Mexico, Communism, & Liberalism

Why do Mexicans tend to be very liberal, and did communism attempt to spread there last century? I've never understood the link between liberalism and Mexicans in general.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lázaro_Cárdenas
vanderbilt.edu/lapop/insights/062011.PNUD_PELA_Report3.pdf
twitter.com/AnonBabble

1/?

There was a good president we had many years ago, Lazaro Cardenas, he was different from every other president in that he took the job seriously and implemented effective politics instead of just using the office for self benefit. However he was left leaning, got very close to the working class, and our history mostly remembers him from making the oil industry a public propriety.

2/?

making the oil industry a public propriety, was a good idea at the time, it gave the State a great amount of resources that it could use to invest in industries and quality of life, for the most part this is what he did. He preferred however worker's cooperatives to corporations as the private entities that would manage the industries and promoted the creation of labor union.

3/?

He also implemented "substitution of imports" and "stabilizing economical development" (translated from Spanish, those where probably his mos important policies). The idea of substitution of imports was that the country should only import goods that it could not produce, or could not produce in sufficient amounts, and that national industries, public or private, should be built so that they would produce goods of the kinds that we where importing so that the money obtained from the consumers would stay in mexico.

Stabilizing economical development is where the worker's cooperatives and unions would be implemented, the idea here was that the profits generated by industries should end up in as many hands as possible, this was to be achieved by making workers the owners of the companies, or by using labor unions to pressure the owners of industries, whether corporations or individuals, to give better right to their workers. the "endgame" of stabilizing economical development, was to rise the amount of money that went to the workers, who where BY FAR the mos numerous class in mexico, thus rising the general quality of life and the range of products available to them.

Gracias, user. Que lastima. Will Mexico ever embrace the free market?

I hope so, but it is like China, they have never had democracy so it is unlikely that they ever will, I often hear the phrase "they have no tradition of democracy"; we have no tradition of free market.

4/?

Now I won't bore you by telling you the entire history of mexico since the presidency of Lazaro Cardenas, I only mention it for background, it's important because it was mostly effective in achieving it's objectives and people remember that.

Two other things important to your question happened later, one was the cold war, during which the CIA intervened in south and central american nations by removing their governments (this part, to me, seems somewhat justified in that they where preventing the advance of international communism, some of those governments where aligned to it), this left a mark in the collective consciousness of mexico. In mexico itself no governments where removed but the government was heavily influenced by the CIA, it implemented neoliberal policies that where not beneficial to the working class and implemented some very ruthless counter insurgency tactics against left leaning groups (some where actual communists, they don't have my sympathy), torture, forced disappearances, internal espionage and the like. this repression also left a mark.

In resent years repression has somewhat diminished, but it is also widely known (or perceived), that every single president has been elected in fraudulent processes, also influenced by US intervention, the candidate mos aligned with US interests always gets elected, the election is always plagued by irregularities, and the population rejects the nomination.

The quality of life in the country has been steadily decreased, the working class is disenfranchised, government policies continue to fail, organized crime controls almost 50% of the territory and rules over it, in short, Mexico is a shitshow, and people blame the government and does not consider it legitimate.

The current state of thing is that we have a terribly incapable and corrupt government that serves (or is perceived to serve) only the individual interests of it's members and their families, foreign interests, and those of the organized criminals that pay bribes; we have leftists candidates that time and time again have had their electoral victories taken away from them, and whose policies may have caused economical disasters but we will never know that; and a population that is entirely disappointed by it's "right wing" rulers.

The result of all this is that the left socialism and even communism are very well received in Mexico.

The only silver lining is that nationalism is also making a comeback, however subtle it may be.

Look alive please, I don't want to feel like I was talking to myself all this time.

Both don't get shit done and build walls.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lázaro_Cárdenas

You're one of the few Latin Americans I've encountered that says CIA intervention was justified.

Impressive.

I think it was justified in it's objective, look at North Korea, ¿Who would want to live in a place like that?, the USSR wanted all of humanity to live like that, it had to be stopped.

However, I also think that it was needlessly inhuman, that it caused unjustified suffering, oppression and death, it may have prevented the USSR from having access to the resources and economies of south america, but for the people living under those dictatorships things would not have been substantially different under a communist regime.

bump

Thank you.

