Have you ever read about Oswald Spengler and his theories on societies?

Have you ever read about Oswald Spengler and his theories on societies?

To put it short, he believes that societies and civilizations are like living creatures - they are born, then go through many stages, get old and eventually die.

He argued that Western civilization reached its pinnacle at about 1700, and started degrading a century after and will meet its demise somewhere around 2000-2100.

According to him, signs of a dying society are

>large-scale urbanization
Absolutely, we're more centered in cities than ever before

>decline of birth rates
Europe is at 1.54 and going down, same for America

>individualism
Special snowflakes, so on and so forth

>secularity
Believers are at an all time low

>paid armies
Goes without saying

He also noted how art is in heavy decline, so lets take a look

>modern art
Literal lines on a blank canvas

>modern music
Glorifies twisted sexualities, use of drugs and murdering people

>modern architecture
Absolutely disgusting

So far his theory has upheld itself 100%. Also what is interesting is that the degeneration cannot be stopped in any way, and society will keep on crumbling. A new one will be born some time after, and that society will one day also die, just like ours and every society before it.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=FsaieZt5vjk
barnabyisright.com/2013/03/30/why-celebrity-chefs-herald-the-end-of-empire/
news.com.au/technology/science/society-could-collapse-within-a-decade-mathematical-historian-predicts/news-story/6de2e69055a4e7b9f465edff1e550583
m.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Joi61FsDk
youtube.com/watch?v=uha7WWgoeX4&t=63s
youtube.com/watch?v=I8BRdwgPChQ
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Bump

there will be no new civilization if there are no whites left

Well what about your country? I guess the asians can come up with something.

Does he apply this model to showcase the cycle in past civilizations in his book?

>tfw born in time to see the west die and the east (shina and the Arab world) rise again

Allah is great!

I'm unsure as I've only taken a glance at it, but there is quite a bit of evidence to show that Rome, for instance, fell because of this.

>paid armies
how is that a bad thing though? In most of our history armies were composed of professionnal soldiers

without an empire and lands to conquer Japan will stagnate forever

He was 100% right.

degeneration can't be stopped, but it can greatly strengthen the will of the individual that is able to endure it

But won't this mean that Trump doesn't have chance? That while he would be a great president, his countrymen are degenerates?

Spengler was a faggot and so are all his virgin followers on /pol and YouTube. It doesn't make sense, just the rigid minded autistic brainchild of some deranged old man, no wonder it's so popular on here in this aspie circlejerk of a circus.

Nice critical thinking on your part.

You can take the US after its downfall.

>He argued that Western civilization reached its pinnacle at about 1700
hahahaha

>mistaking baubles for progress

It depends on your parameters really. The arts certainly reached their peak at the 18th century, maybe with the exception of literature, but when people stop making great paintings, music and buildings to start writing great fiction I think that's already a sign of decline.

>critical thinking

M'lady.

(Also, checked)

In my opinion one can't be really redpilled without understanding and reading history and current happenings in Spenglerian framework. Without understanding how history behaves in largest scale (centuries and millenia) one is always a bluepilled sheep who reacts to things he sees without really understanding what he is witnessing.

Should be mandatory reading for all Sup Forumsacks. I read about Spenger first time when I was about 14 or so.

>Mfw society collapses when I'm to old too own sex slaves

youtube.com/watch?v=FsaieZt5vjk

If you are a complete newcomer to Spengler, watch this video and others. It doesn't answer any "why"s (each sentence or phrase mentioned has pages and pages of explanation in the original book) but it pretty well tells "what" Spengler has thought about past and us (and combines it with a bit of Nietzsche).

It is very likely that Trump is has been set up as a fall-guy for the next major market crash, the aftermath of which could very well be a one world government and the destruction of Western civilisation that Spengler predicted

>ive never read anything by him here is my shit opinion

>his description fits me perfectly so I'm going to greentext the shit out of him

lmao stay mad virgin

Debased coinage is also a sign. By debased, I mean newer coins lacking the fine detail of older ones.

Related reading.

