What is wrong with being able to support a family with a minimum wage job?
If a job needs doing the minimum pay should be a living wage. Pass on that cost to the consumer.
If your business cannot afford to pay living wages then society has deemed your product not worth the money and you should shut down.
Labor is labor. it's your product that sucks if people won't buy it for an amount that allows you to pay decent wages.
please only thoughtful responses.
So do you think teenagers or other low skilled employees deserve a living wage? Or in your ideal society would these people not work until they are skilled? What about people that never learn any skills or even graduate high school?
You didn't think this through very much have you? The idea behind minimum wage is not to pay you enough to support a family. Those jobs are meant for teenagers/students/low skilled people who shouldn't have families to support and if they do they should be looking for a real job. Of course there will always be some families who are "forced" into providing for them on minimum wage, but that's not a problem with minimum wage, its a problem with their up bringing, education system, etc, that has failed to provide the necessary skills to get a real job.
Nothing wrong, you just have to adjust your living standards if you plan to support your family for
>So do you think teenagers or other low skilled employees deserve a living wage?
yes to both. If you're a hard working and enterprising teen why should you not be able earn a living? maybe skip college altogether instead of being forced to go to college to get a better job.
>The idea behind minimum wage is not to pay you enough to support a family.
ROFLLL. Spoken like a true cuck. Did your boss sat you down and explain this to you? How did it go?
>So leaf, the reason I have to underpay you is because I am looking out for society. I am a generous guy with a vision for society and therefore I must underpay you.
>Earning minimum wage is the outcome for the unprepared individual,
What did you mean by that? Are you saying you can't earn a living wage because you can't earn a living wage? sounds circular to me.
If you meet the job requirements then you are not an unprepared individual. If you wake up, get dressed, commute, perform your job well and get along with your co-workers. How is that an unprepared individual? Do you read what you're writing?
>If a job needs doing the minimum pay should be a living wage. Pass on that cost to the consumer.
Costs for items will skyrocket and consumption will drop. To offset that rise in price, companies will run their businesses CHEAPER, using inferior quality and keeping their work staff at an absolute MINIMUM.
Workers will have their hours cut, make LESS money, and not be able to afford anything as prices will rise.
Another offset will be more AUTOMATION in the workforce, eliminating many of those minimum wage jobs.
Fuck you and your so-called "living wage" bullshit.
Minimum wage jobs are there for a reason, dumbass. It's a starting point and a way for you to advance and move up in the company, not stay at that fucking entry level job forever.
Go fuck youself and then open a textbook. You obviously don't have a fucking clue about what you're talking about.
Fuck you for making me respond to your sheer stupidity and ignorance.
Motherfucker.
" it's your product that sucks if people won't buy it for an amount that allows you to pay decent wages"
If your LABOR sucks the employer doesn't want to "buy it" but is forced by the government.
See how dumb that first statement is now?
3 Things happen when you raise the min wage.
1. Low skill workers price themselves out of the now higher wage jobs
2. Prices increase meaning that paycheck doesn't go as far
3. Mom and pop shops shut down because they can't handle the new costs. Large corps can survive due to economies of scale.
Seriously, the lack of Economic understanding is appalling.
If said job requirements are taking orders or flipping burgers, don't expect a high remuneration for that job since you and everybody else can do it, bitch about it and ask for more money for a basic job and you get a cost effective automation, thus eliminating your chances to get/mantain that low skill job you crave so much
Explaining basic economics to commies sure is hard
Take government out of the equation then. If workers simply did not accept anything but a living a wage are you telling me that the industries that rely on minimum wage workers would shut down? Of course they wouldn't.
Would quality go down? Maybe. But that's just an opportunity for me to open a fast food place with higher quality and win market share.
>3 Things happen when you raise the min wage.
>1. Low skill workers price themselves out of the now higher wage jobs
yea right because engineers will now take those jobs flipping burgers.
