To the mexican that wrote pic related

To the mexican that wrote pic related.

Where are you? I still have some time to educate you.

Other urls found in this thread:

mexonline.com/history-porfiriodiaz.htm
brechtforum.org/files/filefield/Katz- Labor Conditions.pdf
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Don't leave me hanging user.

This was my post. You were in the thread before it got archived and you never answered. I have more to tell you.

Don't mind me, I'm just lurking in case this gets interesting; here, have a friendly bump.

I was typing more for you user. But then the thread was archived. I'll leave a last set of messages, hoping you will read it so you could become, a little bit, less stupid. And you see it as a personal sincere invitation for you to study your history.

-------

Part 2. On the actions of Diaz that followed his rise to power.

I already mentioned some but it is good to reference them again.

1. He stripped the people from their individual freedoms.
2. He stripped the lands from the people and gave it to his closed ones, but mainly foreigners in exchange of their support. Note: the country wasn't benefited from us in any way.
3. He turned our country into a foreign slave labor colony. Lots of documentation on this for you to find.
4. Destroyed any type of progress that was achieved by previous leaders.

Diaz did make sure Mexico city looked clean and secure. Once people got out... things didn't look so good. The people weren't secure. Under his regime many were taken against their will by either the police or other organizations and then moved far away to Yucatan or the north to work as nameless workers until their death. Those who were lucky to belong to the middle class and had a job didnt rejoice either.

It was the upper class who got the most out of it, as they were benefitted by the criminal practices that Diaz goverment allowed.

What criminal practices? Why was Mexico so attractive to foreigners? I mentioned it several times already. They could get a max amount of profit, because they didn't even have to paid their workers. There was no goverment regulation, the law was forgotten. The average opinion of your local foreign capitalist that owned a estate was that ''they could generate more profit by working the person to dead, instead of feeding him. Then they could just get more''. This last thing wasn't difficult. The goverment allowed it, they even supplied it.

cont.

from this*

Supplied it? Yes. Ever heard of the Yaqui massacre? Is just one of many examples of people who got their lands stripped from them. Then lured into a pointless war that led to them being separated from their families and sent in trains to several points on the country where they were used till exhaustion and then dead.

Such was the case of many others from the middle classes to the lower classes. As the condition of the average worker wasn't any better. As they were subjected to the will and the exploitation of their lords.

I guess a society without labor rights is fine right? Such was the case of Mexico prior to 1910. A government that allowed the invasion and aggressive takeover of foreign economies and investors. A regime that used and let others use the people to their wills, as if the Mexican was nothing more but cattle. And a dictator that brought nothing to the table but debt, a country in shambles and set it for the next 20 years of tragedies. Less that 40% of the people knew how to read and write. And what followed his abdication was but a period of instability, that never existed before him and that he supported for more than 30 years because ''the people of Mexico werent ready to govern themselves'' when they had been doing it prior to him.

>4. Destroyed any type of progress that was achieved by previous leaders.
define this a bit more. Did he ban transgenders from bathrooms?

Of course. You talk about how beautiful Mexico city was. It sure was. There we can agree.

The rest of our country was, more or less, in the hands of United States. And Diaz was, as always, being maintained by foreign interests.

Nothing was ours. By the end of his regime the trains and railways were in the hands of United States. Same applies to the rest, our oil, our lands, etc.

The revolution saved what little it could.

All of this is carefully documented. If you had taken a little effort to educate yourself you'll know about this.

I think he means economic progress and whatnot. Pretty sure Diaz was the commie faggot that turned Mexico into the shithole that it is today.

Mexico used to be a really nice place.

Mexico had never experienced peace prior to Juarez. What forged Diaz was the resistance and the posterior defeat of a foreign invader, such as during the french intervention.

The small period of peace was characterized by an interest on developing education, industry and maintaining the peace. More than that, working towards giving much needed rights to those who never had them and reforming constitution in order to achieve some sort of status quo.

Prior to Diaz the country was blooming. His rule destroyed everything that was done, just so he could be benefited.

Bump because you blew the fuck out of somebody it looks like.

Propaganda by foreign nations that supported him was on a complete different level.

Foreign investors loved him. American ones more than anything. In their opinion ''They loved Diaz more than Taft'' (their president at the time).

If you investigated the amount of propaganda that was distributed about him prior to the revolution on the United States you would be amazed. They wrote hundreds of books about him, all of them filled with sugarcoated words to fool the regular American into believing Mexico was one of the best places of the world because of their dictator.

