Why do socialists think they will gain anything from taking over the means of production?

Why do socialists think they will gain anything from taking over the means of production?

Why are they stupid enough to think their personal material wealth will somehow increase when in reality it won't?

This is probably the biggest hole in socialist theories yet hardly anyone talks about it.

>communist revolution
>take every last penny from capitalists
>divided up amongst everyone it works out to about $500 per person(yes that little)
>go to spend that money
>prices increase because no new consumer goods are produced in this situation
>workers are in the same exact situation they were the revolution but now the economy is completely destroyed

OR

>communist revolution
>every consumer good the capitalists own is split up and given to the workers
>it's such an extremely small amount of goods that not even 1% of workers will be able to get any of this

OR

>communist revolution
>money is abolished
>workers take over the means of production completely
>the same exact quantity of consumer goods that was being produced under capitalism are again produced
>the working class has to work JUST AS HARD and JUST AS LONG as they did under capitalism to produce the same amount of shit they were previously consuming
and this scenario is forgetting about the economic calculation problem and the fact economies like this never work.


Either way you go about this there's no getting "MUH SURPLUS VALUE" back. 99.5% of the consumer goods the working class was producing was already being consumed and owned by the working class, not the capitalists. The capitalists own only extremely small amounts of consumer goods(houses, cars boats, tvs, food, porn, medicine) compared to what the whole working class owns.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=UTVbZ-Df7AQ
mises.org/library/end-socialism-and-calculation-debate-revisited
youtube.com/watch?v=U-fd-5CGHvs
iea.org.uk/publications/research/scandinavian-unexceptionalism-culture-markets-and-the-failure-of-third-way-soc
twitter.com/AnonBabble

bump

bumping with random pictures until this thread takes off

does bumping even work anymore?

no and fuck you

Oh look, another cuck Sup Forums poster defending rich people like good little useful idiots they are

saved

Фaк ю тyy.

Commies are retarded. In short they all believe the following:
"Everything everybody else owns belongs to everybody, everything I won belongs to me only"

>RRREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>FUCKING BOURGIES

>ONE DAY I WILL GET MY 40 DOLLARS FROM YOU
>ONE GOD DAMN DAY REEEEEEE
>WHY AM I SUCH A LOSER

but jews are rich

So they will have a say in how their place of work is run and not be exploited by their boss you idiot.

Why does JIDF keep making gay slide threads?

Imagine if millions of normies in the US and EU went onto Sup Forums and subsequently found out about the Isreali Mossad agents who were arrested by the NYPD on Sept. 11, 2001 driving white trucks loaded with explosives and carrying a fake work order from a known mossad front company to do work on the fire prevention systems in the World trade center towers starting two weeks before the attacks?

If millions of goyim suddenly knew about the "kurtzberg bothers" and "magic heating & plumbing" i think geo-politics would change DRASTICALLY

>So they will have a say in how their place of work is run and not be exploited by their boss you idiot.
So you're admitting, socialism will not increase your living standards whatsoever except for the fact you get more coffee in the lunchroom?

Also most workers are fucking idiots that have no idea how to run a business. Workplace democracy is retarded. If you don't like working somewhere, change jobs.

>idiots mix up private and personal property again, episode XI

except thats not how its like
you cant even legally "build" a house by yourself anymore
Heres a comic that would make more sense
>hey thanks for building this house for me, heres the money for labor now ( $5)
>Now let me sell this house for 500 dollars!
>y-you mean i dont get to live in this house i just bought?
>OF COURSE NOT IDIOT, YOU CANT AFFORD IT AND I OWN THE LAND
>Also dont collect rain water
>also dont even think about investing in clean energy, I need my 60 year oil investments to work out faggot

also meant
>built

btw if that wasnt clear

>angry bootlicking cuck didn't even read the thread and whines about private and personal property distinctions 99.9999% of people don't ascribe to

>you cant even legally "build" a house by yourself anymore
Thanks to government zoning laws and central banks which have dramatically increased the costs of housing, lots and the materials to build.
The only solution is to free the market.

NOBODY HAS RESPONDED TO THE ARGUMENT IN THE OP YET

>classcuck keeps working against his self-intrests

Everytime. Temporarly displaced millionare huh?

Stawman argument is a fallacy an non-sequitur

>You pretended to pay me so I'll pretend to work

And everything goes to shit.

