If you call yourself a 'white nationalist' and demonize 'civic nationalists' because they object on practical grounds to ethnic nationalism, then you've completely missed the point of nationalism, which is the raising up of a group bound together by common tradition, heritage, and experience by way of a transcendental institution embodying the customs and mores of the nation.
Ethno-nationalism in white countries never existed outside of the Axis and you should stop pretending it did. Ethno-natioinalism and imperialism are not the same thing at all. Ethno-nationalism is the control of one territory by one ethnic group (i.e. Japan). Imperialism is the control of multiple ethnic groups across multiple territories by one supreme ethnic group (i.e. the British or French Empires). Even nationalism, as it has existed in Western countries, has almost always been a way of uniting ethnic groups, economic and social classes, or religious subcultures under a common banner. If you think that America was ever a 'white' ethno-state, you misunderstand the relationships that existed between Anglo-Americans, German-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans, Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans, and African-Americans in the past, i.e. many of those Irish present before the Revolution were brought to the U.S. against their will and it makes no sense to view them as being Anglos unless you're willing to completely withdraw the claim that miscegenation is bad or even relevant to identity. "White" isn't even an ethnic group, it's a skin tone, and "Caucasian nationalsim" wouldn't be what you want.
If you call yourself a 'white nationalist' and demonize 'civic nationalists' because they object on practical grounds...
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Civic nationalism is the only thing that can salvage a state from ethnic conflict within a nation. Meanwhile, ethnic nationalism is a great way to validate yourself if your only redeeming quality is that you're not a shitskin or a kike (and in fact many kikes are involve in white nationalism, surprise surprise). However, there is no reason to think that a pasty NEET who has never accomplished anything will be better for his own ethnicity, if put in charge of an ethno-state, than would the wisest member of another race. Indeed, I would rather have Jews in the White House than see most people on the Alt-Right there, because the Alt-Right is full of retards convinced that they're on the right side of history because they're white.
White nationalism ignores civic nationalist theory and the actual manifestations of civic nationalism that existed in the past, positing instead a fictitious history in which America was a white ethno-state prior to 1965 and in which European inter-ethnic squabbles didn't put America on top of the world in the 20th century. Civic nationalism by itself is not the solution to anything, but white nationalists who constantly call anyone who disagrees with them a 'civcuck' are harming their nations more than they will ever know.
>ethno-nationalism in white countries never existed outside of the Axis
>if you think that America was ever a 'white' ethno-state, you misunderstand
>I know more about what the United States were supposed to be than the people who founded it
Trash.
>>I know more about what the United States were supposed to be than the people who founded it
Could you show me evidence that the Founding Fathers were unanimous in their agreement that America should be a land consisting only of Anglos? They actually put a lot of effort into writing the most powerful CivNat document of all time, the Constitution, and even settled on a worse CivNat text, the Articles of Confederation, in their place. You'd be hard pressed to find a point in time where people who referred to themselves as "United States citizens" understood that term to mean that only one ethnic group had this label. I emphasize that the existence of Irish-Americans in the early days of the U.S.A. makes it impossible for it to have been an ethno-state.
>unanimous
>Anglos
No, I won't play.
I will simply remind you of the fact that in a time when Washington was president, Adams was VP, Jay was Chief Justice, etc., it was law that only white people could become American citizens.
That's literally a white ethnostate, by design.
Your only response is to ignore American ethnogenesis, a new European ethnicity in the New World.
In ethnic nationalism there isn't conflict to begin with
>I will simply remind you of the fact that in a time when Washington was president, Adams was VP, Jay was Chief Justice, etc., it was law that only white people could become American citizens.
My point is that this doesn't matter because Anglos and Irish, even if both white, are not the same ethnic group. Can you even read?
>Your only response is to ignore American ethnogenesis, a new European ethnicity in the New World.
So you do think that miscegenation is OK as long as civic institutions exist that can survive this miscegenation and maintain the life of the state? I'm confused--do you believe in ethnic purity or don't you?
When did this 'ethnogenesis' take place, and why can't another take place in the future following they forced miscegenation of all pure-blooded members of any ethnic group? Why can't there be one race, a human race? I genuinely don't understand why you don't see how much you contradict yourself.