So with Trump now in, what affect will that have in Mexico? Will legitimacy and the will of the working class return like with Cardenas?

I think that's a fair criticism. Although the US has a slightly better record at accountability and human rights. I know everyone likes to point out how Chile's transition from military rule was handled well, but it's wishful thinking and cherry picking to say that was the norm.

Mexico has to be the most beautiful country in the world. It's such a shame that it's in shambles from corruption.

An important reaction from mexicans to the Trump election is a renewed sense of nationalism, caused by perceived animosity of the US electorate and Trump himself against Mexico.

I can only hope that Trump does decrease US foreign intervention, just by doing that he would help us a big deal.

Building the wall is a good idea for us too, more on this in a moment.

The biggest political problem we have, and you can see it in south america too, is that our political class is divided in two groups, in the left we have shit-for-brains morons that have not one single valuable idea or notion of how to rule a country, they know nothing of economy or any other related field of knowledge; in the right we have a bunch of nation-selling traitors and rats that have no other objective than to serve foreign and corporate interests and get bribes.

It may be too soon to say what does the future will be like, but the 2017 presidential elections will be a sideshitshow of clowns and freaks.

1/2

Trump is a real-state man, ¿how do they operate?, they have a house they want to sell, let say it is worth 1mil by itself. The real-state man will say to the buyer, "it goes for 4mil" knowing that he won't get that much, that he is exaggerating, but also that the buyer will negotiate. the buyer will say "I will give you 500k" knowing the house is worth more.

The real-state man won't get 4mil, the buyer won't pay 500k, but if the real-state man is the better negotiator he will get 2mil, if the buyer is the better negotiator he will pay 1.2mil.

¿See where i'm going?

Trump does not expect us to o pay for a yuge wall with machine guns and detectors.

Mexico is not liberal. There is a big difference between the politics of the people and that of the government. Mexicans are not liberals, they are socially conservative and devout Catholics, they are nationalist as fuck, they support nationalizing most industries instead of letting globalist corporations to exploit Mexico, they do support bigger government for the most part because they are poor as fuck and are trying to grasp at any helping hand. The government on the other hand is globalist capitalist, but really I dont know what Mexico's economic policies are. Seems like they get the worse from socialism and the worse from capitalism and mix it into one system that fucks the poor and working class. Pretty much what I am saying is Mexico is ripe for a Donald Trump type to takeover. The nationalism is there, a pissed off overworked working class is there and farmers fucked by globalism(NAFTA) are there.

He want's our government to negotiate with him for solution to the border problems.

Plural, problems. You know the problems you have in the US I will not mention those, but I agree that they exist and should be solved.

Our border problems are derived from the entrance of enormous amounts of money and weapons that end up in the hand of the Cartels. The Cartels are the biggest treat to Mexico right now, making the border impossible to penetrate without supervision would make it impossible for the Cartels to get their profits and weapons, thus weakening them substantially.

We should cooperate with Trump's plan of making the border impregnable.

This is true, always remember that he definitions of "left", "right", "conservative", "liberal" and the like are often radically different in different countries.

The problem is that the closest thing we have to a Donald Trump is this silly man, one of those leftist that I mentioned here:

Yes, Mexicans are not pro free market and are not big fans of capitalism and democracy because they been fucked by corporations and the elites for so long, but they are nationalist, traditionalists and socially conservative. Blue dog democrats if they were in the US

>As always the eternal el peruANO,waiting to see which side will win.
WE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS SINCE THE INDEPENDECE WAR. WE CAN KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT.

He is more like a Bernie, but then again both Trump and Bernie where really similar in many cases

>2010
Outdated as fuck

Thank you for all the effort you expended on this post, I learned very much and will screenshot! (on mobile tho)

Not much has changed, Mexico moved a little to the left

>Peru
>Left
They fucking wish lol

And I am glad to have been paid attention for once in my life.
Tank you for that.

From what i would guess is the following

(1) Mexico was built more on the European nation-state model, so the state had a more important role than in Europe
(2) Mexican revolution 1910-1920 was a major turning point, resulting in
(3) One-party rule (PRI) almost continuously till PAN victory in was it 2000. For the first part of its history, it was left leaning (PRI), and it remains fairly statist, in spite of all the reforms. PAN is the neon-liberal party tho (allegedly).

