The F-35 must die

For America, the world and general fairness. No 1.5 trillion boondoggles any more!

Donald, make it happen.

Other urls found in this thread:

reuters.com/article/us-israel-usa-jet-carter-idUSKBN1411ZH
youtube.com/watch?v=58QOBqAWNzE
twitter.com/AnonBabble

t. Airbus

no, they need to spend more.

Airbus will not be happy if LM, Boeing's biggest domestic competitor, is btfo.

t. Boeing

> yes goy! buy this magical snake oil stealth plane! it's invisible, it's totaly woth all your money!

At least Ahmed al-Svenska understands. Inshallah!

The US needed an exportable fighter. They can't export the F-22, too many secrets in it. And it beats the F-35.

Israel got their first ones this week

First country to receive F35

More like:

>The F-22 is no longer in production because idiots thought it was too expensive

>Same idiots now want to stop F-35 production despite there being no valid alternative

You are talking bs now

reuters.com/article/us-israel-usa-jet-carter-idUSKBN1411ZH

i work in banking. did some research on this because of potential client.

government completely fucked this program up. its like kids trying to make this ultra cool videogame except their imagination greatly surpassed their ability.

its very disgusting.

It is also so very expensive and dwarfs other jets in cost which in turn helps to inflate the us military budget with equipment nowhere near the value of the price tag.

>newfags participate in their first f35 thread
Election season is over, you have to go back

It looks kinda cute desu senpai lam

we spare no expense on superior warplanes

it literally looks like a down syndrom version of the F-22

F-35 is a great plane, on paper.
However given the time it took to develop it and how much money they spent on it, having so much teething problems makes it a fucking failure of epic proportions.
We are talking about entire program, not plane as plane. It's literally a lesson how not to develop weapon systems.

Cost yes, but downtime no.

The F-35 requires so much maintenance for one hour of flight. It's at the point where it hinders the amount of sorties it can do.

The F-22 is more costly to do work on, but it needs roughly half of the maintenance time per hour of flight.

>1.5 trillion
no, that's not the actual cost of the jets. that cost includes:

>the jets
>the tooling
>repairs for the jets
>all ordinance
>all fuel
>all logistical support
>all training for the pilots and everyone else involved with the aircraft's service

right out until something like 2075.

see above

>too expensive
no, it was a dedicated stealth air superiority fighter and it turns out that in the current year you don't need many of those, the F-15 will do

yes actually for most intents and purposes it is invisible, why?

well, first of all the geometry of the plane is designed so that if you illuminate it with radar from any particular angle, most of the energy from your radar pulse will head away from you, not back to you. this on it's own lowers the plane's radar return a lot.

then the entire thing is covered in radar absorbing paint. even the cockpit glass.

then the thing has an amazing sensor system that meshes a bunch of data in from all of it's sensors (see OP's pic? it may be hard to see but notice how on the bottom of the nose there's a little glass protruding thing? that's a part of it's optical sensor system, kinda like an all direction FLIR if you will, almost) and other planes and other platforms. you can have one F-35 detect a target and send targeting info to a bunch of other F-35s within a few seconds.

you also have it's performance. it handles kinda like a mix of an F/A-18 and an F-16. you can point it in whatever direction you want and for the most part it'll stick to that direction. it also holds the full external loadout of an F-16 internally (ie complete stealth) with more fuel than an F-16 to boot.

cont

>A plane that's been in service for 10 years has better, more experienced maintainers than a jet that just entered service

Wow. Really makes you think.

