If the Germans had won at stalingrad would they have won the war?

If the Germans had won at stalingrad would they have won the war?

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No, American support of the commie bastards was too strong.

The critical mistakes were Dunkirk, then not getting Spain to join up and attacking Gibraltar and not committing more to taking most of Africa and the Middle East before the attack on the Soviet Union.

During Stalingrad things have long been lost.

no.

The point of taking stalingrad was to secure the flank for the army group advancing into the caucuses. If they would have by some miracle captured the oil fields at Baku (Azerbaijan) which was the main objective they still wouldve been fucked. The soviets wouldve destroyed the oil fields, they wouldve been in bomber range and the germans wouldve been horribly overextended.

Blau was doomed from the start as it wasnt a knockout blow to the soviets when the war needed to be over by 1943 considering how BT
FO the japs and italians were

Stalingrad wasn't even strategically valuable and both sides poured more resources into it than necessary.

Barbarossa would have worked fine if it had proceeded as scheduled instead of being delayed to save Italy from their own incompetence.
It might have still been salvaged if Guderian had been allowed to run wild instead of being recalled from Moscow's doorstep.

Japan not attacking Murrica could have won the war.

They did win, they are poised under the antarctic and control everything that goes on on Earth

>instead of being delayed to save Italy from their own incompetence.
What a fucking meme, barbarossa was delayed because of spring floods in pooland not because of afrika korps and invasion of crete, which used troops that were not assigned to the invasion of russia anyway

You dont mess with the balkans, it wasnt incompetence it was the greeks free spirit who delayed barbarossa
With 100k men they delayed for 2 months even when the german army came they still fought as if it was the persian landings again

No.

Hitler would have blown his brains out after Stalingrad under the sheer weight of Stalin's revolutionary ideology, which is when Adolf would have realized that he did everything wrong.

Well it did give control over the volga

No, any delay caused in Russia was useless ever since the US joined the war. Any Axis country that manages to delay defeat untill 1945 gets nuked, simple as that.

The only winning move would have been not to invade the Soviet Union - which would have caused the Soviet Union to invade. Which makes the only winning move not sharing a border with the Soviet Union - so not invading Poland.

Basically, the only thing Germany could've done to ''win'' WW2 is not to start it, let Russia invade, hopefully get France and Britain on their side, and remove commie.

Dunkirk was a tactical error, not a strategic one.

Spain would never have joined with the Civil War just having ended.

This, this, and only this (or Germany not allying with japan in the first place).

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>Dunkirk was a tactical error, not a strategic one.
>Spain would never have joined with the Civil War just having ended.
If Germany had said "either you join up or we invade", Franco would have joined up and helped to invade Gibraltar. Gibraltar was key to the North Africa campaign and to secure Africa and the Middle East generally.

Only with those areas under German control could a two-directional attack (via Iran and via Poland) have worked and killed the Soviets early on in the campaign.

No

No. Once the US got involved it was over. By 1943 the US had a GDP greater than Germany, Japan and the USSR all put together

No. The Jews had an unlimited amount of $.

>$ wins wars, not manpower

What is the atomic bomb for 6 gorrilion, Alex?

No, it was too late. Invading Poland was Hitler's biggest mistake.

Bullshit. Barbarossa could not work. Not even with one extra month, AND without the august stop phase.

There's only so much troops can go outstretching their supply lines, aside of the two fuckups (italy's and the august pause).
Should have backed off in november, and kept much closer to their lines during winter.

should of waited to develop nukes desu

germany just didnt have enough menpower to sustain the war and the industrial capacity was just a joke compared to the us. stalingrad was a catastrophe, but not the deciding point.

Franco would have just sided with Britain.
Franco hated Hitler due to hitler being autistic.

The only way Germany could have defeated the USSR was not per se through Spain and Gibraltar, but by having the US at the very least stay neutral, and UK and France on their side. This means waiting, not invading Poland, not starting this whole shebang, untill around 1943 when Stalin decides he's got enough troops to pull off some Euro conquest.

Germany was well behind in development, thanks to so idealogical hiccups. I doubt they could develop them faster than the Soviets, and have something ready before 1950.

Franco was a fucking retard.

how was it a mistake? The very purpose of the NS regime was expansionism.

b-but I thought Hitler made Germany an economic power house?

I thought the free market was bad?

How Germany could have won the war from 1939.

>Support China rather than Japan
>Attack the Brits at Dunkirk
>Invade North Africa, but don't get involved in Italy's shenanigans, let them get BTFO by Greece and Yugoslavia.
>Capture the Suez Canal
>Capture Gibraltar: Either get Franco's Spain to do it or do it yourself.
>Capture Malta: Send the Italians as cannon fodder then finish us off yourself.
>With the Mediterranean secured, you can now attack the USSR without fear of Italy getting invaded.
>If it's too late in 1941 by this point, attack in spring 1942
>USA fighting Japan? Who cares?
>Steamroll Soviets with 90% of the Wehrmacht and take Moscow
>War is basically won by this point. UK can't do shit and even if USA joins in after dealing with Japan they would have a hard time doing a D-Day against proper resistance

Winning after Stalingrad, however, was impossible, even if Germany won. Best to look for a peace settlement at that point.

