Universal Basic Income Trial in Finland

nytimes.com/2016/12/17/business/economy/universal-basic-income-finland.html

archive.is/alYkB

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aeon.co/essays/what-if-jobs-are-not-the-solution-but-the-problem
youtube.com/watch?v=QxUzTW5dM4o
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Now, the Finnish government is exploring how to change that calculus, initiating an experiment in a form of social welfare: universal basic income. Early next year, the government plans to randomly select roughly 2,000 unemployed people — from white-collar coders to blue-collar construction workers. It will give them benefits automatically, absent bureaucratic hassle and minus penalties for amassing extra income.

Continue reading the main story
The government is eager to see what happens next. Will more people pursue jobs or start businesses? How many will stop working and squander their money on vodka? Will those liberated from the time-sucking entanglements of the unemployment system use their freedom to gain education, setting themselves up for promising new careers? These areas of inquiry extend beyond economic policy, into the realm of human nature.

The answers — to be determined over a two-year trial — could shape social welfare policy far beyond Nordic terrain. In communities around the world, officials are exploring basic income as a way to lessen the vulnerabilities of working people exposed to the vagaries of global trade and automation. While basic income is still an emerging idea, one far from being deployed on a large scale, the growing experimentation underscores the deep need to find effective means to alleviate the perils of globalization.

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Are they ever going to come out and say it? That they want communism in Finland?

This is a good thing

it's not universal if there's a requirement (being jobless).

Good goy. You'll never have to work again. Finland will be the land of unlimited milk and honey. Don't worry about who has to pay for it. It's infinitely sustainable.

(((Goodman)))

>have to work
That's not the thing, the issue in the future will quite simply be that you can't work, since automatization will get rid of such a great deal of jobs.

>everybody becomes jobless
>somehow everybody gets money
Magic!

I don't get basic income.

if people get free money to provide for themselves.
Why bother working?

Looks like the days of working for the man are now finnished!

Universal income is one thing I can get behind from the political left spectrum.

I don't think left wing economic policies are innately bad, it's when they're thrown into a cauldron with a bunch of other left wing stuff including social policies that it becomes degenerate.

There's nothing more soul killing & degrading than having to travel to some welfare centre every week or two and have to explain yourself to them, over and over.

I think working is good and unemployment is bad, but there has to be some work life balance. We should have a 30 hour work week like Denmark.

>Everyone working less hours
>More jobs, less people unemployed
>Economy doing better as a result so slightly higher wage is a possibility
>Universal income works out too and could even cost less if not the same as welfare system because 90% of the bureaucracy and administration needs are removed from the loop, cutting out all of the middle guys & welfare tests & checks & fraud checks & potential crime and so on.

Well as a NEET here this would be my dream. Guarantee me with stability so I would have no concern taking on a low wage or creative job.

just like the tractor will make farmers obsolete

More money. The basic income isn't enough to actually prosper.

So that you get more money and more hookers

Wrong.

They will give unemployment benefit for life to a bunch of loosers to see what happen.

This is not UBI because, one, it is not universal, two it is not a basic income.

>We are literally going down the shitter because no money
>HEY, LETS GIVE EVERYONE FREE CASH


Nuke us already plox

AYOOO WHERE DA GIBS AT WHITEBOI

Yeah, because this is totally the same thing. A tractor still has a guy driving it. In the future there won't be a guy for that. Sure, there will be a guy to maintain it, but far enough into the future it'll be another robot or robots to maintain the robo-tractor as well.

Yeah, in 2200.

But it's better to get the free money right now, amiright?

I thought the ENTIRE IDEA behind UBI was that everyone got it regardless of whether they had a job. Otherwise it's just the same thing as welfare.

Why do you think it's an experiment, Francois? It's a far better idea to see if it actually works now, instead of in 2200.

Because they want a nice car and a house and holidays in Spain etc...

more money obviously. As I have been collecting welfare for five years now without working an hour I still do better than my friends who are into education, but far worse than my mates who are working shit jobs. It ain't bad though, I learned how to not dream about suicide everyday when I stopped going to work completely.

Yes, at the planning stage. But in reality UBI would do away with traditional welfare and all the bureucracy related to it, since everyone gets that amount of money.

>Ooooooh, so you're a bigot?

>Sorry, no universal income for you!

>O-ook, I'll stop being a bigot! Just give me money!

Accoding to commies, it should.

Oulu Mega City mentioned, gather at the store plaza everyone!

well no shit dumbass? You wouldn't be even alive to enjoy 2200

You completely missed the point, good job.

I really just want an apartment and groceries. Money for public transit, although I don't see why poor people couldn't get a discount on Uber Pool in partnership with the government. Some of us are too mentally ill to work to any profitability and disability is hard to get and requires no more than 2000 dollars of possessions at a time so it keeps you pretty impoverished and prevents you from aspiring to ever work.

