Redpill me on the minimum wage

So I understand the problems of having a minimum wage and I definitely don't support (their) idea of raising it to "a living wage" or whatever, but I always see people saying we should abolish it entirely. In theory I'm a fan of this because I think employers should be able to do whatever the fuck they want to do with their own businesses but at the same time I'm afraid that we'd wind up with massive sweatshops paying people like 12 cents an hour. What's the incentive to make lower paying jobs still worth doing?

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if bernie was elected and he raised the minimum wage to $15 employers could not afford as many workers and the prices of everything would inflate making $15 become shit pay too

No I totally agree with you. What I'm asking is what's to stop like McDonalds or someone to just, "Alright fuck you all, our employees get paid 12 cents an hour now."

If jobs that pay less than $15 per hour weren't necessary, they wouldn't exist in the first place. Business owners don't employ out of charity. Someone will have perform them no matter the cost.

Inflation is literally the worst that could happen, and it wouldn't even be particularly high, given how small percentage of GDP the lower paying jobs comprise of.

Ideally competition would. Like "We'll pay 13 cents and hour" "We'll do 14!" ect
But for that to work you have to dump lots of regulations so it's easier and cheaper to start a business. (and clearly making government smaller is not approved by (((them))), so it isn't discussed)

I make 11 dollars a hour, although where I live, the minimum wage is 11.50 an hour, although I work for the Union so usually my paycheck is like 200-300 range, occasionally 180-190 depending on how much I make, if Trump elected, will the Tax I pay so much be less? And what kind of Jobs Trump bringing, I'm getting kinda tired of working food service, thank goodness I voted for him

Like all things it's only good or bad depending on the outcome. Both businessses and employees have legitimate grievances around minimum wage laws. Sup Forums should tell you it's "redpilled" not to have a national minimum wage because that reduces competition and creates more government control in markets.

>Redpill me on the minimum wage

>Person contributes $5 dollars of value
>Min wage says to pay them $7
>Business goes bankrupt
That's it in a nutshell

No, in places like Commiefornia where the $15/hr wage is implemented employment has gone down as most of the businesses have started to automate. Honestly in a few years no one will work at mcdonalds other than the management and maybe a maintenance department because they're in the process of automatizing their entire stores. Same with grocery stores. This was always going to happen but the increase in the minimum wage has accelerated the process and gotten rid of the jobs entirely.

if you can't afford to pay your employees a livable wage then you have a broken business model and should go out of business.

It's about supply and demand.
If someone pays like shit and their work conditions are shit then they will barely get enough workers to operate and will eventually loose profits
Thus wages should be a matter of individual contracts.

A minimum wage results in:

Tons of UNDERPAID workers.

A shitty work market for anyone wanting to earn anything more than a minimum wage.

Employers finding even more ways to make cuts to encrease their profits.

Robbs the workers of their choice, they either have to stay for a crap job or enter the market oversarurated with more crap jobs , basically pure wage slavery.

You get crafts like plumbing, mechanics and the like back to being valuable now that Mexicans aren't lowering the price of those services.

ez remove the minimum wage, make better rules for unions. after that you will see the wage go up without the government forcing it, and without it hurting the business.

Cutting minimum wage won't work with current immigration policy and illegal immigrants willing to work for nothing.

youtube.com/watch?v=ihKZ3FMDjqU

wtf are you doing if you contributes 5 dollars of value.

that's a good point. they need to fix that first.

>can't afford to pay your employees a livable wage
Why can't the employee look for a higher paying job?

If I want to hire you to create a website but I can only pay $5, why should the government step in and force me to pay $7?
You should be able to tell me to fuck off and find a better job, not force me to pay you more.

Well min. wage is $10.85 where I live and a big mac meal costs $11 before taxes.

So yeah, fuck that.

The minimum wage is so low in the USA at least that the distortionary effects on the labor market are negligible, it does however encourage businesses to pay people off the books, oftentimes undocumented workers. So it creates a double whammy of taking jobs from legal citizens and marginally reducing the tax base.

IMO a more sensible labor policy is a negative income tax combined with an earned income tax credit.

>Why can't the employee look for a higher paying job?
I never thought of that way. why don't people just work at better paying jobs.

