Key word being GRADUALLY, not sharp increase
Will Raising the miminum wage GRADUALLY help the people?
Ian James
Other urls found in this thread:
youtube.com
forbes.com
mises.org
aei.org
sfchronicle.com
mises.org
fee.org
npr.org
adamsmith.org
adamsmith.org
fee.org
fee.org
smithsonianmag.com
thevenusproject.com
citylab.com
en.wikipedia.org
anyforums.com
twitter.com
Justin Ramirez
the prices will rise as well.
Juan Fisher
This
Charles Clark
It already is gradually raised to match cost of living increases. You will continue to walk in place.
Juan Wright
No,
Kick out illegals and stop immigration this will cause wages to naturally go up
Hunter Bennett
No.
The more a business has to pay it's workers the higher it will raise the prices of it's product. At the very best, constantly raising wages will keep prices rising to match the new wage, invalidating the reason for even raising wages in the first place. At worst it puts financial strain on the company and they actually fire some workers to offset the increased cost, so while the remaining workers will be making more (and paying more now for stuff they need) there will also be several people who are not employed, some of them will return to the job market but others might just decide to go on welfare (especially if they were fired from a low wage job) and this creates a whole other problem where you have physically and mentally sound people who aren't working but still consume food, electricity, and space which all cost a metric shit-ton of money. We spend more on welfare than on any other program, military included, that isn't sustainable.
Lucas Brooks
Yes, the price of the milk, bread etc. But not the price of the games, softwares etc. In Hungary we pay the same for a game as people of the West pay, however a lot of things have different prices. So yeah, we may have to pay more for the milk and stuff, but the real things will be cheaper
Jordan Howard
>try to artificially raise the cost of labor, thus income of laborers
>accidentally make it illegal to employ low-value workers
Pick two.
Christopher Barnes
>The more a business has to pay it's workers the higher it will raise the prices of it's product.
This. The one thing to intelligent liberals can't comprehend: the costs will be passed along to the consumers. They aren't sticking it to the man, they are sticking it to themselves.
Noah Rodriguez
>price floor
Michael Myers
Prices rise due to inflation, not from increasing wages. The fact that they still have the minimum wage proves this.
William Morris
No. Raising the minimum wage based on location (ie county) is the best way to do it. Raising it to $15 at any point in the near future would absolutely destroy rural areas. It's too high as is.
Caleb Flores
No
But more importantly, where do you stop?
This is the strangest thing about people who argue for raising the minimum wage. If raising it by $1 is good, wouldn't $2 be better, and wouldn't $10 be even better? Why not just 100$? Where does it stop?
If you make an argument for raising the minimum wage, then there is no argument to be made to stop raising the minimum wage.
Aaron Miller
No, but unions will.
Christopher Cooper
>video games, not food, are the real important things in life
kill yourself Laszlo
Bentley Baker
As a small business owner, if they raised the minimum wage to $15/hr it would put me out of business, and 23 people would lose their jobs. Service industries like mine would be hit especially hard. Payroll is my biggest overhead, so I would have to raise my prices so much I would lose all my customers.
Owen Cruz
>minimum wage is $1, milk costs $1
>minimum wage is still $1, milk now costs $2
>minimum wage is still $1, milk now costs $3
>minimum wage is still $1, milk now costs $4
>"damn, milk is getting so expensive, I need a raise"
>"sorry, if we give you a raise will have to raise the price of milk"
>"oh, that makes sense"
>minimum wage is still $1, milk now costs $5
Jaxon Jackson
Yes, food is a necessity, entertainment is life
Joseph Gray
Maybe some kind of law that says everyone in the company has to make the same amount of money.
That would ensure that everyone is equal and no one can have anything anyone else doesn't have.
Jordan Garcia
>State frivolously prints a massive shitload of money.
>H-hey why is our currency losing value?!
Josiah Thomas
Yes. Gradually increasing it would be great for society. Good luck getting that to happen, though.
