>automation, not foreign nations, will be our greatest economic challenge and will require a new social compact
prove him wrong Sup Forums.
Trump hasn't even addressed this problem and still thinks we can just bring back manufacturing jobs like it's the 1950's and everything will be fine. Trump's thinking is dated. He doesn't understand how technology will shift the economic paradigm.
bump
Automation is good for the economy, and it actually increases jobs, not decreases them. (the problem, however, is that we lose low skill labor, and the demand for specialized high skill labor goes up)
>He doesn't understand how technology will shift the economic paradigm.
You don't know what you are talking about, American manufacturers are using more high tech machines, Vietnamese and Chinese people are destroying their hands and using child labor, like we did in the 30s
>so much for that 1950s jab
Bring jobs back to the US is speeding up the new technological economic paradigm
>high wages
>benefits
>training
>regulations
>taxes
>building codes
All of these and more make replacing low skilled labor with high tech machines more viable, as well as making a more high skilled populace
>automation takes jobs meme
no it just makes people more productive
>(the problem, however, is that we lose low skill labor, and the demand for specialized high skill labor goes up)
And Trumps has no plan for this.
>no it just makes people more productive
capital makes labor more productive until capital becomes labor. the machines won't need you in the future.
>says this
>doesn't do anything to help
WELL DONE
>capital makes labor more productive until capital becomes labor
nice marxist nonsense that never came true
there is unlimited demand for labor at the right price
>And Trumps has no plan for this.
Expanding the military, lots of young people manning up, getting in shape, and getting the G.I. bill to pay for college
Higher job availability as well as better jobs to help pay for college
College is already socialized anyway if you are a certain income level
>there is unlimited demand for labor at the right price
smart machines will do it cheaper (pennies on the dollar for electricity) and more efficiently than humans ever will.
Most of our politicians are relying on our lack of critical thinking. Smarten up America.
>the machines won't need you in the future.\
What are you, fucking retarded? Do you expect the machines to fuel and repair and design themselves?
life isn't a terminator movie you fucking communist
>it cheaper
this is nothing more than a fantasy
not everything can easily be automated
Who is going to build and maintain the machines retard
Who is going to build and maintain the machines that makes the parts to that machine
Who is going to make and refine the oil for the machines
The list goes on retard
That doesn't excuse decades of suffering in the meantime.
>automation is going to be a big issue
>which is why we need to import even more unskilled brown people into the US
the ratio of workers needed to design and maintain machines is not a 1:1 relationship.
take a look at how google operates. they have a fixed capital cost of building a 68,000 sq/ft data center and need only a few technicians to troubleshoot hundreds of housed serves.
same thing with how amazon operates their warehouses.
>a.i. will never surpass (except they already have in many respects) human abilities because reasons
>because robots exist or will soon exist, all manufacturing must be done in Chine
which is fucking meaningless because those are massive corporations that operate huge amounts of data centers and warehouses
please explain this picture I've been staring at it for 10 minutes
>just go get blown up and maybe we'll revive the G.I. Bill
great plan.
If we just kill all niggers and spics it will free up jobs for whitey and we can natsoc our way to automation utopia
>it doesn't matter because they're major corporations that happen to function like the Standard Oil of the 21st century and are major contributors to the GDP
you're so silly.
Trump is against the wars and said he wants military we don't need to use
If your argument is that only a small number of people are needed to maintain a large group of robots, that becomes an irrelevant point when you consider that these companies would operated potentially immeasurable amounts of robots therefore requiring large amounts of people in your hypothetical world where automation is feasible.
If liberals are so convinced automation is the way of the future why are they so dead set on importing millions of cheap foreign unskilled labor
What would Clinton have done? Given free college tuition so we have more psychologists and Liberal Artists?
Did she ever talk about STEM?
>automation
>economic challenge
yeah for burger flippers anyway. the robots that can sweep aisles are a way off, they'll just have to get a new job.
>companies would operated potentially immeasurable amounts of robots therefore requiring large amounts of people
This assumes a 1:1 ratio which I've already demonstrated is false. For every 1 machine you don't need 1 unit of labor to maintain it.
Which isn't what I'm saying you fucking idiot. There would be so many machines being operated that there will plenty of jobs provided regardless of how unequal the ratio is.
He's thinking the long term game
Once automation hits full throttle, wouldn't you prefer that the infrastructure is already in place, inside the country, and well maintained?
