perks. Or you work in a DA's office, prosecuting shitbags, or defending them. Or you're Better Call Saul, defending shitbags, but charging more. Or you do real estate/commercial law, which is mostly contract reviw.
There's too many lawyers out there now, to really take a swing at pure law, unless you're really good at it. Most people with law degrees use that training in the corporate world. Or they become agents for actors, musicians, and athletes. That's where the big money is.
Can't someone get into those careers more easily with a law degree?
your post made me want to kill myself
I really like your post. For some reason, it encouraged me a bit to pursue school.
If you're ENTP you'll enjoy being a lawyer, otherwise you'll hate it because it's not like in the movies.
What if i want to be tax barrister? How do? Is it worth doing?
don't listen to this faggot. If you want to get a degree in business get a degree in business. Law is for lawyers. It will literally do you no good in business. You learn the law at law school. Whether you can convince some idiot asshole that it's good on your resume that you wasted 3 years of your goddam life on some bullshit you'll never use in business is a risk you'd have to be an idiot to take.
You could go into politics, too. Or government beaurocracy, or the diplomatic corps.
What if im introverted but i can balls up and present in a court room. over here there isnt any of that showmanship they have in the us
Don't know any, so I don't know.
People will immediately think you're some sort of superhero doing amazing shit. When in reality, you'll probably end up a bloodsucking scumbag who does nothing else in his spare time then hire dominatrixes, or fucks housewives while his cuck assistant watches.
He's asking what he could do with a law degree, not what he should, you cock smoking nigger.
See:
that post gave me cancer
>Im currently in undergrad, going to law school when I graduate. I definitely want a law degree, but Im on the fence about becoming a lawyer. Also, what else can I do with a law degree?
Everything bretty much.
Pros: Good money
Cons: Defending the scum of society
It should. All of those people should die screaming in a fire, in a law library.
Me too. You don't get those jobs unless your daddy gibs them. And fucking greenpeace? Are you kidding me? Die for worm infested nigger? No thanks, and why would you ever need a fucking law degree for that? kek.
Again, he asked what he *could* do, not what he *should* do.
Learn the difference, niggers.
You have to be extroverted. Being a successful lawyer has more to do with buddying up with judges and prosecutors than arguing your case in court.
Well yeah you fucking retard, He *could* study astrophysics and become a fucking dentist eventually too. Who the fuck cares?
Unless you're attending an ivy league university or know people; you will not find work with a law degree. Get out while you're still an undergrad and do something more productive.
what is meant by buddying up?
He does, which is why he asked, you deformed GMO potato.
Definitely working with people. Not buddying up. Most lawyers and judges are cold and distant assholes, just like me :) ...Not '''buddy'''' material.
DUDE FUCK LAW DROP OUT OF COLLEGE AND BECOME A WELDER
sucking dick
Patent attorney
Pros:
- Federal license to practice, once you've passed the exam you're in the clear in all 50 states
- Ever get an idea for an invention/trademark/copyright? Now you can have it protected in an afternoon
- Bitches love patents
Cons:
- Need a STEM degree
- Your job will probably be automated in the next 10 years
- Bitches actually don't love patents that much
Not true. Most ivy league people get jobs right out of school in in-house counsel or in academia. 2nd tier law-schools feed into first year associates positions at mid-tier firms 60-100k.
Seriously OP; learn to code, engineer, or do something medical. That shit is a fucking bad idea if you're not pursuing law at Harvard or your dad isn't Robert Kardashian.
Law school is a shitload of work and money, and if you aren't going to a top school you'll almost certainly spend decades recouping your costs.
Why you'd do it instead of engineering I have no idea.
Who fucking told you this? Hahahaha, nigga you'll be walking around with your degree sucking dick for a bag of cheetos to pay off your 200k.
This is more right than wrong. Focus on finance though, instead. If you must get a MBA instead.
I'm free as in freedom type of guy. the whole subfield of IP law and subverting copyright law to keep your copyright for the next millennium are things i find personally offensive.
