What are the fundamental differences between liberals and conservatives? I'm not asking for ideologies...

What are the fundamental differences between liberals and conservatives? I'm not asking for ideologies, I'm asking on an individual basis.

Conservatives
>Look for bottom-up solutions
>Value community and family
>Value rule of law
>Value equal opportunity

Liberals
>Look for top-down solutions
>Value strong central government over community
>Value social justice
>Value equal outcomes

Obviously not everyone can be placed neatly in either box and both sides are succeptable to falling for bad policy. But, what makes someone identify as one or the other? Maybe some liberals can chime in and give their opinion. Without trolling, how do you see conservatives.

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In general the left believes in equality, whether by class, wealth, race, gender, whatever.

The right believes in natural heirarchy. They believe some individuals or groups are naturally superior to other individuals or groups, and creating artificial equality disrupts the natural order of a soceity and leads to dysfuntion.

Both in recent years have been unrepentant corporate autocrats who would enslave the populace to increase the gdp if slavery wasn't banned.
If we go back to the roots of both, they're classically liberal ideologies with different resistances to new policies being enacted.

I know what each side generally believes. I'm asking what makes them believe what they do. Is it genetic?

I don't think the message put out by either side is intended to sway those with different ideologies. Meaning, MSNBC isn't going to convince conservatives they're wrong, it's going to tell it's base what it wants to hear. So, people are the way they are regardless of what they are told.

The difference is more than ideology.

I can buy that.
Conservatives can be sold on most anything if it packaged with a patriotic message. Liberals can be sold on anything if it's packaged with a message of equality and social justice.

Nah conservatives think that people are only worth the amount of effort they put in. Conservatives don't think a white man is more capable than a black man bc of their race. Both are equally capable. Doesn't mean they would both achieve identical outcomes though.

I don't think it's genetic, because in my teens/early twenties I was a radical flaming leftist. Now in my mid-to-late twenties I've swung to the far opposite end of the spectrum. People can change their ideology. Many people who voted for Obama ended up voting for Trump, and we saw solid blue states turn red. Many people saw the products of rising leftism, BLM, radical feminism, dysfunctional government, corruption, cultural decay, and became hardened against it.

Conservatives: Governing should follow the people
Liberals: People should follow the governing
Neocons: Governing should follow the business

>Now in my mid-to-late twenties I've swung to the far opposite end of the spectrum. People can change their ideology. Many people who voted for Obama ended up voting for Trump, and we saw solid blue states turn red. Many people saw the products of rising leftism, BLM, radical feminism, dysfunctional government, corruption, cultural decay, and became hardened against it.

This is what happened to me. I used to be a "flaming leftist" also... but now?

I read Arktos books and want an ethnostate.

You actually changed your beliefs or did you find that the left didn't align with what you already believed?

I think a lot of people on the left and right agree whether they know it or not. It's the way the message is given that divides people.

>individuals OR groups
>reading comprehension

Most conservatives today aren't racist, but all believe that some individuals are more capable, harder working or smarter than others, and that's why some make it to the top, and others wallow at the bottom.

It's a byproduct of watching everything awesome about our societies destroyed but overly humanitarian retards in power doing things like letting rapists and murderers get the best of this country.

A lot of people were fooled by "hope and change" but once they realized it did nothing but progress the liberal agenda most people were like "that's not what you promised....

Either way I want a motherfucking wall and dedicated border patrol service. Dismantle the DEA and use their funding to help bolster border protection.

DEA is a defunct Nixon era branch that doesn't do its job anymore.

Liberals: People should follow the governing

Liberals only feel this way if the government they want is in power. Liberals want a government that regulates equality. Conservatives, want a government that regulates as little as possible.

What swung me to the right was getting mugged by a nigger I was hanging out with, who I thought was my friend. I realized no white person would have done this. Niggers are fundamentally different from whites.

>not posting the full pic

Nice trips.

When it comes down to it I'd say there are two main differences.

Conservatives, in general, value personally responsibility that is taking responsibility for yourself and your own actions "the buck stops here". The other is freedom/liberty. The conservatives in general value liberty above most other things.


Leftists on the other hand despise personally responsibility, everything is always someone else's fault or someone else will fix it. They need some entity higher than themselves (the government) because of massive inferiority complexes. And they flat out hate freedom. The left is fanatically authoritarian, they are always calling on a higher power, be it citing scientific articles (as if that means jack shit (which I say as an actual scientist)) or telling other people what is or isn't allowed. That's rayciss or that's not allowed you can't do that! I'm telling my mommy/the cops/the government!!! etc.

conservative black people and gays aren't real black people or real gays

One of the better appeals to "big" government is the scientific. We know about the existence of much larger force than we can individually reckon with, even if we're in that field of study, let alone if we're not.

