I fail to understand how its relevant to the USA. Regardless of what anyone thinks we are in fact the most powerful country economically and in military strength.
Inb4 muh GDP. Its irrelevant. Paper money has no value. Oil, Land, Natural resources, and ability to defend those objects with violence is all that really matters at the end of the day.
Can anyone explain to me why we should really care about the national debt? Honestly what can the rest of the world do if we dont decide to pay up these imaginary dollars?
It's hippy nonsense. Just keep spending, it'll all be fine.
Nolan Cox
awww sweetie, first year economics its --> that way
Ryan Gray
stupid mother fucker
Ryan Cook
he just watched zeitgeist and has come to redpill pol the venus project is real in our minds
Carson Gonzalez
>Honestly what can the rest of the world do if we dont decide to pay up these imaginary dollars?
The majority of our debt is actually held by people/organizations in the US. So foreign credit isn't as important to us as a lot of other countries, but by not paying we'd be fucking over ourselves.
David Lopez
No arguments I see. Ill assume im right then. If no one can come and claim the debt we have built up by force than it isnt a real debt. Its just an empty threat that holds no meaning
Jordan Evans
Explain how. I dont know anything about the debt meme other than it being held over our heads
Benjamin Campbell
How can debt be real if our eyes aren't rea
Daniel Cox
>t. Krugman
Blake Perez
what were you expecting? >America is evil >Stop printing money >fiat system is futile >deflate the currency >gold standard
we're not teenagers anymore
Zachary Turner
It should be the jew that kicks it and coloured people inside the cann. While the white man tries to run away from it.
David Cox
We arent evil. Your country is just weaker than ours which is intimidating.
Jordan Reyes
When organizations aren't able to pay back debts within the country's organizations though those organization's and the US's credit score/rating will be hurt heavily greatly reducing the ability of the government to get loans from both foreign and domestic organizations and thus drastically reducing possible spending.
Joseph Nelson
you really are new ay?
Juan Jones
No the national debt is a problem. When a nation is in debt their citizens are usually also in debt. Look at us today. The average US citizen is in large amounts of debt. Just a coincidence right? The government makes money off your student loans which is why they want you to go to college. US being the most powerful nation in the world is the only reason this debt hasn't hurt us more.
Jace Gonzalez
well if it were around 1st world war or 2nd you might be right, but the problem with modern wars is exactly $$$, everything costs money. let's say you dont pay up just because you have a big army today, tomorrow you will need to pay the men; where you gonn get the $ ? who is ever gonna give you money again? and do you know that a big chunk of that debt is owed to US itself?
Landon Sanders
No been here for 5ish years now. America is not evil thats a stupid Idea. An entire country of people cant be evil. They can be dumb amd powerful but not all evil. Everyone needs to sleep at night
Elijah Reyes
Have you tried googling? It ain't a hard concept to grasp. That's a pretty good summary.
Blake Brown
So is the national an average of the populations debt? Or is it what our govt owes other countries? I alwayd thought it was what we owed other countries
Zachary Hughes
the green textis what I suspected you were expecting
>we're not teenagers anymore I wrote that because those ideas are what a lot of us were thinking when we were teenagers but grew out of when we became adults
Ian Brown
jews
Josiah Torres
No, try googling "National Debt and why it matters" and tell me what you find. I can tell you without looking it up that its going to be 80% propaganda from all directions
Liam Davis
> Oy vey Goyim, keep going into debt to buy more consumer goods! Send all your shekels to the gooks, they dindu nothin'
Nathan Russell
you know what Spain did to reduce debt in the late 1400's?
Andrew Ross
Oh my misunderstanding. Im just curious how it works, how its calculated, and why it matters really
Jason Hughes
National and personal debt are totally different and have next to nothing to do with one another. National debt has nothing to do with how indebted citizens are, that's just a function of a lot of people here being retarded and not knowing how to budget, buying houses above their price range, living in expensive areas, and using credit cards stupidly. Those people have no control over government spending policies.