>batting cages

baka desu senpai

aeon.co/essays/what-if-jobs-are-not-the-solution-but-the-problem

A good piece I read on this paradigm shift where we enter a society where maybe 2/3 of people work and the rest get paid for basically having a pulse.

The author is a little retarded about economics (tax the corporations out of all their profits and give the money to people ????) but he follows up later on with some neat points of view about future that is very real.

Eventually the socialists are going to get pissed off because some millionaire is going to get UBI, and they will want oversight and stuff, which basically means the welfare state will be implemented again.

this isn't universal basic income, its just unemployment benefits being payed more efficiently

And Commies are retards.

No, I didn't. I simply implied that you're wrong and fucking retarded, since full automatization completely removes the requirement of human labour and no fucking way can you employ everyone in the service industry. The fuck you going to do? Have to go through a dozen bureucratic agents every time you want to pay a bill? Ten people working a single counter in a shop?

How is this a bad thing? Does working for your jew bosses make your dick hard wage cuck?

Will read user, thanks!

This. It might be even worse than welfare if the efficiency doesn't go down.

Because you would get even more money then. The UBI would just be a supplement to your paycheck in that case.

>Everyone working less hours
>slightly higher wage
If your production goes down so does the buying power of the currency which would in effect lower salaries.

>More jobs
Has more to do with restrictions on the labour market than anything else.

Galtism is the answer my friend.

Don't fall for the wageslavery meme.

No, you fucked up by presenting a shitty example. Future jobs will be completely made up jobs to make people feel useful. There will be feelings counsellors, professional huggers, art tip givers, professional feedback givers etc.

Artificial intelligence is all that matters. Once a major breakthrough is made with enough computer-connected devices already in market, it will kill tens of thousands jobs in one year. Mark my words, it will happen.

Woo, Oulu master race

Do note that the free cash isn't all that much. Enough to get you by, but the fact is that money doesnt really motivate people after certain point and constant stress from poverty wont help you get a job.

>ubi
>must be jobless
Wut

>No, I didn't. I simply implied that you're wrong and fucking retarded
Not an argument.

>since full automatization completely removes the requirement of human labour and no fucking way can you employ everyone in the service industry. The fuck you going to do? Have to go through a dozen bureucratic agents every time you want to pay a bill? Ten people working a single counter in a shop?
Fails to address the central point.

Nice try, enjoy working 60 hours a week to support asylum seeking shitskins.

Production wouldn't go down just because the working week is shorter. A company can still run 24/7 with each employee doing 30 hours, it'd just need more employees.

>universal basic income

How about going back to farming your own land instead?

Seems much better an idea don't it?

With technology in the time of a need of basic income, you could probably extract more value out of a smaller piece of land, so there you go.

Sell produce for money to buy luxuries. There. Now you have a stable society that isn't hungry and unemployed. Or at war/instability due to a

>you get a car
>you get a car
>everybody gets a car

policy.

Finland, you must understand that me and my kind are going to go there and exploit the fuck out that offer.

The point of this is just to guarantee a minimum living standard for everyone. It's not gonna give you money to buy sofas and HDTV's whenever you wan't. People will still work.

The current system requires many social workers who controls and oversees everything. With UBI, we need a lot less of these.

Do you want me to just call out your post for not being an argument, or do you want to format your drivel into something comprehensible?

Because only 2000 people will get it. In my country, we call that a sample.

I haven't worked much in ten years and I doubt I am stable/capable enough to do so. At least a UBI means I am not held awake worrying about being homeless when my parents die. I do not expect to live in luxury. Apt, computer, phone, money for food and public transit.

>30 hour work week
That hasn't been passed and has only been suggested by our most socialist party.
Though the savings on things like daycares, health care etc. might be huge due to people having the time to take care of themselves and their families and less stress. We'll see how it turns out.

>what do you do for a living?
>im a professional NEET
What a time to be alive

implying tractorbot-9000 won't come equipped with self diagnosing and self repairing modules.

you ain't in EU, you ain't going nowhere. We still have that cuban rape ball team locked up for their wrongdoings

>farming your own land

And how are you going to be able to afford enough to buy land in western Europe without being a millionaire?

Universal basic income or "how to collapse the economy in 5 simple steps". I hope I can get out of here before things get bad.

Did you fail to understand the basic sentence which makes up my post or are you talking about all the greentext?

Because I'll admit the greentext was retarded poorly formatted drivel.

>i just want you to pay for me to shitpost on the internet all day and not have to contribute to society

And hopefully we'll have soldiers on the borders ready to shoot you folks.

Yes, that's what I was implying. I just formatted the post a little poorly.