This means that governing from the hip, i.e. macro policies made with "everyday common sense" and lowest common denominator thinking becomes a threat to self and in-group. I would say USA and Canada's last federal election showed this political immaturity.

In Toronto, they used to have a statue of Winston Churchill in the front of City hall (now it's at the back). He remarked that the best argument against democracy was a short conversation with the average voter. I think in our age of advanced technology, high energy, and grave potential for great cataclysm, the definition of "as small as possible" must begin to include computers in on some of our decision making processes, and a lot more automation at the very least. I don't see which other way the successful civilization goes...

One is Jews one is super Jews

youtu.be/nV2EbTqi0jE

interdasting theory

Conservatives place responsibility on the individual. Any success or failures is the result of that person's actions

Liberals place responsibility on society. Any success or failures are a result of the environment around them (white privilege, racism, feminism, etc).

That's the best I can do, and I believe in a nutshell it's the most accurate.

I agree, liberals do tend to tend to appeal to higher authorities, whether government or academic. Problem is, they seek the authority that appeals to what they want to hear. As if, what we know today will always be the truth. I guess I'm saying that they seek facts that are politically correct. Don't get me wrong, conservatives can be dogmatic as well, but you conservatives don't try to punish or silence dissenting views. At least not in the west.

This doesn't factor in forces larger than them which influence their opinions. I would think a conservative would want to do this.

I pretty much repeated this guy. Sorry, didn't read the thread.

lol didn't look, assumed you were same guy

both groups are white supremacist, liberals and conservatives just can't seem to agree on how to dominate blacks.

liberals want to subjugate us to their authority, while we depend solely on them for resources--feeding their savior complex. while conservatives just want to outright genocide us and be done with it.

very nuanced view of things, there.

DID YOU CONTRAST SOCIAL JUSTICE AND RULE OF LAW? :DDDDDDDD

No, we leftists believe that everything is ultimately the person's own fault, but people have different starting positions. There is for example a higher threshold for a poor person to start university studies than for a rich person, if there is fees in universities, and thus college should be free. However, whether you have a college degree or not depends ultimately on you.

>what is a strawman?

Why didn't you just make your list
Conservative
>Stuff I like
Liberal
>Stuff I don't like

>Actually believing this

Conservatives
>Seek to allow school choice for inner city blacks
>Promote a strong family unit by weakening the welfare state
>Curb low wage immigrants from taking jobs from US citizens

All of which would promote an upwardly mobile black community.

Conservatives also
>Seek to stop abortion which has ended nearly 50,000,000 black pregnancies (estimated)

I mean, it's clear to me that the left needs the black population to be in perpetual disarray. They need the problems so they can promise solutions.

I'm not trying to make a value judgment, I'm just trying to understand what makes people fall into one side or the other. If you're a liberal, tell me where I'm wrong.

Sure, why not?

>Conservatives
>>Look for bottom-up solutions
>Liberals
>>Look for top-down solutions

What do you mean by this

>Conservatives, want a government that regulates as little as possible.

Not at all, they want the government to regulate the things they agree with. See abortion rights, taxes, religion, energy policy

nothing you are both part of the white supremacist society and you all benefit from racism/white supremacy

>I'm just trying to understand what makes people fall into one side or the other.
Guy, if that were even half true? You wouldn't be doing it on Sup Forums

But here:
>Look for bottom-up solutions
Nonsense. Conservatives look for solutions to individual concerns and don't care about broader solutions. "I want this so I, personally, should be able to have it" is not a "bottom-up" solution. It's a "I want, so I should have" solution to one problem that then causes countless problems for others that conservatives just don't give a shit about.

>Look for top-down solutions
Nonsense. Liberals look to create space in which bottom-up solutions can exist by limiting the negative impact we can have on each other.

Environmental policy is the best place to see an example of this. Conservatives believe "My land, my decision." This isn't a bottom-up solution. It's a "fuck everyone but me," non-solution. Liberals believe "regulate the shit out of it because the rest of us live here, too, and it's not 'your' land."

>Value community and family
Nonsense. Conservatives value a narrow and specific interpretation of how they believe those things should be defined and think anyone else who defines them differently is an inherently evil person who must be stopped.

>Value strong central government over community
Also nonsense. Liberals believe that a strong government is important because it allows people to form communities freely, rather than by enforcing cultural norms on people to invent communities.

>Value rule of law
>Value social justice

Both nonsense. When liberals vote differently on laws, both are demonstrating value for the rule of law and a sense of social justice.

>Value equal opportunity
>Value equal outcomes

Both nonsense. Those are not separate things. Liberals and conservatives disagree along a spectrum between the two, which varies over different topics. Those statements are so general as to be meaningless.

