The only people that advocate for socialism are people who don't have the marketable skills to make it in the free...

>The only people that advocate for socialism are people who don't have the marketable skills to make it in the free market. These people are usually too lazy/unambitious/incapable/all of the above to gain these skills and so want the value of their work to not be justified by impartial market conditions but mandated by a government body (monopoly).

Prove me wrong commiefags (looking at you too natsoc).

>leaf

This is true. Their king Bernie Sanders has been lazy his entire life. Same story with Marx. These are lazy bums always trying to find a way to obtain resources without putting in any effort. They are niggers, if you will.

Any artist (musician, painter, etc.) will advocate for socialism because there is more to life than "marketable skills"

as long as there is no regulation, let me earn my own pay.

the second you start telling me how to do my work, you should start paying me.

Exactly. There is more to life than there marketable skills. So why do they define themselves by there skills and refuse to do anything else?

"What do you mean get a job? I'm a writer"

This isn't even coming from anyone edgy, I literally read and write all the time, I've written a novel

Kangz

Most, if not all of the greatest artists in history have dedicated their lives to it & been lucky enough to live off of their work, so I guess even in a free market, socialism isn't necessary for the artist, but I can imagine it helps as the term "starving artist" is more of a reality than often recognized.

I'd also say it's less of a refusal to do anything else, but more of a wish to be dedicated to their gift or chosen skill. Possibly selfish, but everyone's political views should be looking to benefit them directly in some way... otherwise what's the point?

Cool. Then go out into the wilderness and try to survive off your non-marketable skill instead of putting the burden on everyone else.

Easy. I work in oil and gas. I do intense labor 12 hours a day. I stand on my feet with few breaks lifting, carrying and using heavy machinery to deliver the fuel you fuckfaces use to charge your phones and electronics to write stupid shit on the internet.

While I make "good money" compared to other professions, I actually do ll the fucking labor. You sitting in your fucking office chair typing in your fucking spreadsheet does jack shit, but because your spreadsheet wizardry indicated that you can move my job to another country or outsource it to an outside company, you get a fat bonus while I get a pink slip.

So fuck you. Labor should receive all of the reward and own all of the means of production.

Everyone benefits equally from Socialism though... there is no putting the burden on anyone else, that's the point.

Charles Ives is an interesting composer who was groundbreaking in various ways. He worked in insurance and invented the modern concept of estate planning. He didn't believe in using composing music as a means of living because it sacrificed the integrity of his work.

/thread

Nope. Doesn't work that way, kiddo. The only people who benefit are either the ones at the top or those who manage to game the system. Those who actually work hard would benefit more from a capitalist system.

There's a reason Jews advocate for capitalism in Israel and socialism everywhere else.

I'm laffin.

so glad I didn't descend from this

So why should I pay you 80k/year if a chink can do your job for 60k/year?

He's doing the same job as you are, it's not like that the job is magically going to become easier just because you move it over-seas.

Not going to refute you because your correct. I am fellow capitalist. Let em die and let natural selection take its course. Allow society to become more productive trough evolution.

I'm not saying that you have to live off of your art, or that people who do don't work & complain about how hard they have it until they get somewhere, obviously working until you can sustain is the smartest path. I'm only saying that from an artist's point of view, socialism is the best route, and everyone's political views should be set to benefit them in some way, thus leading an artist to socialism.

Capitalism is broken in many ways... is just one example.

"kiddo" because your opinion differs from my own. Capitalism is a system of greed, while Socialism is a system of equality.

Then start your own business and equally divvy up the shares to your employees instead of forcing your bullshit views on everyone else because you have no aspirations.

This is untrue. Most socialists are upperclass people who had parents pay for them to become indoctrinated in college. It's usually the working class people who are against leftist policies, because they realize that these policies will actually hurt them economically.