In some instances, but how many Poles died at the hands of the German ethno-state during the Second World War?
Also explain to me how the Japanese national army massacring the Samurai because they refused to submit to the power of the new ethno-state isn't an instance of intra-ethnic conflict.
Hell, even Japan wasn't an ethno-state, what with the colonization of Korea and whatnot.
>history that contradicts my ideology doesn't matter because I don't know what words mean
So?
>miscegenation
Again, you don't know what words mean. Look it up.
>forced miscegenation
>one race
Oh, (((you))). True colors.
>you contradict yourself
Not at all. You just don't speak English that well.
>Ethno-nationalism in white countries never existed outside of the Axis
This is pure ignorance.
Sage.
Kike
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This isn't ethnic conflict
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>Again, you don't know what words mean. Look it up.
Are you really telling me that Anglos and Irish are the same ethnic group?
>>forced miscegenation
>>one race
Confirmed for completely missing my point, which is that by your standards, this vague concept of ethnogenesis that occurred sometime after the Irish came to America allows for all kinds of ways to bullshit yourself out of acknowledging that you're pro-miscegenation.
>Echo meme
This with the Reddit spacing makes me think you're a TRSodomite.
How is Germans massacring Poles because they're not Germans not ethnic conflict? How is the massacre of the Samurai not an instance of conflict brought on by ethno-nationalism?
>White Nationalism
Not even, I'm just pointing out that some white nationalists are retarded.
Read my link dummy. Your premises are incorrect. Ethno-Nationalism enabled many European nations to regain independence.
en.wikipedia.org
Civic nationalism is a new world brain fart that infected western Europe in the latter half of the 20th century.
>are you really telling me
That Anglo/Irish mixing isn't miscegenation? Yes. Learn English.
>after the Irish came to America
History pleb, there were Irish here before the United States were formed. Look into our Founding Fathers a little more if you can ever get past your cognitive dissonance after learning they were largely white nationalists.
>you're pro-miscegenation
How would you know? You don't even know what miscegenation means.
>reddit
>TRS
Weak.
>wah it's wrong to stick up for your people and wanting to live amongst just them because Jews said so for the last 100 years
Yeah good one bro
>Ethno-nationalism is the control of one territory by one ethnic group
this was all of europe before like the 1980's implicitly. even early 2000's arguably.
Civic natuonalism is just a first drep toward ethnic nationalism
Trump's civic nationalism has an inherent white bias which is why the left and non whites and jews are so up in arms
By inherent white bias i mean that he maintains the current demographics without importing mass numbers of non- europeans and also emphasizes our european history and culture. This to the left and non whites is. Ow considered racist
Trump is civic nationalism because he wishes to help the black community by helping it build business even tho the mass of blacks will fight tooth and nail against him while certain black leaders will accept him because they understand it would benefit them long term
Wah these white people who've lived side by side throughout history aren't the same they're as different as Tolnologoulais from the Congo
>How is Germans massacring Poles because they're not Germans not ethnic conflict?
Yes it is ethnic conflict, you are correct
But I have to say one thing. Can't you see that I replied to your point in >Civic nationalism is the only thing that can salvage a state from ethnic conflict within a nation.
Germans aren't in one nation as Poles
>How is the massacre of the Samurai not an instance of conflict brought on by ethno-nationalism?
How the fuck is that relevant to the simple statement, that
In ethnic nationalism there is no conflict (ethnic conflict to be precise)?
Were is your argument?
>TRSodomite.
8gag confirmed for civic nationalist antifa-enabling jews.
just go back to your containment website please.
The way it should be
What other people at any other period of history would have given away their own countries and lands
Have you ever read the federalist papers - the founding fathers were thrilled that they had a people of common language and english culture and laws
>then you completely missed the point of nationalism
Stopped reading right there. White Nationalism is called White Nationalism because it's not Nationalism. Otherwise it would be called Nationalism.
I love it when civic nationalist meme lords come to get btfo
I never said that it doesn't ever work. I said that a certain kind of white nationalist is retarded.
