(((Serious))) question for people who think we should be focusing on fossil fuels... What will you do when we run out?

(((Serious))) question for people who think we should be focusing on fossil fuels... What will you do when we run out?

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youtube.com/watch?v=G8zOHZINyG8
world-nuclear-news.org/NN-New-schedule-agreed-for-Iter-fusion-project-2111164.html
youtube.com/watch?v=UgMuBR2LvhM
theguardian.com/science/2016/oct/17/was-venus-the-first-habitable-planet-in-our-solar-system
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

build the starships and go to space and the other places

Will we run out before we find a viable alternative tho?

easy.

hydrogen cars are already a viable alternative we just dont have the infrastructure and govt wont pay the shekels required to rip out gas infrastructure and replace with hydrogen infrastructure

solar energy will supplement it

Fossil fuels are one of the most abundant resources on earth.
We have barely scratched the surface (literally)
Most of the ocean bottom is unexplored for oil, there have to be another 15-20 Saudi size deposits near the floor
We have barely begun to develop deep drilling and recovery technology
Fracking alone has made the US energy independent and it's only been tried in a few locations
We will probably find a cheaper energy source than oil long before we run out

run out of fossil fuels?

hahahshas ahshashs ahahahaha ahahahahhsdahahaha hahahah top kek

we will be fully solar way before that happens, solar is the end game but it's just not there yet. There is enough fossil fuel to get us there for sure.

>What will you do when we run out?
Create more by extracting CO2 (for the carbon) from water and cracking hydrogen from water to be recombined into a 1:1 replacement for oil based fossil fuels, all powered by breeder nuclear reactors.

Due to the swing load of electric demand you actually only need about 60% of peak demand to meet a levelized demand curve over the day. But to meet peak demand you must have about 105% built and running.

So in short you have 45% extra production sitting around. Now for something like natural gas or hydroelectric that's fine, you just shut down into low operating mode at night and save your fuel.

For a nuclear reactor that's wasteful as most of the cost of nuclear is construction cost.

So if you take a nuclear reactor and in it's off time crack hydrogen to make liquid fuels you can run at 100% all the time.

A neat trick is that when you take water to near it's critical point the amount of electricity needed to break the bond of hydrogen and oxygen is lower the the cost to heat it up to that temp making hydrogen production more cost effective.

This technology is being developed by the US navy to meet navy fuel needs.

Video very much related: youtube.com/watch?v=G8zOHZINyG8

solar is shit. We have hundreds of years of oil reserves, but we will be oil independent well before that.

I am hoping for fusion, iter is only ten years away in france, and a bunch of companies are coming up with some great smaller scale designs.

world-nuclear-news.org/NN-New-schedule-agreed-for-Iter-fusion-project-2111164.html

I'll be dead. Why would I care? Are humans even going to still be around when it comes to that? It'd be like me worrying about what humans will do when the sun goes out.
>mfw

invent and innovate like we're been doing the last thousands of years

>I am hoping for fusion, iter is only ten years away in france
Sure it is.

I don't know buy we have 800 years of coal to fegure it out.

As someone who works in the Oil Industry (BP Oil), I can tell you that it is unlikely we will ever run out of oil, as easily accessible supplies diminish, the price will rise making other supplies of oil economical.

At some point the falling price of alternatives such as renewable energy (Wind, Solar, Hydro), will become more economic than using fossil fuels and we will gradually transition.

Places like Saudi Arabia will switch from drilling and exporting oil to collecting solar energy and using the excess to convert water into hydrogen + oxygen via water electrolysis.

So instead of vehicles running on petrol, they will run on electricity or hydrogen (depending upon the mileage requirement).

We will gradually move from a carbon fuel cycle to a hydrogen fuel cycle and things like oil, gas and coal will become irrelevant.

good point, order of magnitude of ten then (between 10 and 100)

still fairly reasonable if it works.

Until then we can play with compact fusion like lockheed martin and company are doing

In the meantime we can use compact Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors, which have been around since the 1950's to produce safer, cleaner nuclear power (albeit fission, not fusion)

China are already developing their own LFTR designs to replace their polluting coal power stations. These should be up and running in 2025 - 2030 time period.

Well step one is make positive power. Then once you hit that goal, scale it up by a factor of a million so that it's economical.

I'm sure we are just 10 years away from that.

>So instead of vehicles running on petrol, they will run on electricity or hydrogen (depending upon the mileage requirement).
That's stupid given the tech to create replacement fuels from carbon and hydrogen.

>That's stupid given the tech to create replacement fuels from carbon and hydrogen.

