Okay Sup Forums so I come to you today because I take it that this is undeniably the best place to discuss the policies of Barack Obama in the most objective manner..Is Alan Dershowitz correct?
So if I give you JFK, LBJ, and George Dubyah as terrible foreign policy presidents, how exactly does Obama make it into the same category? Is the bar just set *that* high and Obama falls drastically short? Or: have Obama's policies really been that bad in themselves?
I acknowledge his shortcomings (the red-line, selling arms to syrian rebels w/o vetting, alienating some US allies, namely Philippines). However, Obama facilitated the raid on Bin Laden's compound, supported the Arab Spring (which, intention-wise wasn't such a bad thing, not his fault it failed..though maybe the strategic case could have been better), opposed undue Israeli influence, weakened ISIS supply lines, strategic drone strikes, sanctions on Putin for supporting Assad, etc.
There are some other cases that don't seem to be clearly good or bad such as lifting the embargo on Cuba and the Iran deal (you're pretending if you think this was *clearly* bad).
I'm sure that I'll get some resistance on here with respect to my judgment on Putin and Iran, but it isn't clear to me that Obama will be one of the worst.
He created ISIS and started a new cold war with russia.
Adrian Williams
He wasn't the "worst" in anything or the "best" anything imo
he did a good job with using the drones and not putting tons of boots on the ground in syria and spending more trillions, I know that
Isaac Flores
He was also the worst domestic. BLM should have been stopped by trump immediately
Connor Cruz
>Alan Dershowitz says Obama will be "One of the Worst Foreign Policy Presidents in History" because he said 'no' to Israel.
Kevin Diaz
Why did it auto correct to trump
Michael Jenkins
you must be young or historically challenged if you think he started a new cold war with russia
also the real blunder was bush invading iraq in the first place
Ayden Jackson
>So if I give you JFK, LBJ, and George Dubyah as terrible foreign policy presidents Didn't JFK remove Russia warheads from Cuba without starting WWIII?
And what's wrong with George W Bush? His approval ratings were actually very high. They were faked by the MSM just like they lied about Hillary Clinton. GWB wasn't supposed to win his second term because the polls indicated he was unpopular.
Still believing the Jewish media?
Jordan Stewart
I don't think Obama was Bush bad, but I didn't live through LBJ or JFK, so I couldn't tell you. Bump for interest.
Adrian Peterson
No he did. And what does bush have to do with this lol
Eli Foster
Probably cause more people gave bush shit than obama and you just don't remember the shit Obama did.
Dominic Long
Invading iraq is what ultimately caused the power gap and allowed ISIS to become powerful (it existed before obama but it wasn't that big).
give me examples of this "cold war"
Ethan Ramirez
>destabilized Syria >destabilized Libya >didn't fix Iraq leaving a power vacuum that fueled ISIS (the aid to the Syrian rebels didn't help) >Russian-American relations are worse than they been since the Cold War
Did Obama do anything right in terms of foreign policy? Besides killing Osama? Pretty ironic that he was given the Nobel Peace Prize for bringing peace to the Middle East but left it in a worse state than we've ever seen it.
Landon Morris
>Invading iraq is what ultimately caused the power gap and allowed ISIS to become powerful There was no power gap until Obama arbitrarily decided to pull troops out
Connor Morris
>how exactly does Obama make it into the same category? Reset with Russia - Failure Assad must go - Failure Syria Red Line - Failure Color revolution in Ukraine - Stalemate Afganistan - stalemate Yemen - Failure Libiya - Failure resulting in destabilisation of EU Israel/Palestine - Failure, spend 8 years protecting kikes only to flip on it last day Iran Nuclear deal - Success, followed by congress undoing it via sanctions Parris Agreement - Good, but essencially toilet paper
He is far from the worst, but it was pretty bad.
Jackson Edwards
kek your phone and all has fired the nig
Ryan Hill
> because I take it that this is undeniably the best place to discuss the policies of Barack Obama in the most objective manner
LOL, no. Just no.
This place is not the best place to objectively discuss politics, there really are no places like that on the internet tbqh.
Brayden Scott
Yes, on Russia, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, fucking IRAN, China...the refuge crisis, the immigration crisis, UN global warming bullshit, there is not a foreign policy issue he has been correct on.