It was impossible to escape from him too. The United States conspired in the killing of people fleeing from his persecutions. Diaz had agents all over the United States and tons of influences that pursued his ''enemies'' if they dared to cross the border. The US denied to give political asylum to those individuals too, and their armies witnessed the killings of people who only wanted a possibility to survive in their on country.

...

So, Diaz left power ever since 1911. Has mexico been a dump ever since?

No.

The reality is this. The revolution was meant to happen. Diaz wouldn't have lasted a year if he hadn't get the aid of the United States and their armies. This is what the intellectuals who backed the revolution feared the most: a foreign intervention.

Diaz left a country that didn't know how to rule itself. But many who had many ideas on how to do it.

Francisco I. Madero, who was commanding the revolution to that moment, was one of the many faces of the revolution and, more or less, the commander of the revolutionary forces by 1910. He never really wanted to rule. Which led him to commit terrible decisions:

1. He allowed a person to temporary take the presidential seat so said person could put the country into order and then start the elections so a new leader could be elected.

2. When he could, he didn't get rid of the majority of those who supported Diaz. Most of them being in the senate and some government seats all over the country.

3. Him, supporting democracy, couldn't stand the idea of simply taking over the presidential seat.

Cont.

...

>yfw this Mexican is actually intellectual

Give that man a greencard

I mentioned above that Diaz demise led to around 20 years of tragedies. This is more or less true.

Because the revolution never ended, nor fully materialized its ideas onto the country until way later, when those who supported Diaz were defeated.

Madero witnessed a second revolution unfolding, as now they would have to fight the one he trusted to carry on his duty (the acting president).

The tl;dr version of this is that war didn't end till 1920 - ish.

Those 10 long years were filled with conflict, betrayal and chaos.

So not only you have a weak country, weak because it was decimated by a merciless dictatorship supported by foreign interest, you have a conflict that lasted more than 10 years after it. That's how behind Mexico was. And those same things that happened then are still felt now.

And at the end of it was the rise of soviets, if i get the general timelines in order.

That, and the ensuring cold war later on would guarantee foreign interests inevitably. How did mexico navigate that after the 20 years of confusion was over?

Bump, want to know where is that culon

With another 71 years of single party dictatorship!

No mames, best thread ive seen all day.

I'm freaking out a little, Who are you? What did you meant by this?

Quality of tacos has shot up massively after Trump victory. Wonder if leafs will follow suit.

Canadians have been posting about Trudeau and its (2017) typical Canadians think we give a shit about their irrelevant asses.

At least im learning something of value ITT

Difficult.

The revolution had one goal in mind:

1. To give the people what was taken from them
2. To grant them the rights they deserved.
3. Most importantly, give rights to those who never had em.

A key point:

4. To get the country back

I repeat. By 1910, most of our industry, our rail roads, the trains, the refineries, our oil, was in the hands of foreign investors. Given to them by Diaz. You would expect that from such exchange the country would be benefited? Such thing never happened, at least rarely, they used us and they stole from us.

By the time (1934) president Cardenas was fighting to get our oil back we confronted the the sad irony that in the end we had to pay up for the ''good things Diaz did'' for this place.

There's many little things. Prior to Cardenaz, president Plutarco Elias Calles (an ex revolutionary) started the Cristero War, in which those who opposed the separation of the church and the state (among other things) dared to voice their unconformity. What they found was oppression, bullets and bayonets. They never had a chance.

After Cardenaz, the political climate of Mexico changed. The bare bones of our current parties were forged around that time. For example, Cardenaz formed the PNR (the PRI precursor).

cont.

many goals in mind*

The revolution had triumph to some extent. The lands were given back. The workers rejoiced. There was progress. And, most importantly, there was peace.

Between then and today, many things and fuck ups (MANY, a notable one is the massacre of the 68) have happened.

In the end, one thing Is for sure:

The best political class this country has ever seen fought and died in 1910. A period characterized by idealistic individuals who were ready to give everything to carry this country into something more. Such an event, such types of people, cannot compare to the joke of politicians we have today.

Like I mentioned on a prior thread. Those who have carried successful revolutions were intellectuals who knew their history, men of science. This is why I get so mad when I see anons (Mexicans mainly) with such opinions talking about starting revolutions, about destroying the current regime, about ''doing something'' when they don't have any idea of what to do. Because when they make claims like those, they prove they have failed at one of the most important things: to know their fucking history.