That's not such a big factor as you imply it is.

cont

the stealth features of the plane aren't designed to make the thing totally invisible, but to prevent the enemy from getting a weapons lock (aka they know where you are, how high you're going, how fast you're going, and in what direction, and they can continue keeping track of this until they can get a SAM up your ass). the stealth features of the F-35 make this almost impossible when it's used properly.

and even if you could get a weapons lock, so what? you may have locked onto one F-35, but now there are 4 others with JDAMs who know exactly who you are, where you are, and what you're doing. if you're like the vast majority of our enemies who have shitty old soviet radar (i'm looking at you china, fancy paint doesn't count) you have signed your own death warrant and have handed it in.

after air superiority has been established, the F-35 can attach a bunch of munitions to it's external pylons, and will still have a better RCS than a stripped bare F-16 or F/A-18 to boot.

so yes, under almost all normal circumstances, the plane is invisible. and if it wasn't, so what? they're building over two thousand of the things. you shoot down one and you have a B-1B or B-2 headed for your ass with F-15, F-22 and F-35 support.

have a peak at this. it's a recording from an F-35 EODAS system. the triangles are targets.

People don't understand that, while they might be able to track the plane due to complex radar being able to detect it despite stealth features, they can only track it. They need to transfer that lock over the radar for a SAM or other weapon, which won't be as good.

How military industrial complex work:
1-give foreign aid to Israel
2-strings attached, aid must purchase US military hardware
3-tax payer money shifts back to jews in US
4-which in turns pays for american workers in a "broken window fallacy" method
5-this cycle can continue indefinitely until bubble pops

What pops the bubble depend on world factors and maby variables (oil, $$, stability, crisises, etc)

That being say, everything trump is doing is going to short a lot of military corporations stocks NOW, which is good if you're a new buyer (cheaper prices) . and the long run looks fantastic as trump transitions the military into more drone warfare/automation/police body cams and thats when you can make bank, the market is going to react super positive

noone cares. it's public knowledge that its purpose is to "disrupt the kill chain" but the critics keep saying hurr it's not 2fast enuf

B-but we just got it

>see above
I was talking about the F22.

I'm implying that the F-22 exists for the sole purpose of making the budget so fucking big, like taking a rock and putting a billion dollar price tag on it and saying that your military is therefore a billion dollars bigger as a result.

It's a decent jet but its not so amazing that its worth its immense price tag, it in effect over states Americas military power as people have been using the $figure as a measuring stick for might for a while.

This of course would backfire if they sold the f-22 it would show it up as not worth the money, which would show up the USAF as not as good as it costs.

"complex radar"

What? Passive detection methods ain't complex, they are the most straight forward - they have been used forever. They are just impricise.

Anyway, Russia and China have used passive detection systems for a long time. Remember that F-117 which was shot down in the 90s in Yugoslavia with Russian tech?

The F-22 is better, cheaper and has fewer maintenance problems than the F-35.

If the F-35 had been a free market program it would have been axed 12 years ago.

sorry, my mistake.

>This of course would backfire if they sold the f-22 it would show it up as not worth the money, which would show up the USAF as not as good as it costs
i'm pretty sure the reason they didn't export the F-22 was they didn't want our greatest allies over in israel to sell it like they did some other shit we gave them.

the F-117 wasn't shot down normally, what happened was this:

>F-117 gets assigned to bomb area
>commanders and planners who are supposed to route around AAA and SAMs stop giving a fuck
>F-117 pilot just starts taking the same route at the same time over and over and over
>he even opens his bomb bay doors at the same point every time
>crafty slav with a SAM system figures out that if they just fire at a specific point before the plane gets to it, they'll get a good hit right as the bomb bay doors are open
>slavs do it
>a meme is born

if the F-117 pilot even just started rolling dice to determine what time and what azimuth he would come in on his bombing runs the entire thing would have been avoided. if anything the F-117 shoot down is a lesson in not trusting your plane's stealth features too much.

Don't worry chosen people, even if the F-35 gets the axe, they will produce 200 just for Israel.

By the way, is there anything Germany can do for you? More submarines? More "mea culpa" speeches from our politicians? You want some free circumcisions by our doctors?