If the technology was mature, but it is not. They have been running liquid hydrogen fuelled cars around California for a decade.

youtube.com/watch?v=UgMuBR2LvhM

Yes lets throw away every ICE currently in use. Refit every single distribution truck, pipe, train, and filling station. Force people to use a far more unsafe product both at the containment side and filling side. Then to top it off give up 2/3 of the vehicle range.

Why? Because it can work?

It's a terrible solution to the problem. Take the hydrogen bind it to carbon and keep literally every everything but the refinery process and keep burning gas and diesel.

Answer to that is a definitive no. We already have multiple alternatives and simply put it's cheaper and easier for now to just use up fossil fuels. With global warming we will have Antarctica and middle east and north Africa will be uninhabitable. Why would anyone not want this?

...that might be a reasonable half-way stage, but it's also a half-assed solution.

We need to stop burning shit to make stuff operate...or are you a climate change sceptic as well?

this is fucking genius.

if only we had nuclear power in this country. it fucking blows my mind we don't utilise our huge uranium reserves for ourselves.

instead we have a hodgepodge of coal and renewables and some of the highest electricity prices in the entire western world.

>We already have multiple alternatives and simply put it's cheaper and easier for now to just use up fossil fuels. With global warming we will have Antarctica and middle east and north Africa will be uninhabitable. Why would anyone not want this?

Because that would exacerbate global warming? The amount of solar radiation reflected back off the earth by the arctic and antarctic ice is phenomenal.

Heard science found a way to make oil from algae. Might be what you are looking for.

>We need to stop burning shit to make stuff operate...or are you a climate change sceptic as well?

See my post No need to stop burning it.

Idk, when are we due to run out?

>Heard science found a way to make oil from algae. Might be what you are looking for.

This is a step sideways rather than a step forwards. As I said earlier, we need to find ways of generating and storing energy without burning shit.

We need to be cooling the planet down, not raising the temperature.

we would toast the earth's climate before we ever run out. we know what the climate was like when all that carbon was in the atmosphere because at one time it was. anyway, solar will soon be cheaper than oil, it is at near parity now, so it is all moot

It only works when you force feed the algae CO2. Normally supplied by burning natural gas.

When you open the tanks to air the algae gets wrecked by other biological contaminates. Thus you need to filter the air to a clean room level then pump it into the growing tanks.

It doesn't really work that well and doesn't scale up very well as it gains nothing by being larger if it's powered by the sun.

Industrial hemp can yield more ethanol per acre than corn and replace most plastics/fibers derivated from oil.

The rest should be taken care of with wind/solar. This plan implies we uncuck ourselves and legalize weed.

if you think fusion is more economical and practical than solar you are a textbook case of technical illiteracy. go back to whatever you school you are or were in and apologize for wasting their time.

>Idk, when are we due to run out?

Last report I read was based upon current consumption levels (which would change if we switched to different fuels obviously), we should run out of reasonably extractable oil reserves in about 60 - 70 years.

But as I said, we will switch over to other means of generating energy before that day comes.

We're not just going to fucking run out one day like it's a surprise how the hot water runs out when you're in the shower masturbating to hentai.

Fossil fuels will just become gradually more and more expensive over time. Because this is going on, alternatives such as nuclear, solar, biomass, and so forth will become economically competitive and replace fossil fuel use.

By then I will probably be fossil fuel.

It might make more ethanol but it's not enough. Wind and solar are useless when you hit more than 15% of the grid total demand coming from them due to them being non dispatchable, low density and high cost.

this is a viable approach as it is closed cycle carbon neutral and oil is basically fossilized algae anyway. but releasing genetically engineered algae into nature is problematic.

We run out of fossil fuels, at the current rate (NOT ACCELERATION, IT WILL BE SHORTER IF WE ACCELERATE OUR USE) in 56 years.

Thanks for blasting us back to the fucking colonial era.

niggers.

Ah, I understand. In which case, we could just get a bunch of homeless people to turn a giant generator in exchange for food and shelter.

It's more a factor that as the price of oil goes up more oil becomes available for economic extraction.

It would be more energy efficient to burn the food for heat to run a generator. Hell throw the homeless people in the furnace too.

On another note,

GEOTHERMAL POWER IS OUR VIABLE SOURCE OF ALTERNATIVE ENERGY AND ITS LITTERALLY POWERED BY OUR FUCKING PLANET JUST BEING THERE, WE JUST NEED TO PUT A PIPE UNDER A MILE BENEATHER THE GROUND AND PUMP LIQUID THROUGH IT TO JUST MAKE A FUCKING STEAM ENGINE POWERED ON ROCKS.

>In which case, we could just get a bunch of homeless people to turn a giant generator in exchange for food and shelter.

Whilst fun to watch it would hardly be efficient.