Mexico needs a Youth Spring to get rid of the Old Vanguard Parties
>PAN
>PNR

And that stupid ass fake party

>PVE

I really don't trust any party in Mexico, all we know they might be Cont-Opted parties.

ITT; Butthurt spics

Were the free masons behind the Cristero War? You seem to know your Mexican history.

I thought "Mexican Intellectuals" was a meme. This is awesome.

Noice prokshy.

>The best political class this country has ever seen fought and died in 1910. A period characterized by idealistic individuals who were ready to give everything to carry this country into something more. Such an event, such types of people, cannot compare to the joke of politicians we have today.

I feel there is a bit of an equal overlap here with the cannonization of the soviet revolutionaries. And i would say that the intentions seemed to be almost entirely the same, minus marxist fluffery on top of it.


I agree that history is the personal memory of a country, and those that do not know it cant know the nations character or guide it. But what is the merit of the current regime, if you say that all the great politicans died in 1910?

Also, this is a bit off-topic but i'm related to Lázaro Cárdenas & apparently he was in favor of Nazi Germany &I didn't allow Jews to come into Mexico but again I don't know if this is true. My family does have pictures of him with Fidel Castro so I'm confused as to how he could be on what seems to be Castros side but also Hitler's.

Mexico was a moderator between Cuba and The U.S so don't be supprised.

>Chale con tu post
????

(Whats up with your post?)

Never heard of chale, I've been learning Spanish for a few years.

So Op where do you see Mexico in 2020s?

Chale isn't proper Spanish that's why, it's slang.

Its slang bruh, get güt.

Fucking slang
Ich bin kein mexicanisher

>workers were paid slaves
>foreign capitalists taking advantage of industrialization

Sounds like standard late XIXth century society, even happened in Britain, Germany, Russia, USA, Japan... hence why commie revolutions happened.

Well if you were Mexican you would understand Amerikaner, aguas wey El Castellano Mexico es diffrente muy differente Al Castellano Peninsular. Yo personalmente creo que el castellano Peninsular es muy bulgar.

That... I do not know. Unlikely I believe. Most of them were people who felt (and it was a reality) that their right to profess their religion was being threatened. If anything, I do remember reading about catholic church organizations encouraging them to revolt. Which led to an uprising that wasn't all that successful, in which many innocents died.

>But what is the merit of the current regime

Its very difficult to answer this. There´s unrest and discontent with the political class of this country. Speaking for myself, I do not trust them in any way. I believe them to be rotten to the core. BUT, there´s some that stand out and want good for this place, sadly they are at the bottom, they will never get anywhere as this new hidden game that goes on in the positions of power must be difficult to maneuver with the amount of corruption.

As for insecurity, I cannot give much opinion on it. I've never experienced it. Although Cartel fights were common back in 2010 in my city, they never happened again. Where did they go? Why did they go? What happened to that war on drugs our previous president advocated for? But I do hear from other, more rural places, where bad things seem to happen.

It was his way to disregard everything I say.

''to hell with your post'' - Something like that. I've never used the word ''chale'' honestly.

How so? Cuba was poised to become a US state before Castro. Guantanamo has been US held before Cuba was even Cuba.

Those were antimonarchal-antiauthorian liberal movements you dumby

What I meant was It must of been a strictly Pragmatic political meeting.

This is not a /pol related post
sorry///no interest in such de-railments

This is the type of Chicano I welcome to legally immigrate anytime he wants. Put in an app anytime you want to join the winning team.

Your country is about to go from third world to fourth world once NAFTA gets Trumped. Food for thought.

So basically, there is nobody better around to take over, and you fear any instability would just open the country up for a foreign pillaging once more?

Strange. All the men in my family at the time who were living in Michoacán fought in the war because the (((government))) was trying to rid Mexico of Catholicism (a goal that free masons have always had, to destroy the Catholic Church). But care to elaborate on your claim about the Catholic Church encouraging them to revolt?

Such is the life of living under the shadow of a colossus, I think you would also understand living next to russia, or maybe youre russian?

Qué? Estoy borracho.

You know NAFTA only fucked us more and made the elite more rich?

Without it we have a chance to make our own things, but I'm not that optimist.