>YOUR BEST INTEREST IS TO LIVE UNDER AN AUTHORITARIAN DICTATORSHIP
>calls others cucks

>Temporarly displaced millionare huh?
Lol no.
You think I would magically have more resources if there was a socialist revolution?
The same amount of resources would exist?

Why the fuck would anyone want a socialist revolution and have their rights taken away?

KEK
Imagine if you were able to refute the argument without shitposting and being butthurt.

Every single one of you people need to be killed.

I would agree. market socialists are a thing.
>Give me fair pay
>keep corporations from controlling the government
>Dont tax me and then not give me healthcare
>If its a "free" market stop using propaganda again renewable energy

>market socialists are a thing.
They're only slightly less retarded.

Why is marxism such a religion?

They act like angry children whenever you bring up simple facts that refutes their ideology.

ether way i shouldnt have to pay out of pocket for something i need to life.
Although im willing to give food a pass because most people can obtain food in someway shape or form even with out money.

Healthcare on the other hand....

Same with education why do we have to jump through hoops as some school that is trying to make you fail so you can give them more money if you can already learn stuff for FREE off the internet.

a. When they have control the workers will be able to take home more money due to not having a boss take a disproportionate cut of profits and being able to set their own wages
b. Under worker control they may cut hours, allow maternity leave, give sick days, etc much more generously than any boss would
c. There may still be managers who direct the business but they will not have the absolute power a boss does and will be accountable to their coworkers
d. I appreciate that you're a cuck who wants others to tell him what to do, but some people want control of their lives

>ether way i shouldnt have to pay out of pocket for something i need to life.
Yes you should.

>Healthcare on the other hand....
Healthcare was much better under a free market. The government destroyed healthcare in the usa
pic related

it seems you have your oppinion set and don't want to understand other's point of view.
Just want a good fight and use insults.
Good for you

So to you it makes sense to
>Work
>get paper
>exchange paper for your health

Rather than
>Work
>Get healthcare
>use money to pay food

Its literally only a matter of time until we have to be hooked to machines that you have to pay to breathe or it fucking suffocates you.

Seriously whats the point of paying money to live, why am i working to get money that people just want back? might as well keep the money.

>AUTHORITARIAN DICTATORSHIP
look, another faggot doesn't know what communism is

>When they have control the workers will be able to take home more money
HEHE
Here we go.
First off, a large portion of the profits made in a firm have to be reinvested back into the firm to stay competitive and generate more profits.
Secondly if you took the boss out of the picture entirely the workers wages will increase yes, but SO WILL PRICES.
The same amount of resources are being produced/consumed in the economy.
Money does not equal resources. The vast majority of money the boss has he SAVES(meaning resources are not being consumed).

>Under worker control they may cut hours, allow maternity leave, give sick days, etc
Firms can only do things like this if they are profitable enough. If they waste too much money on vacations and benefits the firms will be uncompetitive and go bankrupt. In a free market workers compete for jobs that provide the best benefits. One of the main reason spain's unemployment rate is so high is because the government mandates an insane amount of benefits and many firms cannot pay for them.

>I appreciate that you're a cuck
You literally support authoritarian dictatorships controlling every aspect of your life. You're the literal definition of a cuck.

>>Work
>>get paper
>>exchange paper for your health
Yes.
Freedom of choice is a good thing. I don't want the state controlling my healthcare. Canada's healthcare is a piece of shit.

Read that image, also read this one. American healthcare used to be so fucking cheap before the government/healthcare industry monopolized it.

>>Work
>>Get healthcare
>>use money to pay food
But the government takes my money in taxes to pay for the healthcare. I would be paying far more in taxes throughout my life than I receive in healthcare.

After the calamity, the NEET will emerge from the ashes of the world, to survey his surrounds. He looks, with pity, upon the scattered corpses of countless wagecucks, their failed civilisation, now in ruins.

Does he toil to rebuild? No, thanks to a life of study, the NEET posesses vast amounts of knowledge to make his post-apocalyptic life a veritable breeze. What will he do today? Perhaps 3D print a barn, or maybe fly-fish for salmon. The world is his oyster.

>BAWWWWWW IT'S NOT AUTHORITARIAN
To the helicopters with you whiners.

But it is not about material wealth essentially and if Western Europe stop having imperialistic economies, the matieral standards would go down.