>grow up in a mining town
>train in mining as my marketable skill
>suddenly all mining jobs are outsourced to a country in the third world because they will work for peanuts
>local economy crashes
>local house prices hit a new low
>no new jobs while old jobs are leaving
>have some smug normie in LA tell me I just need to learn a marketable skill to fix my life
I say this as someone that studies finance. Nationalist capitalism with a focus on protectionism is the future.

so because digging a ditch is more physically demanding than working in a lab to cure cancer you think the ditch digger is more valuable.

>leaf

You mean like workers?

>so because digging a ditch is more physically demanding than working in a lab to cure cancer you think the ditch digger is more valuable.
HA.HA

>why do people who want to be good at something dedicate their whole lives to it
that's a real stumper you cunt

>while Socialism is a system of equality.
Bullshit. Aside from your precious feelings, there's no way to justify you equally owning the product of my labor simply because you exist. I own myself, so I own what I produce.

And? Why does everyone have to be marketable? We are all forced to live in this system since birth, but that doesn't mean everyone likes it or can participate in it properly.

>inb4 go live in the forest

im lazy/unambitious sector + bunch of other things related to selfloath, i eat once per day since i deserve no more, barely alive is all a parasite deserves maybe one day il have enough of this pain and git gud, roof over the head and the ability to shitpost is all i really need so its a poison in on itself.

This

>Thinking rich people don't run socialist countries

I would own it simply because I work alongside you... I don't think you understand how it works.

Truth. Socialism is the lazy and emotional man's society.

We are in socialism because banker bailouts and because of a whole heap of tards who are good for nothing other than loaning money and doing usury.

Republicans are socialist.

No, it's just what would suit you best.
Same as a musician advocating for socialism because it's better for his way of understanding life

I understand how your retarded system works, and it's still retarded. "Working" within a certain distance of me doesn't automatically entitle you to the product of my labor. A voluntary misery agreement would be a different story, but you faggots aren't advocating for voluntary communes, you're advocating for forcing your bullshit views on everyone else by abolishing capitalism.

Karl needs a helicopter ride

There is no free market.
Consumer capitalism is a command economy.

Depends. If that ditch is being dug as a means to allow the drain of flood waters or will be the home of a waterline or sewer line, than they should be paid equally. Our standard of living didn't increase because of drugs so much as we finally started pumping our shit away from where we lived. Both are productive members of society and ought to be given the means to live.

If that "ditch" is just staring at a pie chart and saying the factory should be built in town A versus town B, than no. That job is not productive and deserves to be burned in the shit pile it came from.

If socialism was good enough for our Lord Jesus Christ, it's good enough for me.

The only time we should ever be concerned with the working class is when they can be cynically used as minions against rich liberals. Other than that, fuck 'em.

jesus didnt give a fuck about politics he probably would have beat marx' jewish ass like all the merchants he drove from the temples

Tough shit?
You want to be rewarded for doing fucking nothing.
Meritocracies bring out the best of societies through social darwinism.

you can't outsource an oil well or refinery you retard. A job like yours isn't affected by outsourcing but mainly by international commodity markets, OPEC, economic conditions as a whole (phases in the business cycle affect commodities more as the demand for raw material rises/lowers - cyclical by nature), and government policy.

If you're weren't retarded, you'd make bank during the energy boom and invest it wisely should you get laid off during a bust. But you don't, cause most laborers are fucking retarded in managing their finances.

This fucking guy just said that digging a ditch for a sewer is just as valuable as finding the cure for cancer.

I rest my case.

He does. He never had a job a day in his life and he himself was bourgeoisie: wealth, educated, rich parents, a fucking white male etc. who made up some special snowflake faggot ideology that ruined eastern europe and asia, and caused the death of over 100 million people.

the merchants were capitalists, derp!

>implying the cure for cancer hasn't already been found

Bullshit. There are barely any employees in the fields or in the plants. They are all contract labor. The bigger company hires a smaller company to find dipshits who want a "good paying job", and the smaller company takes a cut from that pay.

That is outsourcing, dimwit. The major company refuses to hire employees and the smaller company is taking a slice of the pay for doing jack shit for productivity.

Jews advocate for capitalism in their own country and Socialism everywhere else. Every stop and wonder why?

