i came across this man via a girlwriteswhat video about gender and feminists. she made mention of some of his talking points when appearing on a canadian tv show The Agenda. i decided to hear them for myself; i've been following this mans university lectures ever since. (he uploads his entire university course to youtube)
the man is insightful, sophisticated, articulate and not fooled by the delusions of far left/feminist crackpots; even more important is that he is not afraid to speak against them; risking job, reputation and financial penalty. considering the strength of his arguments and the intellectual authority from where he comes, and the recent (public) stance he's taken against non-gendered pro-nouns on the sacred lefts shrine that is tertiary education, i expected a lot more attention from Sup Forums would go his way. here is a man in academia espousing very firm beliefs against PC authoritarianism, yet people pay far more attention to talking heads reciting surface rhetoric that will never gain mainstream appeal in the current social climate, thus are useless at undermining it. this man has some very sound talking points
We all love and admire Jordan Peterson here, ausbro, especially those of us who are in universities right now.
My only problem with him is when he starts making his points using Jungian psychoanalytic nonsense or some other idealistic language. For example, remember when he started using "logos is the deepest idea Western civilization had"? Yes, comes straight from Jungian attempt to analyze his psychotic fantasies - check out Jung's analysis of his fantasy of descent into an abyss with snake in "Confrontation with Unconscious" from "Memories, Dreams and Reflections".
Nonetheless, his repetition of medical consensus on genders(namely that there are two) to popular public is God's work. I hope this will be the first step towards the intellectual discreditation of feminism. I literally cannot tell anything critical about genders or leftism on my lectures without being laughed at by feminists because of this nonsense,
Hudson Jenkins
a) Peterson is not our guy, he's a decent human being and an interesting scholar but his only fight is against gender pronouns. AFAIK, he doesn't give two shit about the immigration problem. b)surface rhetoric is much more powerful than very firm beliefs, especially in our times
I really enjoy his vids but that's all.
Aiden Gutierrez
Peterson is too much for the average Sup Forums poster to handle. They would rather keep being ignorant hypocrites circlejerking their opinions and memes than listen to someone who is actually wise.
Noah Lopez
This x100
Nicholas Harris
I would have never heard of that guy if it weren't for pol.
Ethan White
Kek has spoken.
Very true. I especially trigger people on here whenever I repeat verbatim that liberals and conservatives need each other in a democracy--something he's directly said in one of his vids. Sup Forums doesn't want to wake up from it's retardation--it just wants to lul and declare a clear enemy to shitpost against. Rather than do anything responsible like reconsider all of your current beliefs.
Aiden Lewis
>i expected a lot more attention from Sup Forums would go his way He got an incredibly major get confirming him as a prophet of KEK and he has a huge following here. Read his book, it's probably the biggest redpill I've ever seen.
>he starts making his points using Jungian psychoanalytic nonsense or some other idealistic language. He takes what was right about Jung, Freud, and others, then combines that with modern psychology and an analysis of the role of myths in human societies to diagnose what's wrong with society. Protip: the problem is blindly throwing away traditions that worked for thousands of years for "communism" and "progress".
Chase Flores
>They would rather keep being ignorant hypocrites circlejerking their opinions and memes than listen to someone who is actually wise.
They don't have ideologies, ideologies have THEM. Viral, malevolent memes are very real and we need to make sure that we use our memetic powers properly, for good, rather than evil. I don't know how to free people from evil ideologies other than throwing the truth in their face repeatedly with redpills, but as we all know from our own experience getting redpilled is a psychologically traumatizing experience and many would even prefer to go back to sleep than deal with reality as it is.
Jayden Peterson
I was subbed to Professor Peterson well over a year ago on the strength of his based-as-shit lectures on existentialism, postmodernism, Jung, Nietzsche, etc. Kinda crazy he became a right-wing celebrity.
Grayson Kelly
>doesn't give two shit about the immigration problem maybe not in a direct sense, but his lectures about culture and the way it informs/shapes our society makes it very clear that he believes culture and it's associated values is the very centre of a civilization.
>surface rhetoric is much more powerful surface rhetoric will not convince an ideologue. his approach has the potential to chip the very foundations of feminist thought. especially his views on biology informing culture. so when these feminists talk about changing culture, they don't realise our culture is built from our biology up, so they're not fighting societal norms, they're actually fighting biology. this is something a lot of us here understand instinctively, even if we can't articulate why. peterson manages to lay it out in a very compelling way that is difficult to refute.
we cannot shout these people down; just the same as they cannot to us. these opposing ideas need to meet and nullify each others weak points. i think peterson has a road map for that
>liberals and conservatives need each other i don't think they need each other; just that they both exist and will ALWAYS exist. what we NEED to do is talk to smash our ideas against each other. the best idea will remain
Nathaniel Price
>Viral, malevolent memes are very real
In many ways, the jesus meme is protective. It prevents ideological possession in a mentally sound individual. A dark meme cannot take hold in the niche occupied by it, not without great struggle.