2. Prices increase meaning that paycheck doesn't go as far
Prices would not increase for goods and services with low dependence on minimum wage labor. labor costs are only a part of the cost of running a business
3. Mom and pop shops shut down because they can't handle the new costs. Large corps can survive due to economies of scale.
Mom and pop shops would be able to capture more consumer dollars from better paid low skilled workers who typically shop at those stores.
>Another offset will be more AUTOMATION in the workforce, eliminating many of those minimum wage jobs.
Oh so we need low wages to keep technological progress at bay? Do you realize how hopeless that is?
We should be encouraging automation. What you said could've been said about literally any labor job every.
This response is so retarded. No, i have never had a conversation like the one you described because i never needed something so simple explained to me. Even if i did have a conversation like that with my boss as a teen i would smile and agree with him because Im not retarded. I only worked for minimum wage as a teen so this conversation would never occur for me now.
See these points made by these anons to understand why your thread is shit:
Be honest, OP, are you currently working a minimum wage job? It sure sounds like you are.
All I'm hearing is everyone should have all the basic needs given for free so long as corps want to say you have to work for them.
They have money, I have labor, we have time to make a deal.
Otherwise they should all lose their legal personhood and return to being individuals with money and ideas.
what the fuck is a living wage? you can live on 5 dollars a day, you're not gonna fucking die. you don't NEED an apartment or a house, you don't NEED a car, you don't NEED to go to college or make 45,ooo dollars a year.
you don't have any authority to tell people what their worth is. labor is NOT labor. some peoples labor is worth 150 dollars an hour, some peoples labor is worth 5 dollars an hour.
to be perfectly honest I am an entrepreneur and make a comfy living.
I've worked in warehouses when I was younger and was even a street vendor for a while.
Now I am $100-$150k/year doing supply chain logistics.
And based on such ideas, people should be allowed to get ahead by reducing the supply of other labor freely.
Kill the rest, and now you're the best.
I am not opposed to people being rich. I am opposed to people not having enough to live a decent, safe and hopeful life.
It is purely in my self-interest that I am not surrounded by poor people. I want the highest base and greatest number of consumers possible.
i don't think you've ever had a job.
just because robbery is illegal doesn't mean that murder isn't.
>i'm opposed to people not having enough to live a decent, safe and hopeful life.
well aint that just so fucking sweet, you wilting little tulip.
no one gives a fuck what you want or are opposed to.
entitled, spoiled kids who think they have a right to a house and a family. that someone else should have to give it to them. the ultimate conclusion of your idea's was attempted in soviet russia. it was horrifying. here's some truth for you: not everyone is going to make it. and you have no one to blame but yourself.
good luck on crowdfunding your pity-party until it gets legislated, though, i'm sure there are powerful jews who would just looooove to help you out with this plan because they're totally altruistic and really care.
But that is exactly what min wage is, its a government mandate. If that didn't exist, what would happen would be that employers and employees would eventually meet a mutual agreement on the value of their work. It wouldn't be some across the board arbitrary wage.
1. You took something I said to the extreme. No HIGHER skilled workers who fall under the new wage will apply for these jobs in lieu of pursuing more skilled labor. 30,000 a year is now within their comfortable wage. Instead of pursuing schooling they will simply take these jobs. This leaves the 16yr and high school drop outs fucked because they are now fighting for a job saturated with higher skilled workers THEN THEM.
2. It does, the cost of business increases. This isn't even an argument.
3. They do, and they have look at what happened in Seattle (related to my first pic). Min wage jobs are a tiny slice of the economony giving them more money to spend, doesn't come close to offsetting the increased cost of business for shops operating on small margins. Again, this has already happened in Seattle. Small shops can't weather the storm caused by artificial inflation of wages.
Lastly, what you are arguing for IS a government mandated min wage so you can't take gov out of the equation.