Yes, absolutely. Far enough into the future it's going to be a modular, easy to take apart system with its own repair functions.

You get free money here either way, you just have to sign up for unemployment. This would just remove that

What the fuck, Oulu here too

Why are you unable to work? Are you disabled?

Do what I do, just do contract work for a few months at a time and live as a NEET the rest of the year. If you're frugal it's completely doable.

And here, the UBI fag finally reveal his true nature.

Enjoy it, in the next thread, he won't do that mistake.

I'd like to contribute but at this point I think I would need to be in some sort of program with other weirdos/NEETS to give me part time structure/work. I don't think working a McJob is an incentive for societal participation. UBI guarantees if I want to take a risk and do something creative I can.

Contract work of what sort? I'm too mentally ill to get along with others.

Actually there will be guy to maintain and control hundreds of tractors. The guy will likely control the robot to fix and maintain it as well.

Binary systems are generally bad at problem solving. They're much more effective at repeatitive tasks.

>just like the tractor will make farmers obsolete
This. What is your point? That robots will not make the owners of the factories and the manifacturers of the robots themselves obsolete? That we'll have an absolute elite overclass that controls everything in our societies? That the underclass that normally would have done the jobs replaced by the robots are now completely without work?

What point here did I exactly miss?

And who will pay the bill?

Yeah, until we get strong AI and the guy maintaining that shit loses his job and now there's a single guy just monitoring a dozen different AI systems.

>What point here did I exactly miss?
The fact you can't understand the basic underlying logic tells me you're the perfect drone, continue working 60 hours a week to support Achmed and Fatima with their 8 children.

You mustn't flee. You should fight for your Volk.

lol i'm not hugely in favor of basic income as I get more money from social welfare system now than I would get from experimental basic income. And i'm not ashamed at all because I just can't force myself to care if some middle aged cunt has to slave away to pay my living. World is full of choices.

But if you just want to sit on your ass and ejoy life, it's fine too.

So, who will pay? The few who take risks to do something productive?

youtube.com/watch?v=QxUzTW5dM4o

retards btfo

It will reduce the number of social workers needed. It's mainly just to simplify things and make it more effective. Not about saving that much money.

See, that's not an argument. Why is it you retards who memespout NOT AN ARGUMENT never are capable of actually forming your own, cohesive arguments and taking part in civilised discussions?

Are you people just stupid, or intentionally just fucking with people for enjoyment? I want to know, because stupidity is the one thing that makes me want to slap a nigger, but baiting is just fine.

why should I take the risk if the reward goes to NEETs?

>See, that's not an argument.

Not an argument.

>And i'm not ashamed at all because I just can't force myself to care if some middle aged cunt has to slave away to pay my living.
Wow. I do not expected so much honesty.

Unfortunately, you see, we live in democracies and the majority don't want to watch the world burn.

doesn't a minimum wage counter his point? Not that I think UBI wont be a long term disaster

Ideally I'd like to do something with my life, the reality is I might not and I'd like to not fear becoming homeless. I didn't ask to be mentally ill, I've tried all sorts of programs and medicines.

>Must be jobless

This is where they fail.

Now there is less incentive to look for a job.
The whole idea of UBI is to remove the financial barrier of getting a job.

Wasn't this idea already buried?

>See, that's not an argument.
No it was a statement, in response to a statement, keep up the top tier logic lad.

Web development.

Maybe try a night shift job if you want minimal interaction with normies.

well he is a fucking retard who can't speak his mind. Thats why he is constantly trying to point out some "argumentative mistakes" as they'd matter shit on Sup Forums lol

It is the point. I am waiting for the funland to answer but he already said he enjoy turning that guy into a slave.

>afford enough to buy land

>With technology in the time of a need of basic income, you could probably extract more value out of a smaller piece of land, so there you go.

Speaking of which, might be worthwhile to research current day possibilities, might turn out to be profitable.

what kind of web dev do you do/how much do you make?

Oh look, one of the memespouter retards who doesn't even understand what "not an argument" is about. Unscrew your head and shove it up your butt, okay?

Taking note of all your posts, you made a single original argument, then proceeded to shit all over the thread with your retardation once it was challenged. Calling you out on that is completely valid.

test

I've tried coding I'm terrible at it. That would be first choice if I could do it. My fine motor skills are kind of fucked.

Jesus Christ you're stupid. I'd debunk your stupid "argument" but you're not worth the energy I'd have to spend to prove you wrong. You're inferior to Abbos.

>once it was challenged
It wasn't challenged or addressed in any way. You didn't even come close to refuting it.

>UBI is a really bad idea now, so in a negative future situation with notable automatization and mass unemployment UBI is still a bad idea
?

Yeah, this is bait.