"Socialists" think that the worker's will gain control over the economy/production, if production is owned by them. They think that this will lead to a society without classes, and that everyone would have more or less the same economical interessts and thus less contradictions.

And a planned economy would, with good leadership, be more effective than a capitalist one. Both in theory and in practice, as history have shown. Now we have advanced computers and more automation and a planned economy have never been more suitable.

I am not gonna bother replying to your scenarios that just show that you don't get what Socialism or Communism is about.

They would gain more since surplus value that is extracted form their labor would go to them via state alligation.

communism is a stateless society, idiot

Instead of actually addressing the fact that no new consumer goods will be produced after a socialist revolution and he would be just as poor under socialism than under capitalism, the angry leftypol cuck makes one final shitpost before hanging himself.

>hypothetical

>Ml`s are the only commies around
>socialism = communism

You should not talk about subject that you lack even wikipedia level of understanding about.

The theory is that if you are splitting the bills with your fellow citizens it should be "more"
also if the health care is taken out of your pay (taxed) before you get it. it should even out, you should be getting more spending money for goods since your living expense is already being taken care of.

Also sort of sickening that even if you want to pay out of pocket you cant because you have to get a loan for everything.
Need a car
>bank loan
need a house
>bank loan
We cant even afford what we are consuming anymore and are money is going right to the banks anyways.

I'd have respect for socialists/communists if they admitted that 0.5% of the population(kikes) are massively disproportionately represented in the banking industries etc.
But instead it's all "FUCKING WHITE MALES UGH"
Its the kikes fucking things up, not corporations

>But it is not about material wealth
Bullshit.
This is what almost every edgy marxist teen on the internet implies all of the time.

>RRRREEEEEE I HATE WORKING FOR A BOSS I WISH I HAD MORE RESOURCES TO LIVE MY LIFE

>And a planned economy would, with good leadership, be more effective than a capitalist one. Both in theory and in practice, as history have shown. Now we have advanced computers and more automation and a planned economy have never been more suitable. >DUUUHHHHRR WE HAV COMPUTAHS NOW SO THE COMPUTER GOD SHOULD TAKE AWAY ALL OF OUR RIGHTS AND CONTROL US
Okay venus project

>I am not gonna bother replying to your scenarios that just show that you don't get what Socialism or Communism is about.
Ahhhh, I love this one.
Really hit a nerve didn't I?

>They would gain more since surplus value that is extracted form their labor would go to them via state alligation.
lol

Surplus value doesn't exist.

It's just a marxist fairy tale. It can't be represented by anything real in the world.
This is why socialism won't provide you any new resources.

>We cant even afford what we are consuming anymore and are money is going right to the banks anyways.
Blame central banks and low interest rates for our debt slavery.

Our statist economy system policy basically is "savings is bad, debt is good".

Having trouble getting my point across because i've been up for a few days. but yeah...
>shouldnt be more
>our money

Marx does. You should read his essay on the subject called "On the Jewish Question".

We communists are against all forms of identity politics form the religious idiocy to question of racial identities.

>>Ml`s are the only commies around
They're the vast majority of them.

If you're a communist, you're probably a ML.

>>socialism = communism
Is socialism not a requirement for communism to eventually exist you moron?

>zizek
lmao only people like you would listen to that fat greasy pseudointellectual

>I don`t understand how capital and demand&supply work

Back to econ 101 with you.

>leafposter destroying anally ravaged 16 year old "communists" itt
What is the world coming to?

Yeah but thats part of what the socialist system is trying to stop.
or at least market socialism/libertarian socialism/democratic soc.

>We communists are against all forms of identity politics form the religious idiocy to question of racial identities.
Yes, we get it.
You people don't believe in evolution and actually believe all human behavior is the result of economic and social forces.

You people are embarrassing and retarded.

There's zero chance your ideology will ever rise again.

a. The point is wealth will be distributed more equally, without large amounts going to the capitalist class.
b. Obviously people will have to actually work, but these decisions should be made by the people whose lives it affects the most, not by a boss who only cares about profit
c. >market socialism and anarchism don't exist
Also if freedom is good outside the workplace why is it bad inside the workplace?

No, its both, kikes and corporations
sjws are the only ones that say kill all whites
Those are liberals. and only a bourgeois would think gender and race warfare takes priority over the class war.