I believe you are confused. Passive sensor aint finding these things

Yes they do. Google it. Passive detection methods find every single obejct made of matter.

knowing that a plane is in a general area is not the same as knowing where it is exactly, and these systems you talk about are inherently slow, hard to manage and bulky. you may get something approaching a weapons lock, but before that you'll have already been bombed.

it will get returns. that's about the end of that

I hope this happens

Maybe we can bring back the Avro Arrow project

Lmao we'll bring F-14's back into service before that happens.

The probability that any congress cuts a military program that employs 35k people in around 40 states is almost zero.

The probability that the next congress will cut it is even lower.
If anything it will accelarate purchases if trump raises defence spending.

Of course a fuckng Aussie shilling for this piece of shit that you secretly regret buying

The piece of shit can barely out dogfight a 20 year old mig and the Russians already have a radar system that renders its stealth useless (which the chinks are in the process of copying

Trust me. Most of the f35 design team is fucking women and niggers. It's clear they cared more about how the plane looks than how it actually performs

>5 years behind schedule and counting
>so over budget that it's the most expensive military project since hadrians wall
>the US could have gone to Mars for this price
>all because they wanted to have a diverse design team based on affirmative action

Had the team been selected based on who was the most qualified and not based in diversity the fucking plane would have been out 5 years ago for a quarter of the cost and 5x better performance

This is obongos legacy folks. Sad!

all that effort and not a single argument

>dogfighting
Where's the bingo card?

there are a lot of things it doesn't do. it's clear that you don't understand what it does and was built for

>4-which in turns pays for american workers in a "broken window fallacy" method

Defence spending is not a broken window you cuck. Was the Hoover Dam a broken window? What about the Canadian Pacific Railway? I bet you think the Autobahn is shit.

The ability to project military power is essential for a nation. First, because it's an investment in a nation's territorial integrity, and second, because if you can project power elsewhere you can use it to ensure favourable economic conditions for your country.

When the United States gives money to Israel and tells Israel they must use it to purchase American products, they're just getting the greatest benefit from the least investment. Israel is useful for the United States, because it provides a guaranteed center of operations for Americans to project their power through the Middle East and protect the petrodollar.

Telling the Israelis they have to use the money to buy weapons from America is just min-maxing. They're going to support Israel anyway. Might as well do it in a way that's easier to track and more politically correct than just shipping tanks over directly.

>The piece of shit can barely out dogfight a 20 year old mig...

Even if this was true, which it isnt, when will you people accept that the era of dogfights is over?

Former USAF intelligence officer and current private sector military analyst here again.

The F-35 program has had its share of headaches and mismanagement along the way. It is indeed over budget and behind schedule.

That being said it's still going to be a very reasonably priced plan by the end of its life cycle. Development and initial deployment costs are only a piece of the pie. For a jet with a projected service life stretching to 2070, it will end up being cost-effective.

As far as abilities, anyone knocking the F-35 is ignorant on the subject matter. Stealth is a bonus, but is not the most attractive part. The electronics suite and sensors are amazing. The ability to effectively deploy modern munitions and its flexibility in utilizing future and near future munitions and weapons platforms is outstanding. Its ability to link with friendly forces makes it a flying nerve center. Its BVR capabilities are nearly unmatched, with only the F-22 providing a worthy challenge.

The F-35 is a beast of a combat aircraft, hands-down and anyone claiming otherwise would not recognize the modern battlespace from a hole in the ground.

>this graph
It's misleading in that it gives gun kills more legitimacy, because it includes all planes today, which includes old planea

In the theoretical war the f35 would be see its potential realized, gun fights would be near, if not actually, zero

Ah the daily F-35 thread.

Netherlands and Britain already have them for almost a year

F-35 is the lead of an unmanned autonomous front consisting of air drones, local weapons platforms and probably soon to be ground drones.

The fact that you are rating it against other jets shows you fail to understand what the point of it. The game has changed and everything else comparable to the f-35 is orders of magnitude less useful.

