Why didn't PTSD exist for all of pre-modern warfare, when war was far more brutal and personal, but in modern war...

Why didn't PTSD exist for all of pre-modern warfare, when war was far more brutal and personal, but in modern war, suddenly every soldier are beta bitches who have "PTSD"?

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en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_of_pike
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwedentrunk
dcoe.mil/blog/09-07-16/Thursday_July_16_2009_-_Notable_Historical_Figures_May_Have_Experienced_PTSD.aspx
youtube.com/watch?v=FDNyU1TQUXg
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_shock?wprov=sfla1
militaryhistorynow.com/2012/09/17/walking-wounded-ptsd-from-ancient-greece-to-afghanistan/
youtube.com/watch?v=hSp8IyaKCs0
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

This is the Sack of Baghdad, where 1,000,000+ civilians were killed. How many of the Mongol soldiers got "PTSD" from the rape and killing?

Because everyone in premodern society had traumatic stress.

because it wasn't recorded because no one gave a fuck if some random soldier in the persian army had panic attacks in his hut

I wonder if it's because the lack of explosions causing that glorious overdump of shock hormones. Honestly getting stabbed would be "shocking" but your pretty much dead at that point and if you survived I mean swinging pieces of metal arn't exactly traumatizing

I refuse to believe people as retarded as you exist in real life

TNT, explosives fuckign up ur sleep while ur in a hole by urself

t.mongol rape baby

yeah but imagine MILLIONS of men, thousands of horses, and still cannons charging towards you and your men. That would be fucked man

PTSD first became noticeable in the first major conflicts of the modern era, namely the two world wars.

While PTSD wasn't understood as a concept, there were many men that returned from combat extremely mentally disabled even though they had no physical injury.

Modern warfare places humans in an unnatural environment which puts more stress on the human psyche than anticipated. Male brains are wired to be able to stand murdering another man with your hands or a crude blade, but running through a minefield watching your friends get their legs blown off while gas rains from the sky is not natural, and the amygdala and other primitive parts of the brain can't handle it.

Mongols fucking Chins and Ahmeds wouldnt feel bad about it, now which one are you?

>Why didn't PTSD exist for all of pre-modern warfare

Many of those that survived, did

But also, your statement that "every soldier" has PTSD isn't even close to true

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_of_pike
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwedentrunk
Sounds bad, man

because there were no jews to take your money in exchange for therapy and brain-medication back then.

now, everyone gets told they have PTSD. and people are generally stupid, so they believe it.

this

though i believe shell-shock is a real thing. constant loud, concussive blasts do affect your brain.

. . .maybe it did but the scribes thought it was some unworthy bitch shit since there were an proportionate amount of badass stories going around at the same time

this.

Alexander the Great suffered from classic symptoms of PTSD.

>During his return from India, Alexander began to experience disturbing changes in his character. The once brave, adventurous, adaptable, ingenious and considerate leader drove his army through the Gardosian Desert, where two-thirds of his troops perished from dehydration, starvation and hypothermia. Alexander then began executing lieutenants and satraps who had served him as middle managers of the empire during his conquests to the east. Alexander spent the last months of his life drinking heavily and had become pathologically suspicious and easily alarmed.

SOURCE: dcoe.mil/blog/09-07-16/Thursday_July_16_2009_-_Notable_Historical_Figures_May_Have_Experienced_PTSD.aspx

> t. neckbeard who never served

sounds like paradise.
a good way to die
till Valhalla
by you wont be getting in pussy

youtube.com/watch?v=FDNyU1TQUXg

PTSD is a choice, just like being gay.

t. Australian veteran of 7 years actually.

One factor is probably the difference in warfare. A bit of stabby stabby versus getting blown the fuck up by artilery for years at a time.

Guns create anxiety. At any moment, your life can be ended from a man peeking over a hill 400m away.

Before guns, you were with your brothers in arms, fighting side by side with your enemy directly in front of you.

Arrows did this but to a lesser extent.

Or other things besides guns.
Mortar fire overhead for 12hrs of the day, not to hit you, but only suppress. One could strike you at any time.
With airplanes came bombs. The enemy flies overhead quickly, too far to shoot down, while dropping hell down upon you.