The next civilization that we will create must be KIke-Free which which mean no Christianity, imo we must create a White Buddhist civilizatin and cleansy the World from the accrused semetic race.

you said nothing of value. you may as well have said

>he's a big poopy head idiot and my dad could beat him up lmao

just a pointless throaway shitpost from someone who probably hasn't even read it, and is probably too low iq to understand it anyway.

>>critical thinking
>M'lady.

:^)

Don't feed the troll

barnabyisright.com/2013/03/30/why-celebrity-chefs-herald-the-end-of-empire/

news.com.au/technology/science/society-could-collapse-within-a-decade-mathematical-historian-predicts/news-story/6de2e69055a4e7b9f465edff1e550583

nothing new

What the fuck do I care if I didn't post my elaborate view of his thesis? I described you perfectly well, you recognised yourself in the mirror and lashed out at me, being the frustrated raging virgin that you so desperately are.

>probably too low iq to understand it anyway

Yes, yes, let the narcissistic personality disorder flow through you.

*tips fedora*

This guy knows what's up

The sole reason you "agree" with this bullshit is because it fits your delusional narrative that the current modern society (which probably excluded you for being too autistic) is in any way "flawed" because females fuck slightly more than they did a century ago. In fact, every "m-muh degeneracy is killing the west!" faggot is the ultimate form of a sour grape that would do a complete 180 in the very second he somehow (magically) started getting access

He's probably right you never read him though. Wikipedia depth.

Implying we could understand anything about the next culture, that's like Romans planning in 200 AD how the new civilization will be in 1200.

Even after the Roman empire collapsed it took over 500 years to find the real form and idea of Western civilization (and that is usually pinpointed to the completition of the choir of basilica of Saint Denys, aka the birth of Gothicism). Before that there was numerous tries to find the real form, also a couple of false renaissances (karolinian and ottoan) which were basically attempts to beat a dead horse (Roman empire).

lol
i laughed and i cringed
>frustrated raging virgin

to anyone reading this you sound far more angry and emotional than me.

He's wrong though about the age thing, we are dying from a (((parasite))).

>i have never read it

try again, the book has nothing to do with what you probably think it does.

Really? I thought most soldiers were levies from the civilian population, with small amount of professionals/mercenaries.

>because females fuck slightly more than they did a century ago

Yeah like a hundred times more lol

That wasn't really my point.

Rather, that he seems to be too keen on categorising certain eras. Too much focus on the proper order of things, civilisational routine, etc. hence why I called the whole thing reeking of oblivious autism.

Embarking on a counter-crusade of sorts, I'm taking it? :)

I know what it is about, it's just the people who tend to create those threads do so for the sole reason I described. There are many FAR more efficient ways to improve the western civilization, colonizing space with a technology-oriented government being one of them, but the "muh degeneracy" faggots tend to tunnelvision to this single """"issue""" because they're still assmad that they weren't the popular kid in highschool who got to fuck all the easy pussy

Just wait for this thread to develop and you'll see how it will revert to "muh females muh whores muh weed muh jews" within 50 posts

anyone can see from your histrionics you're extremely butthurt and upset. why?

>"lashed out at me"

oy vey, lol

>being the frustrated raging virgin that you so desperately are.

hahaha

your posts reek of passive aggressive anger

>individualism
individualism has always been the banner of western civilization. What you are referring to is selfishness and narcissism, these special snowflakes want to impose their view on others crying for nanny state for help.

>I know what it is about, it's just the people who tend to create those threads do so for the sole reason I described.
i see
you're probably correct actually

Asians lack creativity and took everything from white civilization and try to westernize their own countries

Get your pixelated dicks out and start breeding samurai, then conquer China

So you haven't really read it.

There's nothing to improve in Western civilization, because *it has already answered all the questions asked in the dark ages when it was born*. Now it's petrified and rest of its history is as historyless as the endemic war of barbarian tribes (think about the history of China, where the petrified remains of an old, once great civilization continued their meaningless existence for thousands of years, before Western civilization finally steamrolled it a couple of decades ago.

That will be also our fate, if we will not collapse before that.No matter how much space exploration or genetical engineering, our civilization's creative potential is exhausted and we are prisoners of its petrified forms (here "form" mean a fuckton more than just artistic forms, starting from morality and such).