Jonathan Collins
Holy shit literally wikipedia explains it you, if you want to really go in depth and actually understand economics I suggest you read a book.
Bush and Trump killing our children with their fiscal irresponsibility!!!
Seriously, the Dems are too busy sacrificing their children to Moloch or PizzaGate'ing them.
Ryder Hughes
>been here for 5ish years I don't believe you
Benjamin Cruz
I have no debt myself. I pay cash for everything I buy. I just want to know exactly what the debt is and why it matters
Eli Howard
Maybe I want to actovely debate and hear live opinions from others instead of reading an article
Andrew Jenkins
Here's the redpill: We have no money.
We have. No Money.
---and we owe money.
Wyatt Roberts
That's fine. I lurk most of the time so my shitposting isnt up to Dingo ate my baby standards
Aaron Lewis
Sounds like its time for a war then brother
Caleb Davis
>brother you meant comrade didn't you
Eli Rodriguez
> I want to watch uneducated spergs incoherently freaking out on a Liberian crocheting board about something totally unrelated instead of usefully educating myself about something that's easy to access and not even hard to understand Entertaining, but stupid and a waste of the board. Kys
Joseph Allen
Everything here is a waste
Jaxson Ward
To be perfectly honest i mostly just want to pretend I have people in my life because ive spent the last 3 months completely isolated and have been fighting the temptation to blow my brains out due to life turning shitty. But Im also interested in others opinions
Ancestors>Country in all regards. If you dont believe that then you have a faulty moral compass
Blake Jenkins
in Spain the gov owed them money so they made usury lending deemed a sin and an act against the church relieved the country of debt >fun fact: that debt was what paid for a bunch of Christian churches
but the transition process from fiat currency to some other standard would be bloody, even if everyone agreed to it, which would never happen
Jaxson Sullivan
You argue that the debt is infalliable in one post but the next you argue banning your loan sharks will relieve you of your debts?
Angel Flores
OP when you get a social security number or whatever your county issues to citizens after birth it creates a corporation version of you. The government then uses their citizens ssn as collateral with the international banks. They secure their loans with your tax dollars as the collateral so you are actually directly in debt in a way. Governments are also now corporations and it's all based on navel maritime law instead of common law. Your SSN is also traded as a bond on the stock market and if you dig enough you can find the company or country that owns your SSN. If you look on the back of your card it has a receipt number and that is the # of your bond. In effect it's just a bond that generates income for the bonds lifespan. When you go to court your name will be printed on all documents in capital letters, that signify a corporation and not an actual person so they can get around the Magna Carta
Benjamin King
no, I am not condoning those actions some user said jews and that relates to jews and debt without becoming a Rothschild/Rockefeller meme
Wyatt Ward
Suicide is pretty ambiguous on a moral level. In my case I have no family left and my wife and I divorced years ago. So really its just my choice. Wouldnt affect anyone other than whatever charity decides to pocket what inheritance I leave them to buy a new cabin in colorado
Cameron Jones
I guess he is kinda right what if the American people say you know what fuck this debt and fuck you we ain't paying shit, no one can't mess with the USA alone
Jace Perry
Did not know that. I thought it was just like a citizen number
Xavier Wright
Now that I think about it thats pretty fucked. I never signed a contract. I can see where libramemians are coming from now about the taxation being theft
Justin Thomas
Trips say Paco spreads the word of kek
John Smith
Ya if you look into it enough it is actually really fucked up. its probably the dirtiest trick played on all of us
Julian Thomas
I fail to understand how its relevant to the USA. >So ask. Regardless of what anyone thinks we are in fact the most powerful country economically and in military strength. >False. Economically china/india will surpass us Inb4 muh GDP. Its irrelevant. Paper money has no value. Oil, Land, Natural resources, and ability to defend those objects with violence is all that really matters at the end of the day. >Until we fail under debt and Indochina rules forever among the stars Can anyone explain to me why we should really care about the national debt? Honestly what can the rest of the world do if we dont decide to pay up these imaginary dollars? >It's not just the rest of the world, our citizens buy Treasury bonds and the value of many things correlate with Treasury bonds (bonds have low "risk free" rates)
Tl;dr nobody will lend to us at reasonable rates if we don't manage it and even shit tier countries usually don't default on bonds
Samuel Wood
Nothing to do about it though. We are all fucked in the end regardless
Brandon Thompson
That is exactly why they loose it. The magna carta recognized everyone's inherent worth and sovereignty legally and it's what ended slavery. The SSN gets around that
Dominic King
So when old folks get their social security checks is it just like them getting some money back from whoever owned them before? Or is it totally seperate
Austin Howard
You can still manipulate the legal system if your interested in looking into it enough. Up here lots of people stopped paying taxes right at the end of the 1990's as this was all figured out and a legal paper was being circulated you could submit to the government to tell them to fuck off and not have to pay taxes as they are technically illegal. They passed a law after about 3 years of it starting to pick up steam so they could tax and jail and discard the Magna Carta.