The real answer is war pre-rifle era wasn't a 6 month slugfest where you're constantly barraged with artillery and enemy snipers are regularly killing your best mates.

Pre-rifle you'd have one staged battle where everything would happen in a matter of hours. Hence people recovered mentally much faster because it didn't affect their normal life.

Serving in the 'strayan shitposting division doesn't count. Thanks for your service in the meme wars, though.

post your raifu

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_shock?wprov=sfla1

it probably has something to do with not being able to see your death coming or avoid it. you could just catch a bullet or step on a mine at any time. some people can't deal with it and live in constant fear while they're deployed. eventually they snap

>Why didn't PTSD exist for all of pre-modern warfare
Because (((they))) need PTSD to subscribe military professionals to methadone "treatment". Introducing them to cheap opiate, that might be only available when pharma-owner is carefully obeyed. Making scenarios like "battle of athens" impossible or at least unscalable.

Basically it's simply this. Why should anyone care about the phenomenon? And people hid that shit to not appear weak in a world where your masculinity meant more.

PTSD has been documented for thousands of years, while not always called that obviously. in WW1 it was called shell shock.

Short answer is it did
militaryhistorynow.com/2012/09/17/walking-wounded-ptsd-from-ancient-greece-to-afghanistan/
Btw it's not a Jewish hoax invented to cover up mind control side-effects

...

because y'all niggas are pussies. boo hoo I stubbed my toe (((PTSD))) boo hoo a shell hit my shoulder (((PTSD))) the boomers raised a generation of pussies

they grew up around brutality

Easy answer you dumb fucking leaf their entertainment was watching people muirder eachother on a regular basis and death happened early in age everything aligned in a way where it was just the norm to live in such a violent time however although it's not as violent as it was before it's still around we love entertainment we have people beat the shit out of eachother on TV we're so ahead of our time that we've been able to prolong another inevitable world war and have done it through the means of memes and a frog god while masturbating at home with our fleshlights freshley lubed and warmed for our dicks and occasionally look at the average mexican getting his face torn off on herer or at some bar or party watching some nigger and white trash sociopath duking it out in the ring.

I had heard he learned a childhood friend died, but insanity sounds better

>get burning oil thrown on you
>climb over a mountain of corpses
>step over the entrails of your disemboweled friend
>smash your enemy's head open with your axe
>repeat 100 times
>then rape, pillage, and sack the city
>don't get PTSD

>modern soldiers shoot some sand nigger from 50 yards away
>get PTSD

What went wrong?

Skinning human beings alive does tend to desensitize you to horror, doesn't it Paco?

PTSD has always been around, just under different names. It's essentially a body over responding to stress. Natural, it isn't necessarily bad either.

Duh

...

Cewl. I do like the army's choice of guns

PTSD did exist in ancient times. Homer wrote about it.

Many armies had ritual cleansing after battles for anyone who spilt blood, a sort of ancient psychological counseling.

>hands arent white
>Sup Forums is a multicultural board

Exactly!

steyr a shit.
A SHIT.

PTSD is more common in people who experience near constant elevated stress levels. In ancient warfare a battle was a serious but relatively short event, usually fought in a single day. Periods of low stress between battles helped restore the soldier's mental state. In modern wars, threats lurk around every corner, IEDs can be anywhere, and it isn't even clear who is friend and foe, leading to high stress for long periods, multiple days or weeks. A single traumatic event won't usually cause PTSD, but constant exposure to stressful situations does. This is why shellshock became recognized in WWI, soldiers were always stressed in the trenches, with little to no opportunity to relieve the stress. Some historical accounts indicate that PTSD did affect a small number of soldiers in the past, but most humans are capable of short periods of danger as long as they can have a break afterward.

>what are demons, ghosts, malevolent gods etc

compare colours

natural selection. the warriors would go to war and die and the berry-pickers would stay home and fuck

now that the berry-picker offspring has to go to "war" their delicate brains can't handle it and breaks

Any idea what he experienced that changed him so quickly?

Thanks faggot

Well stated.