Nobody is gonna get off their ass for that little, and not even machines are that cheap to operate, the absolute bottom for wage rates is the marginal cost of capital.

>why don't people just work at better paying jobs
Because their skills suck and they have no better options.

No, remove the unions and raise minimum wage.
Unions are cancer.

This.

The minimum wage is just fiddling with the market by introducing a price floor, the only real way to create a sustainable increase in wages paid is to increase demand for labor. That can be done in a myriad of ways; the left will tell you the gov needs to invest heavily in job creation, the right will say we need to remove regulations.

screw wages, just lower the taxes
and make politicians work for less or nothing at all

increasing the minimum wage will rase the unemployment. How much? more ore less depending on the heath and productivity of and economy

or*
health*

A few years ago Thailand raised its minimum wage by 20%. Everything suddenly got more expensive.

t. was there when that happened.

non failures don't earn minimum wage. If you are over 18 and earning mim, you fucked up.

Profits are maximized when wages equal marginal product of labor.
Not paying your employees enough creates deadweight loss.

>livable wage
if they aren't dead, then its livable

That's a moronic argument because not all labor is worth a living wage. You're just destroying low value jobs.

Most people get over minimum wage in the first place, it only prevents jobs that would be taken by low skilled workers (Unskilled,young) for less then minimum wage. Jobs like McDonalds that have employees that are not worth paying over minimum wage are going to protest themselves into robots taking over their low skill jobs

so i get a living wage for mowing your lawn?

>but at the same time I'm afraid that we'd wind up with massive sweatshops paying people like 12 cents an hour
How could this happen when another company could say "we'll pay you 13 cents an hour"? In a competitive market you have to provide the best value to both your customer and your employee to incentivize them to buy from and work for you.

ban unions
ban min wage
ban building code
ban pub school
ban cash to universiy
ban bank regs
ban expensive jail
get rid of most laws
allow free trade without regulation
enforce property and contracts

Typical American work.

t. Lazy, probably overpaid Amerifat

Real unions are not a cancer. Unions are the reason mcdonald is paying danish workers 20 $ per hour

>real unions
Don't exist in America, they're just mobs. Unions were a decent response to an issue a long time ago but they've WELL over-stayed their welcome.

that's why you burges need to reform them.

Lol'ed

This!!

Every time the min wage went up here in PR everything else went up to compensate for the labor cost. Water, electricity, clothes, food etc.

We ended up living the same life style as before the raise. If the wage goes up 25% so will everything else.

The cost has to come from somewhere and this is what those stupid fucks in NY fail to understand.

I've always said raise the minimum wage to $25/hour so all of the minimum wage supporters can't get a job and starve to death. Then I learned that the unemployed get food stamps. What's the fucking point?

>mfw

Sup, Mauritius Bro.

Workers in Seattle actually opted to work less hours after the minimum wage hike so they could keep their benefits.

Sounds about right. Similar shit happened when a part of Obamacare went into effect that required employers to pay a tax on employees working over 30 hours a week. Lo-and-behold, employees had their hours cut to 29 hours. Economics is a bitch.

The problem is that the shittiest jobs in society in this current day still need to be done because there's no automation

Even one room apartments cost $1000 a month

Either you pay lower tier whites enough to live in or you can bring in nonwhite illegals who squat in makeshift shacks and work for pennies

I don't know about you but I'd be willing to pay a few extra dollars to keep the country majority white

The real problem though is inflation and the fact that (((fiat money))) is a fucking illusion backed by nothing. We need to go back to a precious materials backed currency. The whole wage issue started after the gold standard was dropped

The problem is at the low wages you can't afford to live anywhere but the street

So if people won't work for you you're going to have to raise wages or die anyways

>Either you pay lower tier whites enough to live in
Or you get government out of the housing market/don't live in a highly demanded area with 0 skills.

>(((free trade)))

If you want the chinks to take over manufacturing and the Jews to take over administration sure

Remember the white race and the nation comes before economic freedom

I hope minimum wage goes away. My business would skyrocket if it did! I would hire a dozen people and expand our product line etc.

Id start everyone at where i started when I was 15..... 4.25 an hr. I think thats fair.