I miss the A-10 though, regardless of it's CAS viability.

Nothing makes a sand nigger shit his pants as an A-10 on a strafing run with the cannon, BRRRRRRRRRRRRRTT

The Air Force has repeatedly stated that they would keep the A-10 if they got more funding.

Well, now that we have Republicans in charge again, they're about to get more funding.

If they don't do what they said they'd do I think Trump will call them on it.

Exactly right. The fact it can loiter and provide extended firing solutions to a fleet of surface and air based platforms that lack the sensors and electronic suites to do so on their own makes it insanely valuable discounting its own offensive abilities.

F-35 detractors who speak to the jet in terms of gun-range dog fighting sadly don't realize how out of their element they are.

I don't need to bank or climb with you if I (and all my allied units in the AO) have a firing solution on you many nautical miles before you even know I'm there.

Plus most wings are
>muh sorties
>muh flight hours

oh fuck yeah,

youtube.com/watch?v=58QOBqAWNzE

think of the f35 as the equivalent of digging a hole, then filling it back in for economic purposes.

nice little injection of cash into american business

>3 trillion for a plane that doesn't take off half the time, kills pilots, and can't carry air-to-air missiles necessary to defend itself.
>War economy shills still defend it.

Nothing you listed is accurate though.

t. Pvt. Chang

The F-35 still can't arm the necessary air to air missles it needs because the fucking wings are too flmsy. It still has significant issues launching from an aircraft carrier. Last I saw it still can't fucking fly in the rain and it still hasn't been able to beat last generation fighter planes.

It's much better then that.

They also convinced half of Europe to pour hundreds of billions into the US economy.

>wings
Don't even get me started on fucking wings
fucking Depot sending the wrong sized wings which is only noticeable after a good week or two of ball busting work

Dude at least try to sound somewhat informed.

Sorry to advise that you are very uninformed. Stop taking shitposts and memes as facts for a start.

America should not produce any military technology. Then please everyone else can invade us.

don't you hate when you go down to the shops and buy some chicken wings and they're too small? fucking lockheed better compensate me for this

no.

>It's clear they cared more about how the plane looks than how it actually performs
then why it looks so ugly?

>What is the F-35C

>Anyway, Russia and China have used passive detection systems for a long time. Remember that F-117 which was shot down in the 90s in Yugoslavia with Russian tech?
The one that was shot down when it opened it's bomb bay doors after flying the same flight path day after day, after having the SAM commander volley fire his whole battery?

Seems to work really good and the newer craft are even better.

It is an ugly son of a gun. People should also realize the classified capabilities of the F-35's systems are fairly staggering. Much of that is relegated to US variants only, but the jet is a gen 4 killer through and through, not to mention what it brings to the table from a ground strike and battlefield intelligence standpoint.

Folks should think of it as a small AWACS, skynet, digital age air murder machine. It's an outstanding asset.

a plane that works?

do you think that everything the US does has to be done ahead of schedule, below budget, with no issues and more features than originally planned?

it had to fill the role of test bed and functional multi-role mate. if they were going to make dedicated test bed aircraft to make sure they could actually build the production F-35s right with absolutely no issues the first time around you would have killed yourself over the price already.

the plane is going to fail. things are not going to work. you have to do these things to get a plane that actually works in the end.

What else are the arm chair defense experts going to bitch about though?

Hell the V-22 was the most dangerous and worthless troop transport bird ever devised according to the same group. Then it hit deployment and went through GWOT with a higher safety rating than any transport helicopter in use.

Who would have thought research, development and refinement results in early failures?

Dude. I was referencing your comment about the wings, and yes, it's probably the only valid F35 model out there because it actually has a surface area to plane with.

fucking hell i need to get to bed i'm out of it

We should have ended the program the first hundred times lockheeb fucked it up, but now if we don't stay committed, we will have no modern fighter jets to kill sandniggers and possibly chinks with.

>This thread again