The liberal echo chamber

How would you guys advise liberals as a group to best communicate with and understand the right? I feel like I'm liberal compared to most here though get called out and berated by lefties I know irl, so I'm curious.

>Caring about the wellbeing of your own rather than others is basic human instinct in my view
>I'm in favour of immigration as long as it's controlled and we have filters on quality. You want to come and work that's cool, just pull your weight.
>I hate that liberals I know pat each other on the back for sharing Huffington Post articles with others of the same mindset, and use "racist" and other buzzwords as their whole argument to shut down other views
>I find outright racism retarded, every group has chilled folks and every group has its cunts. I know enough people to hate some of every kind and get along with others and their race isn't a recurring theme in behaviour
>Safe spaces are dumb
>Nationalism and patriotism is having pride for other people's achievements that were made on the same plot of land you were born in, nothing to do with you
>When Tomi Lahren was on the Daily Show my friends were among those flipping out, and even when I said there needs to be a debate they wouldn't have it

I guess I just want to know how to get a dialogue going, because the division we've seen this year that has fuelled the FUCK 2016 meme is pissing me off.

Why does caring about other people mean youre a liberal?

Being liberal in modern times pretty much means youre just a follower. Dont want to be excluded.

Being conserative is a challenge because youre fighting to preserve something.

-caring about your own herd/flock over outsiders is basic survival behavior and leads to a greater chance of passing on your genes than humanism

-we don't need people from other parts of the world to do work that we/robots can do, this is my land and my ancestors died to keep it for their kin, knowing that the world and its space is limited

-if you think a german sheppard and chihuahua are different but blacks and whites are totally the same on a genetic level, you've only read the approved biology, big differences in races

-more than just being born on the same plot of land, being descended through genes and culture to great men means you have the potential to be great too, and not confined to building mud huts for 10,000 years , shows us the ideal of ourselves and what we can aspire to be, my herd did this i am of this herd, therefore i can do this

I didn't mean for it to sound like conservatives aren't caring. When I said I feel more liberal than most here I just meant that I seethings here I agree with and others where I just think, "That's a bit much."

The left should stop trying to communicate AS A GROUP.

That's the problem with the left in general, they come as crowds, mobs, and secretive cabals and don't want to engage us as people.

They are just as bad as the stormfaggots in that they are unwilling to engage with other people as fellow human beings.

>>I hate that liberals I know pat each other on the back for sharing Huffington Post articles with others of the same mindset, and use "racist" and other buzzwords as their whole argument to shut down other views
Those are just called assholes. They come in equal amounts in both flavors.

>big differences in races

My point was that I've met enough people of different races to know that you can't judge all the characters of one under one category. I know not to assume an Asian is an areshole just for being Asian, I'll take the time to judge them by getting to know them. If they are a cunt then they're individually a cunt, if they're chilled they're individually chilled. Same for other whites, I won't assume they're all virtuous by default.

This is pretty much my view. How would you say they can best go about improving their mentality?

I agree

Well I should also point out that liberals ideals rapidly change so theres no core beliefs. What liberals praise today, theyll hate tom and vice versa.

In the 60s in the US, nobody, not even liberals gave a fuck about gay rights. Now its the hottest thing following the revival of the struggling POC.

They always need some struggle or plight to hide behind even of its all farce.

Thats where youre getting frustrated. You want to be compassionate for the right cause and you find liberals just making up bullshit to feel special while embracing the same bahavior they condemn their counterparts for.

Its not like that with conservatives for the most part.

>>Nationalism and patriotism is having pride for other people's achievements that were made on the same plot of land you were born in, nothing to do with you
You're literally saying that all liberals are unpatriotic.

A lot are. Most liberals in the US are willing to open up borders and trade out soverignty for refugee freedom.

Most liberals think the world runs off love and rainbows.

>You're literally saying that all liberals are unpatriotic

Not sure how you read it that way, but alright. I was just trying to express my own view that patriotism anywhere is pointless.

That's a broad, inflammatory statement that isn't even remotely true.

Liberals need to be gassed.

>Most liberals think the world runs off love and rainbows

See shit like this is almost the conservative equivalent of the liberal mindset I have issues with

Hmmm. I'm not sure how I would arrive at that based on how it's worded, but I agree, to an extent. The hysteria-based, hitler-spawning kind of patriotism is pointless, but having pride in living in a good place isn't bad.

Stop trying to define the retarded group of 13-21 year olds that memed a president into the White House.