Not sure what your trying to say here user
The problem is not morals or even business economics. It´s demographics and proximity. Imagine a small town, you got a store. Only like 10 people are willing to do the job. 2 are handicapped. 2 are studying instead. 2 are dying from dysentery. Now you have only 4 people competing for the job. Maybe your store is open day and night? So all 4 are now hired. And you´d pay them living wages.
Too many people in too little area = shit society.
You should only be paid what your work is worth. Asking me if I want fries and then getting my order wrong is not worth much.
reality is, all fast food jobs could be replaced by robots within 6 months, and companies would make a huge profit off it. They aren't doing this only so that people who literally are so incapable of success, who have to work at fast food jobs to survive, won't lose their jobs
The fact that those jobs exist is a HUGE priviledge. If i were running mcdonalds, i woulda layed all of you off for robots in 2004
Robbery and murder are just leveraging the skills I have to get a better position in the world. Prohibiting them is just government intervention into the way the market and labor realtions should be.
If corporations are people, they should be treated as such. Dissolve the corporate tax and tax them as individuals like htey are.
You can't expect a bussiness to prioritize anything BUT profit first, other concerns will always come in second, if you can't afford to live by the wage you earn, society has deemed YOU unfit for life, how is that?
You can't expect others to have your interests at heart. Sometimes interest align, and there is mutual benefit, sure. But ultimately, everyone is themselves closest.
This will never change.
>Robbery and murder are just leveraging the skills I have to get a better position in the world. Prohibiting them is just government intervention into the way the market and labor realtions should be.
good luck fighting the system on two fronts.
Dunno, seems from here the agreement is that violence is an excellent way to make people do what you want.
you want to use violence to force people to pay someone more than the value of the services they render, and when you get told to fuck off because that doesn't work out as happily as you imagine, you use that to rationalize your only alternative option as being murder and mayhem in order to 'survive in society' like was the original goal of you asking for a raise.
do you see how fucking crazy you sound?
Without a floor, there's nothing to stand on.
The worst job you can have, will always be, literally, the worst job you can have. Even if you raise it, other things also raise to compensate. It just leads to inflation in the end.
Also, you dumb libs pushing this will just lead to automation THAT much faster.
No you don't. Why lie like this? If you were in supply chain/logistics you wouldn't need this explained to you. Done with this thread as you aren't you even fun to argue with, especially with blatant lies you are making about your occupation
>If your business cannot afford to pay living wages then society has deemed your product not worth the money and you should shut down.
>If your business cannot afford to pay living wages then society has deemed your labor not worth the money and you should not be unemployed
Seriously, a tiny fraction of people are even actually paid minimum wage or close. Few people would actually benefit and anyone who has been working for 10 years and still makes minimum is the type of person that would've been euthanized in the early 1900s. I have no sympathy for people who shoot themselves in the foot. I'm willing to give people opportunities but I'm not paying for someone else's failures
what? the vast majority of people earn minimum wage or close to it. many times more than make 20+ an hour, and tens of times more than make 50+ an hour.
I've never met a "poor" person who didn't have a better phone than me.
That kind of skews my perspective on a "living wage".
Yeah ok your living wage is $7 an hour. If you have a problem with that then get a real job.
I don't see how you could, since "minimum" wage should be around 1 cent per whatever arbitrary time period you prefer to use.
In other words, it should be set at whatever wage you and your employer agree that the job is worth. I think we can both agree that flipping burgers and keeping fries from getting too crispy isn't a skill that warrants 20 bucks an hour, can't we?
you are one the right track, caring for losers is misplaced compassion.
Noone likes a loser, and noone should. if you want to embrace darwinism you should embrace it in it's totality, a healthy society weeds out the sick and defunct, leaving more ressources for the capable
Minimum wage limits free exchange and creates deadweight loss. If I want to do a job for $1 per hour, and there is a willing employer, who is the government to tell me I can't? That's retarded. Instead, the government should use a progressive tax system to redistribute the wealth to those who do not make a living wage.
The cause of, and the solution to, the problem IS automation.