Chase Martinez
>Have minimum wage laws
>Import shitskins and act complacent towards millions of illegals
Pick one.
Eli Mitchell
Businesses need to downsize for all different kinds of reasons. If revenues decrease you will probably have to fire people anyway. But, by having a living wage for anyone you keep on will allow them to in turn buy more goods and services. This creates more revenue for those companies who in turn hires more staff. You can't just look at the effects of minimum wage on an individual business, it has flow on effects to the entire economy.
Christian Howard
>Placing tariffs on foreign goods won't hurt the US economy because labor is a very limited part of the costs of goods produced and will be offset by the overall economic growth.
>Raising minimum wage will make labor too expensive the cost of goods will explode and the economy can't handle it.
Pick one and only one America.
Jose Thompson
Increasing wages will make the lives of frugal-jerks/ cheapskates and those currently living with an extended family (who doesn't need to provide for them) better
If you aren't these people, enjoy your $20 latte, costs are always passed to the consumer eventually
John Morgan
In other words, its not due to minimum wage increases. Thanks for clearing that up.
Joseph Davis
If the minimum wage is higher, anyone left with a job will be paid 'at least' the new minimum wage.
Low paid workers generally spend anything they earn (they don't tend to invest in stock markets, etc.), therefore any wage increase goes straight back into the economy in some form. If more people are buying things from a local store, that place in turn can afford to hire more staff from the increased revenue.
Jonathan Powell
You're viewing this as a closed system. Other locations aren't arbitrarily inflating the cost of labor, so the locations that do are shooting themselves in the foot.
If everywhere set their minimum wage to the same rate then there wouldn't be much of any difference at all after the system is allowed to restabilize.
Christopher Walker
ITT People who don't understand basic economics.
Raising the minimum wage does not happen in a vacuum. It comes with tax increases, entitlement increases, healthcare, education, and other social safety net factors.
It cannot be analyzed in terms of herp derp I'll have to close my bakery because I can't pay mexicans 6$ an hour anymore.
With basic needs met, and more cash, the working class (and resurgent middle class) will have more spending power. This will allow your small business to succeed anyway, despite having to raise prices.
They key is to implementation is gradual increments of wage raises AND the other liberal things I listed before.
That being said, fuck poor people.
Bentley Hill
Inflation drives a necessity for wage increases in some ways. For example, if a dollar is only worth half of what it was (Because twice as many dollars exist now), a survivable wage is effectively doubled. If we stopped devaluing our currency there wouldn't be any need to constantly raise wages, because the value of individual units of currency wouldn't be constantly dropping.
Michael Carter
What about raising the minimum wage with the inflation's percentage? That's basically getting the same amount of money as last year
Jackson Barnes
$15/hour can fuck right off, but It's hard to justify not pegging it to inflation. Minimum is minimum for a reason, but it shouldn't decrease in value over time.
Deciding what minimum should be before pegging it to inflation is the hard part.
Andrew Sanchez
yes, it will gradually phase you out of the job market rather than immediately
Henry Hill
It should be a human rights violation to force people to be paid a minimum wage.
You are infringing on a ton's of people right to work for less pay.
Henry Howard
a fucking tree
>Raising the minimum wage does not happen in a vacuum. It comes with tax increases, entitlement increases, healthcare, education, and other social safety net factors.
holy shit
Logan Ward
That was pretty much my argument though; look at my other posts
Benjamin Garcia
>how does business work?
I'm sure many businesses could not exist with higher minimum wages.
they would gradually go bankrupt.
But on the other hand more and more tasks will be automated putting more and more people out of work creating a bigger and bigger problem with a growing world population.
people have to be able to live without work soon.
There are McDonalds where you can order from a tablet, you don't need people to take your order anymoe. Heating up the food can be automated too, so there's only 1-2 people needed to run a McDonalds for example.
Amazon patenting drone delivery and flying storages putting delivery services out of work.