>wanting to get cucked for when automation hits mexico and you have to buy shit from them even though you could do the same at home
1000 machines are operating. You only need 100 units of labor to maintain them. In other words a labor force of 10%. You have a population of 1000. Multiply this by say 1 million.
See the problem?
The machines have to be built
So a big waste of money to fund a new class of subservient gibmedats that want free college
Yes, in manufacturing plants that are automated.
Ok retard but there's going to be a whole lot more than only 1 million machines in your made up world. If we have 330 million people working now, and 1000 machines are equivalent to 100 people, then that means there will be three billion robots required to fill all that labour, which would require an astronomical amount of human oversight.
communists are so god damn retarded
Trump is basically a TV clown.
That why you had to elected a socialist (Sanders), but the dnc screw everything by rigging the dnc. With Trump you are screw for 4 years, maybe he will even remove you civil liberty like the nazi did. Anyway the russia have
information Trump to screw Trump, they will be leak for sure in the next Months.
We aren't even close to that level of automation yet
>which would require an astronomical amount of human oversight.
They're already accounted for in my example, that would be 100 million of the 1 billion, again 10%. They're the full-time technicians.
It works very much like this with google and other smart tech companies today. For all the products and services they provide they only need a small labor force.
What's your point? Any rational person who's been paying attention knows that people must advance alongside technology or you get left behind. You say Trump has no plan for this, but the immigration policies of the current administration aren't exactly helping the people of the US either.
Why would we build robots when there's 7 billion people willing to work for less than the robot costs?
I don't know how else to explain this to you. 10% of 3 billion is literally more than enough jobs for every white American.
Shouldn't matter. Most western nations were getting on to population decline, which would go nicely with automation. All they needed to do was to stop importing goat fuckers.
>we need immigrants cause we lack workers
>we are in trouble because labor is going to be replaced by machines
those bastards lied
You seem to be leaving out the part where the overwhelming majority of people aren't working, 90%. Imagine that, a labor force participation rate of 10%. For reference, our present rate is just over 60%.
Mate it doesn't work that way. A single SQL database can be managed by one man and do the recording of a thousand bookkeepers. It's depends on what machine we're talking about but machines always give more output than humans at the same cost.
The only way to fight automation is through education!!! Americans need to be equipped with the skills in this changing work environment of the future!
You're using circular reasoning. You got the three billion machines by multiplying the US population by ten. There isn't necessarily enough machines or technicians to operate them.
Any more questions?
Millenials don't want to work, therefore there are two options:
>Enslave them and force them to work
>Automate as much as possible, there are plenty of smart people to run the machines
Pick one.
fear mongering
automation wont end every job, it will create new jobs and increase productivity of existing ones. companies will ALWAYS need workers to set up things, get it through your skull
fuck off
At the same fucking time, Barack Hussein has poured more funds into DARPA terminator tier murderbots than any president before him...
I'm starting to think that bag is holding a massive growth growing out of that poor man's back. Reeeeeeeeeee
Massive Automation + Massive and increasing number of low-IQ brown people only capable of low-skill labor = Brown people losing ability to find employment and possibly race war
>nobody talking about muh automation has the slightest clue what they are talking about
alright you fucking memers, i'm a automation engineer and have been in dozens of factories and seen many automation jobs
>automation =/= magic skynet AI does literally everything
Automation usually just targets the stupidest and most pointless jobs first, and a lot of times allows the worker to do more, faster, and do less physical work himself
we did a huge job creating a system of pulleys and carts to move inventory around a brick plant, no one was fired, but the operator gets to sit at a central control panel and the guys who manually moved the cars before can stay on the dehacking line constantly and the whole plant moves faster
Automation is expensive as shit, especially if you want to replace a complex job, most of the time cheap jew investors won't want to fork over the cash and will use humans as much as possible. To replace a random sorting job with a robot arm can cost 500000-1 million dollars
>tl;dr stop listing to lawyers and jewish communists about engineering topics
>everything will be run by robots
>don't blame the millions of immigrants for our shit future
Well immigrants are ALWAYS bad for wages. Supply and demand laws and all.
Obama's approach is almost nihilistic.
>To replace a random sorting job with a robot arm can cost 500000-1 million dollars
Depends on the arm and application. I've seen arms for around 80,000 but they're small and not terribly fast.
They'll need SKILLED people. Not factory workers with no education.
