Citizen's Dividend

money for being a citizen.
what say you Sup Forums?

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sure, if you're okay with conscription

>it's what we deserve

Yeaaah cool in theory, won't work in practice.

You'll just have heaps of people swarming in for "free" shit and screwing the system. Wouldn't it be nice if we gave everybody in the third world 20k?

Inflation? What's that, sounds like another way of spelling "racism".

this reminds me of inflation somehow.

If you want to rob someone, then go out and rob someone. Don't be so lazy that you want the government to do it for you.

>inflation
inflation is increasing the money supply.
that's not how dividends work.

>i deserve
>i deserve more
>and more
>and more
>...

Where exactly do we draw the line here?

>not have enough to give everybody 20k of value A

>so print out more money, so they still get 20k but now has the value of B

>paying people for simply existing
No.

>wealth redistribution

you can fuck right off

>give the government money
>ask for it to give you your money back
>expect a profit
The only way the government is going to "pay you" is by cutting taxes. Donald Trump didn't make his fortune by putting his money into the bank and waiting for the bank to pay his interest. Anybody with the slightest knowledge of economics knows that's a terrible idea.

This would only work in a society with a minority population as the only people eligible to be citizens. Much like the nobility.
Congratulations on rediscovering ancient political ideals. It's like Greece all over again.

It is what we ordinary American citizens deserve though. We work hard, and we are struggling because of a financial crisis that wasn't our fault. How can anyone oppose a helping hand for hard working Americans?

greed is good

that's not how dividends work. you're paying out a percentage on growth.
if we consider a nation like a company and every citizen a stockholder in that company, payouts dont occur on losses only on growth.

Where does the money come from :^)

So socialism? How is this going to work when we're all going to be taxed more for this anyway? Let me guess, the poor will received the full payout while business-owners and the successful are taxed to where this won't benefit?

This is what made europe a shithole

Even just $50 a week would cost $15.9 billion a week.

Also,
>America is the richest country in the history of the world
I'm richer than America...They're $19 trillion in debt.

Considering business owners make millions everyday by paying workers less than what they produce, I'd say it's fair that workers receive a little gesture like this in return

Not a bad idea, but american government doesnt make a profit.
It is in fact in trillions of debt

>if we consider a nation like a company
Simply put a nation (or rather State) isn't a company and a State doesn't do what companies do aka create wealth to give out.

No shit that isn't how dividends work but a State by its very nature cannot give out "dividends".

The same place as it currently does: thin air.

Why isn't the minimum wage 10k/hr?

Mate if the country was a company the stockholders would be earning nothing. All our countries make millions if not billions in losses every year.

>muh dividends
Do you know where the government's money comes from? It comes from the public. It isn't producing its own money. No matter what, it's the taxpayers who are giving it the money. You aren't getting a cut of wealth that was created, you're getting a cut of wealth that was given. By you. Idiot.

in 250 years of inflation it will be

>Considering business owners make millions everyday by paying workers less than what they produce
>Unironically repeating Marx's fallacious LTV despite it being utterly debunked over 100 years ago and was so fucking bad Marx himself never even made it a workable theory

How about providing money to boost citizens who start businesses/employ people, while at the same time removing all social security crap?

>Considering business owners make a profit, I'd say it's fair that they don't make a profit
You wot

I blame Disney.

They had the opportunity to better explain inflation in the 80s but kind of fudged it.

youtube.com/watch?v=HHo3cijNr8Q

Also, taxing people's balances at the end of the month instead of at income, boosting spending and economy

Leechs.

Time for your helicopter ride

I think a universal basic income could work, but not on this model and the ideas fucked now especially with Europe letting in millions of non-producing, criminally prone members of an alien culture.

>if we consider a nation like a company and every citizen a stockholder in that company

Better example would be "worker" and workers do something to get paid.

degenerate

Government is a service, not a business.

/thread

no.

europe doesn't have this, Alaska (and Saudi Arabia?) have this.

>debt
the vast majority of America's debt (and every other country's debt) is to it's own citizens.

$2000 a year for 18-25 yo
$2100 a year for 25-35 yo
$2200 a year for 35-50 yo
$2300 a year for 50-65 yo
Retirement pay 65+

$100 bonus for education
$100 bonus for skills
$200 for military veterans and emergency responders

>Be mining in the east quadrant of the asteroid belt.
>Earning 30mil credits a day.
>That's enough to buy a whole loaf of bread every day.
>At least I'm not starving down on Earth and having to live on 1mil credits a day.
>One day I'll leave this place and earn 1bil credits a day mining on Europa.