Apart from literature, every artform was most advanced and complex during that time. Paintings, architecture, music you name it. Secondly, during that century the West and Europeans in general basically owned and controlled everything on the planet. After that, most nations have become independent and taken after our model of a society, and we are no longer nearly as represented on the world stage as we were before.

If you still disagree, then when was the actual pinnacle? Now, in 2017?

>we have all the knowledge in the world in our pockets, yet the common man knows less than he did before he had such tools
>we have the most advanced tools to making music, but yet music is the dumbest, dullest, most repetetive and simplest as it has ever been
>we have the best tools to creating art, but art now closely resembles my toilet after i've taken a shit
>we have created great nations but rather than improving them we let ourselves plunder whatever value was left

We have the best assets, but we use them to create the most harmful liabilities. Isn't that strange? No longer are people reserved or do they conserve themselves and their society, but degenerates and vile creatures vaguely reminiscent of a human beings. We have stagnated to such a degree that we see our lives, cultures and communities as meaningless things to be used as tools to hedonism and self-destruction.

I (and many better theorists) would say that pinnacle of music was Wagner. Not surprising, because music as an art was like 100 years behind other art forms from the beginning (probably because Western culture had to start from scratch, there was basically nothing to imitate, no older surviving high-culture music).

Back in the 50-60's things looked entirely different.

The family was still intact, young people had better chances, there was room to expand to, something to conquer, exuberance wasn't a question of luxury, even in socialist Hungary society was infinitely more cohesive.

The future just didn't seem so dark and hopeless.

Would anyone have said back then, that fifty years onwards we're going to perceive the world as we do now?

According to Spenglerian timeline, this particular half century meant nothing in the greater scheme of things, and yet...

I think in many cases Spengler noticed patterns which he only imagined to be there.

it happened but it was rare, peasants role was to farm not to fight.

posting spengler oc

Your argument literally rests on the premise that your opponents are all thirsty for sex and thus discrediting their arguments.

Well, the Spenglerian patterns really became real as he thought. The "era of contesting states" starting from WW1 and ending with the collapse of Soviet Union resulted a single world-dominant state, just as was written (compare to Punic wars, Caesar, Egypt, Greece). Everything looks like that we will soon (in this century) enter an era of world empire centered around USA. Decadence has marched on just like Spengler wrote. The optimism of 50-60 was just usual fluctuation of times, there were better and worse times (emperors) in Roman empire also.

what are his views on technological development and this decline? Because since the 1700s Europe has carried the torch on so many innovations in every field that it';s almost unimaginable living life without them,esp advances in agriculture and medicine. However after ww2 the pace(in Europe) has declined significantly . It's easy to blame socialism but socialist communist countries in the Eastern Block did not follow this pastern compared to their past backward history.
In fact from the start of the cold war until the late 70s it was the ussr&co vs the USA that were competing in technological developments and not just in the military field.
For the record I am talking about the pattern as it related to a societal basis,not x person that was born in x european country that invented/contributed to etc etc and yes I know that Europe still makes the best cars and other developments in engineering and science but most of them are evolutionary (as in refinement andimprovement of previous products) and not revolutionary.
When you take into account that our life would be so different without the advent of the cpu and that Intel,AMD,Nvidia,Apple,IBM,Microsoft etc etc etc etc are ALL American companies that started,developed and thrived in America and that there is no European equivalent (at least not on scale) of Google or even Facebook things start to look very bleak,esp if you take into account that,as a whole Europe as a population with a high iq and a very rich history of technological innovation.

'glorly' eh? That's a new one to me.

>individualism
>special snowflakes
Except that the current far-left special snowflake mentality is the opposite of individualism. It's another form of tribal/herd mentality. It's like how Hollywood is currently ostracizing any celebrity who won't pubicly criticize Trump. They view everything in terms of groups and all societal inequalities are because a privileged group is somehow systematically taking advantage of a weaker group (they cannot name any of racist group of facility in current politics, laughably).

Black people with disproportionately high rates of poverty? Can't be because black individuals have an unproductive, destructive city culture. Systematic racism by groups of white politicans and entrepenuers. Migrants and blacks with high incarceration rates? Systematic racism by groups of white cops.