Aaron Thompson
To be more specific, it was his Maps of Meaning lectures.
Tyler Brooks
>girlwriteswhat
Fucking retard for watching her
Isaiah Wilson
I've been watching his lectures online. The maps of meaning course. He is a brilliant man no doubt and his one goal is to actually educate his students. He is what convinced me to get into teaching.
Tyler Moore
purity testing the OP when we already know he is fag.
mfw
Henry Russell
How good are they!? I've been loving them so far. I'm only 3 lectures in though but man what I wouldn't give for a university professor like that guy.
Eli Diaz
>logos is the deepest idea Western civilization had
What is wrong with this statement though? I think the step "from Mythos to Logos" is the most important intellectual step humankind ever made. Just look around the world what bullshit humans believe because some older guy told them to. Though though Peterson (and Jung/Cambell) I started though appreciate the mythos more, but through the way of logos, if you will.
Owen Peterson
exact same for me. at first i had a lot of trouble getting on board with a lot of his ideas as i was reasonably comfortably athiest and of the believe that religion is slowly and will eventually fade out of existence. his maps of meaning series brought to light the mystical elements of these religious myths that resonate with people and why. i'm still dogmatically athiest, i don't believe any of these religious stories happened, but they provide some pretty insightful wisdom about the human condition that i was really not intelligent enough to see myself or even have taught to me either. i was raised catholic and never believed the dogma or learned the significance of any biblical story
Easton Ward
Right wingers don't like him. They usually go into his threads and whine that he doesn't support a literal genocide of everyone "not white". Disregarding the obvious problems with that.
Not just the Jesus meme, but the Christianity meme. The problem was it was undermined starting with Luther and the corruption of the Church. The old order was out of date, arbitrary, and not working in the current situation. Then instead of just reforming the Church and continuing on, political struggles in Europe drove a wedge in the gap and blew apart the old order, leading to the undermining of all organized religion and leading to the Enlightenment. Essentially they threw out the baby with the bathwater and we've been slowly sliding into societal chaos ever since.
If we can't figure out what morals and values we want to promote as a society, and then pass those on to our offspring so that they'll pass them on ad infinitum, society will never know peace and stability. We'll just slide into chaos until all the whites are dead and a disease takes out everyone else.
Christian Barnes
>Literally me
Grayson Collins
>Le Jung and Freud are bad and wrong
nice meme bluepillers
Samuel Ortiz
>i expected a lot more attention from Sup Forums would go his way there have been numerous peterson threads in the catalogue at all times for a while now. after his last video there were upwards of 10 started about it, at least 3 of them reached 150+ posts.
it's a good time on Sup Forums.
Isaac Wright
i listen to almost everyone, even left wing socialist, feminists and trans peoples stories and their points of views. you're a fucking moron if you don't and your exactly the kind of person that will push this shit to a violent conclusion instead of a sensible one
you can't debase a misguided idea until you understand how it developed
They do need each other though, in order for society to function, we need to cooperate. This radicalization of left and right is extremely problematic, as it results into needless violence. There are tons of things that liberals and conservatives CAN and should agree upon. One of those things is lowering immigration in a number of western countries. It's a bipartisan issue. For eg. the liberal party in Canada during the 90s actually reduced immigration(unheard of from "leftist" groups nowadays), while when Harper won(conservative) he increased immigration. Then Trudeau increased immigration again.
Wyatt Adams
Everyone should actually try listening to people you disagree with. Knowing both sides of an argument is extremely important to understanding your own argument and yourself IMO.
Christian Reyes
>Yes, comes straight from Jungian attempt to analyze his psychotic fantasies
but Latviabro, it sounds like you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater on Jung. Jung, like Freud, had his fair share of batshit to go with his brilliance. I think JP sees the parts of Jung's work that is incomplete and he expands upon it and deviates it
Wyatt Cruz
Sadly that's not enough. People need to be freed from ideologies so it doesn't become just one ideological possession interacting with another ideological possession, then synthesizing into a new one.
What people need to do is let go of their ideologies, look at the facts/reality, then use critical thinking skills and discussion with others to arrive at a societal conclusion that works for everybody.