Did you know that they actually did this in prisons in the 1800's, had prisoners walking on treadmills to "pay" for their keep.

Shame the treadmills weren't wired up to some form of generator, but there you go.

Oscar Wilde had to suffer this form of punishment when in Reading Gaol.

But wouldn't it be more humane and more environmentally friendly?

>
it has already been calculated that to burn all the known reserves would result in a planet where humans cannot survive. the atmosphere is actually relatively very thin, but people think it is infinite for some reason. time to watch inconvenient truth again in case you were baked when they forced you to watch it in school

How do you know it won't be enough?
If it isn't, we use the Henry Ford solution: compact biomass generators for everyday electricity. Can be done with current technology.

Rockefellers don't want you to know this.

>GEOTHERMAL POWER IS OUR VIABLE SOURCE OF ALTERNATIVE ENERGY AND ITS LITTERALLY POWERED BY OUR FUCKING PLANET JUST BEING THERE, WE JUST NEED TO PUT A PIPE UNDER A MILE BENEATHER THE GROUND AND PUMP LIQUID THROUGH IT TO JUST MAKE A FUCKING STEAM ENGINE POWERED ON ROCKS.

Great. Lets not just heat the atmosphere, lets cool the core as well...? Fucken muppet.

What point was there to running on treadmills, then?

The economy of suffering/punishment.

Michel Foucault is the obligated reference for a phenomenon that also explains painful bureaucracy and Moloch devotion.

>time to watch inconvenient truth again in case you were baked when they forced you to watch it in school.

Sorry, but the stuff put out by Al Gore and Micheal Mann were just speculative bullshit designed to scare people about CAGW.

Yes, the planet is getting warmer as it has been for a long time. Equally, we need to do something about it, but it's primarily about not exacerbating an already existing natural phenomenon.

Geothermal causes earthquakes and release orders of magnitude more radioactive waste than what would get a nuclear power plant shut down. Hell more than what would get a coal plant shut down.

And no you can't just pump the NORMs back down where they came from.

>Cool the core

How fucking big do you think the planet is, the size of your IQ?


Its not even 1/100th through the crust and its viable...

plus, we shoot photons into the void every fucking day with our gigantic cities.

also, it fucking comes up through the ground anyway, do you think the fucking dirt is holding it in? How retarded are you?

>What point was there to running on treadmills, then?

As says, basically just punishment. They were confined in prison for a term of "Hard Labour", so hard labour is what they got, even though it was a totally pointless waste of time.

The regime basically broke Oscar Wilde, he came out of prison after 2-years with his health destroyed and died soon after his release.

This

You are retarded

...

>geothermal generates radioactive waste
care to explain? what kind of fucking geothermal are you talking about?

as for earthquakes,

fucking
fracking
is your alternative.

besides being completely dubious of that claim, you are going up against

fucking
fracking.

no.

>Cool the core

Sarcasm bro.

>56 years
>current proven reserves
There's so much fucking oil under the ocean floor. Petroleum won't run out for a good long time but we need to be finding viable alternatives now instead of when we need them desperately

cold fusion

We have so much oil in our Alberta oil sands to maintain current levels of usage for centuries. We're good.

>You are retarded

Why exactly? Because I don't think the answer to climate change and fossil fuels is to generate biomass to burn instead?

The way forward is NOT FUCKING BURNING SHIT TO MAKE ENERGY!

Wot m8 r u sayin green tech is weak????

>How do you know it won't be enough?
Because we can do math. The conversion efficiency of hemp from the sun into output biomass heating value even with free drying to remove water runs at less than 1% of the solar radiance that falls on it. We can take a square meter calculation for the energy and divide by our energy demand to get a lowest possible size. Then we need to calculate for energy loss of the conversion process into ethanol and raise the area in proportion. Then we add in a factor for processing the raw material; planting, tending, harvesting, transport.

The number we get cuts so deeply into our food production land mass that the end result is food shortages.

The only reason we throw money at corn ethanol is that the US has a corrupt federal government and we buy votes with subsidies.

>If it isn't, we use the Henry Ford solution: compact biomass generators for everyday electricity. Can be done with current technology.
>Rockefellers don't want you to know this.

Again we don't make enough biomass waste to power our needs.

> fossil fuels
use them as a power source to build infrastructure and tech to take advantage of renewable sources.
> what will you do when we run out?
Not give a fuck as we'll have all sorts of alternatives sorted out and built long before that happens.

>time to watch inconvenient truth again in case you were baked when they forced you to watch it in school

Sure. See that point in the graph when it goes fucking backward in time? Must have hit 88 mph.

be too dead to care

Im a fucking chemist, and you are retarded.

Solar, Wind, and Hydro. Oil companies are not oil companies, they are energy companies. Exxon Mobil owns the patents to several solar panel designs.