Just like your advocating for forcing your bullshit Capitalism on everyone else & abolishing Socialism. Right?

Nope. You're welcome to have your own little communes where you can dress up in skinny jeans and starve together. Just don't come to my fortress crying about me owing you shit for existing.

You are only a part of the whole process that provides value to the consumer.
Using heavy machinery doesn't market your products to the people who needs them.
It doesn't give any insurance to the people who are using your product that your product or service will be reliable and continuing.

The fact that you are able to produce goods/services using these expensive machinery without prior investments and its resulting consequences is the main reason why your ideas are retarded.

You are producing these values when someone else is bearing the financial risks and consequences while you get your financial security in the form of monthly paychecks without the need of any concern on the whole process.

This. Go find some like minded people and build a fucking commune and leave us alone.

Could the scientist discover the cure for cancer while swimming in his own shit?

>So why should I pay you 80k/year if a chink can do your job for 60k/year?

Because he fucking deserves 80k+ a year, and the fact that you can get desperate Asians to do it for less is exploiting their circumstances via taking advantage of laws that allow corporations to hire people across borders while denying those people the same rights that someone employed in their own country would have, which allows the people invested in that to rake in way more profits than society should rightly allow them. It's only because corporations collude with the government elite, while others turn a blind eye to this, that this happens. Otherwise, there is little preventing quality of working conditions for all degrading to be closer to that of the countries with the weakest living conditions, which nations should prevent.

Go out into wilderness and try to survive with that engineering degree.

Wrong: you're proved it.

This.

Companies should strictly be owned by the workers. If you don't work for a company, you shouldn't be able to own it.

>someone else is bearing the financial risks and consequences

A large portion of which is from people who have enough money to afford the risk without a given failure impacting their lifestyle in any meaningful way.

Jobs are paid based on the value they give.
Like everything else, the value is determined with supply and demand.

A cure for cancer is not valuable when:
1. In a world where cancer doesn't exist, therefore no demand for its cure
2. In a world where everything cures cancer, therefore unlimited supply of cancer cures

Unfortunately in our world, digging ditches doesn't have much demand.
And even if it did, there are a lot of people/machinery that are able to dig ditches. Further devaluing the job value.

The scientist is capable of building a sewer or curing caner, the construction worker on the other hand is not capable of curing cancer. Explain to me again how they are equal?

Move to where the work is then? Also if you can't find high-paying work in an oil town during an energy boom that's on you. Mcdonald's employees in Calgary were making $25/hr while oil was $100+/barrel.

Literally just move to ND right now and you'll be rolling in it.

Are you literally retarded? Engineering is a great skill for a survival situation, unlike being able to write ironic poems or play stairway to heaven on the guitar.

>Because he fucking deserves 80k+ a year,
Entitled faggot detected.

>people should be paid based on their calorie expenditure

Nice try retard. It doesn't work like that.

The original communist movements were explicitly Christian and were were born exactly to create a society where people would live the way Jesus wanted them to.

>the system isnt fair because there are richer people than me
No one is born equal.

>You sitting in your fucking office chair typing in your fucking spreadsheet does jack shit
It's almost like you have absolutely no idea what it's like running a company.

>all degrees that aren't marketable are grotesque parodies of the men who women choose before you

Hope it gets better for you, honestly

You're right, those who believe that birth should determine one's right to live freely are probably born mentally feeble

jesus was a jew advocating socialism in his country

I'm fucking proud of being an entitled faggot, as it's the only way we will get society to prevent those with excess power from fucking over people who actually do their work and preventing their money form 'tricking down'. More people should be entitled faggots, and the more that pisses people like you off, that happier I'll be.

Honestly it seems like most of these socialists are just mad that they get paid the same as or less than somebody who performs a task that is less physically demanding.

Guess what socialist faggots. I worked manual labor from the time I was 13 to 25. Just because I spent the day lugging fucking bricks doesn't mean I am more valuable than the guy sitting at a desk all day drawing engineering blueprints for a building. He can do my job but I can't do his.