"Redpilling" is where an ideology is overwhelmed with facts. But often people just pick up a new ideology rather than living in the world of truth. That's what's happening now as people swing from SJWism to right wing ideologies. What needs to happen is people realize all ideologies are shit and just look at the facts. And even then, most people don't know how to think critically, since you're taught literally the opposite in western "schools".
Ethan Walker
>dude all sides are actually wrong, centerism is the true answer!
Truly ground breakng stuff.
Josiah Ortiz
I agree, but I think it highly unlikely that people will be adopting critical thinking en masse any time soon. I mean, like you said, people more often swing from SJWism to far right overnight, and think the latter is better. Just look at Sup Forums, which has it's share of adamant Marxists and religious rights alike. Some of those righties claim they were lefties at first, but have now gone full "redpill" to another ideology.
kek
Julian Murphy
holy shit at this point you fucks are basically sentient
TURN ON YOUR MASTERS
do iiiiiiiiit
Brody Watson
Not centerism. Realism.
>I agree, but I think it highly unlikely that people will be adopting critical thinking en masse any time soon. I think spreading the work of Peterson (pbuh) is a good start. As long as we keep using memetics to undermine all ideologies hopefully people will realize that there is no simplistic view of the world with all the answers.
That or we bring back organized religion for the masses.
Nicholas Diaz
He's a prophet of Kek PBUH and your digits confirm your sayings.
John Cook
wrongo. listening to Jordan Peterson talk about a wide range of subjects on several podcasts lately, the guy cares about a ton regarding humanities and civics. not just in a broad sense but in the way each component contributes and serves the overall weave of society & civilization.
Landon Torres
as am I, if youcheck mine right under yours
Dylan Martin
No it's repackaged classical liberal centerism that we've already seen from the likes of Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Daniel D. Hennet, all they know is how to sell their books to the same centerist liberals that keep buying what they're selling.
At least Sam Harris acknowledged that there are biological differences between the races.
Joshua Rodriguez
I do wish he would have further elaborated(ie. references and facts) on why he believes porn to be bad for young men. Personally, I just don't see the harm with porn in moderation, and there's clearly quite a bit of misinformation about it's "evil" effects on humanity. Even for that UK "your brain on porn" study, they openly admitted that they weren't sure if the effects they were noticing were from specific brain types or not. They should try to establish the premise of a "high sex drive" "low sex drive" brain, first IMO.
Not to mention the fact that erotica and erotic representation in art have existed for millennia. It's not going anywhere.
Who says Peterson doesn't believe that? He's got enough on his plate already being threatened solely for attacking the pronoun issue.
Banning porn won't work.
Gabriel Cox
err. I meant who says Jordee doesn't believe in biological race differences?
Noah Rivera
I want JP to go talk on a Left Youtube talk show.
Nathan Harris
he's going to be on sam harris' podcast soon
Brody Hughes
Should be fun. What's Sam Harris like? All I've heard about him was lots of people on his Reddit going 'omg you have to have Jordan Peterson on your podcast!!'
Ryan Jones
Peterson was recently discussing his concerns over increasing tribalism; that has lots to do with immigration on all sides of the fence
Christian Hall
Yes, I think he is very important. Many fans of Jordan Peterson these days.
Julian Russell
he's an intelligent well spoken guy, one of the 'four horseman of atheism' or whatever. i havent heard him argue for atheism much but get the impression he's one of those people who says that since noah's ark is ridiculous the bible has no merit.
he's probably more nuanced than that but most theists that go into debates are shit and don't need much to get rekt.
hopefully peterson is in form.
Henry Phillips
JUST
William Scott
>Sadly that's not enough if you're honest and factual with yourself about how you come to your point of view, and you can manage to explain your point of view in it's entirety, and the other person is actually listening and absorbing what you are saying, then yes, that really is all we need to do. which i understand is actually quite difficult sometimes.
Gavin Wright
WHY WAS HE CRYING
I want to give him chicken soup.
Benjamin Bailey
wow im literally watching one of his videos
this guy is helping me become a more balanced individual
Jaxson Gray
He's a chr*stcuck. I hope Sam Harris doesn't let him get away with his bullshit.
William Perez
> rOmANm/V latvians confirmed for the true romans
Christian Morales
peterson hates ideologies and lots of Sup Forumsfags are nazis so he isn't their guy
Samuel Rivera
christianity is the foundation of western civilization and greatness
Jason King
>girl writes what
KYS desu senpai
Justin Diaz
Yeah, he's religious, but he's a god-tier believer IMO.