>ywn be grilled and absolutely annihilated by Trey Gowdy
Why even live?
Get an engineering degree and you won't want to put a bullet in your head in ten years.
Perhaps.
>>>
> Anonymous (ID: N/+yyst7) 12/12/16(Mon)20:11:07 No.102663842 ▶
> (OP)
>Patent attorney
>Pros:
>- Federal license to practice, once you've passed the exam you're in the clear in all 50 states
>- Ever get an idea for an invention/trademark/copyright? Now you can have it protected in an afternoon
>- Bitches love patents
>Cons:
>- Need a STEM degree
>- Your job will probably be automated in the next 10 years
>- Bitches actually don't love patents that much
DO NOT DO THIS PATENT ATTORNEYS KILL THEMSELVES MORE THAN ANYONE I KNOW
To everyone in this thread
I dont understand. I knew being a lawyer is stressful and a huge work load, but I thought you could make a lot of money doing it? Especially if you own your own private firm, nothing huge, even just a small practice in criminal law could make you a shit ton of money because its your own business pretty much
>Ivy League law schools are da best
Confirmed for someone who has no idea what he's talking about. We use terms like t14, t30, tier1, tier2, etc. Go pollute another thread with your unqualified opinions. Hell, in the top 10 law schools there are more non-Ivies than Ivies.
If you're good and have the reputation of a lawyer that does good work, yes. But nigga you don't just walk outside of those doors with a degree and open up a firm. Nobody is going to pay for some random with a law degree from some random state school to protect them from the law that could quite literally end their life.
do you have a law degree?
Don't worry, nobody actually gives a fuck because the world doesn't need more lawyers. Your field is stagnant and oversaturated because nobody is hiring some faggot and his "t14" degree or whatever the fuck
3L at shit tier school. Hope you're ready to develop anxiety, depression, and misanthropy.
also, almost all your colleagues will be libcucks
see this is why i need some experience in some law chambers or something so i atleast know what the job is.
Do you enjoy rent-seeking and the company of jews?
That man is the most based lawyer on the face of the earth. The entire profession is rife with scum.
That hasn't been true, ever. If you make partner in a big firm, yeah, you can make a lot of money. Most lawyers do okay. A lot don't.
so youre telling me almost every single lawyer out there that owns their own little firm, basically practices law privately, is just doing okay, almost all of them? none of them make good bank, they all suck on the lawyer scale?
So basically what Im getting from this thread is that being a lawyer sucks, no lawyers make good money unless theyre the head of their own big firm, and having a law degree is a mistake unless you strive to be a depressed, broke lawyer. Correct?
What school are you attending? Do you know of any lawyers in your family or immediate circle who would be willing to help you break into the field? Seriously, dude. Please reconsider. I don't want you to fuck up your life with massive loans and no job prospects; because believe it or not law is full of the same "Sorry, we're looking for 10 years of experience" hurdle that practically every other 'genre' of employer is tossing in front of you. You're basically gambling away tens of thousands of dollars. Nevermind the shit workload you're about to be embarking on, but just the fact that you're most likely going to be financially ruined unless you're one of the lucky ones.
No, you're getting fed a little truth with a lot of bullshit. The amount of money a lawyer makes varies with what law school you go to, how well you do in law school, what type of law you practice, how hard you work, how well you network, etc.
Plenty of lawyers make good money working at small firms without back-breaking workloads. Some lawyers shoot for "Big Law" - the kind of giant firms you see on TV shows. These firms have an insanely high turnover rate and most new associates don't last more than a few years. Still, people are attracted to it because it pays insanely well. It's not something I would ever consider, because I don't like 90 hour work weeks, but people do it. The money really is that good.
Now, the legal profession is undergoing a market correction right now - a very slow correction. Law schools are lowering admission standards (even the very best ones), scholarship money is going out more easily, etc. BUT, that's because the market isn't what it used to be. If you want to know more the forums at toplawschoolforums are an excellent starting point (way better than Sup Forums).