The only one angry appears to be you. Just because you lack the ambition and commitment to better your standing in life doesn't mean you get to take somebody elses shit. There are plenty of other socialists like you, you guys are more than free to go start a commune and leave everyone else the fuck alone.

People don't get money or earnings from 'doing their work'.
People get money from producing value.
No one will give you money to trade with other's results of labor from you doing 'work' no one needed or wanted.

Finding these people who will need your products/service is one of the hardest process from creating a value which most people just doesn't want to acknowledge.

Why do you believe that you are entitled to other's fruit of labor while providing no value in exchange?

kek this reminds me of those workers who keeps demanding wage rise in our country which ends up destroying factory business and inflation.

The pursuit of wealth under capitalism has led to the rapid rise of civilization through innovation in computer technology, transportation, and production to increase competitiveness through increased efficiency.

The only workers not subject to free market conditions are government employees since the government is a racket that isn't subject to productivity or market constraints. Under socialism everyone would essentially be a government employee and the result would be greece (i.e promising high wages to everyone only possible through debt financing from your productive creditors).

I'm sure Warren Buffett would be a great physical laborer. I'm sure Zuck would be a fantastic lumberjack.

What of me, lad? What of the rest like me, highly educated, working more than you could imagine, naturally healthy and intelligent, choosing to live poorly to do what I love instead of cucking myself into working for bosses who are born with billions? Laborers work harder than you do in a year, and they don't choose that pathway because they're unmotivated, but because it's all they can do, or all they're offered. Why does your decision to be a weak, pathetic serf reflect at all on the rest of our desires to live happily?

True, luckily I had a rags to riches (relative) life so I will never really identify with these faggots who always blame everyone but themselves for their shortcomings. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the left has more NEETs than the right.

>I have no idea what socialism is so I'll call it statism

>I have no idea what essentially means
>>since the government is a racket that isn't subject to productivity or market constraints

>kid with no marketable skill inherits millions
>put money on fund
>said bank fund manager loans money at made up interest rates
>kid becomes richer by the day while doing absolutely nothing and in fact consuming resources that could sustain perhaps hundreds of people

Not a commie or anything but trustfund babies are pretty unfair, royalty of our times, 90% of the worlds richest people (above 20miion in assets) are rich because of inheritance not due to their marketable skills.
Tl;dr richest people stay rich just because they're rich while the poor and skilled kill each other for the leftovers

see
This is me faggot,learn how the ID's work. I worked manual labor for over 10 years so don't even try and talk to me about hard work bitch, I was working 60 hours a week at age 13 getting paid off the books. As I said, you are free to go live in a fucking commune if you want. But you aren't going to take the wealth of everyone else just because you feel entitled to it.

The meaning of 'socialism' in National Socialism was explicitly based on promoting community, family and race - the state takes an active role in promoting the welfare, employment etc. of its own people. This is very different from modern and Marxist socialism, which is completely limp-wristed and deracinated, and revolves around rearranging society for the benefit of the lowest common denominator.

the pursuit of wealth under capitalism has led to massive amounts of depletion of natural resources, environmental devastation, overpopulation, exploitation, world wars, pollution, economic disparity, crime.

Greece suffered from trusting a Goldman Sachs conman.

>I'm either stupid or willfully unintelligent

Also, and more importantly
>market constraints
it's almost like you're a brainwashed capitalist who can't see that capitalism allocates resources to match desires rather than needs, and capitalism inspires those desires via advertising and social cues. Your idea of an efficient system is one which sells only the product it makes you need, is self propagating only to help those who propagate it.

>muh self-made wealth!!
Enjoy working for the bossman your whole life. And we'd gladly live in our communes if you'd let us. Only you'd sabotage, steal, attack, tax, and misrepresent us into oblivion. Odd that one side is so threatened by the existence of the other...

Greece suffered like Spain because they had access to a strong currency for cheap under the EU. If they had their own currencies, lenders would've charged them higher rates but they piggy backed off stronger economies like France and Germany.

The result to the cheap money was lackadaisical spending from incompetent (liberal) governance. When the honey moon ended they were hit with a recession and devastating debt.