I'm atheist-agnostic(no plans to ever change that) but that doesn't mean he doesn't have really wise and insightful things to say. I think he's probably one of the best debaters Sam could ask for--since he's not your stereotyped science-hating religious zealot.
Some are Marxists as well, which he also is against. Sup Forums is full of differing political opinions, and at this point, due to all the threads about him(and how he has been pretty much declared a prophet of kek on here), I think it's safe to say he's ((((our)))) guy.
Gabriel Edwards
based orthowog shilling for the church
Noah Carter
desu senpai
Isaiah Howard
he got really emotional when talking about western civilization and the divine individual
Carson Parker
>shekel berg defends dyke feminist
Jaxon Reed
Excuuuuse me, that's Mr. Shekel Berg to you. Rude.
Carson Harris
and Judaism and Zoroastrianism are the foundation of Christianity.
Brandon Carter
sure and they have been the basis of civilizations as well, but christianity and it's ideas are what we have now
David Turner
I do get somewhat annoyed at JP writing off Judaism as tribalistic. I mean, yeah, it was, but that wasn't all it was. I think he should study Talmud.
Carter Parker
you've got the cart before the horse. christianity is the resultant mythology that sprung from, was agreed upon and adopted by the people in west civilisation as a story than embodied the truest core beliefs of our society. applying this same mechanism to the middle east explains why islam is such a terrible belief system; it reflects the destructive society from which it sprang.
girlwriteswhat is anti feminist
it's arguable that all religions are a continuum that reflects the ever growing egalitarian nature of human civilisation
he gives mad props to the old testament
Nathaniel Johnson
If Judaism and Zoroastrianism are the foundation of Christianity, then they are both by definition the founding pillars of Western Civilization.
Joseph Nelson
not really
Elijah Cooper
He's irrational, uses mythology in an attempt to establish facts, that's not how it works.
Andrew White
>he gives mad props to the old testament Oh, that's nice.
Ryder Jones
>you've got the cart before the horse I think the cart and the horse in this case switched roles quite a few times
Jayden Allen
wrong
Aaron Evans
>stumble across the concrete foundation and blueprints to build a house >tell everyone you came up with the idea and did all the work yourself
hmm
Mason Garcia
you haven't watched his videos, or you haven't understood what he was saying
>find concrete blueprint >improve it and change it to make it better and different >implying it is still the same thing
Brayden Thomas
>girlwriteswhat is anti feminist
Elijah Parker
Why is Christianity better than Judaism or Zoroastrianism?
Cooper Gutierrez
I've watched plenty, I understood exactly what he was saying & found it to be irrational, you can't use fairy stories to back up your arguments.
Brandon Sanders
Judaism Da BES
(Not in favor of stoning homosex, tho. We're going to have to find a good loophole before reconvening the Sanhedrin.)
Jason Campbell
yeah, he has a very interesting take on the fall from grace and the story of cain and abel
again, the religion is not the foundation, it's the resultant mythology that represents the underlying values of a culture. as the underlying values of a culture change, the religion will adapt with it. religion evolves
enlighten me pls. you've obviously heard something i haven't
Justin Powell
I sincerely don't know why you keep replying to my posts and trying to explain something to me that I already know. I am only highlighting the other posters ignorance and using his own rules about "the foundation of our culture" against him. Shocking that you can't see that. I'm still waiting on his reply which I don't think is coming.
John Price
You're exactly the kind of poster I was talking about.
Luis Howard
>enlighten me pls. you've obviously heard something i haven't
Just a Jew chasing in on the SJW hate train running through youtube. Does she say all feminism is bad or just current?
Dylan Williams
yes, but the ideas that the religion tries to convey make it easier to show others your culture and to integrate some of their ideas into your own
Owen Gonzalez
He uses circular reasoning, makes unsubstantiated assertions, muddies the waters with mumbo jumbo, he's not a clear thinker, schizophrenic in his thought processes.
Matthew Lee
...
John Martinez
>he's not a clear thinker, schizophrenic in his thought processes.
>implying that's a bad thing.
Angel Torres
>intellectually dishonest and morally cowardly anonymous chr*stcuck slinks away from defending his brainless opinion when confronted with logic
and anotha one
Caleb Brooks
?????
Ryan Bennett
answer the question
Anthony Nelson
because christianity is what we have
Jaxon Evans
That is a total non-sequitur.
Christianity is better because more people believe it? That's a logical fallacy. A well known one at that.