>a marxist telling anyone else to go back to econ 101
>a marxist that believes in theories nobody takes seriously and who believes surplus value actually exists talking about supply and demand

I already explained when talking purely about resources, the capitalists have NOTHING for you. You won't gain any more consumer goods.

Does this anger you?

Wrong. Engels already disproved equality or races form communist perspective in his book "birth of state, family and private property".

>taking over the means of production?
I am so sick of this stupid meme.
This is Orwellian speak
>ministry of truth
>ministry of plenty
>taking over the means of production
The exact fucking opposite of what it means.
''Taking over the means of production?'' is capitalism. Socialism/communism is the exact opposite of ''taking over the means of production''.

youtube.com/watch?v=UTVbZ-Df7AQ

>This is probably the biggest hole in socialist theories yet hardly anyone talks about it.
No it's not
This is
Socialism is quite literally impossible because of it and Socialist Haven't been able to answer this in nearly 100 years and honestly barely any have even been able to comprehend it
mises.org/library/end-socialism-and-calculation-debate-revisited

>Yeah but thats part of what the socialist system is trying to stop.
Bullshit.
That's what libertarians have been trying to stop for over 100 years.

Socialists want to destroy the financial system completely, and have the state completely run our lives.

>Engels already disproved
LMAO
Dude Engels is fucking pseudoscience.
Nobody takes this shit seriously. There's so many fucking holes in marxism.

That is partly one of the problems. We don`t need more consumer goods but scientific funding, expansion of hospitals,educational facilities,public housing,universal healthcare and stability in our jobs along full employment.

Irrelevant. Only thing that is relevant was the fact that you were objectively wrong about the stance of communists on question of racial identity politics.

>believes capitalism is a natural consequence of human evolution
>calls Marxism pseudoscience
Huh, really makes you think...

>The theory is that if you are splitting the bills with your fellow citizens it should be "more"
>also if the health care is taken out of your pay (taxed) before you get it. it should even out, you should be getting more spending money for goods since your living expense is already being taken care of.
You're not understanding what he's saying

Market medicalcare was cheaper than government ran medicalcare. Government has made medicalcare very expensive and is now using that to justify taking it over to help "pay" these absurd cost.

The idea that the medicalcare wouldn't be so damn expansive if the market handled it as it did in the past is lost on you.

We don't need government to "fix" what it has broken we need government to get out of the way.

Overall the material wealth would go up in the world, but probably not for the average person in Western-Europe/North-America (USA have a lot of poor people now though, so I am not so sure about them).

And no it is not bullshit, "edgy" (because they disagree with your worldview?) marxists implies that because classcucks like you shift the debate in that direction, when that is not really essential (proper housing, health care, education etc. are more important to me than getting new Iphones every year.

>RRRREEEEEE I HATE WORKING FOR A BOSS I WISH I HAD MORE RESOURCES TO LIVE MY LIFE
Kill yourself, if you are going to just waste my time, just state so. There will be leaders in any society, just that a leader in a classless soceity would be of the same class as the people that have chosen him to lead them.

>more autistic rambling
Again just off yourself, and at least don't pretend that you give any valid answers.

>Really hit a nerve didn't I?
How did you hit a nerve with that? It's just meaningless to waste energy replying to crap

What hits a nerve is you baiting me into replying, when you obiously are a completely brainwashed classcuck that there is little hope for other than the rope.

>We don`t need more consumer goods
At least one of you people admit that after a socialist revolution there are no new resources for you to consume and you will be in the EXACT same position you were before.

> but scientific funding, expansion of hospitals,educational facilities,public housing,universal healthcare and stability in our jobs along full employment.
You mean like a western capitalist democracy does far far better than socialist shitholes do/did?

>Only thing that is relevant was the fact that you were objectively wrong about the stance of communists on question of racial identity politics.
I wasn't even arguing that with you. You were arguing with another user and I kind of changed the subject mistakenly.

Listen here you leaf
We will have to go to communism when humanity finally reaches full peak and everything is automated,
Machines build machines that program the built machines that serve us.
Almost everything is renewable and can be 3d printed on a fly.
Robots will not take over
Because they dont have the ability to do so, the only humanoid robots will be the cute robots made for human entertainment or sexual pleasure.
Its the way of the future

>>believes capitalism is a natural consequence of human evolution
Yes, this is what the majority of scientists and general public believe. People like to own shit.

People think you people are batshit insane.