Of course Kike Dershowtiz is just butthurt about the (again, wrong) vote on Israel.
James Hughes
bush signed the agreement for the withdrawal date of the troops, it just occurred under his presidency
lmao
Carson James
Nope. Pulling out of Iraq is what led to Isis. If we would have finished the job isis would not have come to exist. Obango thought it would be a good idea to turn Iraq into Vietnam 2.0. He did very well at that.
Jayden Gray
Bush was objectively worse than Obama significantly on foreign policy
Lied his ass off about WMDs and created ISIS
Julian Garcia
Spooky
Logan Campbell
I forgot some. Creation of ISIS and loss of control over them - Failure Nuclear non-proliferation - Failure Alleged cyberwar with russia - Failure
Cameron Reed
good summary, lots would disagree with the nuclear deal. There were some bad parts to it, but considering the complexity of the negotiation and the fact that it included arabs, he did pretty good.
Blake Williams
You must be really young to be mixing Bush and Obama like this.
Brody Rivera
Sorry I don't watch Fox News like maybe you do kiddo
Bush dosent get a free pass because he's Conservative
Gavin Morgan
You forgot his pivot to Asia, which we are still waiting for it to be fruitful in any way.
David Martinez
/thread
Lincoln Cox
But he never stuck up a middle finger to Israel. (((They))) control the narrative. They control how history is publicized.
Hunter Hughes
Oh so you just watch CNN? That explains everything.
Camden Moore
>created ISIS Bush sew the seeed, obama added sunlight and water by withdrawing troops.
Yeah, it's by no means perfect, but managing to get so many bastrads to agree on anything is singularly impressive in my book
Yeah. I probably forgot few other things too
Kevin Morris
(((Alan Dershowitz))) is a fraud and a fool. Why would you ever post this kike's opinion on this board?
Christopher James
Obama was terrible on foreign policy but Alan only gives a shit about muh Israel
Luis Butler
>And what's wrong with George W Bush?
t. 14 year old
Gavin Price
Christopher Hitchens warned Obama that if he picked Hillary Clinton as his SOS that he would never have a minutes peaces in foreign policy...He was the only person on the left that told the truth about the clintons
Ryan Brooks
His pivot to Asia is pretty important to us in the states. We have many allies in Asia that he pretty much has ignored for 8 years while trying to suck chinese cock. Of course he has nothing but mad allies to show for it.
The nuclear deal was also pretty fucked too. Practically paid everyone involved to go along with it, and still got his ass in a bind.
Adrian Johnson
oh come on, don't fall for the "he created ISIS" meme. That's an ambiguous formulation anyway.
Dylan Smith
what could Obama do to stop BLM?
Robert Turner
That or a brainwashed faux news viewer
Jack Rodriguez
Obama choose to increase the number of troops in Iraq under Bush's advisement. Obama made the decision to pull troops out. When you invade a country, you don't let the losers tell you when to pull troops out, idiot.
Elijah Butler
Iraq. Bloody Iraq.
As for JFK, he placed us into Vietnam with one of the worst strategic cases for war one could imagine.
Isaiah Parker
Publicly denounce their lawlessness, but he is too scared to because "that could be his son!"
Jaxon Morris
Use the justice department....The Ferguson riots destroyed the home prices of that entire city...They stole the wealth of an entire city
Landon Taylor
For starters not invite them to the white house Also he could of stood with the police instead of vilifying them like the community activist he is.
Parker Miller
>brainwashed I'm still waiting for you completely "non-brainwashed" millennials to give an argument
Camden Rivera
Obama did the right thing. Israel has to learn that if you keep pushing the Palestinians out, then we won't get pulled in to help Israel over it. If Israel can't exist on its own, then its foreign policy with the Palestinian authority and abroad is the business of the US government.
Camden Morgan
>t. someone that has never watched fox news
Landon Smith
Gwb set the bar so low. And he managed to trip over the bar.
Oliver Murphy
Christopher Hitchens explains it best at 19 minutes of this vidya
>so underage he doesn't remember Bush's presidency >tries to turn the table when called on it
Doesn't work that way.
Luis Perry
Remember his world apology and bowing tour when he first took office? Not many do but that was the first sign he was going to be a terrible president.