>Be Juan
>Be manly
You better mow my yard by noon or i'll hire Pablo next time

hey.

Shut the fuck up.

And they knew about PTSD during the American Civil War too.

Even before then they had "Railway spine" from people who survived train accidents when they were knew. Franklin Pierce most likely had PTSD as his son was killed in front of him while on a train, he became a severe alcoholic and died from it.

So, it's been around, it just wasn't identified as such like you said.

That stab wound to the chest really messed him up as well

PTSD was around since the dawn of Wars. Just wasnt called PTSD. Who gave a fuck if Sallam was in his tent having flashbacks after a battle. >God has cursed him, blah blah.

Do you think we can meme the phrase PTSD out of existence and replace it with shellshock again?

George Carlin did a good segment on this. Shellshock is a much more brutal phrase for seeing the horrors of war.

It went from
>shellshock
to
>battle fatigue
to
>operational exhaustion
to
>post-traumatic stress disorder

youtube.com/watch?v=hSp8IyaKCs0

There was some Greek who was said to have gone blind from stress. All of the doctors at the time(ancient Greece) couldn't find anything wrong with him and he said he wasn't hit anywhere, but he was still blind

I think you guys that doubt those horrors witnessed by others do because you're coddled man children looking to one up the people you wish you were: men.

‘The crows pecked out the eyes and rats lived on bodies that lay in abandoned dugouts. These rats were very large and quite fearless, their familiarity with the dead having made them contemptuous of the living. One night one fell on my face in a dugout and bit me.

‘Where we fought several times over the same ground bodies became incorporated in the material of the trenches themselves.’ He remembered in one place accidentally digging through corpses of Frenchmen killed and buried in 1915.

‘They were putrid, with the consistency of Camembert cheese. I once fell and put my hand right through the belly of a man. It was days before I got the smell out of my nails.’

At one stage his battalion had to deal with a thousand rotting corpses, which ‘came to pieces in your hands. As you lifted a body by the arms and leg, the torso detached.

'Even worse was that each one was crawling with maggots and covered inches deep with a black fur of flies which flew up into your face, mouth, eyes and nostrils.’

"Men were squashed. Cut in two or divided from top to bottom. Blown into showers; bellies turned inside out; skulls forced into the chest as if by a blow from a club."

"You eat beside the dead; you drink beside the dead, you relieve yourself beside the dead and you sleep beside the dead."

"Hell cannot be so terrible as this. Humanity is mad; it must be mad to do what it is doing."

"An artery of French blood was spilt on February 21st and it flows incessantly in large spurts."

"I saw a man drinking avidly from a green scum-covered marsh, where lay, his black face downward in the water, a dead man lying on his stomach and swollen as if he had not stopped filling himself with water for days."

"To die from a bullet seems to be nothing; parts of our being remain intact; but to be dismembered, torn to pieces, reduced to pulp, this is the fear that flesh cannot support and which is fundamentally the great suffering of the bombardment."

1. Modern Western Enlightenment era ethics did not exist in this time period, therefore guilt was not felt, as rape and murder of innocents was not universally viewed as morally reprehensible. Might makes right was the de facto mantra of those days.

2. People back then had no free time to brood about the past. As soon as they went home, it was back to harvesting the next crop for winter.

3. This It probably occurred but nobody gave a shit because mental illness wasn't an understood concept back then.

4. Massive artillery barrages weren't a thing yet. People couldn't get shell shocked yet.

5. PTSD usually happens a relatively longer time after one returns home from war. Most people didn't live past 40, so there wasn't time to develop it.

6. Mass conscription armies are relatively new. From the Middle Ages up until about the French Revolutionary Wars, soldiers were fewer and those who became warriors were the fiercest and most fearless people in a given society, not a mass hoard of a bunch of normal 18-year-old kids fresh out of high school shoved through basic training and handed a gun and told to kill gooks in some shitty jungle in Vietnam and dumped back into society while being screamed at by raging hippies.

7. War was viewed as more noble back then. There wasn't really much anti-war philosophy back then. Being a warrior was highly idealized, which made soldiers feel better when they returned. Nowadays you have shrieking leftists attacking soldiers and telling everybody how bad war is.