Boomers shouldn't get a penny

Young people should get more for being dealt such a shitty hand by boomers

>the vast majority of America's debt (and every other country's debt) is to it's own citizens.
And company debt is sometimes owned by the employee. It doesn't mean the company isn't having to float itself on the wages it's giving it's employees.
Not sure how you can think that's a good thing. If anything it's worse.

There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin. Have these people never read Plato or Aristotle? Do they even understand what a citizen is?

(((Friedman)))

Come to think of it, we already had Social Security trying to do this shit. What a shit idea.

> tfw when you fellow countrymen voted no to this bullshit.

All that means is the government is taking you for a ride
It doesnt owe money to citizens it owes money to institutions

>I think a universal basic income could work,
Just do this simple equation.
Take the minimum yearly income it would take to be just above the poverty line and then multiply that by every soul in your nation.

Then reffering to

Whiners like you are the worst. Instead of being glad you weren't born in some warlord-ruled desert shithole you complain about the western paradise by comparison you inherited because you think it's hard to get a job or vote.

Even if you don't think old people should get benefits, of those I'm sure you'd be glad to get advantages of by the time you're a geezer, people should at least be required to provide financially for the parents that raised them.

I don't deserve to inherit a country with billions of debt from boomers that they will die before they pay off.

>give any citizen a dividend
>let anybody be a citizen

Nah

How has the first post not been recognized as best yet?

Basic Income is NOT the same as a citizen dividend.

Nice strawman of Friedman.
His support of negative income tax was only under the condition of removal of all welfarism which would in real terms reduce welfare spending massively.

Universal basic income would massively increase government spending.

So my question still stands where does the money come from?

Daily reminder that taxation is theft.

t. Sanders Supporter

...

not an argument

GibsMeDems

>American's in charge of understanding government or the economy.
you're so far away from the actual topic it's ridiculous.

all the money that flows to the banks in the form of usury should instead be going to the people.

You're right, you don't deserve it. Just end your life now and save your suffering.

Fpbp

Nothing is free. It is earned. Simply existing as a citizen of a country doesn't earn you anything.

Also, what you get is based on what you do and how much effort was used to earn it.

> Using an apostrophe to make a word plural
If I can't trust you to speak the English language correctly, how can I trust your opinion?

>whether you work or not
>deserve
How the fuck does the leftist mind not collapse under such retardation?

If you want to get back on topic then can you answer my question? The question, I remind you, was: "How do you expect to make a profit by paying the government and then having it give the money back?"

Then you'd easily explain away my point instead of being a shitposting Australian.

It seems like it will make a lot of sense when automation gets out of hand

I want these communists out of my country

let's redifine citizen
>born in home country
>lived in home country for 10 or more years
>not a 1st or 2nd generation immigrant

now for who applies
>pay your federal taxes
>not a dependent
>minimum of 5 years of work experience
>no criminal history
>not on any state or federal watch list
>have to be 18
>not under any other federal assistance programs

now for the money
>dividend is state GDP per capita÷10 the first 3 years
>every 3 years it decreases, so state GDP per capita÷15, and so on
>not adjusted for inflation

The issue is that theoretically, this idea sounds excellent when you think about people that already work: they get enough money to live, and they have a safety net for when they either can't work or lose their job.

Then you consider how easily a system like this could be exploited. Many people simply won't work. Others will get lesser-paying part-time jobs. Then you consider how the richer people (who worked for their money) would feel when a significant portion of their income is going almost directly to poor people, many of whom have the capability to not be poor.

So it starts at irrelevant and becomes non-existent after a few decades?

this would make sense if america had a budget surplus.

which it could

this has also been called 'negative taxes' where the country takes more fees and taxes from other countries than it needs to spend altogether, and the surplus can just be handed out evenly to the citizenry.

Nothing stops a state from doing profit seeking business, although there would be many ways such activity might create conflict of interest.
Ultimately it would be beneficial for the shareholder citizen as far has the government corporation is concerned.

Investments, profitable government owned companies, war.

Once I become a NEET then sure. But I won't pay for lazy fucks to continue to be lazy fucks.

