Hey Sup Forums, since this board has gone to shit during the last couple of months, I've decided to start a serious thread about finnish areas ceded in 1944 to the USSR, more specifically Karelia.
Karelia (or Karjala) was taken from Finland with the purpose of making it a buffer zone for Leningrad (today's St. Peterburg). Other zones were also taken, like Petsamo and Salla, along with some islands in the Gulf of Finland, but have been returned since.
The overall discussion should be whether Karelia should be returned to Finland or not. In 1994 Russian president Boris Yeltsin suggested that Karelia could be given back to Finland, calling it "an example of Stalin's totalitarian and aggressive polics", but after being pressured he backed down from that statement. Despite the historical despute, alot of finns oppose the return of Finnish Karelia, either because of it's economical status, or because of the fear of a russian speaking minority being formed in Finland.
So the question is why do russians see Crimea as russian, but refuse to accept Karelia's geographical history? (Before there's replies of the type "Hurr durr take it back", Putin in 2000 said that talks regarding returning Karelia to Finland, were a "danger to Finnish-Russian relations".)
What's Sup Forums's opinion and stance on this? Serious replies please.
Karelian question
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finalnd has a large army
Nobody here in Finland wants it: the infrastructure is shit, it´s practically full of shitty 100 year old wooden houses and soviet commieblocks.
We'll get it back for sure.
there aren't any karelians left. they are all russian. it's lost just like konigsberg
Rurik was a Finn, so it's already in the right hands.
That's an interesting topic. In my opinion, Russia should keep Karelia. If Finland doesn't want that region, then Russia can keep the region based on a referendum.
>why do russians see Crimea as russian
because it's Russian
>refuse to accept Karelia's geographical history
Finns themself don't want it
just like everything those slobs touch
>SINCE THIS BOARD HAS GONE TO SHIT
Literally see this posted on every board I've ever visited since I first started going online back in like 1997.
>muh sekrit club
> Putin in 2000 said
We are gonna turn the whole thing to glass soon anyway. Not worth worrying about
The Finns do not want it back, the Russians have been there so long the place will be fucked with shitty infrastructure and AIDS. Once the Russians steal somewhere they wreck it.
we had a chance to get it back in 1991 but shitty cuck politicians fucked it up
Only way we would want it back is way we left it, without population.
Crimea is ethnically Russian and strategically important to Russia. Karelia, Salla, Petsamo not Finnish anymore, totally destroyed/neglected, and have no strategic value to Finland, unless with Petsamo they wanted an arctic port.
That would like double our population and those russians would likely vote to join russia anyway.
>everything i touch dies
>must be coincidence
>we had a chance to get it back in 1991 but shitty cuck politicians fucked it up
Would you like to have huge Russian minority. That is a massive political risk. Just fixing the infrastructure in Karelia would have pretty much bankrupt Finland.
You seem to know your stuff for an american and you are exactly right.
>strategically important to Russia
Please explain this. The Black Sea is a lake surrounded by melon farms.
just force them to stay in that area and teach them Finnish. We could use Viipuri and Karelia is a part of being Finnish
I guess to correct some sort of historical injustice but too many slavs they'd drag down Finland.
Wtf, I always assumed that territorial changes from Winter War were reverted to pre-war borders. Why did the Allied forces let Stalin get away with all of his agression?
Stalin was allied. We were with the good guys.
>Why did the Allied forces let Stalin get away with all of his agression?
Because Continuation War.
Finland with Nazi-Germany´s aid was able to conquer all of the lost territories, but we made a mistake because we did not stop there. We went further and actually went further than pre-war borders.
The Finnish race is the most powerful race on this planet.
We must count ourselves lucky, with the flick of a switch, they could turn the entire world into Greater Finngolia.
The roots of Genghis Khan run strong there.
>but we made a mistake
Not really. We got to kill more ryssä.
What dont communists get away with since ww2.
>walk down the street
>see nationalist everyone hates shuns him
>See atheistic communist looting and rioting everyone thinks they are ok or good guys because they hate nationalists.
Melons are the world's most important natural resource.
Finland lost those territories in the war (they think they won the winter war, I mean it is logical to lost territories in the war you won amirite?), if you are asking for them back why don't you ask Poland to return the stolen land to Germany?
All of these talks are not helpful anyway since Finland is Russian clay.