Carter Turner
That's different and insurance kind of. They are basicly slowing out a small amount of the interest they made back the person to keep them happy. Look up fractional reserve banking if your bored also. That's how all our financial systems are run and when you actually understand how they are doing it you won't beleive it
Joseph Adams
Dolling not slowing
Cameron Collins
Great info big shoots. I appreciate it
Nathaniel Thompson
No prob man. Look up "the money masters" and see if you can find that first I'd suggest. It goes back to Rome basicly and explains how all the financial systems have been run sinse then
Jayden White
Paper money has exactly as much value as we choose to give it.
The Debt is just our obligations going forward x number of years. Lots of people like to talk about how the debt is gorillion dollars, but they never tell you that's spread out over 20 to 40 years, and they always adjust the timeframe for the most political impact. Being in debt is not a bad thing if you manage and don't overspend. Few people could afford to pay cash for a house, and few people would call you irresponsible for going into debt to buy a house you can afford the monthly payments on. Some things need to be paid over a period of years, that's just the way it is. Infrastructure, Defense Acquisitions, R&D, etc. Social Security and Medicare debts are basically the Government taking a loan from itself, and this makes up a significant portion of our national debt. These entitlement programs are "everybody pays in, everybody gets paid out'
The DEFICIT is how much we spend over our annual budget than we collect in taxes, and our DEFICIT is what needs to be under control.
Unlike your credit card debt, nobody actually owns the US just because they buy US Treasury Bonds. They can't forclose, because WE set the terms and conditions and they can't just call us up and demand all of their money back right now like your credit card company can do. If they did, they would forfeit a significant percentage of that money. But even if they could do that, we also control the money supply, so we could easily print more money to pay off said debt. Politicians who compare Government Debt with your debt are stupid liars.
When the Repubs balanced the budget in the late 90s, they still paid for SS and Medicare, but they were able to reduce overall spending to where they had a surplus, so anybody who tells you that SS and MC are THE problem is also lying to you.
Gabriel Brooks
>In 2015, the U.S. spent $223 billion, or 6 percent of the federal budget, paying for interest on the debt.
6% of the budget. You are paying of debt that was made when you weren't even born, every time you pay any tax to your country. Your children will pay of that debt and your grandchildren will. Your parents have been paying for it too.
Oliver Russell
The federal reserve bank is a private, for profit company. I just heard the debt our taxes we are paying off right now are the debt spent from the late 90's. I'm not very optimistic about everyone kids and grand kids when they have to start covering the debt spent today
Logan Scott
I would argue it's a somewhat clever self-perpetuating, interlinked system of value distribution....
Technically those numbers shouldn't concern you...under that system of monetary economics if the human population grows as well our productivity overall in GDP, the growth of debt is inevitable, and all will be fine, so long as people in general can pay off debt, again and again, because this is optimal for the capitalist class, and the status quo we have remains.
