Communism Thread

Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.

Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.

What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:

>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.

>Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."

>To acheive such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

ML uses a philosophy called dialectical materialism, see here:

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm

It is reccomended that you read some of the critical works of Marxism-Leninism so you can make an informed assessment of the ideology.

Resources:

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/sw/

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/decades-index.htm

marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=KxcP7TRY178
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Fuck off, lunatic

No (

No please fuck off you communist mutt

Finally, the ape is gone :)

Fuck off shill

u r a faget

You mean the Spaniard?

communism is so good that they had to build a wall to keep the capitalists from western europe out

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What do you mean comrade?

That was state capitalism. Instead of giving the workers control over the means of production they just gave the state control.

>mfw

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>b-but nobody has actually tried REAL communism

Get fucked, leftist scum.

>Marxist-Leninism
>Not Anarcho-Syndicalism

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Pretty sure Communism was the stage before Capitalism

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This is just the copy pasta. I support syndicalism.

>its the same 3 guys bumping each others threads all the time
Sage

That was feudalism.

>Making the argument that worker-based communism wouldn't or couldn't work from the context of periods with significantly less technological infrastructure and access of knowledge
>Still defending a system that has had demonstrable problems for years on the grounds that a previously existing communist state that was overthrown due to war and treachery, stopped working
I think there are problems with communist thought but this argument is just stupid.

Here's a difficult question, which is more ridiculous "flat earth theory" or "communism"?

Prove that they did practice communism.

>implying

we wuz comrades n shiet I swear to god

A communist economic system would be characterized by advanced productive technology that enables material abundance, which in turn would enable the free distribution of most or all economic output and the holding of the means of producing this output in common. In this respect communism is differentiated from socialism, which, out of economic necessity, restricts access to articles of consumption and services based on one's contribution.

>demonstrable problem
>"WHY ISN'T EVERYTHING FREE"

>why does everyone have to work when our factory's can provide a good life for everyone?
>why do workers make so little and capitalists so much?
>why are people so unhappy in capitalism?

Capitalism works just fine for people that can compete in a meritocracy.. only the failures suffer which is why they hate it. Now get back to bussing tables

>our factories
>implying centralized government can control the means of production with efficiency anywhere near current levels

You could narrow it down to that if you want, or you could look at
>Massive greenhouse gas emissions (inb4 jewish propaganda)
>Boom-bust cycles of a bull economy that has literally killed people, within and outside of the US border
>A ridiculous healthcare system that results in rapidly rising healthcare costs in an economy where wages are stagnating
>Intense divisions amongst the people on largely political grounds
You can strawman all you want but this is just a small list of shit going in America that is becoming more and more significant and glaring.

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Do you honestly think that in capitalism there is equal opportunity? If your born into a super rich family you obviously have more of a chance then people born homeless without an education.

>implying I want centralized planning

The pic is fitting - Lenin was absolutely bourgeois.

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Neither do comunist practice communism - most of them are rich fucks.

You have to have centralized planning if you do away with markets.

Post some Zizek or go fuck yourself

>what is decentralized planning?

hahaahahaahahaaha.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

How many factories do you have, non-worker?

Sounds great, tell me how that works out for you.

Feudalism>imperialism>communism>capitalism

I meant our factories as a society's factories.

I thought Lenin was state capitalist, not communist. Which is it, rich kid?

>boom-bust cycles of a bull economy
>of a bull economy

This dumb shit is why communism doesn't work. All you retards pretend to be experts in economic yet you mangle even the most basic facts.

It worked pretty nicely in makhonivist Ukraine, Catalonia, Rojava, Democratic socialist Chile, anarchist Korea and The Zapitasta communes.

The Spaniard worships state capitalist's. Ignore him.

Oh yes, how could I forget such exceptional economies...

>Minor mental hiccup on an anonymous image board is now responsible for the collective intelligence of thousands of human beings
I'm sure you haven't made a similar mistake in your entire lifetime. Perfectionists defending a flawed system and making syntax mistakes in the same post. Sad!

Societies factories? Did you pay for them, took the risk? Oh wait, you didn't just like every communist ever. Entitled leeches, just like your papa Marx.

>minor mental hiccup

No, you're just a pretentious hipster who dropped out before taking economics.

You think its ethical that properly utilized all of the countries companies could end world hunger but we haven't done it?

>Trying to destabilize my argument because I incorrectly referred to a basic economic term, instead of addressing any of the points mentioned
>Then calls me the pretentious one
Sad!

You think it's ethical for the government to steal the property of every business?

I still don't think if you are a fucking troll or oblivious retard, if you use this pic to support your dumb pipe dream.

Do you realize that 'workers freely decide how long they work' and 'there is abundance of everything' is next to each other in that pic.

You really are no worker, aren't you? Just another academia fuck.

Yes because it rightfully belongs to the workers as they do the work that keeps the company going. The boss is unnecessary and could be replaced by a democracy and all he does is steal surplus labor.

Your points are just extensions of your fundamental misunderstanding of economics.