One word of advice - if you're not Jewish, you'll have a hard time in "Big Law" in NYC, Chicago, LA. It sucks but that's the way it is. Believe me or don't, doesn't matter to me. Jewish lawyers in those circles are stereotyped as being the best and they network with each other. Their nepotism is ubiquitous in those cities I mentioned.
Do you like working extremely long hours and be around the greediest most aelf absorbed people in the world
If so then go ahead
I had a conversation with a senior associate of a big law firm here in Australia who moved here from New York because of that reason.
He didn't explicitly say "the jews" but he said the closed circle networking makes it extremely difficult to progress up the scale if you are perceived as an outsider.
He graduated from an ivy leavue law school but is a very brown poo in loo so I imagine he was considered an outsider.
The legal profession has the most competitive entry position rate (i.e most number of entry job openings per number of graduates) but also the highest demand for mid-tier employees.
What does that fact indicate?
That everyone wants to work for a big law firm, then many of those of are impressive enough to be accepted realise that the prospects of working 90 hours a week for a 5% chance to make partner in 25 years don't seem that inviting after all.
As healthcare improves these old fucks taking up the partner position just won't die off so it's going to be even more competitive.
I know plenty of smart lawyers who switched into investment banking and now are laughing at their former lawyer colleagues.
Im a patent lawyer, litigation has dried up due to s.ct fuckery and new rules, and everyone fights for IPR's now
Patent acquisition is essentially commoditizated. They havent been able to outsource it to india and taiwan to any large degree but it is hard to run a proft - everything is close to margins
Recently large general practicfirms been gobling up ip firms. As they realize they cant extract large sums, it It may be a return to small 2-5 man patent firms soon who do ok and not killing it
>Cons
Slave work during studies and for years after. Paperwork might get computerized to some extent, thus replacing it and reducing job opportunities.
>Pros
Money... when you're older... maybe.
To make real money in law you must be or become a "rainmaker" . So basically be a rly good salesman
These are all true. The standard form contracts isn't too big a deal, but automated doc review, specifically eDiscovery, and the changes in pricing have really diminished some of the benefits of being a lawyer. I'm a lawyer, and I know a lot of my classmates (graduated 3.5 ago) who are not working full-time in the legal field, or even as lawyers at all. There are also a surprisingly large number of unemployed lawyers.
I didn't go to a top school, but I was in the top fifth of my class and had some good internships and awards, so I got a good job about a year after graduating. If you're outside the T14 (or is it T15 now?), you better either graduate at least in the top third of your class or have strong connections for a job after you graduate. Otherwise, it's not worth it, too much debt and work for too little reward.
On the other hand, women are still impressed when you tell them you're a lawyer, so that's a benefit.
An assload of lawyers have an incredibly hard time getting a job. And an assload of lawyers hate the actual jobs they get and switch careers.
This. The best lawyer I've ever used was close friends with the prosecutors and local judges.
A fine example of our highly ethical legal system.
I was a lawyer. It's full of women these days, highly politicised work place, really long hours of never ending paper work and reading, and any older business people you meet will look at you like you're slime.
But you will probably beat most people in an argument, you'll learn all about how society works, you'll be at high risk for substance abuse and suicide, you'll have to live to work, you'll spend your life thinking whoever is wearing the most expensive suit is the best person, and you'll never contribute anything of value to the world.
Do electrical engineering and die satisfied.
Sadly true. It's a closely knit community, and if people don't know who you are, or you piss off the wrong judge or power broker in the local bar association, you'll be limited in your career options.
Also do NOT start your career by bringing legal malpractice suits against other lawyers in your area. My friend did this, and it ended up being the only work she could get because the other lawyers in the area knew her as the new girl who sues other lawyers. Her career plans blew up barely after she barely started.
>have phd, chem
>passed lsat, applying this cycle
go patent or no?