Workers were forced to stay in local camps and improvised houses with their families. To some, their ''payment'' was in the form of credit, so they could buy food in the local store (which was placed by the company there in the first place). They couldn't leave and, most importantly, they couldn't complain (at best they would be fired, else they would disappear along with their family).

Not only that, the conditions (considering the testimonials) were terrible and inhuman. Many complaints were filled to the local governors and to Diaz. Again, at best they were ignored. At worst, they were sent to prison or moved away from the place god knows where.

If you were a middle class citizen in Mexico local organizations had the power of kidapping you and sending you to work to god knows which forsaken place in the south, north, or the coast. This existed in two forms:

1. Straight kindapping in the middle of the night
2. They would hunt those in need of a job and offer them one in an unspecified place. In order to get more information they had to go to certain house in the district. Where they would grab them, dress them with different clothes and make them sign a paper against their will. From then on they had a ''debt'' they had to repay. After than, they were moved to some god forsaken place, where they had a ''chance'' to pay the debt if they worked hard. This was a mere lie. These foreign slavers worked them till dead.

Where do you think the stereotype of the ''Mexican is lazy'' originated? From those slavers themselves.

They used to say that... ''These Mexicans refuse to work and in turn prove to be a damage to our profits''. What they never considered is that they rarely gave any food to these individuals because, according to them... ''Its cheaper to get a new slave''

The point here is that those things happened during Diaz regime and, most importantly, were endorsed by the government. Slavery was, more or less, ''legal''.

Mexican Spanish is more ubermensch than other forms of Spanish (not including the original Spanish).

I was about to laugh until you said Spanish Spanish

Nafta let companies like Monsanto to destroy the Agricultural sector of the mexican economy there after unemploying rural people who later emigrated to the U.S

Food for thought.

>''Its cheaper to get a new slave''
Now that just sounds so surreal i am going to need sources on this. The disposal of a slave, and retraining them for the job takes more work than just feeding one.

Nah bro I watch Spanish t.V all the time, they speak so Goß I feel dirty when I turn off the T.V

That I do not know user. Most of the things I've read about that specific time (not many) never linked it to the Masons.

But as I said, Elias Calles seemed to have those types of inclinations such as the ones you described. And, whether he conspired with freemasons or he was one himself, he put them into action. So it is a possibility.

In the end, well, he got his best compadre Obregon shot because of it, right after he became president for a second term.

But what you mention is an interesting point of view I've never heard of. Will have to inform myself more on it tho.

>Where do you think the stereotype of the ''Mexican is lazy'' originated? From those slavers themselves.
WE

But GMOs and Monsanto are banned in Mexico because their seeds sparse and outgrow the local, this to protect our many variations of corn.

This was a nice thread.

Gracias OP, estoy muy orgulloso de ti. Una muestra de sabiduría que no se ve tanto en estos hilos.

They try so hard to pronounce things so Americanly, its sad we say shit phoniclly like

Vi de o

Instead they say Vidio

We say Cellular, cell phone right

They say mobile. What the fuck is a mobile, like a Car or something?

Computaroda, computer

They say Ordenadora

Escribanos lawyer

We say Abogado

Their Spanish is so fucking out dated.

Shouldn't you be getting ready to build that wall?

Dude stop sending Jobs to Mexico!

What are you talking about

>Beaner is about to go make Mexico great again.
Go do it Pablo. As an Arizonan I'm ready to go and kick some drug cartel ass.

Mexicans should bow and scrape at the feet of the US like the fucking dogs that they are.

>Now that just sounds so surreal
mexonline.com/history-porfiriodiaz.htm
>the indigenous were forced into a debt-slavery system.
>Porfirio and his advisors followed the philosophy of positivism whose basic tenet prized economic development no matter what the cost

that's the tl;dr

this is the long one
brechtforum.org/files/filefield/Katz- Labor Conditions.pdf

I don't mind the wall, but you and I both know it won't be built or if it is it'll be a fence.

Yeah after they rekted the industry. The Honey producers in Yucatan were also targeted. They competed with companies in america who produced Corn syrup substitutes of honey.

It would be mean to not throw you guys some scraps every now and again :/

>bulgar
Suicídate. Hay variantes del español hispanoamericano que me gustan (el rioplatense, por ejemplo), pero a ti, subnormal, te recomiendo que aprendas a escribir.

>t. español

At how cheap it was? And how much offer they were getting from the Mexican goverment?