>Religion
How? The government shouldn't be involved in religion.
>Taxes
That's my point. Conservatives want the government to take less in taxes, thus smaller government with less power.
>Energy policy
Huh? Again, that's my point.
>Abortion rights
They don't want their tax money funding abortion.

You kind of proved my whole point

just watch this video and fuck off

youtube.com/watch?v=W8N3FF_3KvU

Lol. Do conservatives want to ban same-sex marriage because it's funded by the government?

You accused me of stawmanning and then did just that. Basically you have all reasons conservatives suck while liberals are good. That's not what I did, I just gave ideologies as best as I could see. You painted conservatives as the charactature you want them to be.

They see it as a states' rights issue for the most part.

I've seen that vid.

You understand that, in the USA, zero federal funds do or ever have gone to abortion, right? The laws are extraordinarily strict, and the accounting tediously precise. The anti-abortion laws being proposed around the USA have nothing to do with tax dollars.

Yeah, but the difference is that I'm not pretending to be unbiased. You set up easy claims to knock down then attributed them to liberals.

I simply told you why I think you're a scumbag. That's not a strawman--it's just an insult.

conservatives have been propagandized and know nothing about economics or science

liberals have been propagandized and know nothing about human nature

In a nutshell. This is why conservatives govern worse, they things they're wrong about are more directly relevant to governing.

This is a pretty good video

youtube.com/watch?v=iPIOAoTtGtU

there are 3 others like that I believe. Watch them too.

Religion: conservatives want their interpretation of Christianity to be the law of the land. That's why they want to ban abortion, not because of taxes but because it goes against their beliefs. Otherwise it's a personal freedom that you claim they champion but really want to regulate.

Taxes: taxes have gone up under every conservative administration. It's pandering when they say they want to lower them, history doesn't follow suit.

Energy: they don't want to help new businesses and create jobs and energy independence, they want to keep subsidizing billion dollar oil and coal industry.

Abortion: your tax dollars don't currently fund abortions and your statement my point. Conservatives just parrot what they're told and don't actually look into the the reason for the beliefs.

I recently read The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt. I'd recommend it. His hypothesis is that there are political 'tastebuds' such as (fairness, sanctity, authority, kindness, etc). He found that liberals only respond to two tastebuds but conservatives valued all approx equally.

I was trying to be unbiased. I wasn't making a value judgement on either side. You didn't even present an argument as to why I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, as a liberal, feel free to tell me why.

That wasn't even the point, though. I'm asking what makes someone a liberal or a conservative, separate from ideology. Why does someone believe what they do, not what the beliefs are themselves.

>He found that
I like how you chose to use the word "found" as if the claims he made were factual. The guy writes in circles, claiming to be a psychologists so that his work doesn't have to stand up to the rigors of logic and a "moral psychologist" so that his work doesn't have to stand up to the rigors of psychology.

>You didn't even present an argument as to why I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, as a liberal, feel free to tell me why.
Actually I did. The environmental policy distinction is a perfect example of the manner in which conservatives give fuck-all about "bottom-up" solutions and, in fact, don't care about solutions for anyone else at all, and are essentially just greedy, hungry babies who throw fits when they don't, instantly, get exactly what they want. While liberals want policies that consider more than just their own self-interest in the narrowest possible sense.

That's something that I haven't actually ever understood about USA. In other countries laws such as the abortion law and same-sex marriage law are passed in the legislature instead of just deciding that a constitution from 1776 makes suddenly allowing same-sex marriage mandatory in 2015. But in each state legislature, aren't the conservatives opposed to same-sex marriage, right?

>liberals only respond to two tastebuds but conservatives valued all approx equally.
Believing shit like this (and there's plenty on both sides) is a sure sign you're a partisan moron

That's because your countries aren't founded on the same, basic principles of equality and freedom that the USA is. If everyone is free and equal, then it might take us some time but eventually we figure out that that has to apply to marriage law and a woman's body, too.

We don't need a legislature to pass new laws to legalize these things. We just need to reflect on the excellent rights and laws we already have, then realize that they already apply.

> I'm asking what makes someone a liberal or a conservative, separate from ideology.

The liberals I know tend to be more open to new things than the conservatives I know. The liberals for example consume more art and more various art than conservatives.

>
So you've read it then. If so you would know that about his word puzzles (hypothetical 'victimless' situations involving incest, cannibalism, etc). He asked libs/conservatives and found exactly what everyone knows if they've ever run similar hypotheticals past leftists.

I don't find his conclusions a far stretch.

I don't find his conclusions published in peer-reviewed journals. Because he's neither a philosopher who abides by the rules of logic nor a psychologist who abides by the rigors of peer review.

Because he's a hack whose writing is worthless.