The concept that everyone has to work to survive will soon have to find an end with increasingly efficient technology this will not work out.
And stopping tech to have people work would be stupid, as with tech you can improve the overall comfort for humans.
tl;dr: we need another concept than working for money for food/home.
Carter Wood
If you're looking at a macroeconomic level, downsizing = unemployment = less money for people to spend on goods and services. Less revenue also means less opportunity for expansion, which means fewer jobs that would have been created if companies had more capital to expand.
You talk about a "living wage", but all of my employees do fine. They have nice cars, smartphones, they take care of their kids. No one is suffering at my company, we have a very high employee retention rate because I treat them well and they love their jobs.
Leo Watson
If it goes to $15 I know my jew union will go crazy demanding an equivalent increase to all employee wages. No doubt that'll happen everywhere and so the minimum wage makes no difference except to small business owners.
Bentley Ward
The minimum wage will always be $0. Having the government pretend it's something else only increases unemployment and drives businesses out of the country.
Owen Thomas
Maybe if businesses raised their hourly wages for each employee according to a living wage, maybe.
But as it stands right now, its too low to be useful, or too high to keep people around.
Jaxson Carter
This doesn't change buying power. You're just shuffling numbers around.
Aiden Murphy
C'mon, OP.
Jayden Johnson
>if a dollar is only worth half of what it was (Because twice as many dollars exist now)
It's not that simplistic. Our GDP is gradually increasing. It has blown up massively since the time when average people were making decent wages. Average people are now more productive than ever and bringing more value to their companies than ever, so in theory, they should be rewarded with wage increases, which was the promise of trickle down that was never fulfilled, despite tax cuts meme being as prevalent as ever.
The money for wage increases is there. It's that those with the checkbook would rather hoard it. That simple. They can raise the prices of anything they want, we should be allowed to raise the cost of our labor, and that starts with minimum wage increases.
Christian Reyes
lol
Wyatt Morgan
if you want a raise negotiate it with your boss and/ or find another job
don't enforce governmental restrictions on the economy because you've beefed it in life
Christopher Evans
The best way to help the economy grow is to keep the government away from it.
Colton Brown
The less they buy milk the more it's going to cost. Eventually they run out of business if they keep raising the cost. Raising minimum wage would devastate small businesses and gradually bring down the prices in those that survived and rely on goods that the producer can (and is willing to) increase their production of.
Raising the minimum wage is a bad idea.
Colton Reyes
>It cannot be analyzed in terms of herp derp I'll have to close my bakery because I can't pay mexicans 6$ an hour anymore.
Fucking trees don't understand microeconomics.
Wyatt Anderson
>we should be allowed to raise the cost of our labor
finally you're getting somewhere
are there other ways to raise cost of labour? perhaps one that preps for the arrival of the massive layoffs from automation
Ian Perez
This. Human race is so evil and shitty. We are all greedy cunts...
Brody Brooks
THE SAME GUY!
WITH THE SAME PIC!
WITH THE SAME (TYPE) OF QUESTIONS!
EVERYDAY!
this is surely spam!
Elijah Ward
No one forces you to buy milk that's too expensive. They can't raise the price forever cause eventually there'll be no demand.
Charles Rogers
Nope. fiat currency is shit. Combine it with a capitalist system and you'll understand why everyone wants to be a commie.
Chase Perry
No.
Minimum wage does absolutely nothing but insrease inflation.
Minimum wage goes up. How is it paid for?
Cost on goods and service.
So everything costs more.
All you get is inflation. The poor are still poor.