Greece only has themselves to blame and frankly European countries as a whole are fiscal embarrassments.

marry me

>Enjoy working for the bossman your whole life
I actually happen to be lucky enough that I love my work. I own a property maintenance company.

>And we'd gladly live in our communes if you'd let us. Only you'd sabotage, steal, attack, tax, and misrepresent us into oblivion.
So you're telling me that the only reason you haven't moved to/started a commune yet is because you don't think we would let you. HA.HA.

Just admit that you are one of the many faggots out there that actually happens to be intelligent but doesn't have the grit to go out and just do something. You have most likely lived a life of indecision and procrastination and it kills you because you know you are capable of achieving more.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Kek, the economic transformations nations went through around WW2 were enabled precisely because of management of private industry to serve specific ends, rather than allow the 'free market' to run its course, and this and more government initiatives are directly responsible for a significant portion of the technology you claim to be a result of 'market constraints'.

Of course you assume that I'm specifically doing this for myself, and not for the benefit of the many others who lack the opportunities that I have had and of which a significant portion of will necessarily get fucked over and compensated with shit for what they do without systematic changes enabling the bulk of them to gain meaningful power.

>Just because you lack the ambition and commitment
Shit, I'm not going for my masters and contacting people in multiple countries to discuss exactly how I can enhance their businesses for no fucking reason. I genuinely want to better other people's lives, and this requires people to get together and actively opposed existing power structures. If this gives talented people who otherwise wouldn't be willing or able to take on excessive risks more opportunity and fail-safes, while preventing excess, exponential accumulations of wealth, then great.

The resistance to reading and learning is amazing.
Kid naturally love to learn but modern socialist education kills the love to learn.
If you don't learn daily, you fall behind.

Bullshit. You want to FORCE people to live under your system because you know if given the choice people will say fuck that. As I said. There are plenty of people who feel the way you do. You are free to go start a commune but if you really think that you are going to take the wealth of others without consent you are a fucking nut.

1) Exactly: you're *lucky* enough. Whereas many aren't lucky. And why should they suffer, you thrive, for what is, in the end, luck--whether it be mental, opportunistic, health, or any of the other types of chance?

2) So if a commune was to begin here, in our freest of nations, the government wouldn't arrest us when we don't pay it taxes? We'd be given the land, not preyed upon by financial institutions, the state, etc? Or because, as it would and should be the case, a commune isn't geared to compete in a capitalist system with a capitalist entity, are you going to tell us we don't deserve to live without hurting others, live as we please? I'm not calling for global revolution; just let us live. Don't, as you ask of the Aussiefag, FORCE us to live under your system

>went through around WW2
The 60s to 80s was not really a productive year in terms of advancement of technology to consumer markets.
The period of time the syrup is more likely referring to is the past 2 decades.
Where technologies from the 50s such as Deep Learning are actually implemented and used to produce new goods/services that people needs.

>for the benefit of the many others who lack the opportunities that I have had
Cool empathy, good for you if you want to better someone else's life out of your own personal expense.
What you are advocating is to force everyone around you to do the same regardless of their input and opinion on these people you empathize.
If you feel someone got fucked by life. Feel free to give charity to them and feel good about yourself a little bit. Just don't expect or force everyone else to do the same.
Not everyone has the same financial leeway as you do.

1) First of all I'm lucky that I love my work because I found something I love doing. Turning it into a successful business endeavor was not luck.

2) If you want to live on a commune than I am totally fine with you not paying taxes but that also means not using any government maintained services.

You sound like you just want to be left alone but AUS fag over here wants to subject everybody to this shit involuntarily. I am all for live and let live. There is no one size fits all to life that goes for both socialism and capitalism.

correct
amazing people somehow think they can do better than capitalism
in 1800s usa went from 3rd rate colony to no1 in world without government help
no wonder socialist schools say ow 1800s were evil
If people knew the truth we would vote in lower gov spending and regulations

I need to sleep though good talk socialist fags.

shut up moron fascist/socialist/democrat/nazi/communist