Some were fed, sometimes. Claims that they were given something that looked like ''bread'' but that looked wet and was soft to the touch, probably a mixture of corn, that was given to them at the start of the day and at the end of it.

What followed was a period of 4 hour of sleep, at best. By 5 am, they had to go up, work all day again, non stop. Or else the whip would fall onto them.

A good place to start is to research onto the Yaqui exile. Some info is exposed here.

mexconnect . com/articles/3552-yaqui-in-exile-the-grim-history-of-mexico-s-san-marcos-train-station

Saying Mexican Spanish is Ubermensch when in fact Mexican spanish is more polite than her European Counterpart, I was triggered.

>an actual mexican intellectual

2017 is off to a great start

Fence first wall second ;)

Wall may come 2nd term

That's a lot of concrete, isn't it cheaper just to have mine field's and UAVs?

No te estoy mintiendo. Yo consumo mucha television de España,Peru,Argentina, Colombia, y chile.
Chile me gusta pero El castellano de Argentia es pesimo y dicen muchas bulgaridades en la television.

america has signed a treaty banning the use of mines.

You do know mexico is paying right?

Treaties were made to be broken

Who put you in charge of pol faggot?

Also this

If I were El Presidio, I mean El Gran President de Mejico! I would build a Wall to stop those Filthy Guatemaltecos, jk.

jew go away

All Spanish dialects have polite, familiar, and vulgar variants. An educated Spaniard can speak wonderfully; an educated Mexican can do so, too. The lower classes' speech patterns are not nearly as studied or careful; the poor of all countries speak what one would call a rough or vulgar dialect. Additionally, all people, regardless of their social status, speak differently depending on the context; you don't speak to your friends in the same way you do to your boss.

I generally prefer the Peninsular variant (especially north of regions without distinción) because it's the one I speak, but that doesn't mean that all other forms of Spanish are absolutely degenerate. Yes, they sound odd to my ear, but I like some.

Watch Telediario, mate. I dare you to tell me the presenters' Spanish is vulgar. The thing that you're referring to is the fact that Spanish television is relatively uncensored, so we're free to say things that you couldn't say in your countries; Mexicans use vulgar language, too, but they mute in your telenovelas.

How will Trump convince them to pay?

Also what makes you think Mexico won't just start selling their oil in other currency to spite you?

What if they nullify the treaty of tlatelolco?

That's your catch 22, what little wealth it brought will quickly dry up leaving even fewer scraps to fight over while America starts to enforce and take it's immigration and visa laws as seriously as you take yours. Those elite will simply find the domestic way to keep that slice of the pie. The cartels that now run your country will be getting even more desperate and violent as states here remove them from the market place with pseudo-legal competition (until Federally legalized) and far superior product which inevitably bleeds over surrounding state lines and saturates the still existenting black markets there till that state legalizes. The Feds are no hope either, the last thing they want is to start getting sued on state rights with more and more states on board. All the while the ever weak peso continues to tumble and you can't even wrest control of your government from the corrupt and the cartel puppets.

We are in a position to recover from the fucking over NAFTA gave our middle class as it further enriched our elite as well. You mi amigo, are looking at some serious shit to work out to even stabilize that shithole country even if NAFTA was untouched. Should civil war break out there, your country stands a good chance of coming out carved up again as I promise you the northern states will solicit US support and promise statehood/protectorate status and/or land to give us access to the Gulf of California that was forgotten in the Gadsen Purchase. Texas wouldn't mind a little expansion also or a New Texas neighbor.

The future looks most bleak for Mexico.

>>>/hispachan/

Just wait and watch brownie

THIS

Hispachan really should be the place to have this discussion. Preferably in >>>/fun/

Ok.

I'll also wait for Hillary to be incarcerated.

Utilizarán lenguaje soez, sí. Esto no quiere decir, sin embargo, que tengo un castellano pésimo; las «malas palabras» son parte del idioma, y lo que se considera una palabra vulgar varía por país, aunque hay, por supuesto, palabras que son universalmente vulgares.

Resulta difícil, debo confesar, tratar seriamente este de las vulgaridades cuando la persona en cuestión no sabe escribir la palabra.

Se refiere a que bulgar no existe.
Es vulgar.

How it should be m8 Malas palabras have no place in public society unless youre drinking Kawasakis bien frios.

Sorry m8 don't get to use spanish very much.

I sure hope we can nuke mexico! Also the killary situation isnt over? Stay smug and enjoy your quesadillas