>mistake
Do you think Stalin would have just said we're even if the army stopped at the old border? Not a chance after years of war.
Having an occupied buffer zone just meant they didn't have to retreat on Finland's own legal clay.
Whole Finland belongs to Russia, and USSR will rise again to take it back.
Getting Karelia back would be mostly just for the historical reasons.
It has no resources or infrastructure.
If we could kick all the russkies out, sure we would take it.
But in reality the idea is dead. Nothing less than a nuclear war is going to get us Karelia back.
>I mean it is logical to lost territories in the war you won amirite?
I hope your victory was worth losing 5 times more men than us.
Putin trolls leave!
A single ruble per post cant be worth it to keep posting that propaganda.
tfw your mom's parents are from Vyborg and moved here after it was lost in the war
Finland's independence is illegal, Lenin gave us independence before USSR was a thing and he wasn't even proper leader back then. We are rightful Russian clay and you know it. Now accept it because being Russian than getting shitloads of Muslims here as we have right now.
being Russian is better than*
>ceded
They were taken, not ceded.
>I hope your victory was worth losing 5 times more men than us.
How do you think we won WW2? By superior technology? A win is a win.
This is why getting Karelia back without kicking the russian population out is bad. We have like 20 000 russians in Finland, and they all are plotting to destroy us.
Karelians are Finnish tribe. They belong to Finland. This isn't difficult.
If we actually got something back it should be Petsamo but getting it back seems extremely unlikely due to the economical importance it would have for Finland and Russian-Norwegian border. Most Finns don't actually care much about it compared to Karelia since Karelia gets more attention but when Finland lost Petsamo we also lost our access to the Arctic ocean.
As for Karelia, it's still a pretty common opinnion that we should try to take it back but it is not really realistic nor would it be worth it. It would cause alot of political tension, Finland would be too close to important Russian cities which would make the already unpredictable Russians even more uncomfortable and volitile and most importantly, the area is already full of Russians. We would end up in a situation similar to Ukrane and the Baltic countries with large Russian minorities. Also the infrastructure is in a really bad shape and almost all of the Finnish ex-inhabitants of that area are long dead.
How about we exchange Åland for Petsamo? It is not like either of us has any actual use for those pieces of lands but Russians want Åland and we want a port in the Arctic ocean.
Being part of Russia would significantly increase our Muslims percentage.
No point in getting it back. The infrastructure is totally fucked up since Russians are incapable of maintaining anything. The poverty is also at extreme levels.
Only Petsamo would be worth getting back. That place is also however fucked up beyond repair.
We also don't wan't a Russian minority that would start spreading lies and propaganda.
>Putin
>giving up land
>ever
Yeah no. He doesn't even want to return the shitty Kuril islands to Japan, despite them having no economic or strategic value
Nobody is plotting to destroy anyone, I'm just telling you facts. Finland isn't really independent country legally, and we should join back. Putin will welcome us with warm heart and everything will be better.
Karelia being a poor area with bad infrastructure is a meme - cities in the area have better economic power than those in Eastern Finland. Even the infrastructure isn't as bad as people think. Compare pictures of modern day Petroskoi or Sortavala to those of Joensuu.
>they all are plotting to destroy us.
Nah. They want to live a good live too. Seriously, joining Russia back would benefit you. Communism was a mistake, that won't happen again, pinky promise.
fuking commie
Crimea was originally Russian
Crimea is seen as russian because it's full of russians. Karelia is seen as russian because it's full of russians.
With all them water melons Russians can control the world's nigger population.
Getting back Petsamo would be nice. Local russians there should get autonomy and Finland gets sea port.
>they think they won the winter war
bullshit, we know you won
>Finland is Russian clay
more bullshit
>Seriously, joining Russia back would benefit you
pic related
Russia already has a shit load of Muslims
Ukrainians are ethnically Russians. They just hate us and don't want to associate with us because we starved them.
That's why Obongo so buttblasted about Crimea.
Go fuck yourself and die. Better dead than Russian.
>Seriously, joining Russia back would benefit you.
We would be getting easily one of the most corrupt admin and get sanctions for our most important trading partners. Only benefits would be cheaper booze and gasoline.
I suspect it would be a a possibility without Petsamo as Petsamo is far too important strategically. However it would mean Finland would fall into Russia's sphere of influence. This though would not be All bad as Finland's economy is more geared towards Russia than any of the EU countries.