There's a significant fraction of the population that honestly ISN'T trainable for anything better than a minimum-wage job, and many or most of those jobs will shortly be easier, cheaper and safer to automate than it will be to continue to pay people to perform them. At that point, it will no longer be feasible to continue using them as make-work to keep idiots busy.
The solution is literally to cut them off. They can then either adapt or they can die. It's that simple. I'm sure that many of them WILL die, because they're either too lazy to acquire new skills, or completely unable to. In either case, there's no reason to expend resources to bear their weight. Let nature take its course.
Its quite logical. Predatorsroutinely remove interlopers and competition, and thus ensure the prey is only for themselves.
Refusing to do this because of the law is proof at how this works, you cite the threats fromt he government for imprisonment and violence as why not, which only supports the need for greater violence to win.
This.
Morticians and body disposal technicians have to eat too.
You make 16$ starting at USPS, 32$ for overtime, after applying they just have you take a test and the beautiful thing is 95% of the people you're competing with are dindus and 50 year old single moms . It's almost impossible to not get a job there. You need to keep checking their site for listings around you
oh ok, you're going to overthrow the government that mandates minimum wages now, in order to get a high minimum wage lmfao go on, whats the next step in your master plan of ultraviolence designed to get you a high paying job while simultaneously proving that you're totally capable of a high paying job
You strike me as somebody who's never held a job before.
Like, literally somebody who hasn't left their mom's house their entire life.
You have no understanding of how business works at all. You're just blindly hoping everything will turn out alright.
Why the same as the rest of the ballot or bullet crowd, get the US taken over by China and the EU in order to LARP SHattered Union.
i can't even understand what you're saying now. probably because you're just too smart for me.
You strike me as someone who doesn't know how head from his ass.
minimum skills = minimum wage
either improve your skill set or be prepared to live on
Because the people in the bottom bracket of earners usually are in the middle and later upper income brackets fifteen to thirty years down the line. Minimum wage is meant for beginning workers, not lifelong careers.
If everyone in your community is unable to move passed minimum wage jobs, you are probably part of the welfare culture.
Poor people are foolish with money and no realistic increase could become a 'living wage'
Learn skills or ye be wagecuck your whole life. man up and find a factory job.
If your productivity is that low, you shouldn't have children.
Checked, that's right.
This. A hundred times this. There may be job vacancies, but there are more people than there are meaningful full time roles for. And by meaningful I don't mean high-end. One street sweeper job vs ten agency sweepers on 6hrs/wk, a sweeper coordinator and a contract manager, all of whom are immigrants. ..
The problem is you have a family and your dumb. Your kids must be also fucking retarded. Most of them are.
They dont want you to live.
Your a burden to the country and your children also are a future problem.
They want you to:
A: Git gud, witch means your worth something and are allowed to live.
B: Die.
Minimum wage jobs are low skilled. They're the first ring on the career ladder. It's also not the product that "sucks." If someone won't pay for a $5 McDouble it's because theres not a high enough demand. Did you fail business and finance class in HS OP?
>implying McDonald's keeps staff instead of robots out of the goodness of its corporate heart
You mong. They just haven't rolled automation out yet. They wouldn't even need to structure layoffs. Natural wastage would trim their workforce down in months.
>the minimum pay should be a living wage. Pass on that cost to the consumer.
Consider this.
If as minimum wage rises, price increases pass on to the consumer.
Living wage has just increased, so the living wage minimum wage has to increase. And then the consumer has to pay for this increase.
If govt did this there would be no incentive to try to earn $3/hr
I wouldn't work for minimum wage.
Your living standard is on par with NEET and you don't have time for anything.
You will be better of taking money from government than some dead-end shitty job.
Once people will release that, the shitty job industry will end.
Nature would take its course and you would have even more feral niggers trying to kill you than you already do. It would be like South Africa.
Plus you overestimate what can be automated. Cleaners, taxi drivers, building labourers, it's not all burger flipping.