Just my thoughts.

...There is nothing as tiring as the continuous, enormous bombardment as we have lived through, last night, at the front. The night is disturbed by light as clear as if it were day. The earth moves and shakes like jelly. And the men who are still at the frontline, cannot hear anything but the drumfire, the moaning of wounded friends, the screams of hurt horses, the wild pounding of their own hearts, hour after hour, day after day, night after night....

A German soldier: ...the soldiers fell over like tin soldiers. Almost all our officers get hurt or killed and many of our men get killed because of their own artillery fire, which is too close and therefore causes many victims...

A German eye-witness: ...The losses are registered as follows: they are dead, wounded, missing, nervous wrecks, ill and exhausted. Nearly all suffer from dysentery. Because of the failing provisioning the men are forced to use up their emergency rations of salty meats. They quenched their thirst with water from the shellholes. They are stationed in the village of Ville where every form of care seems to be missing. They have to build their own accommodation and are given a little cacao to stop the diarrhoea. The latrines, wooden beams hanging over open holes, are occupied day and night the holes are filled with slime and blood...

A neutral contemporary feels: that they, within the framework of this World War, are involved in some affair, that will still be considered horrible and appalling in a hundred years time. It is this Hell of Verdun. Since a hundred days day and night the sons of two European people fight stubbornly and bitterly over every inch of land. It is the most appalling mass murder of our history

A German witness: .the latrines cause major problems. They are completely blocked up and smell terribly. This stench is fought with chlorinated lime and this smell mixes with the battlefield smell of decomposition. Men even wear their gas masks when using the latrines

>Beating niggers with sticks is fun
>Beating niggers with exploding sticks is scary

Can't tell by the skin that gets tanned friend, gotta check the nips.

They Romans did, it's called battle fatigue. They considered it normal for soldiers who have been in long campaigns to suffer with mental health issues during battle or after it. They were not shunned as being ''cowards''

A soldier tells: ...The soldiers put their feet in front of them and pulled up out of the swampy and smelly soil. A disgusting impenetrable stench surrounded every move. Some did not manage to pull their boots from the mud and had to continue in their socks, puttee or even barefooted.

A French soldier describes the horrors of a bombardment: ...When you hear the whistling in the distance your entire body preventively crunches together to prepare for the enormous explosions. Every new explosion is a new attack, a new fatigue, a new affliction. Even nerves of the hardest of steel, are not capable of dealing with this kind of pressure. The moment comes when the blood rushes to your head, the fever burns inside your body and the nerves, numbed with tiredness, are not capable of reacting to anything anymore. It is as if you are tied to a pole and threatened by a man with a hammer. First the hammer is swung backwards in order to hit hard, then it is swung forwards, only missing your scull by an inch, into the splintering pole. In the end you just surrender. Even the strength to guard yourself from splinters now fails you. There is even hardly enough strength left to pray to God....

A witness tells: ...We all carried the smell of dead bodies with us. The bread we ate, the stagnant water we drank Everything we touched smelled of decomposition due to the fact that the earth surrounding us was packed with dead bodies....

Henri Barbusse describes the trenches as:
...a network of elongated pits in which the nightly excreta are piling up. The bottom is covered with a swampy layer from which the feet have to extricate themselves with every step. It smells dreadfully of urine all over....

A French stretcher-bearer describes the consequences of a flame-thrower attack: ...Some grenadiers returned with ghastly wounds: hair and eyebrows singed, almost not human anymore, black creatures with bewildered eyes....

This.

Louis Barthas also describes such an attack:
...At my feet two unlucky creatures rolled the floor in misery. Their clothes and hands, their entire bodies were on fire. They were living torches. [The next day] In front of us on the floor the two I had witnessed ablaze, lay rattling. They were so unrecognisably mutilated that we could not decide on their identities. Their skin was black entirely. One of them died that same night. In a fit of insanity the other hummed a tune from his childhood, talked to his wife and his mother and spoke of his village. Tears were in our eyes....