Besides the infrastructure could easily be fixed by Russian Trade money if we were simply allowed to continue it without EU and Merkel crying that we Should go broke instead of doing trade with EVIL RUSSIA.
Grey and black most fashionable colors.
It would still be under their control if they wouldnt have lost the Winter war.
Make Sabaton sing them a song about it, maybe then they will feel better.
Cheaper booze isn't that what your whole depressed suicidal country is about?
Bergele kaljaaa
four yew
>So the question is why do russians see Crimea as russian
The same reason we won't give up Kaliningrad despite this is a rightful German clay. It's a place for our fleet and missiles.
No one can expect to just take it away without suffering harsh consequnces.
There's another clays that we could reclaim, a lot of them actually, but they don't have that much strategic/military significance.
Crimea is not about muh feelings. It's the question of fleet and nukes. Try to take it away, get punched in the face.
I want all our old territories back as a matter of principle.
fucking leaf
khans never reached finland
come with the territory, literally
fucking kavkas
Better idea would be to do what china does.
Settle a fuckload of native finns in there and encourage them to split off from their communities to different area of finland until they are assimilated.
You are greatly over estimating trade between Finland and Russia.
>Cheaper booze isn't that what your whole depressed suicidal country is about?
In EU that can be imported from Estonia.
If they were to give it back all the Russians should have to move off of it that way you don't have the problem of a cultural/ethnic minority and having to fucking pander to it (think of 80s Canada and Quebec before we got any other cultural minorities)
Yeah celebrating Finnishness sadly means just getting drunk on alcohol. We don't have anything like the Estonian laulupidu or the Norwegian national day when they dress up in national costumes.
Fuck that noise.
>fucking tatarstan
>fucking bashkortostan
>fucking kalmykia
though I think latter are buddhist
I don't have a stance, because it means nothing to me.
Finland and Russia can work it out.
Russia wants Crimea because of the naval base. When Russia owns Crimea they can still exert their force on the back sea. Without Crimea they can't. It isn't a matter of them seeing it as Russian, it's that they need it.
We are not collectivist enough for that to work.
BOOT
THE
RUSSIANS
OUT
before you take it
The Russians did it to Germans when they took parts of Germany so too should you with the Russians in Karelia
That was exactly what we did. It is an old tactic that every nation use anyway. We would use it when got you back, Finland.
Not only that, Crimea is a very strategical base that allows Russia access to the Black Sea. That's another reason.
Although I would say out of all the "moderate" Muslims in the world yours are the most moderest once of them all
You forgot suicide
That's just a meme. I was being serious with my post.
Another angle for the question, Russia not only has something to return, but also a lot of things to take back.
It we return Karelia to Finland and some islands to Japan, it would be expected that Kazakhstan give up its clay, that Ukraine would stop to act like it owns its land and so on.
We start to pressure Baltic states to redraw its borders, since there's a lot of Russians living there (in Estonia it's 24% of the population).
Funny thing, you can expect this move from hardline nationalists. Yes, you'll get back your precious Karelia. But we'll take more elsewhere.
someday...
Because you can get to the ocean and it doesn't freeze in the winter. It's a warm water port which is hard to come by as a northern country
It's why Canada would never allow western Canada or BC independence. Our only 100% year round ice free port connected by land is in Vancouver and canada would be fucked without it. Also the pacific fleet in Victoria except having a navy isn't as important to Ottawa I guess
>Funny thing, you can expect this move from hardline nationalists
Any relevant names?
I am being serious too. I heard you guys have high rates of depression and suicide.
Just deport them all and build a wall on the Russian border
I guess our current mainstream is "Sputnik & Pogrom". Egor Prosvirnin.
No you are being a fucktard. Nobody celebrates suicide anywhere. It's not what anybody's nation is about.
What's the point of having a navy if you kill your enemies they win.
But is it true?
>yours are the most moderest once of them al
>imblying
ours are way better, watch this:
It's like a russian Breitbart, except with a lot of "muh russian empire", "muh russian culture" and "muh russian clay". They advocate for taking Ukraine, Belarussia, northern Kazakhstan and maybe something else by force.
But yes, as far as nationalists go these guys are the mainstream.
I don't know the figures and don't care, you can check it yourself.