Dominic Davis
Nope actually it doesn't
www.heritage.org/research/testimony/2013/06/what-is-minimum-wage-its-history-and-effects-on-the-economy
>minimum wage hurts job growth
forbes.com
>Minimum wage increase forces employers to fire employees
mises.org
>5 prominent economists arguments against minimum wage
>the recent increase in minimum wage in Seattle is killing jobs
sfchronicle.com
>high minimum wage in San Fran is killing Child Care Industry
mises.org
>filled with links to research about how increasing minimum wage kills growth
fee.org
>Labor unions can't make up their damn mind
npr.org
>seriously real effects of raising the minimum wage, just to raise it
adamsmith.org
>Living Wage false prophecy
adamsmith.org
>Income inequality is bullshit
fee.org
>Labor Unions bring unemployment
fee.org
>title says it all
Links are from several different perspectives of different economists
Ian Bailey
It isn't about me, doofus. It's about strengthening the middle class. It isn't even about "helping le poor people." Our country is becoming third-world. If the people keep getting poorer, our infrastructure and morality will crumble even further.
Trump gets it. He's been around the world. He's seen what I've seen. He's wondered to himself why our cities are becoming so shit compared to every other major city in the world. And he realizes it's the government's problem. That's why he's proposed $1T infrastructure spending. That's why he's said before that raising the minimum wage is a good idea. Try listening to the man and not just the memes.
Elijah Reyes
wrong. prices rise gradually over time due to inflation/growing population. higher wages means places will hire FEWER people (and FIRE people). Unemployment goes up, but standard of living goes up for those who have jobs
Juan Nguyen
see
Thomas Brooks
The present minimum wage is untenable. It is grossly out of balance. You must look in the past where the minimum wage worked quite well for the benefit of American society. Today, the minimum wage is grossly out of balance with our inflation. But then again, you don't live in America
Austin Flores
Is almost like if every time the bank makes a loan the value of my dollar drops.
Robert Hernandez
>Conservative think tanks
Wew lad
Hudson James
So you want a gradual reduction of employment and gradual inflation?
Ryder Bennett
we have gradual inflation already.
Ethan Nguyen
I'm annoyed with how hot that girl is - like I'm being mind-raped. Girls shouldn't be allowed to take pictures.
>the camera Jew did this to us
Nolan Rogers
Radical ideas, user. What do you propose? Population control would certainly be required, and at least some people would still need to work, building, maintaining and supervising the mechanized worker. I guess it depends on how efficient our food production can be.
Aiden Bell
>You are infringing on a ton's of people right to work for less pay.
This is now a thread on the merits of Lochner v. New York and its progeny.
Christian Smith
Forgot to add "inb4 Lochnerizing."
Luis Rodriguez
>What do you propose?
Not sure.
I'm aware of population tests with animals where it has been shown that there is something as too big populations.
>Population control would be the first best step
depending on how much can be automated, assuming some time in the future like 90-95%.
People just need to be provided with food and housing for free.
like machines can gather and provide foods automatically.
machines can print / assemble houses automatically.
machines can build other machines automatically.
machines can do doctor work and surgery automatically.
there have to be just a few selected people to maintain and develop (new) machines.
But even if machines can do most of the work the population can't grow too big, social tension and limits of natural resources are a barrier.
Austin Sullivan
Nope, and all economists, at least at my uni (U of Toronto) agree.
Wages are ultimately regulated by demand and supply. Inserting a minimum wage is artificially interfering and thus creating economic unefficiency.
For example: minimum wage goes up, cost of living goes up, more workers get fired and unemployment rises.
Not to mention it's only a stronger incentive for greater automation.
Samuel Baker
Problem with growing minimal wage is that gov. desn't want to rise it to help citizens but to get more money (because they don't lower % of taxes in wages.
Aiden Reed
Hudson Brown
yes, that was the experiment i had in mind.
Reading through this:
>When the population started declining the beautiful ones were spared from violence and death, but had completely lost touch with social behaviors, including having sex or caring for their young.
we're already there.
>We need another holocause or war to reduce the population.
>this will benefit the planet and us humans.
