Can you tell what exactly is wrong with socialism? You mention it so much that I assume you can back it up

Can you tell what exactly is wrong with socialism? You mention it so much that I assume you can back it up.

Pro tip: Don't mention modern liberalism. This thread is about socialism, not liberal centrism.

Other urls found in this thread:

ted.com/talks/hans_and_ola_rosling_how_not_to_be_ignorant_about_the_world
mises.org/library/socialism-economic-and-sociological-analysis
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

What do the Jewish bankers and the globalist fear most?

NATIONAL SOCIALISM


The Jewish Banking Mafia:
Jew - Rothschild Banks of London
Jew - Rothschild Banks of Berlin
Jew - Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris
Jew - Israel Moses Sieff Banks of Italy
Jew - Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Germany
Jew - Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
Jew - Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
Jew - Lehman Brothers Bank of New York
Jew - Goldman Sachs (Obamas biggest corporate donor in 2008/2012) CEO Lloyd Blankfein
Jew - The Federal Reserve Chairwoman Janet Yelen (before, Ben Shalom Bernanke and Alan Greenspan) including top shareholders Goldman Sachs (Jewish), J.P. Morgan Chase (Jewish) and the Rothschilds banking cartel (Jewish)
Jew - Citigroup Chairman Stanford Weil and Co Chief Executive Robert Diamond
Jew - Wells Fargo Chairman John Stumpf
Jew - Bank of America Chief Executive Charles Noski
Jew - Barclays Chief Executive Robert Diamond
Jew - J.P. Morgan Chase Chairman and Chief Executive Jamie Diamond
Jew - Morgan Stanley President and Chief Executive James Gorman
Jew - USB AG Chief Executive Oswal Gurbel
Jew - CFTC Chariman Gary G. Gensler
Jew - SEC Chariwoman Mary Schapiro
Jew - NFA President Daniel Roth
Jew - FINRA Chairman Richard Ketchum
Jew - NYSE Euronext President Duncan Niederauer
Jew - NASDAQ OMZ Group Chief Executive Robert Greifield

Claims it will solve a country's problems by redistributing the wealth, but what that means is government takes the wealth and distributes it as it sees fit. So basically they can give everyone the bare minimum while hoarding the rest of it and tell you it was just. And you can't do anything about it because you have no wealth to resist them because you let them take it away. Only violence or democratic processes can remove them, but by the time you fulfill socialist policies too many people depend on government to exist

Isn't this exactly what happens with capitalism? The richest hoard the money for themselves and the rest of the population is dependant on them. Also, socialism requires the industry to be collectively owned. It's of course naive to say there wouldn't be a government like structure, but all wealth would tecnically be owned by all.

>Yo everyone is going to get basically the same stuff so its all fair
>But you should continue your work as an engineer/doctor/scientist/etc even though you could make the same driving a fork lift

>yo everyone is not going to get the same amount of money
>but you should continue your work as a cleaner/factory worker/driver etc. even though you can only barely feed yourself with the wage

You should not have children if you cannot afford them.

>doctors, professors, and inventors do it for money

>le just don't le have le kids meme
People are already not having kids because it's too expensive to take care of them.

>but you should continue your work as a cleaner/factory worker/driver etc. even though you can only barely feed yourself with the wage
Literally no capitalist has ever said this. The whole idea is that you should try something else to better your station. If driving a forklift aint working, do something else. not a hard concept

>thinking money isn't a huge motivator
I work as an engineer currently, and if you think id keep doing it if i could make the same washing windows or something, you're high as fuck

What point are you trying to make? Only doctors/inventors/scientists etc. should have children according to this. Furthermore, what makes the work of a scientist more important than a factory worker's? I would rather have a society without the former than without the latter.

Yeah bro, I'm sure I'll enjoy spending my 200 thousand dollar education to enrich niggers in the inner city for free.

You see why people keep calling you burger flippers as a meme? Because you are that transparent.

>I would rather have a society without the former than without the latter.
I'm just going to assume you're being retarded on purpose from here on out

in my country socialism is used improperly. We build government owned industry with tax dollars and when some dip shit wants to balance the budget they sell the company to some private dick head who charges much more for a service the Canadian People provided

no, capitalism is proven succesful
successful socialism is still just a theory
it is proven taht it kills millions and steals the wealth of the people

>Literally no capitalist has ever said this. The whole idea is that you should try something else to better your station. If driving a forklift aint working, do something else. not a hard concept

What you're saying here is that nobody is forbidden to get a more "valuable" job, and thus they can. This is not true. Even if I have permission to do something, I need the means to do it (and the means come from the state, which means that the state "distributes wealth/means how it sees fit" like an earlier user said). I would like to see you justify throwing money at the floor and allowing anyone to grab them as a good distributing method.

>a nation that is x did y, therefore x does y
And stealing exists only if you recognize the concept of private property

>and the means come from the state
the fuck are you on about? How is this the case?

Markets don't work when pricing is set arbitrarily independent of supply and demand. When the value of things is no longer tied directly to their scarcity and how many people actually want them, the efficient distribution of resources becomes impossible.

This has nothing to do with morality, culture, the nature of mankind, or whatever other feel-good bullshit socialists always talk about to make their shallow slogans sound really nice. The numbers don't work out.

Socialism is an ideal that sounds good on paper but doesn't work in the real world because a group of leaders arbitrarily making economic decisions, no matter how smart or clever, ultimately does not have the same information gathering and distribution capability of billions of individuals in a capitalist economy working in real time. In socialism you willing sacrifice the wisdom, skills, and talent of millions in favor of a very small group that proclaim themselves smarter and more capable of making such decisions.

