Atheist: Given billions of years, this device will construct itself from raw materials

>Atheist: Given billions of years, this device will construct itself from raw materials.

Other urls found in this thread:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=wvbODsfC-lQ
healthland.time.com/2012/09/06/junk-dna-not-so-useless-after-all/
news-medical.net/life-sciences/Functions-of-Junk-DNA.aspx
sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1367593114001264
biology-pages.info/A/AbioticSynthesis.html
cbsnews.com/news/culture-etched-onto-our-dna-more-than-previously-known-research-says/
genengnews.com/gen-news-highlights/epigenetic-signatures-partly-biological-partly-cultural/81253693?utm_medium=newsletter&utm_source=GEN News Highlights of the Week&utm_content=01&utm_campaign=GEN News Highlights of the Week_20170114
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

...

that is technically correct yes

...

Christians: be stupid

I'm catholic but this idiotic Athiesm vs. Christianity shit needs to stop.

>Theist: why hasn't an inorganic object incapable of self-replication just randomly popped up if evolution is true?

Nope. The meassure is not low Entropy although that comes with it. Its reproduction rate. If one molecule could reproduce faster than just random atoms sticking together it had an unbelievable advantage. With slight changes came improvements given the particular fitness function. A changing fitness function/ environment gave birth to different species which evolved really fucking slowly into us. Thouse you can create local low entropy with the Energy that is supplied by the Sun even though Entropy in the Universe is only increasing.

So if you find me something that does not reproduce but still has incredlible detail i will be stunned. That is just a clock made by humans.

it does

m.youtube.com/watch?v=wvbODsfC-lQ

Theist: Find a natural process that produces DNA

> What is spontaneous order?

fuck off with your reddit posts

it makes a thing spin in a circle. such technology. very future wow.

>DNA, a bunch of atoms stuck together, such technology, very future wow.

you.

Well where do you think it came from, retard?

You think god made it?

>Atheist: Given billions of years, this device will construct itself from raw materials.
Only if simpler devices could sex each other up to reproduce (or do so by mitosis), have the weaker offspring die off, or get eaten by predators.

Repeat that sequence millions of times and the species known as "watches" develop over time to counteract environmental pressures that would otherwise eliminate them from existence. A species cannot progress if the weaker specimens amongst it don't die off or otherwise fail to spread their relatively weaker genes.

Then yes.

Honestly, given the infinite expanse of the universe and billions of years, yes it HAS constructed itself already, somewhere.

Surely you must know this, right?

>universe reckoned to be billions of years old

>OP pic does in fact exist

??? Are humans not part of the universe?

What are you even implying lmfao

yes, this is how all living clocks work

m lady

well technically humans did evolve and then construct those

so I guess yes you're rght, given the same conditions at the begininng of the universe a watch will come into creation like 11 billions years later

>DNA
>white slime*

Atoms have electric charges and huge distances between them. They are not sticky.

well its here isnt it

Well it did, from the universes viewpoint it 'constructed' 'itself' :^)

You think you're being smart, but you're a retard. I'm not a Christian btw, just had to tell you the truth.

don't worry, 1800 dead clocks are just as useful as one live one. all you have to do is put them in a circle with a stick in the centre and the sun will point at the one with the correct time.

cave-tier technology ugh.

>ad hominem with no elaboration

Why do I even bother replying?

Yes.

the sun of man?

The DNA molecule functions eerily similarly to a data packet in the information systems world. Yes, molecules bind to other molecules because of valence shell bonding. Yes nature can produce seemingly ordered structures such as snowflakes and tornadoes. The difference between a snowflake and a DNA molecule, is that a DNA molecule is a coded piece of information. It is read by parts of the cell. It is written when copies by other parts of the cell. It even has error checking built in! You plebs are crazy if you think that is not a process that is driven by a mind. Code does not come from nature. Chaos produces static, not music.

RNA is more likely than this.
And given billions of years, over billions of billions of planets (in the known universe alone), yeah it could have constructed itself.