When oil approaches the point of no longer being profitable, the energy companies will begin their transition.

>Sure. See that point in the graph when it goes fucking backward in time? Must have hit 88 mph.

The biggest error of the CAGW alarmists is that their understanding of the relationship between CO2 and temperature is the wrong way around.

Increasing temperatures cause increased CO2, not increasing CO2 causes increasing temperatures.

This is why I have no respect for them or their bullshit arguments. When real climate scientists pointed this out they were shouted down.

If you'd kept track of ITER you'd know that they're not building a test reactor, they're just testing. Being 'complete' in 10 years means they're on another test iteration, not that they're near to building a working reactor.
And given the nature of fusion research, 10 years means 20.

>>geothermal generates radioactive waste
>care to explain? what kind of fucking geothermal are you talking about?
When you pump water down into rock formations to let it heat / boil and expand under pressure. Iceland doesn't care because they are already just a massive earthquake and volcano.

Also I see no comment about the radioactive waste production issue. If the US threw away it's rare earth mining and processing over thorium being found with rare earths then we sure as fuck are going to do the same for geothermal.

>as for earthquakes,
>fucking
>fracking
>is your alternative.
>besides being completely dubious of that claim, you are going up against
>fucking
>fracking.
>no.

We don't in general burn oil from fracking for electrical power. While more or less all power from geothermal becomes electric. You can't compare the two because they are dissimilar in basic nature. And no electric cars are not the solution, lets not run down that road of stupidity and retardation.

>If you'd kept track of ITER you'd know that they're not building a test reactor, they're just testing. Being 'complete' in 10 years means they're on another test iteration, not that they're near to building a working reactor.
>And given the nature of fusion research, 10 years means 20.

50-years ago they said we were 50-years away from cheap clean nuclear fusion. Here we are 50-years later and it's still 50-years away.

I'll be long dead before they get working nuclear fusion.

>10 years means 20.
And 50 billion drachmas down the fusion drain.

>Increasing temperatures cause increased CO2, not increasing CO2 causes increasing temperatures.

Wut?

CO2 levels are increasing because we are burning hydrocarbons that contain millions of years worth of fossilized plant remains that captured and stored atmospheric carbon when they died.

Greenhouse gasses trap heat. This is a demonstrable fact and the reason its 800F on the surface of Venus.

>CO2 levels are increasing because we are burning hydrocarbons that contain millions of years worth of fossilized plant remains that captured and stored atmospheric carbon when they died.

Read my comments. I have REPEATEDLY SAID WE SHOULD STOP FUCKING BURNING SHIT BECAUSE THIS IS NOT FUCKING HELPING!

>This is a demonstrable fact and the reason its 800F on the surface of Venus.
I can't tell if you are stupid, trolling, or actually believe what you just said.

Venus is hot because it has 92 times the atmosphere. Not because it has 95% CO2 atmosphere.
Mars has more CO2 as a percent of it's atmosphere yet is a toasty average of about -80C.

I know we use fossil fuels for a shit ton of stuff but the transportation dillemma is probably the easiest fix.
-walk
-bikes
-horse and carriage makes a comeback
-electric cars become more popular.

I don't know what the fuck we are going to do for the other shti though i guess we'll be fucked

Very time consuming process.

Won't be able to keep up with demand and is only a bandaid for the bigger problem.

>Won't be able to keep up with demand and is only a bandaid for the nigger problem.

FTFY.

>>This is a demonstrable fact and the reason its 800F on the surface of Venus.
>I can't tell if you are stupid, trolling, or actually believe what you just said.
>Venus is hot because it has 92 times the atmosphere. Not because it has 95% CO2 atmosphere.
>Mars has more CO2 as a percent of it's atmosphere yet is a toasty average of about -80C.

Basically this.

Anyone who believes that CO2 is the cause of climate change rather than a byproduct of it is a fucking moron.

Water vapour (which Earth has quite a lot of) is actually a bigger component of global warming.

Why does Venus have a massively thick atmosphere? Because all of the water turned to fucking steam.

theguardian.com/science/2016/oct/17/was-venus-the-first-habitable-planet-in-our-solar-system

I don't know how to tell you this but the trucks that carry food and goods around the country use fossil fuels because they're heavy and it takes a lot of energy to carry heavy things.

I hope we run out of major energy sources in general and return to the 1600s. Life would actually have meaning again even though I won't be around to see it.

We should expedite climate change to starve the inferior peoples and improve our own crop yields. Prove me wrong.

Hopefully by the time fossil fuels run out, some geniuses will have created technology to replace it. Otherwise, humanity will descend into another Dark Age and learn to live without fossil fuels.