True individualism allows people to see others as individuals and respect OTHERS as individuals, too. For the current far-leftists, the only individual that matters is themselves, and everyone else is part of two broad, overaching groups: the oppressor or the oppressed. When convenient, they will identify themselves as the oppressed. Otherwise, they hypcrotically engage in all the racism, bullying, and shaming that they're such fervent advocates of stopping.

>decline of birth rates
Won't be a problem with automation. Society won't collapse when the infrastructure is so tight and sturdy. Just look at my country, Worst Korea. We just found out our President is a brainwashed puppet. Yet, everyone lives their lives as normal. Nothing changes. People's basic needs and rights must be completely infringed for there to be a initial collapse and rebirth. Now, there are too many ways to at least secure the people basic necessities. We've hit our peak. The only thing left now is to ponder why we even exist.

well, he was wrong with a few things, f.e. indian culture is faustian, not magical - he wasnt really sure about it himself - in some parts he describes the brahmanical soul as being the only one capable of understanding numbers then goes back to classifying them as magical which kind of contradicts himself

these inconsistencies come mainly from the fact that he used the best knowledge that he had available at his time and tried to predict the future of cultural cycles


he also lived in a time where it was assumed that pretty much everything in physics and mathematics had been discovered, he was actually quite well versed in almost all subjects, because he actively studied them and got degrees in them (maths, philology, music)


all in all i dont think you can truly understand spengler if:

1. you dont understand the german language , because certain terms like raum are not really translatable to english without losing the original meaning

2. you arent actually proficient in most subjects he talks about yourself, f.e. he talks a lot about mathematics, physics, arts, music , its a very general work and one from somebody who has understood many fields TO somebody who at least has a certain knowledge about them


he has nothing to do with racial taxonomy at all , but he actually predicted the state of the people that would be in the position to judge him very nicely ironically (philosophers, psychologists, cultural and sociological researchers) : they are and have been since almost 400 years nothing but collectors and folders , not actually creating anything of worth

>he premise that your opponents are all thirsty for sex
Well, at least his premise is correct.

>I (and many better theorists) would say that pinnacle of music was Wagner.
How is Wagner superior to classical music?

So, with the downfall of Western civilisation, comes what? We'll play feudalism in a Fallout-like setting, meddling in tons and tons of concrete garbage with no hopes of ever reinstating an industrial society ever again?

spengler assumed russian culture would take over (because he really liked the russian literature) , but honestly i think either chinese culture or indian culture will , in the long run take over, if they dont fuck up (india with islam and china with some kind of revolutions)


russians have long lost their once strong cultural position and have rather become a joke

I would assume that by "individualism" he referred to unhealthy individualism, such as narcissism.

There's a lot of dispute about who was the final genius of Classical music, but almost everyone agrees that Wagner was one of the last (or the last) who invented something new. Wagner didn't invent the leitmotif tecnique, but developed it into the form we know it today. Wagner pushed the tonal music near its chromatic limits, from there it was just a small step to modern music (which was the start of decline and fall of classical music as an contemporary artform). Almost all film music is imitation of Wagner or based on imitation of imitation of imitation etc. of Wagner (instead of, for example, Mozart or Schönberg).

he wasnt, bachs contrapunctus is considered to be the pinnacle of music according to spengler

There is no way to empirically prove that people in the modern era are more narcissistic than people in the past. What we do know is that "individualism" has been coined a term and Western culture reflects its ideology.

there are much more opportunistic and narcissistic individuals than before,


where before a king would reward you for being honest and brave, nowadays the system will punish anybody "dumb" enough to be honest


literally a breeding ground for narcissistic and sick behaviour which has previously only been known to this extent in the jewish culture (they have the concept of "chuzpah" in their talmud, which is literally a moral reward for fucking others over)

Does the illumiati exist? I think there is proof right here m.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Joi61FsDk

Zero Hedge again. I've been worried about this since reading that article

>where before a king would reward you for being honest and brave
I object to this. I was a squire living in the Middle Ages in my previous life. The King's 5th son twice removed or whatever killed me and took my wife.