Julian Parker
A little point - if he didn't knew what will happen during Arab spring, then he is staggeringly incompetent and in no position to berate Trump as unqualified. Given that Clinton has purposefully sabotaged cease fire negotiations in both Lybia and Syria, I highly doubt he was unaware of the effects it will have.
Gabriel Johnson
I think that Kissinger observation on him underlines why all of this happened. He said Obama saw America as "Sui Generis" - something unique, adult among children, god among man. American exceptionalism at it's worst basically. But also he is an Idealist. So put those 2 together and you have an administration that doesn't want to use hard power because it's afraid to fuck up, again, yet excercises soft power in a manner that's not dipomacy, but dictatorship. Expecting all regional powers to just fall in line, because america already won. Well, hubris is a slow and insidious killer, and payback is indeed a bitch.
Luis Howard
Yet you still give no argument
Jayden Long
>try to mend the multitude of fences burned by GWB >DURR APOLOGY TOUR!
Bentley Bell
>supported the Arab Spring (which, intention-wise wasn't such a bad thing, not his fault it failed..though maybe the strategic case could have been better)
The Arab Spring consisted of islamists.
They were islamists. He was trying to put islamists in power.
They were not secular. He was trying to replace secular dictatorships with islamists.
Then, he destroyed Libya. That's a country-sized notch on his belt.
Joseph Taylor
I can read history though. Don't lob up ad hominems like that.
Mason Ross
Dwight D. Eisenhower brought us to Vietnam. Kennedy escalated the position. Johnson committed the hardest Sorry I missed the part of you telling me why Bush was bad .
Brody Lewis
You already outed yourself as underage b&, why would I waste my time indulging in your dilatory tactic?
Jews are so butthurt that Nobama won't kiss up to them.
Well trump will restore the order though, gotta kiss the jewish foreskins. XD
Mason Stewart
>Iran Nuclear deal - Success,
Only a Commie would think this
Ayden Rivera
I think you have no idea what you are talking about, mate.
Jacob Martinez
He sided with AL FUCKING QAIDA in Libya and with ISLAMIC FUCKING STATE in Syria, and drove the Phillipines and Russia towards China. Is that enough of a fuckup?
Alexander Howard
Now be clear with me, by "Islamist" do you mean 'fundamentalist muslims' or 'jihadists?' Or do you not make a distinction?
Luke Morgan
He gave the state dept. to a woman who sold access and spent the entire time with the backing of the power of the United states pushing monied interests...Symbolic UN bullshit will never make up for this.
Josiah Richardson
see
Adrian Powell
He could stop being a little apologist bitch and stop trying to justify the chimping. He apologized for Trayvon's death, he apologized for Mike Brown's death, he apologizes for every single muslim retard who goes full jihad. The rise and acceptance of anti-white and anti-police sentiments in this country is almost entirely his fault because he refuses to call out niggers for agitating the police or muslims for believing in violent backwards bullshit, and actively encourages those groups to act violently.
Jayden Lee
Fair enough. Whoever put us in Vietnam and escalated it should be implicated. The list I provided is variable, but general enough to make my point.
Camden Thompson
>fences burned by GWB I have terrible news
Camden Russell
Just in case - are you guys talking about your nazi niggers or some foreign policy matter that I'm unaware of?
Mason Brown
Literally every foreign policy decision his administration has made has put the US in a worse strategic position, so yes that's accurate.
Gavin Thomas
Are you so pathetic you can't even make a single argument about why GWB was bad? All you do is spout irrelevant comments and ad homs to avoid a debate like a typical leftist millennial with no real arguments of of his own
Cooper Walker
Not invite them into the white house dozens of times, for starters. Also they should be investigated to see where their money is coming from and because it appears they have violated the Riot Act on several occasions by organizing riots across state lines.
Angel Anderson
I see the Iran deal as a deescalation tactic. Given the coup of 1953 and resources exploitation of the 60s-70s that led to the revolution, I think we owe Iran a thing or two.Of course, their being fundamentalist muslims, doesn't warrant them their cake and eating it too, but it we owe them *something* The start IMO is to distance ourselves from zionist opposition to Iran. Hezbollah =/= Iran.