The US had a population of 135 million and was completely untouched by the conflict (with the exception of Pearl Harbor of course). They could put all of those citizens to work in the war machine, and they did. Much easier to produce tanks and planes when your country doesn't need to worry about advancing enemy forces or supply lines getting bombed. Getting the US involved was just sheer retardation on the Japs part, there was absolutely no winning scenario. They didn't understand how powerful the US war machine could be.

Because it triggered France and the UK, which would have been valuable allies against the inevitable Soviet invasion. Also, it mostly solidifed American Lendlease aid to the Soviets, which was, for the most part, the thing that got them to win.

No Lendlease, no UK/France Allies, and the USSR would've crumbled under German assault.

He did though - he made Germany a bigger economy in 1939 than the UK and USSR combined. In terms of raw GDP, the Axis were well ahead of the Allies sans USA.

It's just that the US, after WW1, is such an economic powerhouse that they could've taken either side, Allies or Axis, as a third faction in WW2, and won.

>How Germany could have won the war from 1939.
Let me fix that for you.

>Don't invade Poland
>Don't ally with Japan
>Let the Soviets come
>Crush them under the combined Allied boot
>???
>No more commies

Sooo?? Expanisonism was the mistake. If he hadn't invaded Poland Stalin would have started a huge expansion in the 1940s forcing a war between the USSR and (((Britannia))). Then Hitler could have joined and do like the USSR did with Europe after WW2 and create a huge ammount of puppets (Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, Russia,...). Then a Cold War between the (((Allies))) and the Axis would have happened with Axis' victory (natsoc was better than communism and capitalism economicly and Germany had brilliant scientists)

to be fair they probably had no clue

>Don't wanting to submit to Germany who hate you for being non-Aryan is being a retard

nope

american probably would have dropped bombs on germany, without a nuclear deterrent germany would have probably been forced to sign a peace deal that anally fucked them

the point is it was no mistake, he did it on purpose. There is no NS without expansion into other European countries. Stalin had no plans to invade Western Europe, he purged the Red Army, never heard of the Great Purge?

Nukes

It was over at that point.

wasn't rather NS as such a mistake? The whole program was set up to conquer land in the East.

Indeed.
Durruti DID NOTHING WRONG.
Primo de rivera was a gift to spain.

THEY BOTH DIED FOR THE JEWISH KABALAH, OPEN YOUR EYES.

the entire war was meaningless in the end, germany now controls europe without firing a single bullet.

russia has been reduced to the bread lines again, due to corruption and lack of innovation.

japan and america are basically the world leaders in everything tech

korea is americas bitch because we divide and conquer with the north

germany could have just avoided war, and built volkswagons and would have taken over economically.

but you know every time line is a little different, so perhaps that's what happened

Wtf has the Great Purge with not wanting to invade Europe? There is NS without expanisonism in Europe and it resulted into Germany from a dump to a superpower in 6 years. All the claims Hitler pushed weren't needed to do that (Austria was justified but Czechslovakia unnecessary).

>Germany hating non-Aryans
Another impressive case of indoctrination here.

>Spain would never have joined with the Civil War just having ended.

That's where you are wrong. Thanks to the resistance movement, Spain was fed wrong info about Hitlers confidence regarding the war. As a result, they did not join but they would have joined given the correct report. This was said by the then Spanish Foreign minister

"Berlin sent Canaris to negotiate the alliance
because of his good relations with prominent Spaniards. In collusion with
Weizsäcker, however, he accomplished the opposite by privately informing
Franco that Germany’s position was desperate, with almost no hope of
winning the war. He advised his host to keep Spain neutral, reassuring him
that Hitler would not send troops into Spain to force Madrid’s cooperation.
Had Canaris persuaded Franco to support the Reich, “It’s more than
possible that such a decision by Spain at this moment would have meant
the end of the war,” wrote Spanish Foreign Minister Serrano Sũner.33"

From Hitler's Revolution by Tedor p. 298

and 33: Mein Vater Joachim von Ribbentrop, p. 289

The "Weizsäcker" guy was the highest ranking member of the anti Nazi resistance movement. They fucked up a lot. Even removing all the traitors could have meant a win for the Germans, better eastern front, Spain would have joined and D-Day crushed with ease.

>hur hur Hitler actually like Spanish, Hitler was progressive
You need to stop reading Stormfront propaganda.

If Germany hadn't allied Japan, then the US wouldn't have declared war on Germany, even after Pearl Harbor.

