Pic related. I've worked for several months collecting what constitutes a redpilled reading list of Roman history. It should prove useful to those of you interested in parallels to the modern world.
Redpilled meaning that all of the authors are either Christian or don't comment on religion. They have no history of liberal remarks, and some have even taken heat for their comments, although they remain at the tops of their fields. They only use the BC/AD designations. None of that BCE/CE kike shit.
>look at muh books I never read I'm such a le expert xDDD
fuck off pseudo intellectual cuck
Hudson Watson
Getting a bunch of books. What would you suggest for someone who wants to know what happened in Rome but has yet to learn anything about it. Some entry level stuff
I added this to my cart but idk you would would know more
Zachary Gonzalez
>Gibbon's Decline and Fall conspicuously absent
Eli Walker
Literally this Op probably just got those books for christmas and now wants to parade to strangers how "intelligent" he is Fuck off :DD
Mason Baker
So why did Rome fall? I've heard a million and one answers. Was it diversity? One of my Uni profs once suggested to the class diversity killed Rome and then quickly stated that it "could never happen in Canada" with out any further reason. So what did it in your opinion?
Eli Scott
They imported a crapton of cheap foreigners and put all the pleb Roman citizens out of work. Without a vibrant middle class the economy couldn't support the overhead of the Empire, please stopped joining the army so more foreigners there, eventually a few big waves of uneducated, uncivilized, largely criminal immigrants completely overwhelmed them.
Adam Torres
Literally diversity killed it. There were other factors that helped it decline, but ultimately it was the barbarian Goths who sacked Rome and declared themselves the new emperors, thus ending the Western Roman Empire. The Goths were let in to the empire and given empire land and money in order to escape from the Huns and help Rome fight them, and then the Goths turned on Rome and took it.
Jacob Ortiz
Fucking autocorrect. s/please/plebs/
Kevin Wood
This fucker doesn't even have an abridged version. OP is a faggot.
Jayden Carter
Rome by Woolf, in my picture. Its broad but detailed. The Twelve Caesars is not bad either but covers only the founding of the Empire. I'd also recommend looking through Adrian Goldsworthys books for something broader than the one in my pic, which is obviously only late Rome.
Carson Hill
Ancient history has been an interest of mine for the past 20 years.
This is the best history book on Rome that I have read.
How does it compare to KJV and NRSV (or is it actually the NRSV)?
Brody Sanchez
Dont be idiots. Gibbons is very outdated and discredites pseudo research. Theres no reason to read it unless youre interested specifically in the history of Roman history research. He's a meme, and anyone would tell you that. I struggle to see the point in reading research that's old and outdated...
Cooper Kelly
Its the RSV second edition. Its similar to the two you mentioned and is based on the KJV but it includes the Catholic books that Protestants dont use.
Tyler Jackson
Id recommend the Peter Heather book in the OP pic. Basically yes diversity killed it. They accepted some refugees and broke with an immigration policy that spread immigrants out and forced them to assimilate. The parallels are very clear
Elijah Rodriguez
Best Roman Historian of the past 500 years, calls him a meme.....................iz u stupid?
Kevin Bell
I think op has down syndrome or a severe case of fedora symptom
>"he he guys look at my books I won't ever read xDDD"
Logan Scott
Are you trolling? Where did you get the idea that its some authoritative book? It was definitely a big deal but if its not correct information what is the fucking point? If youre not being a meming faggot explain your point bc I dont get it
Wyatt Thomas
Interesting, I wasn't aware of the apocrypha controversy until just now. I'm new to the bible and want to read it.
Cooper Turner
Having read all of that, what is your take on why the empire declined and fell?
Caleb Brooks
why don't you have shit like meditations the republic and pliny?
Elijah Mitchell
Sounds like Europe today.
Connor Moore
Did diversity killing it?
My view is that to maintain the level of civilization they had to annex and loot a neighboring kingdom of some wealth each generation.
Eventually conquest was not bringing in any profit.
The big failing was not making the leap into an industrial revolution. Maybe they were not interested in labor saving technology when slaves were so cheap?
Hunter Morales
If you like the roman empire read some Ben Kane books. Actually preety good novels
Mason Young
Im thinking of converting to Orthodoxy but they would use those same books. The idea is that Catholic and Orthodox use the Greek version of the Scripture. Luther wanted to cut some out that werent in the original Hebrew. And a few others that were theologically problematic. They still hold onto those books kinda as apocrypha like you mentioned.
I agree with the Catholic argument for the reason that the Greek version is what was used by the original Christians including, for instance, St. Paul, who wrote most of the New Testament. He didnt see the problem that Luther did, and frankly thats good enough for me.
KJV is a good read though. Thats why I got the one I did. The main Catholic one, NAB, sucks. Stick with one thats at least conservatively translated like mine. The Douay Rheims is good too. There are a lot of meme bibles out there so be careful.