A soldier tells: ...Seven days without sleep, seven days of fatigue, thirst and fear made these healthy men, these beautifully disciplined companies into a gang of loiterers. Critically ill, but calm and satisfied, because they were now out of danger and appeared to be still alive....

A German officer recalls: ...We saw a handful of soldiers, commanded by a Captain, slowly approaching, one at the time. The Captain asked which company we were and then started to cry all of a sudden. Did he suffer of shellshock? Then he said: ...when I saw you approach it reminded me of six days ago, when I walked this same road with approximately hundred men. And now look how few there are left.... We watched as we passed them; they where about twenty. They walked by us as living, plastered statues. Their faces stared at us like shrunken mummies, and their eyes were so immense that you could not see anything but their eyes....

A German soldier describes: ...The men who have lived in these trenches just as long as our infantry men, without going insane under these infernal attacks, must have lost their sense for a large number of things. Our poor men have seen too many atrocities, have witnessed too many incredible matters. I cannot believe that we will be able to cope with this. Our poor little mind simply cannot comprehend all of this....

It did you stupid bitch.
youtube.com/watch?v=FDNyU1TQUXg

Cuz their mind was bicameral back then.
They do hallucinate the ghosts of people they slayed though.

They did. They just forced you rigth back in or killed you for cowardice, which happened to a World War 1 soldier from Great Britain.

Ajax killed a herd of sheep he thought were the key then killed himself.

>what is dirt
>what is a suntan
>what is poor lighting
>why isnt this a professional photoshoot
>why is a 2010 phone camera bad

Also Herodotus wrote about a soldier at Marathon who went blind after seeing his homeboy killed even though nothing ever touched him.

>Wonders momentarily about how long it will take people to realize that 'diseases' and 'conditions' that are currently being made up a very profitable to people who treat these 'diseases' and 'conditions'

>Realizes that most people are to medically drugged up to awaken

>A chuckle of despair escapes me

i agree, shit jams like crazy and has shit range, 5.56.

The issue I have with PTSD is it now covers everything. Shell shock was specific, you're fucked in the head from battle.
Now little Susie claims she has PTSD from some manspreading shitlord.

>6

Hotspur in Shakespeare's Henry IV has PTSD

You used to have to look your enemy in the eye when you killed him and it took actual physical effort.

Now you just press a button and BOOM a whole city is gone. The amount of collateral damage you can
cause against non-combatants is staggering these days.

Fucks with your brain.

conversion or psychosomatic
psychological trauma manifesting as physical symptoms

something like 30-70% of neurological disorders have no known cause

I talked to an OT once and he had a client who was a quadripalegic; the doctors did every scan/test imagineable, and physically he was fine. he was in a bad car crash where people died. after psychiatric treatment he fully recovered the use of his limbs.

THats why they had Rituals and Offerings to the Gods. To help them cope.

You are fucking retarded. If I put you in multiple life threatening situations you would be fucked up as well. Soldiers coming back from modern warfare have done more deployments than any war in the last 150 years. The effects of combat are similar to being tortured. Kys op

I think just the sheer amount on conquering he and his armies did finally began to take its toll.

Its the human psyche. PTSD is accepted now so people dont have to fight it and they just accept it.

And im obviously im talking about the people who just say a little bit of combat not the ones that were truly brutalized.

Half german half spic (notmesizto) am I white pol

What was your MOS

Because it used to be called 'shellshock'.
Then it was 'combat fatigue'
Then Ptsd.

See George Carlin's bit on language softening.

This. PTSD has been described over the centuries under different names. The symptoms are even described in the ancient Hindu classic, the Mahabharata.

forgot pic

Are you serious?
Fighting from Greece to India....

Ancient wars featured a lot of downtime, marching to the battlefield and so on. Modern war is 24/7 and that amount of prolonged stress eats away at a soldier.

>why was this disease that was categorized less than 100 years ago not diagnosed before?}

This. You're retarded or troling, OP.

There's a lot of shit wrong with psychiatry and stuff I don't agree with, but PTSD is pretty much one of the diagnoses that is rock solid in evidence.

It's literally one of the worst you could attack for being "bullshit". Trauma is as real as it gets.

During the civil war it was "soldiers heart".