We really aren't as complex as you think if you could grasp the concept of just how much time that really is, all sorts of crazy things are bound to happen. And a machine like that would have to happen randomly, we have harsh enviornments, a need of energy (a way to consume), physical crushing, etc. that encourage us to develope through DARWINISM.

Please stop. I thought the days of edgy atheists trying to push their shit down others throats was over, please don't you start as well. Why must people fight over religion so much

>RNA will replicate on its own given it has the energy to do so
>piece of metal will not
Why do these threads gain so much traction? Why can't intelligent and informative threads make it on this board? it's always some retarded thing christians believe athiests believe vs some retarded thing athiests believe christians believe?

You gave a definitive statement which there is no reason to suspect is true, because it sounded impressive. In fact it was as mystical as the religious BS you think you're debunking. I call that retarded.

>we don't have the science or understanding to explain it, so therefore it must be God
This shit got old 600 years ago, man. Give it a rest.

"I don't know so therefore god" argument.

the fact that it exists proves that the watch has created itself.

>eerily similarly to a data packet
it has source and destination adresses and ports? frame check sequences? flags? sequence numbers?

>It even has error checking built in!
six base pairs with one redundant bit would be vastly, hugely more efficient than the transcription process humans currently use, which is only 20 amino acids being made by over 60 triplet pairs. Our current system is 99% viral repeats and literally 1% phenotype.

So tell me it's fancy and cool and beautiful, but never tell me it's efficient, effective or "designed to perfection" because damn that's dumb.

Feel free to point out any actual flaws in my reasoning.

Also note the qualifying statement:
>given the infinite expanse of the universe

If the universe is not infinite, then the statement is no longer valid. However, there is no reason to believe that it is NOT infinite.

No and no.

We do know where code comes from. It comes from

a) intelligence
b) design

This is testable and repeatable. Unlike

a) big bang theory
b) multiverse theory
c) pre-universe quantum fluctuations giving rise to matter.

I agree, I can't say with 100% certainty that the code of life was designed by intelligence, but what I have observed (science) in life, and what I know about causal relationships (science), points to design.

welcome to Sup Forums kiddo

can you tell me anything about junk DNA? does it get processed or skipped? why do we have so much?

saying evolution is true is like saying children have their parents DNA
if it was true you'd get kids that look somewhat like their parents but that never ever has happened

traits have never been observed to be passed from an organism to it's descendants

there has NEVER been a case of an organism with a mutation that causes it to die or not even be born

FPBP

Evidence of the big bang can be observed and measured.

This so much. Evolution btfo, no kid looks like their parents, you ever seen a baby with an adult face

It's there to prevent security exploits - if a virus enters your body, but your dna already has the virus' dna encoded, what's the point of it replicating inside you?

>hurdurr evolution

Nice try but the watch cant build itself so >checkm8 atheistfag

Go turn the other cheek, christcuck

healthland.time.com/2012/09/06/junk-dna-not-so-useless-after-all/

how is japan so fucking based

Takes 2 seconds to type it in google
news-medical.net/life-sciences/Functions-of-Junk-DNA.aspx
>article made by an MD medical scientist
>with sources in the article
Plus more pages on the google searches about "why" they exist.

Aliens, thats all. We were created by some superior race.

And begin functioning inexplicably.

As soon as raw metallic materials don't have any mechanism of making their copies I highly doubt your otherwise interesting theory.

>16-year old Sup Forums shitposter: Makes clumsy thread on subject there are entire books written about
Read Dawkin's "The Blind Watchmaker" to find out how retarded you are, op.

So if there's no reason to believe god does NOT exist, that's proof that he does? No, that's proof that we don't fucking know. Same with the universe's size.

The better argument was what said. Humans came to be through natural selection and billions of years of trial and error, not sheer odds.

While it's possible, it's a lazy conclusion. It leaves interpretation of god and dismisses any further questions of how molecular building blocks lead to life today.