I just want to highlight the genius of the system rather in how it creates a relationship between debtor and creditor in such a way that for the most part, one can't exist without the other.
If you decide to stop paying national debt, your credit ranking will go down, you'll get turned down for loans, and black balled from the rest of the world essentially like North Korea, plain and simple, however.
Never mind the fact if you were a country that was heavily invested in by other global powers and organizations, the sort of financial challenges you might cause in the rest of the world !
David Rivera
>sweetie
Is this a new meme? I mean I know tumblr land whales use it as a not so subtle add hominem
Camden Cooper
gotta speculate to accumulate faggot
national debt is really a non issue cause it'll never be paid off ever, by anyone it's just a boogeyman to try and make you more frugal
Blake Jenkins
>I just heard the debt our taxes we are paying off right now are the debt spent from the late 90's
That's a gross oversimplification and also wrong.
Debt comes in the form of federal financial instruments, including Treasury Notes, Treasury Bonds, Treasury Bills, TIPS, well, just have a look here: h ttps://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/products/prod_tbills_glance.htm
These notes come in different time increments ranging anywhere from 1-3 months up to 40 years. Some, like Savings Bonds, may have a maturity date in a few years, but may be held as long as the holder wants and continue accruing interest that way.
On certain instruments, the interest rate is negligible, but it is usually better than a savings account. On some, the interest is paid out anywhere from once to four times annually until the period is over. By the way, all interest earned is taxable, so a portion of the interest ends up back in the system anyway.
So, the debt our taxes are paying off right now includes debt ranging from 39 years ago all the way up until last month.
Noah Davis
>The federal reserve bank is a private, for profit company. Eh, yes and no. Congress has oversight on the Federal Reserve Board and Fed Chairman, just like they do every other government organization.
Ayden Rodriguez
Oh ya. Look at what happened when Bernie sanders wanted to have a look at their books and their official statements as to their relation between them and the us government. They pretty much operate above the law and the controversy of trump wanting to audit the fed wouldn't have been a thing if they were reigned in by the us govt. they are attached at the hip but the oversight I don't agree with
Benjamin Evans
If you or another user has some time, could you enlighten me on what the federal reserve actually does? I know it holds money, lends money to major banks at the prime interest rate, and sometimes buys back t notes, but that can't be it, right?
Joseph Young
>a good post on Sup Forums
how did this happen
Brandon Clark
If people can't pay their debts anymore that provokes a chain reaction: People can't repay their loans -> Banks can't repay their loans to other banks -> Banks either go bankrupt or don't loan anymore -> Companies products don't sell anymore (because people have no money) and can't take a loan -> companies fire people or just close which produces more people who can't repay their loans -> In the meantime the state crashes too because tax revenues collapse.
Now imagine that transposed at the scale of the world because all economices are interconnected today. Now: - either you decide to cancel this debt which will ruin millions of people in just an eyeblink, especially the ones who can't produce direct service or values or can't do it anymore (think people in retirement) - either you force people to repay the debts by selling their goods which will ruin millions of people too, sending them in the streets and even with that you will not be able to repay everything
In both case it is a disaster because you end up with millions of people who can't survive and the state don't have the money to take care of them leading to light social unrest in the best case and hunger and riot in the worst. Now the bigger the debt is the harsher/longer is the crisis.
Ethan Reed
1. Thats a few years ago. Its 20 trillion now.
2. Now you pay a big part of your budget in interest. When that go up from 1 to 2 ℅ in interest rate. those payments double. And of they are 10℅, all your tax base goes to paying interest. 3. When you stop paying, you can not fund anything except with "cash" then you will have no more gibs.
Nr3 is the best option for you guys.
Alexander Gutierrez
You have no idea what you're talking about
Lucas Baker
Send oats plz
Cameron Moore
>I fail to understand how its relevant to the USA. It's not. It's just a good rhetorical weapon to use since most people think the US gov is like a household. You could double the debt and nothing would really change, banks might make a few billion more a year.