It's very simple, liberals:

(1) your neo nazi former friend is going to present you with some empirical data that is going to either challenge or completely deny your appeal to emotion argument
(2) You can expect this a lot, especially when you pull some egalitarian wholly nicetalk like "It's a class thing, they act like criminals because they are poor". Your argument seems reasonable, but here comes that racist with their graph.
(3) Place your fingers in your ears, and begin shaking your head side to side, speeding up until you cannot focus on the statistic in front of your virtuous face.
(4) begin intoning with the age-old witchhunter voice: Thaaaaaat's Raaaacccissstt Fuck you Thaaaaaat's Raaaccccistt Fuck you, you Raaaaacisssst piece of shit

That pretty much covers any situation you may find yourself exposed to when accidentally exposed to the evil workings of the Right, and especially this new fangled alt-right thing that nobody quite knows what it is supposed to be. Economics? Racist. Foreign Policy? Racist. Border Control? Extra racist with racism on top.

NEVER engage with their nazi empiricism EXAMINING THE SITUATION RATIONALLY IS HOW THEY BECOME NAZIS and you don't want to be a racist, do you?

>patriotism anywhere is pointless.

>blind jingoism any anywhere is pointless

FTFY

patriotism is intrinsically linked to civic duty

a decline in the first will always weaken the latter

>at thanksgiving
>liberal aunt and uncle are visiting
>we're having a political discussion
>aunt starts going on an on about how conservatives are suffering from cognitive dissonance
>i say "isn't that what's happening right now?"
>she says "yeah, it's ridiculous!" then keeps going on her tangent
>i chuckle to myself
>my uncle looks at me and his face shows that he is aware his wife is doing what she's complaining about
>my cousin looks at me from across the table and smiles and shakes his head
>aunt keeps going

He's right. All liberal policies completely ignore the human factor.

You're looking at a right echo chamber here at Sup Forums, hope you know that.

I think most people here are liberal or at least we're before the line was picked up and moved without our consent.

While also being the biggest as show in the room.

>Nationalism and patriotism is having pride for other people's achievements that were made on the same plot of land you were born in, nothing to do with you

Then you're a fucking idiot, and I advise you to pack your bags and go live in the woods on your own. Don't want to do that? Guess what, that's because all those "other people's achievements" make life livable for you, today. The society they created is what we take pride in, and that pride is a protective mechanism. It keeps our society functioning. The moment you lose that pride, you get leftist nonsense where they develop a fetish for completely destroying society with immigration and endless cultural relativism.

If you believe Britain has a better healthcare system than, say, Yemen, you are already engaging in patriotism.

All cultural relativists must be shot. After all, there is no real difference between life and death when you really think about it...

Lefties aren't liberal. They range from fascist SJWs to actual communists. In fact, if you aren't a free-market capitalist there's no way you can call yourself a liberal without sounding like a dumb american.

Sup Forums was never liberal idk where this stupid fuckin idea came from.

the board is labeled politically incorrect. Liberals donts do that. The only reason liberals are here is because they cant stand other people thinking differently.

Sup Forums has always been anti-nigger. Always.

No thats fucking stupid.

Liberal in what aspect?

ok but the arguement for having them here is that "they're just like us" when they're not

i.e they are NOT part of our herd, so why would i promote their reproduction by giving them access to my herd's resources?

>If you believe Britain has a better healthcare system than, say, Yemen, you are already engaging in patriotism.

Hey man alright, I'll give you that, I phrased it poorly. To try and put it more aptly, I'd say that in my opinion, people who say things like "We're superior because we're from X" or "X is only for natives, nobody else" etc, are in the wrong. You lucked out in being born there, if a person is hard working and wants to contribute they have the right, if they want to be a leech though they can fuck off.

>they are NOT part of our herd, so why would i promote their reproduction by giving them access to my herd's resources?

See the herd mentality is weird to me because I've grown up knowing folks from other "herds" and haven't taken issue with them. Technology has come far enough where the whole hunter/gatherer and tribal protection shit is past us, so why think in that way?

Ha dont underestimate them. They were able to beat a whole government and biased media at cheating just by getting on the internet.

I mean, it sucks to get beat at your own game, I guess.

Back in the day "liberal" meant you believed in liberty, not fascist economic intervention.

Liberals used to be anti-establishment now they love the federal powers.

This is what im talking about.

They dont believe in anything, no set core of ideas.

whar herds? non british folk?

so you would prefer that your genes are replaced in the gene pool?

its literally the biological imperative of every animal to pass its genes on so it doesn't "truly die off"

I dont have a problem with other herds either, but they are not mine and they dont have similar genes to me either so theres no way around it, by promoting their success in the gene pool i hinder mine

im cool with being nice to strangers and others but not at the cost of my own reproductive success because i am logical thinking animal (i.e want to pass on my genes)

you will never escape your animal instinct to want to pass on YOUR genes, even your cousin has closer genes to you than ahmed the arab obviously

Liberals are living in a simulacra, as Baudrillard put it. That's why they're so obsessed with falsities such as 'celebrity'. Sup Forums anons often decry liberals and leftists as being mentally ill, but they struggle to define what kind of mental illness lefties suffer from. They are suffering from fourth stage simulacra, or hyper-reality. Everything they believe is defined to them by the (((elites))) and has no basis in reality whatsoever. Any attempt for you or I to redpill them will be interpreted in hyperreal terms.