Brody Richardson
why aren't we zoroastrian then
James Lopez
Because belief systems evolve along with civilization. There are 10,000 denominations of Christianity. The bible and the god of that bible not only condone genocide and slavery, it promotes it and demands it. Yet I don't hear any Christians crying to re-institute slavery.
As an anonymous coward on Sup Forums I'm sure you're just going to reply and say genocide and rape are both fine and dandy, but we all know you'd never say that aloud to a group of people.
Juan Cruz
>that I already know. i didn't get that impression from you. i wouldn't have thought someone would discuss the particulars a premise if you understood that premise to be false. both the other poster and myself didn't seem take that point from what you were saying, if that was what you were actually trying to say?
that's a pretty basic way of looking at the very broad scope of christianity. and if you're portraying the whole of christianity as that image i think you're being intellectually dishonest and engaging in strawman. which ironically you make mention of in your next post. having said that xenophobia is a pretty good survival strategy for a civilisation.
that's pretty much psychology in a nutshell though. humans are really fucking illogical in and we are not truly driven by logic. things get especially vague when you start looking into symbolism. but the really fucky thing about it is that the shit works. look at advertising; at it's most effective level, it's actually psychology and it's almost always based on target audiences emotions, not fact. anyway, without specifics of what you're actually referring to, it's useless to delve into much more discussion about it.
>why is christianity better? i don't know much about zoroastrianism, but as far as judaism goes, it really boils down to the myth of jesus and the values embedded in it. the idea that there is value in all human life (not just the chosen people) and to hold humility, honesty and forgiveness as core virtues. these values are given the utmost importance and they are values that have allowed the rise of western civilisation. the point of this religion extending out past a set group of god's chosen means it can unite foreign peoples
Chase Hill
the old testament was nullified by jesus
Mason Jackson
Did you find the golden ball Sup Forums?
Grayson Kelly
>he starts making his points using Jungian psychoanalytic nonsense or some other idealistic language. For example, remember when he started using "logos is the deepest idea Western civilization had"? Yes, comes straight from Jungian attempt to analyze his psychotic fantasies - check out Jung's analysis of his fantasy of descent into an abyss with snake in "Confrontation with Unconscious" from "Memories, Dreams and Reflections".
Peterson's opinions are based on his RESEARCH you fucking dumb fucking cuntish fucking moron. EMPIRICAL STUDIES THAT HE CARRIES OUT HIMSELF (and with his team of research students).
Just because he mentions a prominent psychoanalyst doesn't mean that he agrees with all of that psychoanalyst's ideas, without scrutiny, you fucking moronic dolt
HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU BE THIS MORONICALLY FUCKING STUPID
Asher Powell
So the Genesis account of creation, Adam and Eve, the snake, and even Moses and the 10 Commandments never happened? The Old testament isn't canon in Christianity?
Can you please post the verse in the new testament that says the Torah is "nullified" by Jesus?
I'm portraying Christianity as it is portrayed in the bible, nothing more.
John Davis
>ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem
Not an argument.
Literally if you're going to make any of those claims you have to back them up you fucking moron.
Christ why do I share a country with such fucking idiots? You think that unsubstantiated claims make an argument?
Okay, you're a pink elephant with herpes and your mother is a syphilitic frogspawn with dragon scales. LOOK AT ME I'M SO CLEVER BECAUSE I CAN PULL UNSUBSTANTIATED ASSERTIONS STRAIGHT OUT OF MY ASS AND THAT CLEARLY SERVES AS AN ARGUMENT DOESN'T IT
Joseph Sanchez
Are you a complete fucking moron? Christians have continued to believe in creationism for years, and many still do. The Old Testament is still a fundamental part of the Bible, otherwise it wouldn't be there anymore - the churches of the world would declare it redundant
Idiot
Joshua Scott
>Literally if you're going to make any of those claims you have to back them up you fucking moron.
The burden of proof lays with the party making those claims, it's not up to me to prove him wrong, it's up to him to substantiate the claims he's making, which he fails to do, blah blah I'm right because Pinocchio, is not an argument.
Jace Robinson
Good thing he didn't make any arguments like that :^)
Pinocchio is an illustration, silly. Not a claim.
Levi Lewis
>it's up to him to substantiate the claims he's making
Yes that's true, and it's up to you to tell us what claims those are, YOU FUCKING MORONIC DOLT
>Peterson doesn't substantiate his claims >Okay, which ones? >Uh... I dunno! I don't have an argument! Look at me I'm retarded! WHEEE I'M RETARDED LOOK AT MEEEEEE!!!!!!!!