Mexanons can confirm or deny

t. universal /po/sci expert from Serbia

Still outdated you stupid fuck.
Fuck off with your meme maps.

>Argentina not slightly to the right
>Peru not center
>Brazil not center
>Venezuela not collapsing

Read the news instead of learning from shitty mspaint maps

>When you nut but she keep sucking

not sure south Americans seem to like communism for some reason

the only way to end the drug war in Mexico is to legalize drugs in the US. That wont happen soon, so Mex is fucked. discuss.

>for some reason
their rulling classes have been selling eveyrhting for pennies on the dollar, looking to pocket everything and move stolen money to miami or switzerland. US corps/US govt in service of corps were delighted with this (up until FDR it was overtly US govt serving its corps, like it was understoof as the point of having foreign policy, much more honest). the fucking commodity curse is strong in latam.

of course most patriots with time became left leaning or even communist.

This is how it's always been. They won't stop flooding here until the cartels stop. The left wants them, the right doesn't want to legalize drugs. Should just say fuck it and conquer/occupy Mexico as if it were a Middle Eastern country I guess.

...enemy of my enemy is whom i will support

Making the border impregnable would provide better results, it just has to be done in a more cost effective way than to build a 30 meters wall with high tech detectors and machine gun emplacements all along the borderline.

I would keep the high tech detectors however, the cartels often dig tunnels.

>Argentina is right wing
You are also not white

HOLY CRAP, KEK LOVES ME.

This Mexican fascist feels most honored and humbled.

Nice meme, surveys show most of Latin America is centrist. For example no socialist party has EVER won an election here in 200 years of history.

The only countries that elected communists have been Chile, Ecuador and Venezuela, in Cuba they took over by force of arms.

vanderbilt.edu/lapop/insights/062011.PNUD_PELA_Report3.pdf

We had elections fucktard, also center leaning to the right, not right-wing

spanish(muzzy) meets indigenous influenzas millions

>feels bad man

i'm muh libtard society now

yeah, but Peronism (initally) was left-leaning economically (Peron imitating Hitler) so were a number of agrarian movements, like APRA in Peru, or PRI in Mexico. A lot of those were statist and nationalist. Castro himself was statist and nationalist being going full gommie.
You cant just ignore those.

¡I stole the hat!

At least you know what you are talking about.
Much of Sup Forums would be "communist" if you use that criteria since they admire Hitler so much though. Early Peron was economically left leaning but strongly anti gommie.

a lot of Sup Forums is just pure chaos trolling or 100% teen edgelords, who like hitler bc normies hate him the most. so they all kinda ignore the "socialist" part of "national socialist".

this board was a lot more libertarian before the stormfaggot invasion. member ron paul 2008? the man in its habbening gifs?

Kahlo was jew but Mexicans tend to be liberal because they consume whatever American media sells them

/thread

I remember.
It seems the IQ level here has decreased since those times. There was trolling back then but you could have serious political debates from time to time.

Old Sup Forums was intelligent people pretending to be idiots, now it's idiots pretending to be intelligent.

God, this, so much this. You could actually learn something.
Still proud to have fought in the meme wars tho. We did well.

>gif
>doesn't move

k

meh, it's what Sup Forums is using, I guess it needs less space than png.

(You)
>It is often said that Lázaro Cárdenas was the only president associated with the Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) who did not use the office to make himself wealthy. He retired to a modest home by Lake Pátzcuaro, Michoacan, and worked the rest of his life supervising irrigation projects and promoting free medical clinics and education for the nation's poor. He also continued to speak out about international political issues and in favor of greater democracy and human rights in Latin America and elsewhere. For example, he was one of the participants in the Russell Tribunal for investigating war crimes in Vietnam.

>le ebin legalize drug memes
It work for marihuana because even your mom can grow it. any other drug requieres chemestry equipment and don't get me started om the raw material that onle grow in SA,Africa and Asia

> like APRA in Peru
APRA is kill, Alan Garcia is polical dead body now and once he dies the party is over.

...or the effects that those drugs would have in the social fabric and communities, no one wants to see meth zombies eating the faces out of people becoming a normal thing, and opiates are more destructive, even if they cause less conspicuous violence.