They're too far gone. They've taken too many blue pills.

They're not liberal then. They're just sheep.

>Wearing suits. Suits are for losers.

agreed, worked hard in uni to become a "cool pat bateman type banker with money and chicks"

all you get is money and an empty heart, only a jew would be fulfilled by chasing material wealth their whole life

family, community, country

Easy, boy. Without dissenting opinions, this would just be one big echo chamber to create radicals.

Don't be a fucking retard.

Ok, thats fine, but dont try to label Sup Forums liberal like we stole it or something.

>by promoting their success in the gene pool i hinder mine

Mate I'm not talking about gene pools, just read what I'm actually typing.

You say that you're alright with being decent to others, which is cool. I'm saying that humans are above some of that baseline animal stuff that you're talking about. Do we care about our offspring? Of course. But we have enough brain power to understand others on an individual basis. We have the capacity to share when needed and have benefitted immensely from it. If each culture kept its inventions to itself we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

You talk about being genetically predisposed to being above constructing mud huts. The guys who created proper housing and skyscrapers likely weren't your direct ancestors, and probably weren't from the exact same country. That knowledge was shared and enabled your ancestors would have shelter. Unless you can point to a direct ancestor and cite a great contribution they've made to society then I don't see your point about herds being top priority.

Explain to me how Sup Forums is liberal.

On the American political spectrum, Sup Forums is not a liberal board.

Even if the classical definition of liberalism is used it still doenst apply to Sup Forums.

m8. The alt-right is as much the alt-left at this point pretty much due to former unexamined lefties suddenly noticing their ideology was based on rhetoric and wanting to fug easy hippie chicks rather than empirical observations.

Very, very few teens start out ring wing. It's almost anathema due to the constant reinforcement that Right Wing = Evil Old Racists With All The Money trope in consumer corporate culture.

The Extreme of Right Wing is Anarchy, no government at all, yet anarchs seem to think they are extreme leftists for some odd reason. Probably down to their entire "movement" relying on welfare payments.

just admit when youre fucking wrong and stop hurling insults. when you make a clearly absurd and baseless claim like "women can do anything men can do" or "diversity is a strength" or "minimum wage helps the poorest people", and then you call us names, you come off like a fool who we cannot have any kind of debate with.

>people who say things like "We're superior because we're from X" or "X is only for natives, nobody else" etc, are in the wrong. You lucked out in being born there, if a person is hard working and wants to contribute they have the right, if they want to be a leech though they can fuck off.

This illustrates one big problem I have with the left: The left pretends culture does not exist. But it does. Culture influences your beliefs, how you act, what you value etc. etc. And national culture is what patriots are proud of. No wonder you don't get it if you don't think it exists.

And you know what is essential for that "wanting to contribute part"? Wanting to become a member of the culture of the land. Right now, by and large, most immigrants don't. They want to remain Moroccan/Turkish/Pakistani/whatever, and they are prouf of THAT culture. Which curiously never seems to be noticed by all these anti-nationalist lefties. in fact, they applaud it, so they aren't really against nationalism. Just Western nationalism.

It's simple. You can't contribute to anything you're not a part of. Of course, these people can't really put into eloquent words what they're protesting against, but that's it.

>Technology has come far enough where the whole hunter/gatherer and tribal protection shit is past us, so why think in that way?

That's retarded. Humans evolved as hunter-gatherers, and will always think like them. The biggest flaw with political ideology is that it completely ignores this simple fact. You can't just decide to turn off the human brain because it doesn't suit your politics. A lot of these frustrations come from the fact that people are not your perfect homunculii that act according to your whims.

the road to hell is paved with good intentions boy, we can aspire to higher but it is easier to expect baseline animal instinctual responses from broad populations

i agree we are higher than that but we cant rely on our best nature


sure im from lika croatia and i have blood relatives to the tesla family

you want to pass on your own genes dont you? are you a self serving animal or pretending to be something higher?

>If each culture kept its inventions to itself we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Heh.
You wouldn't.

Sharing implies quid pro quo, Clarice.

What are the rapeugees sharing with Europe, other than rape? When has Islam shared anything but Islamic ghettos prior to a takeover in any nation on Earth?

Pick your ideological components piecemeal and don't commit to a left/right divide.
Blacks are generally bad for the USA and the world.
Climate change is real.
Welfare is only good in a society with strong local community ties. Otherwise it keeps poor people poor.
There is a legitimate interest in preserving traditional culture.
Free markets can be bad, particularly when consumer demand is inelastic.
Communism is a crock of shit.
Libertarianism is a crock of shit.