>Automation is expensive as shit
right now but just like personal computers or any new technology for that matter, the price declines over time.
it's true the cost to renovate old plants or build new ones are high, hence the unwillingness to modernize them. that's also why they build overseas because they don't have to build the cutting edge plants.
2 kill le whites
lol even programmers feel threatened as A.I can soon make programs.
>implying Trump wont colonize mars by 2022
>implying we wont use robotic advancement to further increase space jobs
>implying im not from the future and I already know what will happen.
that is what you think but reality is technology has always been suppressed, they can simply hire a ridiculous amount of scientists with your tax dollars to speed up progress. They do this with the military and this can be done with anything else.
thats like forcing a child to run before they can even walk. Koshered education.
This is the opposite of true, you know that, right? You're trolling me, right? The purpose of automation is to replace workers, thus reducing costs for businesses so they can increase their profits. It's not do just shuffle money around.
bingo its to kill jobs so companies can earn more, lol retards thinking companies are doing it for humanitarian reasons.
He won't, Mars is worthless to him. No golf course, no hotel.
Not yet you dumby. He's gonna make the first golf course and space hotel.
am programmer. am not threatened. automation is still in its infancy and will only consume low-wage, high labor verticals (trucking, manufacturing) and pattern-matching verticals (law, disease diagnosis), but will not uproot humans in engineering fields for another decade or two. and then research will be even further isolated, only being overrun close to an intelligence singularity event. after then, human labor as a whole becomes relatively and inherently valueless
FANUC, in Japan. A warehouse of industrial robots that builds industrial robots. It operates 30 days at a time unattended, and employs only 19 quality control workers while producing billions in machinery.
America is way behind and we're electing retards to bring us back in time to " good old days"
Because people are obsolete against robots. We operate on capitalism here. Unless you're delusional about what that means, you'd understand that this system does not care about your well being. Companies want money. Your success in life is the afterthought.
Wait, are you telling me automation didn't create tons of new jobs? Funny that, huh? The era of using machines to augment production is over. The era of replacing human workers altogether is there.
It's simple, we embrace fascism.
Make robots illegal
Problem solved
I know because that's exactly what our firm is doing. We extrude aluminum and make parts for window frames and for every 4 employees that retire (experienced, been here for a long time, not the kind of turnover that is involved in vetting) we hire 3 on average because a lot of what this involves is manipulation of objects from one line to another. The most labor intensive operation we have is stripping, cleaning, and reassembling the machines between shifts but that's done by part-time workers.
This is true up to the point where a robot can do everything. Plus unskilled Labor is more/less a requirement for everybody to get that first job so people will hire you.
even if you could "outlaw progress" like you suggest, you can't do it in a political environment completely dominated by corporate interests and drenched in money. companies will lobby for what helps them, which is to build robots and hire fewer humans
> am programmer
>AI won't reach my level for 20 years
> plans to live more than 20 years
> am not worried
Short sighted much?
a decade isn't a long time and you have no idea what you're talking about, the (((government))) is funding this therefore you have no idea how fast the technology can grow.
you can however boycott shit that support it ;)
'You're going to find that a lot of middle-class, white collar jobs are going to be more susceptible to automation than physical labor, because unskilled labor is going to be so cheap. Take, for example, accountants or document review lawyers. There are aspects to those jobs a machine can ''learn'' by just doing the job over and over and over. Software seems to be advancing much faster than hardware in this respect. Dexterity is something robots don't do well right now. You won't see a robot walking grandma to the kitchen, doing work that requires a lot of spatial awareness, or involves delicate movement (think picking grapes).
Take something like Quill, it's a program that writes articles and reports that entry-level analysts would do at all sizes of firms. Those entry-level positions are the bottom rung of the career ladder. And while we're not talking about a job apocalypse overnight, even if you knock out 10% of the jobs in fast food, manufacturing, etc. that's a fucking HUGE number
>This is true up to the point where a robot can do everything.
of course robots can't do everything. technological displacement isn't limited to what robots can do. machines aren't just displacing manual labor, they're replacing human labor at large.
today, factories are being filled with robots. tomorrow, roads will be filled with self driving cars. next week, lawyers, doctor, and engineers will all either be assisted by artificial intelligence, or replaced by it. no job is safe from technological displacement and it's a problem we very much need to address
You don't want to wash your techno-lords shoes for pennies and perhaps scraps of food while they laugh back to their secure homes and talk about how great techno-feudalism is for the economy? Come on now, you're not a good capitalist.
