Communism

Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.

Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.

What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:

>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.

>Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."

>To acheive such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

ML uses a philosophy called dialectical materialism, see here:

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm

It is reccomended that you read some of the critical works of Marxism-Leninism so you can make an informed assessment of the ideology.

Resources:

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/sw/

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/decades-index.htm

marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/mar/11.htm

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Soviet_Union#History
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Better dead than red

nah, better red than dead.

I like how this saying actually highlights the fact that as a species we have only two options; socialism, or the end of us all.

For some reason, the people who say it seem to think that they would rather die in the chaos of capitalist decline than engage in building a new world.

Communist cult is all about production. Everyone is reduced to slavery and forced to work for the elite.
And the system is so inefficient that people in communist countries always starve to death.

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Off my board you pinko fuck

>Being a gommie in the current year
You had your chance and lost, accept that capitalism will be with us till the end humanity and move on.

> get out of my safe space

That is the most a-historical perspective ever.
Society has always changed and developed. Nothing lasts forever. That's not how reality works.

To be honest, cooperative work is not the same as communism.
In communism you give 100% of your gain to the state, and the state will return to you what he think is your just and equal share.

>capitalist decline

What does this mean

You lost, commies. Get over it.

But what if the state = the people. Genuine workers' democracy

It means the deep economic slump we've been in globally since 2008, the slowing down of economic growth and the rising unemployment and the falling wages and the political turbulence that results from it.

you useful idiots arent nearly as good at subversion as your marxist professors
SAD!

And you think global Communism is the only way to resolve this

not_an_argument.jpg

B..but muh it will work THIS time!

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>Black Book of Communism

Funny because the next stage after communism is always capitalism.

Yeah, of course it is.

Capitalist crisis occurs because capitalism is prone to periods of over-production, and rising unemployment and falling wages are a byproduct of this, lowering consumption even further. In a centrally planned economy, these issues don't arise. Learn2economics.

what's the hot new flavor of communism that wont work today?

a good communist is a dead communist

Heeeeellllloooooo there sailor!

How's the push for pedophilia going cause I am flaaaaaamiiiing for little boys!!

> this is what people think communism is

>out argue the opposition

Fake ideology followed by societys most naive bully victims.

>Communist telling me to 'Learn2economics'

You can't make this shit up.

Hierarchy is inherent in human society socialism is economically untenable and leads to commodity shortages that's not even mentioning all the people it's killed through maliciousness or basic economic mismanagement

Your candidate lost.
LOL.

>implying stormfags didn't raid this board way back when to subvert it

Goes both ways, Olaf

>Genuine workers' democracy
Off Topic

We are talking about communism, not small scale direct democracy like switzerland.

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COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE.

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this will literally get zero traction ever, everyone knows communism is a failed ideology

Sage

You know your ideology has failed...

>this will literally get zero traction ever
Funny. I'm sure Nicky said the same in 1916.

Pure communism is a myth.
You are inseparably tied with Fascism in the Hegelian dialectic. How does it feel being massive tools of the elite?

this

No but seriously m80 - even the most basic undergraduate economics class would tell you that overproduction leads to falling wages and unemployment. And any economic historian could tell you that capitalism is prone to crises of overproduction due to the anarchic nature of production in capitalism; it is not centrally planned.

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The only proper response to communist ideology pic related.

I doubt anyone on Sup Forums will actually read any of this.

Sup Forums is an echo chamber

> You are inseparably tied with Fascism in the Hegelian dialectic

Communism might solve problem with income inequality along developed nations, but the fact that it's still reliant of the monetary system means it cannot fix the problems involving climate change, technological unemployment and refugee crisis.

It's basically nation wide corporation based on moral philopsophy that needs to keep everyone employed, fed and healthy which is very vulnerable agains more fiscally competitive mixed economies under capitalism.

For a better socialist alternative google resource based economy or the zeitgeist movement.

>in a centrally planned economy this issues don't arise

hahahahahahaha

HEIL HITLER COMMUNISTS NEED TO DIE

T. COUNTRY THAT GOT FUCKING ANALLY DEVASTATED BY FUCKING COMMUNISM.

>But what if the state = the people. Genuine workers' democracy

Implying tyranny of the majority could not occur

What candidate? Shitlery? Or the other shit, Bernie?

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In 1916 no one actually knew what implementing communism entailed in reality so it still sounded like a nice idea.

sage

The book is pure lies.

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Why did those issues rise in the soviet union.

You Stalin is good now?

>democratic "socialist"
>our candidate
Nice.

Provide proof.

and that's much better than a system where the state artificially produces the price of things and ends up making the ones it claims to protect suffer the most.
Communism already failed, stop clinging to your stupid "everyone's equal" dream.
It's natural to have hierarchy everywhere you go and it's surely a myth that that you can depend on people to not abuse their power.
Also sage.

A national socialist. economically Nazi Germany worked.

Whoa... Is that an actually argument?

Of course it did! It didn't depend at all on the Jew loans it made to fund all its military expeditions huh?? The third Reich was debt free all the time, the documents are forged!!

replace communism with capitalism and you're onto something bud

Threadly reminder to sage all communist threads

sage

I was mostly just appealing to Nazis. I don't think it worked very well economically.

Certainly not because of over production.