>the reason you have the emotions you do and behave the way you do is because of capitalism
You people are insane.

Yes instead they prefer income identity politics.

It's still a shit tier collectivist system that is quite literally an impossible economic system

We could just muder everyone, you know, cut out the middle steps.

Capitalist democracy at best can provide us with welfare state. That is not good enough.
Class is not an identity since it is tied to material conditions.

I love the damage control where they say they'll wait for muh late stage capitalism to finish, automation will run the world, the means of production is literally siezed by robots and the commies will triumphantly march in to take over. The worst part is they pretend that's what marx really wanted.

every time somebody ever tried it the way it can work, the capitalists chimped out

>Overall the material wealth would go up in the world
No it wouldn't and there's no reason to believe it would.

>classcucks
This is the most hilarious and asspained marxist defense mechanisms.

>proper housing, health care, education etc.
Yes, there wouldn't magically be more of THESE things after a socialist revolution either.

You know what would create more of these things? Getting the government out of the way because these are the most heavily regulated and controlled industries in the usa.

>Kill yourself,
You're a marxist. You'll probably overdose on estrogen and kill yourself anyway.

>There will be leaders in any society
There's a difference between a leader and an authoritarian dictator.
I know you wastes of life want to manipulate and control others but the rest of us don't want to be slaves, you cuck.

>completely brainwashed classcuck
LMAO this shit again.
You were completely unable to refute the argument in the OP and it REALLY upsets you.
Stay angry and wrong.

>other than the rope.
Too bad your ideology will never rise again and it's hilarious watching you people squirm.

>this economic system that has not existed for the vast majority of the time humanity has been on this earth and is barely 400 years old is the only possible way the ideal human society can be ordered because it's in our genes
Which part of the human genome encodes for private ownership of capital?

>Capitalist democracy at best can provide us with welfare state. That is not good enough.
Then why was is always far far better than socialist shitholes in this regard?

youtube.com/watch?v=U-fd-5CGHvs

This is why we must have sometype of socalism.

Wakecucks on SUICIDEWATCH after watching this.

>I love the damage control where they say they'll wait for muh late stage capitalism to finish, automation will run the world, the means of production is literally siezed by robots and the commies will triumphantly march in to take over. The worst part is they pretend that's what marx really wanted.
LOL

I LOVE this shit.

Marxists keep changing their theories when they get proven horribly wrong. Now they're talking about robots and shit lmao

It is not. There is unemployment,economic instability and general lack stability in society.

>>this economic system that has not existed for the vast majority of the time humanity has been on this earth and is barely 400 years old
That's not even true.
Markets have existed since the neolithic. Modern capitalism is just a gigantic expansion of markets.
People like to own things, people like to own their own property. Hell even apes and birds do this.

>Which part of the human genome
The vast majority of the human genome is unmapped.

>It is not. There is unemployment,economic instability and general lack stability in society.
So Venezuela?

>We will have to go to communism when humanity finally reaches full peak and everything is automated
Commie faggoys have been saying this every single time there was some major technological advancement.

The division of labor will only continue to shift into the new fields technology opens up it won't ever disappear and have some need for Socialism.

Notice how they never create their own means of production, instead need to resort to looting or theft at a gunpoint.

Well I gotta go guys, it's been fun.

If anyone wants to keep replying to these confused individuals it would be appreciated.

Is a capitalist country, yes.

Oh, you again.

Markets have existed since the neolithic. Modern capitalism is just a gigantic expansion of markets.
People like to own things, people like to own their own property. Hell even apes and birds do this.


False. Absolutely false. Historically false. Read "The Great Transformation" (again, not a Marxist, doesn't use value theory or anything like that at all). Capitalism is NOT a "gigantic" expansion of markets that always existed. There had never been before a market of labor or of land. Please, stop.

About the "but we have nothing to win from capitalists": you already answered yourself. If you think surplus doesn't exist, then you are right. Stop asking why we believe we do, because it's precisely because of surplus. So stop with your resources shit: if you think that capitalists owning a factory have a normal salary and don't get capital gains, then it doesn't make sense to keep asking why socialists believe in what they believe. There is no more CHECK MATE SOCIALISTS: surplus is the key.

Neets will rise!

Not when we can just use machines for it

>Class is not an identity since it is tied to material conditions
Of course it is to you retards because in your rhetoric you make zero distinction not acknowledgement of the fact that people are constantly moving between these "classes" throughout their lives.