Crazy huh? It's almost as if the purpose of the entirety of technology since the dawn of man has been to reduce the need for people to perform a task.
Yet somehow we have a board full of nigger brained fucks who think more machines= more jobs. They should probably ask the local blacksmith about this subject sometime.
Oh wait.....
it's not that I'm short-sighted, it's that there's realistically only to outcomes at the point.
1) society and/or the economy completely crashes in the wake of tens/hundreds of millions of low-skill workers becoming unemployable and starve or riot
2) society adapts to automation and accepts it. by the time my job is automated, we're either already in a new paradigm of social structure or moving rapidly towards it
by the time its a problem for me, its either a problem for everyone or a problem for no one
the fuck is a social compact?
Also, I'm sure everyone is gonna support trillilons of dollars in welfare when only 1% of black people are smart enough to hold a job in 2025
It's easy to think yourself above such concerns, that you're not going to be the one impacted by this change. That's the wrong approach. The smart approach is the realize the gravity of the situation and plan accordingly. In we're talking about the near future, say 10-20 years, I'd guess most jobs you'll find effected would be the types of jobs uneducated, unskilled, younger folks take as a resume builder. It's not just fast food or other shitty jobs, that's thinking too small. Take the City of Chicago. In Chicago Blockbuster used to employ 60,000 people in their stores. Today, RedBox can cover the whole city with about 25 employees. Granted, far fewer people are renting movies these days but that's a huge fucking drop. Wanna know why reshoring is a trend? Automation. Factories that once employed 2,000 Chinese to make textiles can now hire 140 Americans to act in roles that aren't automated, yet. Keep in mind, the American economy needs to make about ~140,000 jobs A MONTH to keep up with population growth.
Now, imagine when businesses stop shoehorning automation into their current structure and start building automation into the very foundation of their operations.
like how people boycott smartphones because of all the workers rights violated across the world during production? impactful non-consumption will only come when the middle-class it strangled out of existence, not from conscious choice of ideology
furthermore, to boycott all products or organizations that leverage automation would mean paying more for literally everything you consume. the prime driver of automation is lower costs so the non-automated alternative will always be inherently more expensive. eventually, there won't even be non-automated alternatives because the cost-to-entry in any industry will be insurmountable without massive capital to rival the hyper-productivity of automated competitors
>automation
Oh instead of robots and shit here are some economic migrants. NICE TRY OBAMA.
unlike smart phones this is a real threat.
pretty sure user was being ironic.
look up who are the main companies supporting A.I and Automation. its not many.
Is automation the final stage for complete government dependence and slavery?
Trump will first address the fact that Dylann roof did nothing wrong
Yes all main companies researching this technology leads back to government and Jews.
Not sure how this was a counter argument at all. You just explained exactly why people's should be worrying about it now, even if their specific job is not currently threatened. We won't have to reach " your level" before this is a catastrophic problem for our economy and society, so why you aren't concerned I don't understand.
Maybe it's that I have zero faith in humans to handle this in a smart way. We don't have the insight to address this ahead of time, we certainly won't when a bunch of us are starving, angry, and ready for revolt.
Beyond that, I'm betting AI will take your job long before robots finish taking over manual labor. Robots are limited by what humans need to do to care for them. Once AI is able to fully " think" it's progress will quickly overtake physical automation.
You do know automation is seeping into traditional white-collar work too right? Things like marketing, administration, accounting, and data entry - those people are going being replaced by programs on a computer.
Not even jobs that require a creative input - like webpage designers and architects are safe - there are people out there creating AI to do these more complex tasks.
Automation has been happening for 200 years
Obama is just mad jobs are changing so people don't have to live in cities to get jobs anymore.
The thing is that automation isn't free. In fact it is really expensive. Niche jobs where demand is not high or deeply complex tasks often are not worth the cost to switch over. Then there is the human touch factor. We have been breed to crave human interaction as a result certain jobs, like therapists benefit from humans. Then there are the physical problems. What happens if the power goes out? A machine can't work without electricity a human can. What about a massive solar storm? There goes the whole network, along with everyone else's systems. Chances are most automated systems are offline for months. Then there is the maintenance issue, someone has to go in periodically to fix problems with the system when things go wrong. The technicians are highly skilled labour so they are usually high paying jobs. Automation will change the way our economy runs sort of like what happened during the industrial revolution, but it not destroy the economy.
Just ban greed
Problem solved