Would you rather have 100 brains or 1,000,000,000 brains making decisions? Which of these would be more efficient? You might say 100 brains would come to a consensus more easily, but the efficiency relies on a true consensus always being in flux. This is why prices are always shifting and changing. Not even a soda at your local fast food restaurant stays the same price forever. Will your perfect socialist society be sure to keep tabs on the cost of manufacturing the syrup that goes into soda? No, of course not.

Capitalism is not a perfect system; it's the best of many that have been tried. It brings the greatest amount of prosperity to the largest number of people possible. Does it make everyone equal? No. Does it make everyone rich? No. But capitalism never promised these things in the first place, because these ideas are pipe dreams until we have Star-Trek level technology where we can essentially make enough STUFF that everyone can have as much of everything as they want.

the economy is not a zero sum game. more wealth can be produced in capitalism. socialism restricts individual freedoms. no one is forcing you to give your wealth to the rich.

What do you mean you don't have the means to do it? Financial Aid is a thing that exists, scholarships is a thing that exists, free apprenticeships is a thing that exists. You're just a lazy fuck asking for free gibsmedats by forcing doctors and engineers to work for the same wages as plebs.

>And stealing exists only if you recognize the concept of private property

yeah i do thats a fundamental tenant of a successful society ,

its stealing, the gov dosent have a right to it because it thinks it does based off of a unproven theory

what if a socialist dictator created a gay military unit and part of their well being was they got to have sex with you whenever they wanted,
would you agree its
1.not your ass there no such thing as private ownership
2.its for the good of all of society ,they need to have sex with you to keep us safe

Because your property is yours only because the state allows you to have it. This why we have property laws. Everything you own is something owned by the state which it allows you to use (as long as you obey the law)

This is actually a good response. There are some things I could argue against, but those would go against socialism as well. I'm surprised a Sup Forumsack did this.

Finamcial aids and scholarsips need to be earned. The method to earning them is the same as gaining wealth, everyone is ALLOWED to do it (meaning they might not be able to)

There is a difference between you and your property.

Got to go for a while now. Will be back in about 30 mins if the thread is still up.

Then what the fuck are you still doing here if you can't argue against it? We know where the fuck you come from. How do you expect any reasonable discussion when we know you're raiding us for kicks? No fucking respect. If anyone here wanted discussion we would go where you come from.

>Because your property is yours only because the state allows you to have it. This why we have property laws. Everything you own is something owned by the state which it allows you to use (as long as you obey the law)
>oh mr government, may I please have a car?
>mr government, i would like a house, is it ok with you if i have one?
>oh please mr government, give me your guidance, you are great and all powerful and all knowing
holy fuck, is this really what eurofags believe? Jesus H Christ, no wonder you guys are in the shape you are now. I genuinely feel bad for you.

It doesn't work

alright comrade

but think about the joys and benefits of servicing the army
give up your ass
be a true patriot !

You can grow out of socialism, even Mussolini was a socialist in the beginning

It's not me, it's Mises. Well, tempered with my own experience and put in my own words.

The world is getting better, not worse. I.e., we don't need to switch systems. People just don't know this. Most people in the first-world think everything is awful because they have the time and luxury to complain and watch disasters unfold live on the nightly news.

At the core of physical science is the thought that ultimately, everything can be broken down into units of information. Physics is the study of the exchange of information between things that can absorb and release information.

In light of this, capitalism is a higher physical ideal than socialism. You might have heard about technologies that mimic animals and biological systems to achieve unique effects. While not intentional, capitalism more closely follows some fundamental, underlying laws than socialism, and is therefore more efficient.

THAT is my own opinion, not Mises, and I have no proof of it, but it does seem intuitive.

How not to be ignorant about the world:

ted.com/talks/hans_and_ola_rosling_how_not_to_be_ignorant_about_the_world

The greatest breakdown and criticism of socialism to date:

mises.org/library/socialism-economic-and-sociological-analysis

Can't get socialism out of pathological individualism. You don't even care about your parents enough to consider them losing their home and you expect your neighbour to work at his best on your behalf? We cant all get along now, how would we count on each other to keep anything running? Seriously, you're going to count on the nafri to keep you fed and medicated and housed and warm? Be honest, do you trust the hordes to keep the water running? Would you live in a commune with 20 african men and count on them to keep the place going? Why dont you do an experiment and see how long you last.

And as for this collective ownership, how would that be determined? It's not like we are rising up to take charge of the same factory. And how do decisions get made? How do we stop bad business decisions happening if everyone has a say? We use the progressive stack, right? So we get the retarded tranny muslim to decide for us when they want to kill us. Someone has to make decisions so automatiallly you have a heirarchy and the more desperate people get the more maniacal and oppressive those in charge will become. And that will not be you

As soon as this gets implemented it falls apart. And then all the property and business that got seized gets distributed amongst the elites, who will preserve their positions of absolute power. You like to think being a middle class agitator you will be among those sharing the spoils but you wont, it will all go to the people who run us now.

The only way out of your mess is to think your way out and start a business and succeed.

There is nothing wrong with not being stabbed to death because no-one has food and the government doesn't have any means with which to help. The problems arise when socialism is taken too far, and individual freedoms are heavily restricted and the economy becomes centralized as that sentences a country to decades of poverty. Redistribution of wealth is nothing more than government sanctioned stealing. I don't need the government to help me distribute wealth in society because I have worked for it and not someone else. All it takes is personal responsibility, and it's generally crybabies that are lacking it that complain that the rich are too rich, and that life is too hard.

They do.

What incentive does anyone have to do those things otherwise? Literally why would anyone willingly spend their life learning a technical specialty for no material benefit?

Are you really so naive as to think that you'd have people lining up ready to sacrifice so much time and effort in the name of altruism? Don't be retarded. Without competition and a chance for failure, nobody will push themselves to do more than the bare minimum, and society won't benefit from the full extent of people's talents.

How do you guys get around this?