Eli King
18 of our states raised the minimum wage above the federal minimum wage; Not only did workers benefit from that but there was no signs of depression. As for unemployment, theoretically if you sharply raised it then yes there would be unemployment. And even then unemployment should not be the end-all argument for increasing wages, because a 0% unemployment (considered the most ideal) is basically slavery. As for wages being higher, those low paid workers will now spend more than ever, and ultimately those wage increases goes straight back into the economy. If more people are buying things from their local store, then that store in turn can afford to hire more staff from the increased revenue.
Elijah Murphy
Sources for benefits?
As to your theoretical part, it is debatable if they will spend more instead of saving.
Besides, paying more to employees with the expectation of getting more becomes zero sum, right? No profit or loss
I'm only a first year economics students so I'm still not completely proficient in the field.
Blake Anderson
No. Ever instance of it has failed disastrously.
Any attempt to increase minimum wage has only led to several of these:
1) people lose their jobs entirely.
Usually replaced by foreign workers)
2) people get rehired as consultants, part-time or flexi-time, avoiding minimum wage. *
3) people get rehired on zero hour or similar time contracts.*
* both cases not reading the fine print.
4) the company dies after a period because they can't compete with the former 3 scummy companies and their scummy practices.
It's been happening in the UK on a massive scale ever since the minimum wage was introduced.
Companies don't care about the run-on effects of others having more money to be able to buy their products. They only give a shit about their own direct, measurable finances. And minimum wage is horrible for them, so they end up doing the first 3 options above or close up shop.
Decreasing the cost of living is the only realistic way to improve life for everyone.
Good fucking luck getting that to happen.
Gabriel Carter
oh also this concept is nice: The Venus Project
thevenusproject.com
if i understood that right it's a concept to build a society that lives without money.
There are many ideas i find really interesting in this.
But no idea how we go from our current situation to something like this.
It's a society build on natural resources, not money.
10 companies don't need to build 100 differen't washing machines to compete for money, you just use the best resources that are available (keyword: available). Don't use more than necessary to build a good and long lasting product rather than a product people have to buy again in a few years to make more money, because this way it's not necessary.
Go play golf and choose from the best golf clubs at the course, because that's where you need it, you don't need a golf club at home.
You can take it home though, but there's no reason to.
Crimes are treated as an illness.
You don't need to steal because everything is provided as you need it.
Murder or attacks are mental problems.
Schooling is provided centrally.
there are sensors all over the world to measure the current state of available resources.
and more stuff i think.
It's pretty cool imo, but i have no idea how realizable it is.
Logan Carter
Besides, setting a minimum wage means workers cannot negotiate a wage themselves.
A worker in McDonald's is automatically paid minimum, instead of having the freedom to negotiate a wage that satisfies both him and the employer.
Joshua Hernandez
Charles Green
Yes but only if you're taxing the shit out of them also. Otherwise the jobs will be taken by foreign others
Gavin Morris
No. Fuck off. If you don't have a profitable skillset you should starve and die.
James Jenkins
Not using money - how will you trade?
Using money, taking away competition creates a monopoly, which is the worst possible thing in economic terms.
Adam Ross
Which instances have raising the minimum wage failed in the United States? As far as I'm concerned, it hasn't failed the people. We need to tie the minimum wage to inflation
Charles Morgan
Well, there is several Billion (yes, billion) people that only use local currencies or bartering.
They don't operate in currency-run economies directly. Being that the money itself isn't what runs the economy, just helps standardize trade.
I think most of these currencies even have a maximum unit that one person can have to prevent people hoarding money and encourage people doing jobs.
Some currencies without them have exchanges that will exchange your local currency for a globally traded fiat currency.
There's 2500+ of them around the world and growing.
In most cases, you'll never really notice them unless you go beyond the consumer-world in to the producer-world. Things operate very differently in that area of the economy. Completely and utterly different operation.
Some people do it just for fun as well, just doing it as a side job, or to learn new skills.
Then there are others that solely live off these currencies.
And it's not just "shit poor folk", it's people that are actually pretty fucking rich.