And the Soviet Union never had any issue with unemployment. There were scarce resources, and wages were low, but there was high employment.

> The economy was characterised by state control of investment, public ownership of industrial assets, macroeconomic stability, negligible unemployment and high job security.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Soviet_Union#History

Cool. So it was just normal famines not overproduction famines.

Famines happen in capitalism all the time. You call them famines.

Famines happened in Soviet Russia. You call this communism.

Famines occur when resources are scarce; there can be a number of complex reasons for that.

Pic related

Español y comunista?

Das puta pena, y tu sistema retrasado nunca va a funcionar a no ser que el anarco capitalismo se implemente y el mercado libre decida crear el comunismo porque ya todos los ciudadanos son perfectos gracias a la seleccion natural aplicada por el mercado libre.

JÁ

I was actually agreeing with you.

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Sorry m80, thought you were sassing me

>YOU GUYS HAVE TO COOPERATE SO COMMUNISM CAN WORK GOSH WTF
>HOW CAN YOU EXPECT MY SYSTEM TO WORK IF YOU DONT OFFER YOUR SOUL TO IT
>GIBSMEDAT FOR FREE SO I CAN GIVE MY POPULATION FOOD BECAUSE THEY DONT ACTUALLY PRODUCE IT THEMSELVES LOL BUT ITS JUST A PHASE
>ONCE THE WHOLE WORLD AGREES WITH ME THEN MY SYSTEM WILL WOKR

the "communism" you think we are talking about (the kind that appeared in the USSR and Mao's China) is actually just a stepping stone into real communism. The idea is that there needs to be a vanguard party (Bolsheviks) to set up the system that will magically dissolve and form a true stateless and equal society. However, the vanguard party did not dissolve, but stayed in control, creating what was basically just state capitalism.

>magically disappear
>people will give their power up because well being of others
how can you guys be so naïve?

I don't believe it but I think the government could be stopped from being corrupt with checks and balances and an armed population.

>WORLD FAMOUS MEN of the past accused the Jews of founding Communism. This charge is well founded. The Communist philosopy was drawn up by Karl Marx who descended from a long line of Rabbis. His ideology of anti-Christian and Socialist thought is outlined in the Jewish “TALMUD” which is the “bible” of the Jews. Of the four political groups which overthrew the Christan Czar of Russia two were 100% Jewish. They were the Mensheviks and The Jewish Bund. The other two were the Socialist Revolutionary Party and the Bolsheviks. Both were headed by Jews but had some Gentile members. Today we now know that Lenin was Jewish and all of the leaders of his first government were Jews. They were Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev and Sverdlow. The wealthiest Jewish banker in the world at that time, Jacob Schiff of Kuhn, Loeb investment bank of New York City, gave Trotsky and Lenin $20 million to overthrow the Czar and establish the Soviet tyranny (according to the “NEW YORK JOURNAL-AMERICAN” of February 3, 1949.)

And a total surveillance state, which allows the population to monitor the government.

No but seriously do you think a capitalist country would survive long under those conditions? Every country needs to trade; you do not necessarily have the raw materials to make everything the 21st century human being considers necessary in your own country. Trade is vitally important to economic growth; it allows of specialization and thus more efficiency in production in specific regions. Any economy will collapse without trade. Being at war doesn't exactly help in the long term either. Seriously just learn2economics.

>When communism can only happen once anarcho capitalism has worked and the free marked collectively decides to create communism because they can because they're perfect via economic natural selection.

Socialists are so so wrong

That doesn't make sense. What do you mean?

>the government could be stopped from being corrupt with checks and balances and an armed population.
and where does communism fit into that?
nowhere..

A total surveillance state involves sousveillance. Every time somebody whips out a smartphone and films police at work, they are participating in a total surveillance state.

Things will be very different if people watch politicians with the same scrutiny as they do those that apply for unemployment.

Well, Marxists of the Leninist variety believe that the through the process of socialism and breaking down of capitalist ideologies and concepts taken for granted in a capitalist society, the state would soon cease to be. The conditions for the state breaking down is only achievable by implementation of socialism.

Are you retarded?

People with more power will always dominate over people with less power, what you're saying not only will never happen, but it's an invasion of privacy and basically 1984 all over again and turns humanity into heartless robots

fuck off

Socialism could be built into the constitution and everything else could be changed via elections or direct democracy.

>democratic socialism
I adore you.

That is something that you are assuming. I quote Marx,

>"Does it require deep intuition to comprehend that man’s ideas, views, and conception, in one
word, man’s consciousness, changes with every change in the conditions of his material
existence, in his social relations and in his social life?"

So the answer is, change the conditions and change how society acts.

The reactions to these threads are always retarded and, in the long-run, unbeneficial. Rarely is there actual arguments, just slogan shouting and strawmen on each side.

Regardless, this thread has a right to exist on this board, even if we do dislike socialism.

Is this sarcastic?

> talking about the 21st century
> a commie
sure kiddo

>being commies
>[current year]

It's a few steps in the direction of it.

Those are the first steps towards genuine working class democracy. Genuine checks and balances, the right of recall for elected representatives, a workers' salary for government officials, full transparency in politics, and genuine bottom-up community control over people's own workplaces and neighborhoods.

You sound like you're straight from Reddit, because you are.

Some of those were necessary.

>t. a commie