>nowadays the system will punish anybody "dumb" enough to be honest
Proofs? Capitalism and democracy has rewarded honesty, at times. It certainly rewards ordinary people on an individual level. How can you expect to function anywhere in society if you can't give or take the minimum required amount of trust?

We really don't know, but I would say it will take centuries or millennia before our influence becomes irrelevant. The influence of antiquity became irrelevant just some 100 years ago and in the beginning our civilization had a habit to obsessively larp Romans even while we clearly weren't them.

A huge question mark is China. It's more likely than unlikely that in the next centuries China will become almost completely Christian nation (Mao created a religious vacuum which is now filling fast). Who knows how that will go? Maybe China will become our Byzantion?

Another question mark are space colonies. It's also more likely than not that we will establish large enough colonies on Mars which will survive our collapse (Moon colonies won't survive because Moon utterly lacks certain important elements like nitrogen). In such wild-west sryle desolations the colonies could soon develop to something completely new.

Japan is built to endure . . less population yes but their essence is preserved .

China on the the hand if not careful may end up like the West . .

The west .. well it was nice knowing ya'all :P

>I'm a retard, the post

Women having sex hang lead to degeneracy, and degeneracy has always been around. Seneca speaks frequently in his writing of degeneracy: women dressing immodestly (like whores), having multiple sex partners before mairrage (if married at all), people or being lazy, etc. however during his life and time these things were all shunned and viewed as poison of the mind, and bear in mind this was 2,000 years ago during the height of the Roman Empire.

The main difference now is that instead of these things being shunned, they are celebrated. Technological advancement in the media has put these things front and center to be celebrated and revered. It has opened the floodgates for Satan and his armies. Why would devils need to go about cementing hundreds of millions of souls when a pop star, a movie star, and a couple social media platforms and tech CEO's can do it all for them? Get one, send his message out to the world, and millions will follow.

So when he talks about modern art and modern music, this is what he means. I've seen a lot and done a lot of things I regret and only experience can tell me this author is not as autistic as you think. In fact he would no doubt of had to experience these things as well to come to the conclusions he did. I've never read his book either, this is just going off the bullet points.

Anyways, you're stupid

But what is technology worth when it's used for dark purposes? I strongly advise you to read the works of Savitri Devi who thoroughly point out the need to distance ourselves from materialism.

...

Wrong. Bach, Mozart, Schubert, Beethoven. Wagner is derivative and program music

It makes more sense than Marx. But since Marx appeals to the economical frustrations of intellectuals, it's more acceptable to follow him.

Trump will save the West!

I think we are basically evolving into machines. Man is just a catalyst for AI.

Not an argument.

And what does Schubert do on your list? Why not Chopin? Or Berlioz, who invented the idee fixe, predecessor of leitmotifs?

I'm no specialist, but Wagner and the whole post-classical romantic yap that came before him seem to me like the beginning of the decline itself. That's when music stopped being about excellence in craft and started being about just rubbing muh feelings on the face of the listener using simpler musical language to make it more accessible to the less refined urban masses who couldn't wait to just talk about the latest blockbust.... Opera at the next party. All while hiding that debased simplicity under "innovations" (just like modern music) like chromaticism so the pigs can feel like they're being intellectually stimulated because there's a theory behind the music. Wagner is just the apex of this degeneration of values in music and modern music is the worm that's eating its corpse.

That would be the final triumph of Western culture in its yearning to infinity.

No, he won't. As Spengler said, a society and culture are just like a living being. Can you say that you can save an 80-year old from dying? No, Trump can only slightly prolong the decay, and we will definitely go into freefall mode after he's out of the office.

Trump and Hitler are and were nothing more than desperate men, trying to revive a dying civilization.

Civilizations are a lot like computers to me

Eventually it's bogged down with all kinds of shit that has just accumulated over time, sometimes you just gotta factory reset your shit and start over

If you don't recognize the exceptional genius of Schubert then you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Well yeah, during Wagner's time most of society was already in steep decline ("the gilded era"). The most creative composer was pretty probably Bach; Mozart was probably more innovative than Wagner etc. That's because during their times there was more to discover; in Wagner's time the "tech tree" of Western music was almost complete.