Say they seeded the earth with the right building blocks. How did lead to everything we see today? Those are the questions that need to be answered.

hmm, posibly true, but likely? does the virus scan every time to see if it exists there?

thanks, will read tomorrow

I trust anons more than jewgle

it's certainly possible, apart from mexicoons

flawless

>Code does not come from nature. Chaos produces static, not music.
>hurr durr what is chaos theory

Wow. This stupid.

Why would a watch evolve to be a watch? How is any part of a watch the result of a series of changes of state?


Let's go further. If you didn't know it was a watch, how is that differentiated from any random configuration of elements?

How do you know in the entire universe that that same configuration of elements, or any configuration of element that you would think was a watch didn't exist?

And if you exist and make a watch, how is that different than anything else that exists because it grows or develops or evolves? Would an alien made of the smell of your farts have any story in its brain to distinguish you and your watch from randomness?

This is your problem. You believe stories that are not useful to be believed.

And in doing so, you miss God completely, preferring your silly stories over his Majesty that is all around you. That is what the third commandment says.....

Not quite.

Though I do think something else is driving life, mutation rates dont cut it really. While scientists base mutation rates can estimate that life did develop within a reasonable time frame, when you add that successful mutations not only needed to adapt to the environment (which seems to be all biologists care about when forming their base mutation calculations) but also fit in with previous mutations and the organisms systems the timescale blows out by a fair bit.

For example, a organism isn't just a shell that is designed to withstand its environment, it has many interlocking systems inside like clockwork, if one tiny thing is out it wont work. When you add that each system has to interlock perfectly with each other it creates much more complexity rather than the current way its done as it assumes near enough is good enough.

technically it did if you consider human labor a raw material

Catholic: Given billions of years, small mutations build up to evolutionary advantageous traits

Protestant: Given billions of years, small mutations build up to evolutionary advantageous traits

American """Christian""": I can't wait for Jamal to fuck my wife!

you need to read more....

>Atheist: It has...
>Theist: (autistic screeching)

>jewgle
It's not from jewgle.. it's from a medical life science journal, you idiot. Google is just a search engine. I can reach the same article from fucking safari or bing or even opera.

sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1367593114001264

biology-pages.info/A/AbioticSynthesis.html

answer: it probably started as a single strand (RNA) in some kind of molecular soup full of organic (carbon based) materials. while this is hard and extreamly rare, that won't really matter because 1. there is so much material to work with and 2. there is basically unlimited time to wait for the perfect combination of materials and conditions.

Yes, we certainly could have come from luck. However, luck is certain given enough time.

Then us Earthniggers should sterilize ourselves as eugenics to give the Earth to the true Xeno master race. If you don't have naturally blue hair and yellow eyes you are üntermensch.

You can't prove intelligent design isn't a product of natural trial and error (AKA natural selection).

"I can't say with 100% certainty that the code of life was designed by intelligence, but what I have observed (science) in life, and what I know about causal relationships (science), points to design."

You can't prove it therefore it holds no weight to anyone but yourself.

And it's pretty much the exact same conclusion as the other user posted... I thought you britbongs were suppose to be reasonable.

What do you consider worse?

Religious fags trying to btfo atheists online?
Atheist fags trying to btfo religious people online?

Personally I find both as bad as each other

What are you going on about? I'm not even talking about proof, I'm talking about assumptions and qualifying statements.

Assuming that the universe it infinite, then the rest of my statement holds true. We do have reasons to believe that it's infinite, but we don't know for sure. Hence the assumption.

>How is any part of a watch the result of a series of changes of state?

What is the manufacturing process?

>If you didn't know it was a watch, how is that differentiated from any random configuration of elements?

If I didn't know it was a watch, I could look at it and tell it was quite different. If I showed you 20 pictures, 19 being natural objects, and one being an object that was manufactured, I bet you could pick on the manufactured object.

>And if you exist and make a watch, how is that different than anything else that exists because it grows or develops or evolves?

It's completely different. One object was constructed by mind, the other objects were constructed by blind forces.

Given an infinite timeline, all things probable can become possible. It's really that simple.