Ian Martin
So a known State sponsor of terror is allowed, via the agreement, to develop bomb grade nuclear fuel,a dn they do not have to allow any independent inspections of their site; and they do not have to all any Americans to inspect their reactors. PLUS, Iran has no need for nuclear energy. It's all a cover, but just go away and keep your head in the sand.
Logan Wood
>I see the Iran deal as a deescalation tactic. If that's the intent it's had the exact opposite effect. Iran is just more bold now because it knows the US under Obama will accede to it's demands.
Brandon Morales
He fell out with
> Russia > Philippines > India > Israel > EU
Destroyed the political harmony of Europe by invading the ME.
Zachary Lee
At There Fucking Funeral
Ethan Walker
>I think we owe Iran a thing or two.
When it comes to nuclear proliferation- The US owes no Country anything.
Luis Carter
We somehow red herring-ed into domestic policy. I just wanted to clear up how Obama could have denounced Black Lives Matter.
Charles Powell
He didn't invade the middle east. He destabilized it then sat back and watched the carnage it caused on the entire Eurasian continent.
Andrew Ross
>State sponsor of terror This applies to literally every nation that's at or above regional power status. You know this, right? This includes you by the way. As I said, it's a flawed fair, but it's better than more nukes on the map.
Juan Foster
>still trying to goad me after I already told you I wasn't going to waste my time NOT AN ARGUMENT!
Nathan Miller
Oy vey goyim. It's Bush's fault!
Joseph Perry
Don't forget Britain. Also basically all of our allies because they're going to be less trusting after seeing what he did to Israel.
Charles King
Well, yeah, because as someone on here mentioned, the congress was like "hell nah we're not doing this deal." So it didn't have time to gestate. The intent was fine IMO.
Mason Peterson
>>State sponsor of terror >This applies to literally every nation that's at or above regional power status.
Well I guess I should have qualified my response better. How's this:
IRAN IS THE WORLD'S LEADING STATE SPONSOR OF ISLAMIC TERROR.
Gavin Hughes
...
Jordan Hernandez
Nah mate, that would be you. Than goes Sauidis, than Iran.
Joshua Long
>still trying to goad me after I already told you I wasn't going to waste my time Yet you keep replying faggot
Xavier Stewart
I'll need to see some evidence that Iran is looking to develop a nuke, one. And two, Israel has something like 60 nukes pointed at Tehran (or at least they did according to Colin Powell), so I can understand why they'd want one. Futhermore, the university system in Iran isn't half bad, and it has always spearheaded the idea that Iran should be energy independent. Dry up the oil wells, and ween themselves off from fossil fuels onto nuclear.
Does this sound naive, maybe a little. But with the right leadership in Iran, we won't need to worry about them developing a nuke. That's why the deal was such a moderate one. We know the risks of allowing them to develop nuclear capabilities.
William Carter
Im too drunk to write out anything of merit. But one point I will say is by destroying Libya and funding jihadists, he has essentially created IS and caused the massive migrant crisis in Europe via North Africa. He really really fucked up here, the repercussions are still happening right now and look to get worse.
Sebastian Kelly
Ayy you stop killing cops, If you being doing that you ant no BLM senpai. Marin Luther King all sad an shit
Adam Thompson
Obama's a shit president; this much is true. But the only reason Shekelwitz has any issue with him now is because he did something to hurt Israel's widdle feewings. These kikes were suckling his taint up to that point.
Carter Wright
>Iran Nuclear deal - Success, followed by congress undoing it via sanctions
So Failure
Bentley Walker
>It's Congress' fault that the deal is shit and gives Iran everything for nothing in return
Nope.
Oliver Collins
>selling arms to syrian rebels w/o vetting
>be American citizen >to buy a gun from an ffl you must submit a 4473 to the feds >be random allahu ackbar >the feds sell them to you directly without anything
Really makes me think.
Hudson Moore
Don't forget he allowed the Muslim Brotherhood to take office in Egypt.
Kayden Adams
t. obama
Kayden Gray
I'm not worried about Iran nuking anyone I'm worried about them increasing their regional influence and being able to viable threaten the Hormuz. Israel keeps them in check. That's always been US foreign policy post war world 2, maintain the balance of power in various theaters to prevent a single hegemon from arising which could potentially challenge us.