>Stalin had no plans to invade Western Europe
Go read up a bit:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_offensive_plans_controversy

There is a lot of debate about it, but Stalin had the position and material to invade Western Europe.

All the Great Purge did was made him ineffective against the premature German counterstrike.

NS might have been an ideology that drove them to make the mistakes they made - violent expansionism. However, they could very well have obtained the same expansion they wanted by waiting untill the Soviets made themselves the Big Bad, and then leading the charge. Post war, the Soviets got a lot of land that could've been German.

Remember, Hitler vastly expanded his country by not firing a single bullet (Anschluss and Czechoslovakia). Continuing this would've meant no French, Uk or US intervention, exactly untill the Soviets get uppity, and then the Allies would be on the German side.

>Hitler hated the country/people he supported in the civil war

Are you retared?

>Wtf has the Great Purge with not wanting to invade Europe?

It was the elimination of the expansionist elites which wanted to revolutionize Europe. Stalin pursued a policy of socialism in one country and the restoration of Russia in its pre-WW1 borders.

>There is NS without expanisonism in Europe and it resulted into Germany from a dump to a superpower in 6 years.

You are delusional, the whole military spending had no other purpose than conquest.

>All the claims Hitler pushed weren't needed to do that (Austria was justified but Czechslovakia unnecessary).

the gold reserves in both the Austrian and Czech central banks were badly needed by the NS regiem rapidly running out of cash, Portugal, Spain and Turkey would not accept Reichsmark paper bills for their ore deliveries...

>then the US wouldn't have declared war on Germany,

It wasn't the US that declared war...

>Stalin had no plans to invade Western Europe
You answered most of it already. To add further, people should read "The Chief Culprit" by Suvorov. It is laughable to say Stalin was not preparing for invasion...

Hitler support them only because he need alliance.

If he would have won the war he would have consume the whole Western Europe, including Spain. Don't be so deluded

>Stalingrad wasn't even strategically valuable

>You are delusional, the whole military spending had no other purpose than conquest.

With that logic, everyone else did the same. The rearmament race was started again in 1934 and the Nazis joined last. Only in 1938 the costs rivaled/became more than that of Britain, not reaching USSR levels of spending... and even then one has to factor in economic strength and population, were Nazi Germany's GDP was more than that of Britain and France combined, yet Germany spend only a bit more than France while having to start from scratch compared to the surrounding nations.

>Don't be so deluded

Says the guy only shitting out stupid memes having absolutely no knowledge about what Hitler wanted. There was no interest in doing something in Western Europe. Peace was always desired with Britain, France was only invaded to make them stop fighting because they all refused any peace offers. Even after they said they'd go back to old borders in 1940, giving back France, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium and Poland (well the half they had) to get peace, it was declined...

There never was the plan nor the desire to conquer Europe... as if the country with barely any resources and no oil available thinks about conquering the 2 biggest empires at that time in the west.

>Go read up a bit:

Suvorov and other novelists are irrelevant.

Once again you do not seem to understand what a mistake is. 2+2=5 is a mistake. The NS did what they were supposed to do.

at no point the spendings of F and GB came close to what NS Germany spent, also much of the money Allies spent was to maintain an obsolete fleet, air force and army - which were swept away in 1940.

>restoration of Russia in its pre-WW1 borders
Sounds like fucking EXPANSIONISM to me. So did Hitler wanted to restore pre WW1 German borders and unite with Austria.

> the whole military spending
Massive labour programs of military expansion and infrastructure expansion had the initial purpouse of taking Germany out of the great depression rather than war.

>Reichsmark paper bills
Germany traded raw resources for industrial goods not cash, that's why the inflation dropped in Germany despite the increasing debt and the drop of the value of the Marks. You even used synthectic resources.

The real propaganda is the allied propaganda. Studying race doesn't mean you hate everybody else nor it means you want to gas them.

>Sounds like fucking EXPANSIONISM to me. So did Hitler wanted to restore pre WW1 German borders and unite with Austria.

Yes, it was Russian nationalism. That's something different than invading Western Europe as the old Red Army generals, who had been eliminated by Stalin, had proposed.

>Massive labour programs of military expansion and infrastructure expansion had the initial purpouse of taking Germany out of the great depression rather than war.

well, one does not spend most of the national budget on military spending just to lower the amount of unemployed.

>Germany traded raw resources for industrial goods not cash, that's why the inflation dropped in Germany despite the increasing debt and the drop of the value of the Marks. You even used synthectic resources

The Reichsmark under Hitler lost its status as forex, it no longer had any value, that's why barter trade had to be done, a highly inefficient way to make deals. The inflation did not drop, it increased under Hitler, centrally planned economy and price fixings suppressed it for a while though.

>You even used synthectic resources.

Autarcy was a program to make Germany ready for war.