You just refer to an abstract idea of "the rich" in typical Identity politics fashion.

Also as I said Socialism as an economic system is literally impossible.
See
And if you even try to cry "but Mises" to avoid addressing concrete arguments then too fucking bad you're basing your whole argument of Marx the epitome of sophistry of the last 300 years and by that standard I'll just start laughing at every fallacy and retarded statement you proceed to make which is all you deserve but unlike you I'm willing to try and entertain that you have some critical thinking skills

>Also most workers are fucking idiots that have no idea how to run a business. Workplace democracy is retarded. If you don't like working somewhere, change jobs.
Are you blind? There are worker cooperatives that function very well.

>Capitalist democracy at best can provide us with welfare state
Tell me have you ever looked at world poverty rates over the last 150 years?

We went from 150 years ago over 85% of the world being in objective poverty to today having less than 15% with several times as many people and that poverty is only being reduced and reduced the quickest in places adopting Capitalistic principles.

Of that reduction 30% of it happened just since the 80s.

I'd call that an absolute miracle in human history. Commies would call it exploitation of duh workers and Capitalism failing.

1. Yes, theoretically and logically it would. Instead of 1000 factories competing to make rubber bands, a couple of factories will supply the world with enough rubber bands. Apply this to most industry. And you just ignore that there is not unlimited resources.

And also, it's impossible to be a Capitalist if you understand Capitalist theory.

2. Not magically, but it's reasonable to think that workers with the workers' best interest in mind would focus more on public health care and education.
>Getting the government out of the way
Lolbertiarian kek

3. You are the classcuck here, bend over for minimum wage please. Lolbertarians are in boat with centrists in terms of not having any balls.

4. Fallacy, and again you are the actual cuck, unless you are rich (and anti-Communist) though - if that is the case, I am looking forward to the day you will sell us the rope we are going to hang you with.

5. But I did refute it, you being too brainwashed to see it doesn't change reality. Again, I am angry because you make me reply to your shit.

6. If mankind will not see the end of Capitalism, it will be because there is no mankind left.

"classcuck
A person living under a socio-economic system and who doesn't realize their subservient position in that system and even will actively defend it, e.g. a slave in the slave societies, a peasant in feudal societies, a wage-slave in a capitalist society. (synonymous to class traitor)"

>why are you so RETARDED HOLY SHIT
>anally devastated
>YOU MAD

Everyone who tries to seriously debate shit in this leaf-tier thread deserves to be shot.

Aren't you tired of all this pointless shitflinging? Most of you fucks don't even listen to each other, you think you know it all already and everyone who disagrees is out to get you. It's time for this place to learn to argue like adults. Fucking embarassing.

Compared to what
Socialist decry Capitalism as failing when it has a slow in growth for a year.

Socialist have endless excuses when Socialism can't even provide food or toilet paper to it's people.

Shit like this is why you deserve to be laughed at.

Oh and btw when your nation implemented so called "Scandinavian Socialism" you know what happened?
Increased unemployment lost growth and a significant leap in People on welfare.

iea.org.uk/publications/research/scandinavian-unexceptionalism-culture-markets-and-the-failure-of-third-way-soc

What communists dream about
>money is abolished
>workers take over the means of production completely
>the same exact quantity of consumer goods that was being produced under capitalism are again produced
>the working class has to work JUST AS HARD and JUST AS LONG as they did under capitalism to produce the same am

The reality
>Just few people are allowed to use money mostly ((revolution leaders)), bureucrats&friends
>Mobs mass murders factory owners and pillage their properties while ((revolution leaders)) get the best of it
>Lack of incentive results in decreasing quality and quantity of goods produced in stolen factories
>Mass murder happens due dissent and people not working as hard as ((revolution leaders)) wish, mass starvation ensues
>The system crumbles on itself, bureaucrats and ((revolution leaders)) are the only ones that profit from its end while putting most of state assets on their pockets.

>personal and private property are the same thing
ebin
Yagoda didn't kill 7-10 million people. He killed many people but the number wasn't that high.

Compared to Soviet Union.

>authoritarian dictatorship
straw argument.
It's not a religion. At least no more than any other set of political ideas is.

>Mises
>Lew Rockwell
ebin
Also, licensing codes and such are there for a reason.

Not an argument.