The national socialist idea in the union was actually a good one

I fired 3 people this year and kept 1 because of the new minimum wage
I found a way to get the 1 person to optimize their work load and i do a lot of the work myself. Thanks to the new mininum wage increase it forced me to downsize and we are now keeping more money while our business is expanding.

Its a good thing. It forces you to remove bloated payrolls.

Worthless eaters the lot of em.

>paying people like 12 cents an hour

Nobody has to accept a job for less pay than they're willing to accept, so this wouldn't happen. Salary should be agreed upon between the employer and the employee with no government interference.

There is no government in the housing market here mate

You can thank the chinks bribing the government to help them buy houses to launder moneyfor that

And no it's not in highly demand areas it's everywhere from the city to bumfuck nowhere that you can't rent under $1000

It's the opposite here. We need a government big enough to deport all the fucking chinks and seize their ill used money laundering houses

>There is no government in the housing market here mate
Oh you're not talking about the US, fuck off then.

BernieBros insist that maximum wages should be not much more than 100 times the living wage, and that the minimum wage should not be much less than the living wage, and that a living wage should be about $30K per year for those working 40 hours a week.

HAHAHAHAH!!!!

Thing is, that would imply that people making more than $3 million per year would be overtaxed -- which is obviously unfair. People voted for the GOP candidate for a reason. They don't believe in communism. They believe in the strong dominating the weak. Good times. I can't wait to savor the further impoverishment of clueless sub-millionaires over the next 4-8 years.

Your proxy is showing

Cuck

You guys do have government in your housing market?

I thought all they did was build shacks for niggers in places where whites wouldn't want to go anywhere near anyways

Well, it's complicated. In short, I don't believe the minimum wage should jump to $15/h or whatever it is that those Sanders sucking idiots think, but I do think that it should rise yearly with inflation (and for reasons I'll explain later, so should the minimums and maximums for income tax brackets). Now, if the minimum wage is to be doubled outright, then the costs of goods would increase by a factor roughly related to this (not necessarily because businesses wouldn't be profitable, but because it would give businesses the excuse to raise prices), so that $15/h wouldn't go as far (though it would likely go further than $7.25/h). However, without an increase in income tax brackets, more of an individual's income would be in a higher bracket meaning he will pay more in income taxes. The real winner of increasing the minimum wage would be government.

>Government mandates a minimum price on a good that is worth less than that price
>Nobody buys that good

Minimum wage was implemented to price blacks out of the labor market, not to benefit people who made low wages. Blacks in the 20's and 30's were doing the same work for less, so the government implemented a price control so nobody would hire them when they could get a white for the same price.

Finance degree fag here. I'll take a stab at this.
Human capital is so cheap in the modern era, with massive automation, that abolishing the minimum wage would, as you say, create sweat shops, long work hours, increased crime, poverty, etc. However, it would also push the price of goods way down and decrease unemployment, offsetting SOME (not all) of the negative affects. All in all, most economists agree that this isn't a great idea.
On the other hand, a "living wage" would increase unemployment and inflation. However, they will not increase inflation at the same amount as minimum wage, as most goods produced aren't created by only minimum wage workers. This is why most economists think increasing the minimum wage is a good idea.
Let's also remember that if minimum wage was matched with inflation when it was created, it would be somewhere near $20.
Let me know if you disagree

What is your annual income, currently?

>most economists agree that...

Do you even understand how brainwashed you are?

>But I do think that it should rise yearly with inflation (and for reasons I'll explain later, so should the minimums and maximums for income tax brackets)

Do that and you effectively end the middle class like in Australia. With our minimum wage being close to $20, the only way you can get a job is if you're doing something that pays that because it's extremely undesirable (graveyard shifts for example), you're highly educated, or you're simply ineligible for minimum wage. Here, you aren't eligible for minimum wage until you're 21, so nobody over 21 has any chance of getting an entry level job when someone two or three years younger can be hired for half the cost.
The result is that many people, particularly in regional areas, have ended up having LOWER earning potential as they became legal adults compared to when they were teenagers as higher education or Apprenticeships were simply unavailable to them, and they were priced out of the majority of unskilled jobs by government mandate.

Haha. I'm just telling the truth, man. If you have any specific points you wanna make, let me know.