Nothing is free

>"How do you expect to make a profit by paying the government and then having it give the money back?"
I don't, that's not even slightly the concept see The government has things it makes money from (selling rights to land, resources, air, water, money magic, developed technologies, etc). The concept that America is even in debt is a ruse, it's actually leverage not debt. The USA government is rich off of it's citizens, it should be the other way around in a Democracy.

in theory it should help those who actually need it get while weeding out leeches

This would certainly fix a lot of issues with this idea, and are all very good additions to it. However, this is an extremely slippery slope, and in many countries wouldn't end up *replacing* other welfare programs, but would instead *add* to them. Then leftists would continuously fight to loosen the restrictions as to who gets the cash, opening up yet another thing to fight against.

Secretly, I'd actually be all right with this in the U.S. if and only if all other welfare programs were immediately discontinued and your definition of citizen were immediately instituted. Although would definitely add a restriction that, in order to receive the money, you have to have been employed for a certain amount of time (a few months full-time or 5-6 months part-time, at least) within the past year. That would be pretty easily exploitable, but would definitely help.

actually fpbp

Not all states in this union have giant oil fields. The Alaskan program that you're worshiping only payed around $2,000 per year to citizens at most. That's not nearly enough to make a difference and that money would be better spent elsewhere, ESPECIALLY if it's taken from things such as natural resources and land grants. Rebuilt infrastructure alone would cost more than that program would ever generate. This is all assuming that you're only taking the money from the things you outlined. If you're taking it from the public then there's literally no point at all.

I'm fine with conscription.

GUYS GUYS PLS STOP MISUNDERSTANDING

-WELFARE-
Defining parameters where people get paid by the government for certain situations to maintain a standard of living.

-UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME-
Everyone gets the same amount of money without means-testing. The level of money paid out is arbitrarily decided by the government.

-CITIZEN DIVIDEND-
Everyone gets the same amount of money based on measures of government profits. No profits means no pay. (Tax is obviously not a profit since all taxes are predetermined to go towards budgeted services. Overtaxation rebates are a separate issue entirely.)

Works well for us here in Alaska. We get paid simply for existing, while you DSMF sip out of our vast well of natural resources.

HEY RETARD, HOW DO YOU PAY OUT A DIVIDEND ON 20 TRILLION DOLLARS OF DEBT. DONALD TRUMP EARNS MONEY ON HIS -WEALTH-. WEALTH BEING THE KEY TERM.

How do you pay money on debt? You print it. Or you dramatically change the monetary system to an electronic one and then the people in charge can make infinite money with zero oversight.

Basic income/citizen dividend and all that bullshit is institutionalized slavery designed to lull people into a false sense of security as they get replaced by either immigrants or robots.

>oh sure goy, dont worry about unemployement. hey look, we will temporarily give you some money so its not a big deal and tell you its good for the rest of your life. when you are good and comfortable and in debt up to your eye balls paying it off with this free money, when we take it away one day you will fucking die :)

IT'S A SCAM.

Where is all of the US federal government's profits in heavy weapons sales going?

citizenship without duty leads to decay

public costs, private profits = socialism 101.

Don't know. I'd want it to go to road work, personally. Following that, city infrastructure. Anything other than the current dominant policy: Wellfare.

We don't need conscription though. Friends with a recruiter, he hits his monthly quotas within the first two days without even going out to schools or shit.

This is Sup Forums. They'll like the idea, but then realize niggers get it too.

Get a job

>interest on his wealth
Is Trump a banker?

Do the bankers even make any money worth mentioning on interest? The interest rate is at 0.25% in the US, its basically fucked the pension system and they don't get any growth at all.

This is some commie propaganda only meant to target lazy people. Do not fall for it.

this. there is no profit to pay a dividend off of because liberals cant into a balanced budget. liberals can't into economics so hard that they don't realize that to have a dividend you have to be in the black.

>being in the black
only poor black nations should ever want to be in the black. learn what leverage is and you'll understand why all western nation governments are the richest despite having the most """debt""".

Where's that money coming from?
Nobody in their right fucking mind will work you just get enough money to lead a good life simply by existing.

I'm a capitalist. I don't work for for, I work for money. If I get said money without working, I wouldn't fucking work.
At this point, we are dealing with people on the mental level of kindergartners.

Hey, I don't mind closing the stupid tax loopholes so that Companies actually pay taxes and doing something good with that money, but this is absurd.

>inflation is increasing the money supply.

Wrong. That's BS economic theory.

Printing money doesn't cause inflation. It's allowing investors to hold excessive amounts of short positions on a currency and then tying that currency to a foreign currency.

Ever wonder why we didn't experience hyper-inflation from quantitative easing?

its called communism