Not sure what Orthodoxy uses actually. Maybe someone else can weigh in
Josiah Cooper
People often underestimate how the devaluation of currency and debt started (or at the very least helped greatly to start) the downward spiral. Stefan Molyneux has a nice vid on it, and it certainly has to play its part.
Justin Perry
>meditations This. Meme. Needs. To .END. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Robert Mitchell
>implying Christians will ever be unbiased about the Empire that they stole on someone's deathbed "conversion"
Jackson Cox
They transitioned away from looting at the beginning of the empire. Hence ni more expansion. They squeezed as much as they could out of an agricultural economy and it worked. It really was mostly external forces, ie barbarians. Everything else was sustainable.
They would have graduated to industry had they survived. They were too notch engineers, esp with military shit.
I actually do have meditations. Just not in the picture. Republic is Greek though, not Roman ;3
Austin Johnson
Dude come on one of those authors is a fucking kike, and there are probably more but I just can't parenthesize them right away.
These are like pulp history books
plus
>Fagels Aeneid >Inconsistent translation of Virgil for the Georgics
m888888888888888888888888888888888888888
Lattimore or bust.
Justin Anderson
Try pic related
Evan Mitchell
Constantine didnt convert until his death, but he made the transition to Christianity deliberately. It had little net effect on the Empire. His reasons for adopting Christianity are complex, but generally he saw it as a cool new thing that was philosophically hip.
Easton Powell
Orthodox use nkjv
Isaiah Jackson
>Lot of meme bibles out there I noticed that as well. I really want to avoid them when I pick up a bible so I will take your advices into mind when I make my choice.
Christian Scott
Which one is a jew? I hope you dont mean Goldsworthy bc he is a professed Christian.
I thought Fagels translation was pretty decent. I wanted to get more recent translations over older ones, which o figured I'd revisit later.
Lattimore for Georgics?
Tyler Cooper
I have 3 Bibles. NRSV and NKJV study Bibles, and the lattimore translation of the NT. It's fun to read and compare
William Cruz
KJV user the modern versions distort the wording and have even eliminated certain verses
Nathan Allen
Lattimore didn't translate Latin you mongs.
Fagles is an excellent translator.
Angel Lopez
I saw someone mentioned the Lattimore in another thread. I am familiar with Lattimore as an author. Is there a specific reason his version is good, or more good than the KJV?
Jacob Bennett
KJV isnt the only one that preserves the original though. The Standard Version line follows KJV for example anyway.
The KJV is important historically as one of the cornerstones of the English language, even beating out Shakespeare. But theres no reason to read it over the Douay Rheims or the RSV otherwise.
The NRSV is a libshit translation that uses gender neutral language though.
Thomas Thompson
Which is the least cucked? Yeah KJV is top of my list so far. Plus i'm pretty sure its the one where I will recognize certain quotes and stuff
Nathan Powell
NRSV is liberal bullshit. Otherwise decent.
Aaron Edwards
>libshit translation that uses gender neutral language
God damn it I hate that shit. I picked up a copy of Zarathustra from my library and every instead of 'overman' was changed into 'over person'
Jace Bell
So are Italians really the decendants of Rome or nah?
Are they really all turk rape babies?
Robert Roberts
Yeah i was very careful in picking out mine for this exact reason. Its also one of the last straw moments for me when i learned how the NAB in Catholicism does that too. Plus it has this mundane, rote translation with no sense of poetry. Thats the main positive of the KJV. I dont know why Protestants insist its so amazing for historical accuracy. Its no better than many others, so dont get it for that reason alone. There are better reasons to read it.
Leo Thomas
They among the some Persians discovered how the Jews/Hykos/Hebrews managed to single handle the Egyptian elite and allie their people in. The techniques they used was via controlling a network of priests of Amon, military generals, to then mix the royal family. They were the ones who imposed the "sun god" to introduce then to monotheism and let their priesthood have the religious power monopoly. It failed and following dynasties mass genocide them. It was until Alexandria and Roman occupation will the Jewish organization hijacked again the Egyptian society.
Do you think christians were persecuted just for believing in a another God or due monoteism features? They knew about Jewish vertical control over their dogmas in the past and it was seen as a terrorist network in the past were priest and pagan priesthood didnt have power at all. But christians were organized, obidient to the pope and officials, and evangelic.
Parker Adams
Trips of truth
Yeah I don't know what's up with the catholic church. I think they are cucked nowadays but I don't know my stuff when it comes to Christianity in general yet. Still learning.
Anyways back on Rome, which one of those books is the best 'first' one to read for someone who doesn't know anything about Rome other than the fact that they rose and then fell.
Levi Gonzalez
Lattimore is better with Homeric Greek, but his vocabulary is rich and unique and can be very powerful... You won't read any other Bible with his diction.
Lattimores
NRSV gets a lot of heat for being cucked but their rational isn't too bad if you read the notes in the Oxford study Bible. It's worth having for the annotations alone.