And there were more composers than any time before trying to find something new (in Spengler's opinion, such desperate search for originality is a sign of decadence). Schönberg and modernists tried to jump off the whole fucking tech tree and start their own, well that didn't work very well. Orff (the O fortuna guy) tried to climb down to medieval levels and find something undiscovered from there.

The possibilities of Western music are completely exhausted and before the whole system collapses there is only imitation left. Wagner was the one who won the imitation game.

(no eggspert opinions here also)

the system doesnt reward "ordinary" people, it rewards actively malicious and manipulating people in almost every facet of life

teaching your kid to admit to his mistakes is probably one of the worst things that you can do, doctors f.e. are actively reminded never to admit to any kind of mistakes and its the same anywhere where the "modern law" is ruling

of course your mileage may vary between king to king, but the general cultural feeling, the cultural soul was one of honesty, honor , humility, in europe it reached its pinnacle with the prussians around 1700

it began much earlier with the indo-europeans of course and indians have similar values in the caste system (restricted to the higher castes obviously) and maybe their "pinnacle" is yet to come


but this general feeling that it is necessary to be "good" (in a way that benefits the whole of the group) , is completely gone - people only help to make themselves look better - if they know they get a "return" - or as the jews like to put it : "Time is Money"

>There are many FAR more efficient ways to improve the western civilization, colonizing space with a technology-oriented government being one of them

You are clueless

The problem is that he sees society through a modern worldview. A thousand years ago, the societies we would have lived in would have existed for a thousand years prior.
China existed for thousands of years.
Greece has existed for thousands of years.

There IS no decline of the west. The west has already declined. It's follows the same pattern through centuries. Take Rome, for instance; the destruction of honour for the sake of law, then the rise and fall of the Roman empire. The French inherited Roman politics and law; and likewise, their empire rose and fall. The French gave the British their civilization, and the British empire rose and fell. America is a product of Roman republicanism; it IS new Rome; and it's rising and falling.

I feel that most of what you say is right. But, until you can get some studies or hard evidence that can prove people have lost moral integrity, which franky seems practically impossible, you're not going to sound all that convincing.

I rather recognize the exceptional genius of Gustav Mahler. However I have no reasons to put my favorite composer to an objective list of top 4 most important composers.

youtube.com/watch?v=uha7WWgoeX4&t=63s

Ebi si maika I si hodi u 33.

yes, very much so.

If you chart the great civilizations history next to each other. then the achievements of each line up somewhat perfectly into distinct "ages" or seasons of civilisations, spring (birth) through to winter (decay).

The West entered "Winter" in late 19th century.

Its been hanging on ever since.

Islam went into winter about 500 years ago tho.
and has very much been on "life support" since according to him.
top kek.

> The Decline of the West | Oswald Spengler
youtube.com/watch?v=FsaieZt5vjk

Once you see it, you'll start to notice other people talking about it now.

> Lesson from History: Transgender Mania is Sign of Cultural Collapse - Camille Paglia
youtube.com/watch?v=I8BRdwgPChQ

Homosexuality pops up always in the late winter of a civilisation.

A tell tell sign of the imminent collapse.

pic related is from Oswalds book.

It shows 4 civilizations (Indian, Arab, Classical and the West) and details the signs associated with each.

its funny because you asking for sources is evidence of this loss of "good" culture , whereas before people would generally trust in the diligence of others (spengler himself was actually failed in his PhD exam because he didnt supply enough sources) , and people who opened their mouth were diligent enough and also rarely mixed their political feelings with their (scientific) work


this all changed about 50-60 years ago, people want to see citations from the "right" source, and if it doesnt conform to what they want to hear they will then proceed to attack the source - its a neverending cycle


as if some jew approving a publication that is politically biased is worth more than the actual truth (or changes the truth in any way)

The problem is that our homelands are being invaded by non-whites on an unprecedented scale. They expect more than 200 million Africans and Asians (along with some spics) to invade the west as economic migrants over the next 20 years. We will be colonized and outbred and find ourselves in a situation similar to that of the American Indians by the end of the century.

>massive scientific revolution in the 1800s brought untold prosperity, knowledge and the industrial age
>dying society
really vortex your cortex

>Speaking of Asians in third person