> there were Irish here before the United States were formed
And were they there forever? Are you fucking stupid? You're the one who doesn't know how English works.
>You don't even know what miscegenation means.
The mixing of ethnic groups, the mixing of races, why would you stick up for anyone who wants to mate with someone who isn't from his own ethnic group? You're implicitly cucking.
>weak
I don't have to exert much strength on you.
Keep telling yourself that, nobody ITT has shown evidence that this was the case. The entire history of Europe consists of groups competing for control of territory. Northern Ireland is currently controlled by your government. As I said there's a difference between imperialism and ethno-nationalism.
I don't understand your point.
This thread is already filling up with people calling 8/pol/ and antifa stronghold so I'm just going to abandon the thread. My point has been proven by the guy who implies that a Norwegian having children by the
How is that not civic nationalism? Common language, culture, and laws aren't a product of a shared genotype, not in the case of the USA, which was multiethnic from its inception (free blacks existed).
Well, 'nationalism' is part of the name, so it's implied that it's a form of nationalism, isn't it?
I just see white nationalism for what it is: fraudulent.
This is a good way to look at it. Civic nationalism stops the bleeding by closing the doors on immigration. Nationalism in the US is more like Geographic Nationalism: if you plop down a child, they're now part of the nation which shouldn't make sense to anyone but it's religion in the new world.
Checkem
>My point has been proven by the guy who implies that a Norwegian having children by the
by a Finn would not result in a child with mixed identities and mixed genes.
We don't seek the deaths of colored countrymen we just do t want competing groups of the same species living together.
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>How is that not civic nationalism? Common language, culture, and laws aren't a product
Because they were all english and for english
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You're responding to too many people and didn't reference my post right. At least you seem genuine and not a troll. But again ethnic nationalism was definitely the standard in Europe in the 19th century. You bought the 20th century lie that ethnic nationalism = hitler. Without 19th Polish nationalism there wouldn't be a Poland or Polish speakers by now.
Hitler made a compelling and accurate observation that as long as there are multiple ethnic groups in a state they will continue to work together only as long as circumstances force them to. They will work together in times of plenty or under the firm rule of an autocrat, but inevitably luck goes bad and strength fails. In those times ethnic tensions mount and violence occurs.
There's a difference between civic nationalism and imperialism. Rome and the USA were both imperialist powers. They weren't nations that incorporated multiple ethnic groups, but rather empires that subjugated multiple ethnic groups. ( for a time )
There's a reason there's white america, black america, hispanic america, and that they're all at each other's throats as they perceive the impending collapse of the empire.
>ignoring the inferiority of niggers
>accepting the mixing of races
>not being fascist
Sounds like (((civic nationalist))) are just globalist in slow motion.
BTFO leddit fag
>TRSodomite
>Sup Forums
>were Irish here forever?
No, strange one, they were here when we formed the United States as a white ethnostate. Some signed our Declaration of Independence. Look into it.
>miscegenation is the mixing of ethnic groups
Not in English, no. It's the mixing of different racial groups.
Did you really just come here to offer some weak support of civic nationalism, coupled with historical ignorance and weak insults?
For what purpose? This utter beating you're taking can't feel good.
That sounds right except for the "moral" bit.
The reason plan B would not work is actually the following:
youtube.com
White people would welcome white nationalism live in nig infested areas. People who are delusional about nigs live in places like New England that are already more nig free and would be better candidates for the real estate intended white nation.
>White people would welcome
White people *who would welcome
Sure. The plan B is there just for the sake of demand for plan B dramatically rising up in the low probability case that plan A doesn't work out.
It's White Nationalism because it recognizes Nation States, which should be organized along racial/ethnic lines.
Instead of say, monarchic dinasties, nomad tribes or religion.
If the only thing you have in common with your fellow countrymen is a mere label, then don't be shocked if either they or you lose your faith in each other.
Nationality used to mean something other than blind devotion to your state; it used to also imply a devotion to your people or race. Non-homogenous countries generally don't tend to last very long anyway.
The first immigration bill in 1790 explicitly states the US as a nation of and for whites.