Soon I'll be getting Robert Alter's old testament translations, the Jerusalem Bible, and the Didache Bible.
Maybe I should just learn Hebrew
Jonathan Johnson
Pls respond
Leo Lewis
That is the eternal dance of our races
Grayson Flores
Why not learn old greek
Gabriel Fisher
>Not wanting to be a crypto-kike
Destruction from within
Oliver Brown
They destroy themselves through their actions, but if you do learn hebrew you need to find their secret library of anti-goy texts where they systematically lay out how they plan to take over the world , i know they have that written down somewhere. They have a playbook somewhere because they keep doing the same things over and over.
Elijah Walker
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Fitzgerald is far superior than Fagels for any Latin.
Plus, >not reading Dryden's georgics
Actually just fucking learn latin, non est difficile, isti vulgares
Xavier Foster
Catholics havent been great since Vatican II, but its been passable literally until the current pope. The previous two were excellent. The main reason Im converting is that Im starting to believe the Orthodox claim that its the true church. I strongly believe on the evidence available that one of the two are the true church.
As to Rome, the Woolf book entitled Rome is the ideal starting point. Its a great overview and 'makes you think'.
As for an interest in Christian Rome, Through the Eye of a Needle, and a lot of other Peter Brown is choice. He doesnt have any biases and is generally just pleasant to read bc he really empathizes with and relates to the major thinkera and writers. The book is dense as hell, but very interesting and thorough
Kevin Long
Excellent thread! Scholar in relation to Late Republican-Early Prinicipate studies here and spent time working under a exhibitions officer.
Can I point out one of the most mundane misconceptions that the title of this thread could contribute to?
That misconception is using 'The Roman Empire' in relation to Roman civilisation. No, it went:
The Roman Kingdom (753BC-509BC) -> The Roman Republic (509BC-27BC) -> The Roman Empire (Prinicipate/Dominate 27BC-476AD).
My second & third note is, all Rome fell because people are full of shit and if you can't quote or redirect a ancient/contemporary source, it probably never happened.
Camden Rodriguez
Also the Twelve Caesars is amazing, my favourite out of the ones I can see in the pic that I've read. The only source outside of Cassius Dio known to describe the description of Emperors. But if "The Fall of the Roman Empire" is the same version that was written by Edward Gibbon, I must point out how historically inaccurate those works are. His reasoning contributed to the whole "degeneracy killed Rome" myth that people still propagate to this day, despite the fact Edward Gibbon was discredited over a century ago.
Ian Hughes
>the space trilogy
this is one of the most redpilled trilogies, especially perelandra.
Ryder Stewart
Ronald Syme is much more credited than Edward Gibbon. In all honesty, it's not his fault. Modern methods for determining history aren't simply logical answers.
Justin Howard
>using the Xfinity internet jew
Austin Jenkins
You seem psychotic
John Parker
(you)
Sebastian Stewart
> "redpilled" > A collection of work that does not challenge my preconceived world view
hahahahahhaha
Kevin Green
What are you expecting? A one word answer? In the last 2,000 years many men have dedicated themselves to finding out the answer to that question and it's led to a lifetime of study with still no definite answer. There are thousands of factors. I can only name a few of the factors I would probably regard as most significant.
Rome had fell into a system of having multiple rulers (Two Augustus' & Two Caesars) with no defined boundaries and each with their own heir. Picture the second Triumvirate but on a larger scale. It was plagued by civil war in its territory, currency deflation had been an issue since the Crisis of the Third Century, having two Senates (East and West) with their own conflicting motives is hardly ideal, religious conflicts within some regions of Rome divided entire cities (recorded in the Historia Augusta extensively), one could argue the Edict of Caracalla (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutio_Antoniniana) contributed but I'm not so sure it contributed to the Fall of Rome. It contributed or flayed the Crisis of the Third Century though.
Elijah Torres
I really don't know. Just look at Italy's history - it wasn't a unified country until about 100 years ago. So there are many ethnic/cultures there.
The Romans probably were wiped out as a race.
Noah Baker
>RSV
Thomas Taylor
All you guys looking for the answer to why Rome fell, forget about it. Just read about Rome. There is almost 1,000 years of history there to learn from. Read their stories, their history, look at their art, study their leaders and their lives.
Who cares why Rome fell? All things must end. You will probably come to your own conclusions as you absorb the material.
Matthew Reed
Fuck off faggot. If you want to listen to lies go watch tv or go to public school. There is nothing redpilled about being a jewish pawn denying Christ.
Isaac Wood
Holy shit, I've never seen so much false info in a single post.
Eat shit, Satan.
Catholics get their text from Egypt.
KJV gets it straight from the Greek and Hebrew, the Antioch texts, you know... Antioch, the heart of early Christendom?
Luis Morales
Also. Dude... the Catholic cult knows even less about Christianity than the Mormons and JWs.
It's bloody disgusting, but it's what you get when you don't read your Bible and rely on a man in a dress to read it to you.