Most of these billions live in developed and fairly developed nations. The others just live in "underdeveloped" areas, aka places where people don't have access to 20 trillion iPads per household. Not even poor in the slightest. Most poor people live in the developed world. In relative terms, not financial. (lack of access to basic necessities on a regular basis poor, even in spite of decent welfare)
>We need to tie the minimum wage to inflation
That's why it has failed and increasing it to that would make it fail considerably harder than it has done now.
Half the country are on semi or permanent welfare.
That's not worked. That's failed disastrously.
The UK is on that path as well.
Minimum wage is a meme. It is done to get Good Boy points for elections, pretty much.
Henry Smith
what do you want to trade for?
need a TV? order one from the central production state, get it automatically delivered to your place.
PC?Internet? all inclusive, get the most recent model as you order it, if you need a new one send it back for recycling and get a new model.
products are not provided by private companies, they're provided by something you could technically call a governing group centrally for that product line that does not work for money but for their own interest in having this product the best way possible and they can use all the resources available to create it and are not limited by money/funds.
Products may be designed user customizable and after design produced by machines.
Order what you want -> machines build it right then -> automatic delivery to your home.
no need to trade anythign in for a product or food.
But we probably need a smaller world population to have this sustainable.
Lucas Ramirez
haven't you ever seen the movie "In Time" with Justin Timberlake?
>lets give time (money) to all the people
>oh no! the prices of everything went up! we made no difference at all!
>okay, this time let's let's give time (money) to all the people-- AGAIN!
>hey, it worked this time!
>for no reason!
Jason Reyes
No. Jobs will just go underwater GRADUALLY
Jonathan Anderson
There's actually quite some truth to this.
There's quite a few currencies that run via time.
en.wikipedia.org
It's quite interesting.
I've been looking in to considering doing some stuff
Landon Evans
>middle class
>minimum wage
no
Carter Green
Lowering it gradually will help, and allow its eventual elimination. Why are you still trying /leftypol/? You fucking lost every which way, wasting our time here with your canned copypasta persuasion won't change the fact that welfare is getting a drastic cut, and minimum wage is probably going away entirely.
Sorry, you lost, is this just salt? Trying to slide the board with shitty leftist shit?
Jonathan Watson
Higher salary expenses = less workers
Mason Thompson
what
Jacob Allen
The min wage debates I never bothered with because people on both side just like the climate shit tend to approach it from a hipster or anti-hipster hipster perspective politically. On one hand the left is asking for more when machines can do things cheaper so they should feel lucky to still have a job. On the other hand the cuckservatives like to go on and on about the federal reserve and tell you all about them printing worthless money and how it doesn't matter how much is spent on Israel and niggers yet get upset when poor white kids ask for money of that fake money. Makes no sense on either side of the politically faggoty left and right both.
Christian Fisher
>minimum wage
>middle class
The correct middle salary is at least $40-50k and that's on the low end. Minimum wage only helps poverty and lower class. Even fucking trades jobs don't earn less than $20k during their apprenticeship. This is just for the ones too lazy to learn a trade or earn a practical degree/certificate so they have to work at a register or grocery store.
FFS if you live in the city, go learn to walk some fucking dogs, make $300 in less than 5hrs, and fuck around with the rest of your day.
Nathaniel Campbell
lol you retard are you in high school?
Oliver Rogers
A raise in minimum wage puts more people in the middle class.
Brayden Garcia
>What is inflation
I have an idea /leftypol/. Bear with me now because it seems a bit crazy but what it.....what if we lowered the cost of living instead? Just come at the problem from the other side
Anthony Ramirez
>Minimum wage only helps poverty and lower class.
That's where you're wrong. Giving more people more spending power helps everybody, especially the middle class.
Jace Adams
>my business cant afford to pay its employees $15 an hour
sounds like you got a terrible business plan senpai
maybe you should go get that associates in business management after all, university of phoenix should have open enrollment
Hudson Barnes
Which means standard of living goes down because that is what a standard of living is.