And this is why of course, in all countries that have a minimum wage, everything costs infinity pounds.
>>Earning minimum wage is the outcome for the unprepared individual,
>What did you mean by that?
he means that its you're fucking fault if all you're worth is fucking 7 dollars an hour.
work harder if you want a better life.
Yeah but our minimum wage really is a floor. You couldn't live on it without either the rest of your life being subsidised (esp rent) or moving to an economically depressed area. Except in Hull your jib isn't even available full time so you can't live there either.
The only point to a low minimum wage, like we have, is to stop companies taking the utter piss.
It's funny that most people who argue that minimum wage jobs are worthless and not worth doing ALSO hate the prospect of tipping. But in reality, by keeping the minimum wage minimal and shitting on the workers for earning it, you are openly enabling the tip system(which I'm against).
The only thing you've accomplished is producing a chance of finding cum in your coffee.
>you are openly enabling the tip system(which I'm against).
no, its legally required for an employer to pay the person what they didn't make in tips up to minimum wage.
it is not your duty to pay someone more than what you owe for the product or service they are selling.
>If a job needs doing the minimum pay should be a living wage
What is: Imposing your assumptions and beliefs in the world for 1000
and then he gets violent.
>people should be allowed to get ahead by reducing the supply of other labor freely. Kill the rest, and now you're the best.
>Robbery and murder are just leveraging the skills I have to get a better position in the world.
>violence is an excellent way to make people do what you want.
>Its quite logical. Predatorsroutinely remove interlopers and competition, and thus ensure the prey is only for themselves.... which only supports the need for greater violence to win.
this is the kind of person we're dealing with. the one who's concerned with a 'living wage', whatever the fuck that is.
You're absolutely right. If the economy is based around manufacturing and selling products and services and as a result creates jobs, then if a company is unable to pay an adequate wage, their business is ineffectual and should probably not exist.
Although I don't think that you should necessarily be able to "support a family" on minimum wage, but you should be able to support yourself.
What determines a living wage? The price of a studio apartment and the cost of power,water and 1 meal a day per person?
Minimum wage means individual self-subsistence.
You want the privilege of raising a family?
Either earn it, or be "lucky" enough to be born in a society in which the responsibility is legislated from you.
I'm not sure what (You) are getting at here, with all your memearrow greentext wizardry.
Two meals a day. And the chance to save 10% of income. I wouldn't say it was fair to expect companies to pay enough to support a family.
It would be achievable if we didn't have the house price ponzi scheme
Eliminate minimum wage and tipping becomes default for the restaurant waitstaff, no?
Other wise restaurants would not exist, and people would simply cook for themselves.
i don't have to explain shit
...
Get an adult job, you sopping wet pussy and aim for something higher than making a teenagers summer job your life long career.
nice meme, where'd you get it, facebook?
You can. I work with some people that do. Usually the problem is they can't budget or have too much expenses/kids. You also ought to be working your way up the ladder. I mean, what are you doing with yourself that you're working minimum wage jobs at 40 years old?
>The solution is literally to cut them off. They can then either adapt or they can die. It's that simple. I'm sure that many of them WILL die, because they're either too lazy to acquire new skills, or completely unable to. In either case, there's no reason to expend resources to bear their weight. Let nature take its course.
WTF dude, they're also people and have feelings. You see them as only market agents and not as individuals. What about the general wellbeing of the members of a society? This doesn't help
You should read about the veil of ignorance:
>It is based upon the following thought experiment: people making political decisions imagine that they know nothing about the particular talents, abilities, tastes, social class, and positions they will have within a social order. When such parties are selecting the principles for distribution of rights, positions, and resources in the society in which they will live, this "veil of ignorance" prevents them from knowing who will receive a given distribution of rights, positions, and resources in that society.
>For example, for a proposed society in which 50% of the population is kept in slavery, it follows that on entering the new society there is a 50% likelihood that the participant would be a slave.