>When has Islam shared anything

Pretty sure it was Muslims that created the numbers we all use, might be wrong on that though

Yeah, you're wrong, that was the Hindus.

They're called "Arabic Numerals" because an Italian decied they looked nicer than the poo's version they were knocking off.

Sharing is fine when Trust has been established. No Trust, No Sharing. Same for pretty much all societal interaction, Trust is earned, and a whole swathe of peoples simply have not earned it and in fact have pretty much irreversibly undermined it.

That comic would be vastly improved if the last panel was the pug distracting the retriever with a ball.

You're clearly a retard yourself. You're unable to think beyond yourself, and you don't understand groups. Stop thinking "me me me me", and consider a family to be the smallest unit of civilization. You implicitly already do that, since you surely know a person can be proud of the achievements of his children, siblings or parents, even though he has nothing to do with them. In the same way you can be proud of your nation's achievements, since your countrymen are your extended family. Nationalism makes sense once you realize the connection you share to those you live with and to those who came before you. Racism makes sense once you understand that the connection you have with a negro is at least 50 000 years old, and practically non existent. Patriotism makes sense once you realize that the connections you have, your way of life and your future are all worth protecting.

Make sure you're wise enough yourself before you judge and try to change opinions of others.

>Blacks are generally bad for the USA and the world.

See I agree with everything you posted apart from this. To me that is still just too much of a generalisation.

>Racism makes sense once you understand that the connection you have with a negro is at least 50 000 years old, and practically non existent.

Do you need a genetic or cultural connection to be able to just get along with someone on a human level? You meet someone into the same stuff as you, is decent, yet you would still ostracise them on those grounds?

Yeah I don't want work basically taking complete control of my life to where I barely have time to even enjoy the stuff I earn. Gotta be a fair balance.

>Do you need a genetic or cultural connection to be able to just get along with someone on a human level? You meet someone into the same stuff as you, is decent, yet you would still ostracise them on those grounds?
I get along with everyone, but I recognize the importance of genetics in a society. We need to be similar enough to not see obvious differences in each other. Homogeneous societies have less crime, more trust and more happiness than others. I'd like to live in a society where I don't have to worry about getting robbed and where I don't have to lock my door. With negros there is the additional problem that they are intellectually far inferior to whites, and they're far more violent than we are. Even if they shared my culture and looked like me, they'd still bring problems.

Why would you want to erode your society for no reason? Why would you want to erode your genetics, and the future of all mankind, just in the name of tolerance?

Ah, I was just like you a year and a half ago. "I'm a liberal, but I HATE SJWs!"

>I find outright racism retarded, every group has chilled folks and every group has its cunts. I know enough people to hate some of every kind and get along with others and their race isn't a recurring theme in behaviour

Anecdotal evidence doesn't hold much weight here. You've only seen the africans and arabs that had the resources, willpower and knowledge to legally move to a western country. These types of people are a minority in their homelands. They are the best in their country and not overall representative of their people. Yes it is true that all races have good and bad people, but we must look at the numbers rather than just saying "some". Africans and Arabs commit crime disproportionately higher than Whites in the EU.

>Nationalism and patriotism is having pride for other people's achievements that were made on the same plot of land you were born in, nothing to do with you

Achievements that were made almost entirely to benefit their children and country's future inhabitants. If everyone in the world suddenly believed in that bullshit our progress as a species would come to a screeching halt overnight.

What is a country? A country is not just some plot of land. A country is made up by a gathering of states with similar interests and traditions. States are made up by a gathering of counties with similar interests and traditions. A county is made up by a gathering of families with similar interests and traditions. A Nation is a family. And just as your grandfather broke his back for decades with the dream of having a son and grandson that his work will improve the life of one day, so did everyone else's grandfather in your country. It is every parents goal to give their children a better life than the one they had. This is literally why we have civilization.

I have a more complex answer regarding black people.
I think black people learn malignant behaviors or become low functioning due to lack of cognitive stimulation as children.
I think we have a social duty to educate black kids as best we can. But I have no illusions about their parents. If you're a 30 year old black man who never learned social skills or empathy, and were rewarded for laziness and deceit all your life, you're not going to change. Can't teach an old dog new tricks.
Not all black people are lazy and violent but I'd say the majority of black people engage in highly anti-social and unethical behavior (years in HR has taught me this).

There is no way to understand the right because they are retarded or insane. Just look at the posts on this board.

>I'd say the majority of black people engage in highly anti-social and unethical behavior (years in HR has taught me this).

On what grounds? How many blacks do you know? Where do you work/live?

Sounds like you're a right wing, racist, anti-semite bigot to me, it's 2016 how dare you care about immigration.

Shit bro sorry about that, I'll be better in the current year