(You)
>Religion: conservatives want their interpretation of Christianity to be the law of the land.

By valuing the 1st amendment?

>Taxes: taxes have gone up under every conservative administration.

I never claimed that everyone fits neatly into a box and I said earlier that both sides are duped into following policies that they don't agree with.

Energy: they don't want to help new businesses and create jobs and energy independence, they want to keep subsidizing billion dollar oil and coal industry.

Both sides are guilty of subsidizing big business. But that isn't my point.

>Abortion: your tax dollars don't currently fund abortions and your statement my point.

Federal funding goes to Planned Parenthood. Even if not directly, federal money supports abortion. But, I'm not arguing this, hell, I'm not even necessarily anti-abortion.

Conservatives just parrot what they're told and don't actually look into the the reason for the beliefs.

You think this is only a problem on the right?

I said liberals value top down solutions. How was I wrong?

I find that people who are really driven, and strived to be the best at something... whether it's athletic, intellectuall, or whatever, they're usually conservative. They know the value of hard work, they know that focused effort leads to success, so they have no sympathy for people who just want to lay around and have resources redistributed for their own gain.

The Constitution is a document limiting the federal government's power. It assumes rights are innate and that the government can't infringe.

The debate about what constitutes innate rights is a separate debate.

>Even if not directly, federal money supports abortion.
Incorrect. You should try to educate yourself. I know the idea of learning about something before you decide what you believe regarding it is antithetical to your conservative values. But you might give it a shot for fun.

>You think this is only a problem on the right?
In the USA? Absolutely. The left doesn't elect our ultra-reactionaries. The right is the side, in the USA, with purity tests regarding evolution and global warming that require their candidates to always and forever ignore facts and reality.

If you want to know how you got to be so wrong, you're gonna have to ask someone who knows you better than I do.

But if you're asking how it is wrong to propose that liberals value top-down solutions? Pick an issue and examine it. Discover that your claim isn't true.

We've been talking about abortion in this thread, so let's take that one. Liberals: woman decideds. Conservatives: government prevents women from deciding. You tell me which group is espousing a top-down "solution." Unanimity and conformity are staples of conservativism--not liberalism.

Liberals have become the monster they dispised.
Tolkien mimic'd the ringwraiths in lord of the rings to soulless bureaucrats who cannot see beyond the fact that they're simply manipulated into tools of the system they cling to.
Sort of like how liberals think, just a cog in the zog machine.

Can happen to anyone, claiming if you're this or that i.e. Conservatist, Liberal, Communist, atheist, christian, muslim, pacifist, hedonist, it's all institutionalized bullshit, it's all a delusion, it's a ll and it's all irrelevant.

Why believe in this crap when all you need to do is think, be skeptical before making choices, work and provide for your family while maintaining a clean and safe environment.

>You think this is only a problem on the right?
In the USA? Absolutely. The left doesn't elect our ultra-reactionaries. The right is the side, in the USA, with purity tests regarding evolution and global warming that require their candidates to always and forever ignore facts and reality.

You're delusional. There's far more dissent on the right than the left. There are a lot of conservatives who believe in global warming and evolution.


>We've been talking about abortion in this thread, so let's take that one. Liberals: woman decideds. Conservatives: government prevents women from deciding. You tell me which group is espousing a top-down "solution." Unanimity and conformity are staples of conservativism--not liberalism.

Again, conservatives don't all want to outlaw abortion. Some do, some see it as a state issue, some don't care at all.

conservatives are risk vs reward. they're willing to try and make something of themselves and succeed even if they might fail in the attempt

liberals want safety net and are motivated primarily by fear in everything they do

liberals are brainwashed cucks
conservatives are brainwashed christfags

>There are a lot of conservatives who believe in global warming and evolution.
Not in office, there aren't.

You need to try dealing more in facts, friend.

>Again, conservatives don't all want to outlaw abortion. Some do, some see it as a state issue, some don't care at all.
The ones you elect do, so what the rest want doesn't really matter, in a Republic, until you change the way that you vote.

>>There are a lot of conservatives who believe in global warming and evolution.
>Not in office, there aren't.

The issue isn't whether climate change is occurring, it's the level of impact humans are having. This is a separate discussion altogether though. I was asking, what makes one hold conservative or liberal values. You don't seem to be following.

>You need to try dealing more in facts, friend.
>>Again, conservatives don't all want to outlaw abortion. Some do, some see it as a state issue, some don't care at all.
>The ones you elect do, so what the rest want doesn't really matter, in a Republic, until you change the way that you vote.

Most people aren't single issue voters. Things are a little more complex than black or white.

Read it yourself, his word games were interesting. And if you've ever done them IRL you'd known it is precisely how liberals respond to them

Triggered by common sense. That's OK. No one cares about your feelings.