Btw, the logic fallacy with the watch is that you assume bio machines necessarily start out complex when in fact they were far more likely to be very crude and simplistic.

The immune system is plastic and reactive, it wouldn't be a linear scan, it would be a chemical one and happen much faster - if the virus transcribes certain factors or proteins, the body would react against them baed on their concentration in the body, as either part of itself - (therefore send the extra parts back into recycling) or as an enemy, covering it in microphage spooge and rendering it useless.

We are static you dumb nigger. Learn information theory and then organic chemistry before you open up your dumb fucking mouth to talk about things you don't understand.

...

>DNA
Not DNA, DNA cannot replicate on its own. guy is more right. RNA can replicate and encode genetic information(if my cellular biology class memory serves right), but DNA encodes information better and more "efficiently" leading to more variety than RNA can. An RNA, or RNA-like, world was more likely in the beginning.

>Read Dawkin's

Did the radiation get to ur head or were you japs always this retarded? No wonder we nuked your cities.

you said to jewgle

I said I trusted you more than they

will read

are you upset? now is not the time to be upset, that comes later

t strayan

>microphage spooge
ok, I'm convinced

ok, then you must accept the same about the big bang, and evolution. neither of those can be proven, only inferred from present observation. you're shooting yourself in the foot there if you believe any of the moden thesis's about origins.

>this is testable and repeatable
dunning kruger m8

Wasn't it Plato (I'm probably wrong) who talked about you g children being able to differentiate a chair, no matter what its shape, size, color, etc, from a random L shaped object, or anything else? Somehow we're supposed to have an innate sense of what objects are and if they are natural. You don't come across a perfect honeycomb and think the shapes must have been carved out by a person. I'm just rambling, bit drunk.

>Assumption
Hence your argument fell apart and u acttly managed to lose against christians. Use logic and trap them in a corner. It's a lot easier than basing your whole argument on something we don't know.

This was written by the head of the Human Genome Project. Pretty sure he knows more about DNA than anyone on this board, and he says that random processes are not a candidate for how DNA came to be the information-carrying molecule for life.

Good read.

infinity is a childish and very limiting concept. do away with it at once. it's really that simple. infinity does not exist in any form, never will, cannot.

1) find a piece of code
2) ask yourself "can I prove this has a designer"
3) prove or disprove the code you found has a designer
4) repeat

problem m8?

>I trust anons more than jewgle
Maybe I'm autistic and thinking too hard, but I deducted that you put my opinion to the side for simply mention google.

Surprised there isn't a religion based on it all being a simulation and God is the Great Programmer. They just set it up to observe how life works over time to figure out life within their wn universe and to borrow any great ideas the inhabitants come up with. If you're really good, cool and not an arsehole, they let you into "heaven" by extracting you from the simulation and give you a body in the "real universe"

>prove or disprove the code has a designer
Yeah this part

It's okay guy, you got it mostly correct. These other anons will know soon enough.

cbsnews.com/news/culture-etched-onto-our-dna-more-than-previously-known-research-says/

genengnews.com/gen-news-highlights/epigenetic-signatures-partly-biological-partly-cultural/81253693?utm_medium=newsletter&utm_source=GEN News Highlights of the Week&utm_content=01&utm_campaign=GEN News Highlights of the Week_20170114

no bruv, I could search fo rshit but I wouldn't know if it was valid or useful, or some useless bullshit. but there was a much better chance some user would bring me the treasure I seek

But, it did!

Bang! A supermassive black hole explodes or whatever your model might be based upon.

Billions of years later, galaxies form stars, some stars form solar systems, and on at least one planet within those solar systems Humans evolve from microscopic organisms.

Humans form small tribes and start farming, develop a calendar and engineer devices make farming easier.

One such device is a clock.

The inanimate clock has emerged from raw materials as a byproduct of Human existence, which is nothing more than a reaction.

That's why you check for sources on the articles (if none, discard or look for the mentioned scientist and his/her publications). Usually leads to the juicy stuff you put in your research reports.