You name the problem as pegging minimum wage with inflation but discuss issues specific to age discrimination regarding wages.

>also push the price of goods

not true
rich fucks will just make more money as we can see now

One causes the other. Make underage eligible for minimum wage and they'll never get a job, make it so they aren't eligible, then it's much harder to get a job if you're older.

The solution is for the government to just fuck off and lets us negotiate this shit for ourselves.

>but I do think that it should rise yearly with inflation
No, the minimum wage and fed should be abolished and our inflated currency should be allowed to crash before being returned to the gold standard. That way we can have an actual functioning economy again.

>one causes the other
Not true. The US has a minimum wage with no age specification. The Australian minimum wage is the perfect example of what would happen if America increased ours. Higher unemployment, more expensive goods, but an overall healthier poor class

>but an overall healthier poor class
What the hell are you talking about?

>That way we can have an actual functioning economy again.
This is the kind of thinking that scares me.
I really do implore you to look up the role of the FED in regulating the economy. Or look up the US economy prior to Nixon.

>Or look up the US economy prior to Nixon.
Pic related, we had more volatile inflation and deflation but the deflation served the purpose of counteracting the inflation. We don't have that anymore.
The issues you fear are not issues of the function of the economy, but issues of the time period. The Fed and QE are a fucking meme and are only leading inching us towards a rising cliff that we're refusing to jump off of to lessen the inevitable impact.

If companies only offered 12 cents an hour, nobody would work.

It's like supply and demand. There's an equalibrium of what people will accept and what employers will pay.

I have plenty of 'specific points', dude. Be honest, as a finance student, the notion that "a living wage would increase unemployment and inflation" is based on a straight-up rightwing ideological framework that has been disconfirmed empirically. Would you like citations, or are you so far gone that you will endorse whatever can be comfortably and permanently fit into your plutocratic worldview?

This is a perfect examplease of why armchair economics is a poison. Just leave it to the experts, folks.
I would bet money that you don't actually know what the Fed does

counteracting the inflation to achieve relative equilibrium, to be more specific.

Not an argument.

You're saying increasing minimum wage won't increase inflation or unemployment?
I'd love to see some sources. I'm not saying that's all it does, but it certainly does that

You're right. But tell me what the Fed does

I'll leave it to the experts :-)

I wonder how many of you are actually earning over 100k annually or have a net worth over 2m.

If you are pre-rich and aspiring to be successful, know that it won't happen. The best thing for you plebs to do is just accept that your betters control the economic systems and will continue raping you for your labor.

The funniest thing to me is a poor capitalist. The ironic thing is that Jews are embedded in both capitalism and communism on the highest level so you can't even use that as an argument.

The reality is that it's not about race or religion, it's about us vs you, rich vs poor.

Good call

I don't think there is a big competition for shitty jobs.

Just keep minimum wage to avoid getting screwed over by immigrants but don't raise it to "solve" poverty. That won't work

Learn how the monetary system works: youtube.com/watch?v=jqvKjsIxT_8

Fuck off commie. Capitalism makes everyone better off, even the poor

Or abolish it and build a wall.

I know a great deal about it. How about don't learn your economics from YouTube videos

The vast majority of the "poor" completely deserve to be poor. They're the people who spend $50 a day on cigarettes then wonder why they have no money.
The issue is not the amount of people who are poor, but the ability of those who are poor to better their situation if they use their heads and try.

I'm actually a capitalist because I hate poor people. I also happened to be born into a family with over 20m so I don't quite give a shit.

I just find it funny when I see a laissez faire peasant. It's akin to finding a negro in the KKK.

I generously provided to you a primer about how money is created. Apparently, you are not even smart enough to consume elementary facts about how the monetary system works. Don't know what to tell you, son.

Anyone who receives less than $1 million per year in income = poor. And poor people get what they get.

Jew here.
The minimum wage should be low. Raising it will cause inflation.
Everybody can do a minimum wage job.

No, that's not how it works.

It has more to do with net worth rather than strictly income. If I have 5m but only make 150-200k, I'm not exactly poor am I?

Please explain to me why is that, and I'll disprove it. Filthy goy, thinks he can outsmart the jew when talking about money.

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