>hurr durr, just put the government in charge of everything, they would never do anything against the interests of its own citizens

>the boss is unnecessary

Fuck off. The labor theory of capital has been debunked a hundred times since Marx died. It completely ignores the value of properly timed investments and the creativity of the entrepreneur.

We want the workers to control there own companies. not the government.

Anarcho-Syndicalism rejects the notions of unified government AND business, you fucking retard.
>Depressive economic states in the US never existed because this guy accidentally replaced the word "market" with "economy"
If you know so much about what you're saying, prove it, instead of just rephrasing posts or making ad hominems.

Well he can be replaced by a democracy instead of the equivalent of a dictatorship.

There are very few 'Marxist-Leninists' on Sup Forums, or even many people that know what that is.

The threads should be made more general, under the philosophy of being united against capitalism

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I don't want to hear shit about ethic from a communist.
Since you are so concerned about world hunger, you have already started a company and use all of its profits to fight world's hunger, haven't you?
Also there is nothing I want more than to provide food to some lazy African nigger so that he can have twenty kids instead of just ten.

youtube.com/watch?v=KxcP7TRY178

If co-ops worked better, then we would see more of them. The market has shown how inefficient they are.

>dictatorship

Nobody is forced to work anywhere. It's a voluntary exchange of time for money. If you want to buy the latest iPhone and drive a BMW, you have to work, but there's nothing stopping you from going innawoods and farming.

Plus I believe that labor is worth what it create. So if you bake a cake and sell it for 20 bucks your labor is worth 20 bucks.

>Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society
No society is classless. Even in anarchy, certain people will yield disproportionate power whether its due to diplomatic maneuvering or raw strength. This person will have trusted friends who have more influence than those under them.

Similarly, any society which is stateless by definition has a power vacuum which is inevitably resolved. To ensure a state does not arise, it is necessary to have a group which will enforce this statelessness, and by doing so, you give them elevated privileges and create a classful society, contradicting the definition you give of communism. This means that a truly communist society is both theoretically and in practice, impossible to exist.

No society in all of history has ever been classless, and no modern society with living standards better than the stone age is stateless, not even your faux communist societies which have failed repeatedly because of their insistence on refusing reality and fighting against the natural order of a hierarchical society. The only difference between each failed attempt at a communist society is the zealousness which its ideologues have pursued this fairy tale, and the degree of suffering it results in, from gulags to Holodomor to political persecution to mass starvation. The only redeeming trait of a communist society is that it kills communists.

>work or starve
>voluntary
>not wage slavery.
Stop

Coops preform better than companies but because of brainwashing by the capitalist class there are very few.

That's retarded. Your labor is worth whatever you can demand for it.

>starve

Is there anything stopping you from fucking off and farming in the middle of nowhere?

I'm working on a new OP copy pasta.

>capitalists are greedy
>capitalists just haven't started many co-ops because they're brainwashed

>That's retarded. Your labor is worth whatever you can demand for it.

Explain.

>live in wilderness
>work at hunting, gathering or starve
>not nature slavery
Stop

>Is there anything stopping you from fucking off and farming in the middle of nowhere?

Yes. The state which enforces private property and also social conditioning.

I'm pointing out that no system beside maybe a gift economy is voluntary so you can stop using the CAPITALISM IS VOLUNTARY XDXDXD

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Not me, not my colleagues, not engineers, not middle managers, not the traders want to have the responsibility of our boss. If you ever worked anywhere, you would know that.

Only good thing that commies did when they usurped power here was when they shot and imprisoned the academia fucks that shilled for communism.

Because they can't make profit from it

But the capitalists can't make profit from it and they own all the surplus wealth.
The market creates what's 'most efficient' at getting money for investors.
That's not an objective measure of what's 'most efficient' full stop

I thought that is state capitalist music?

Your labor is just another commodity in the market, beholden to the same market pressures as any other commodity.

>capitalism
>work or starve
>communism
>work and still starve

Gee, I wonder what is better.

But when you work in a company you generate some form of value. This is proven by the fact that when the workers go on strike the company stops making money. And if the capitalists pay you less they can get more proving that you are generating some value.

I'm pointing out that it is as voluntary as nature is. You can choose to refrain from capitalism, just as you can with nature, and you might even get a darwin award for it :^)

So pay up or get shot is just as voluntary as nature?

Sure, but how could you begin to calculate that value? The majority of the productivity is due to capital investments by the owner.

No, work or starve is nature. Shooting isn't involved (at least, not in western society) unless you decide to be a dick, but then again, if you were a dick in a hunter-gather tribe you'd probably end up beaten to death, and frankly I'd say the shooting is more merciful.

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Take the boss out of the equation and see what the workers do without him. Then they can get the full value they generated. If the company falls apart then its clear that the boss is needed if it doesn't he's unnecessary.

>see what the workers do with him

The wonderful thing about America is that people are free to create a company without leadership. Go ahead. Let me know how it works out.

please kill this bot thread

You put a tax on the workers equal to the rental value of the capital
After their other costs and after they make what revenue they can, the difference will be down to their labour alone

Coops work pretty nicely there just aren't very many of them due to the sort of mindset your exhibiting now.

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