Reasonable argument for communism in US?

Found a copy of this on my boyfriend's desk last week.

Two days ago we had an argument because he got butthurt when I said communism being an end game in the US would be madness, and completely impossible.

He got even more butthurt when I told him that both my poverty-born, immigrant parents from S. Korea became successful thanks to nothing but capitalism.

Today, he tried to justify how Castro was actually a good guy. When I tried to talk about parallels between Cuba and N. Korea back in the 70-80's (Kim Jong Il's father ruled at that time), he tried to tell me why I was wrong that N. Korea is at the state it is now thanks in huge part to communism.

He goes on the socialism sub a lot on reddit and I think he just parrots off whatever's on the front page.

Is it time to break up Sup Forums? Or can someone please give me a
reasonable argument for communism?

bump with puppers

this may seem like bait but i'm actually 100% serious

>THE GULAG ARCHIPELAGO

Communism has never worked.

Just keep repeating it.

It depends if he's going to be on the right side of the guaranteed ethnic cleansing or not.

If you're a white nationalist you can't be a communist. Marxism wants to subvert every institution of our culture because it sees it as oppressive to the prol

Cuck girls do exist

>this may seem like bait
Yep

Im conservative if you're hot ill date you.

Racemixing homo is a communist, who woulda thought.

If your significant other is that fucking stupid, you really should break up.

My vote is to continue to talk about how horrible communism is until he agrees or breaks up with you. You have nothing to lose at this point, might as well try to change someone's opinion or at least have some fun.

Castro himself wasn't exactly a communist

When he took over he modeled after the Soviet Union at the time, which had already transitioned out of communism and was more of a social-imperialist state...which was a mistake but the point is he is a model many look after in defying the U.S. and he made hella accomplishments out of the less than optimal resources he had.

I actually read it and to be truly fair it does point out actual flaws with the unrestricted capitalism that was alive back in the 1800's specially considering the unprecedented production boom caused by the industrial revolution and some of the complaints can still apply to the modern era, THAT aside, it is retarded to think that communism/socialism is the answer, it doesn't work, it will never ever work because no low incentives = low productivity = starvation and high inflation for everything.

It has some valid social commentary but other than that, it is an evil book used by the eternal jew to posion the minds of our gullible youth

I'm going to have to use Sup Forums's logic here. Tits & time stamp to prove it. Kek

He's helpless. Leave

He says his dream is a classless society where people aren't motivated by money, but by wanting to simply furhter society (?). While that sounds all beautiful and ideal, I just don't think realistically that would happen. I also don't see why there is a problem with letting more hardworking, intelligent people rise to the top and letting the lazy leeches of society stay at the bottom. But I guess I'll have to read the book myself before I jump to judgment. He made no mention of ethnic cleansing though lol

nice b8, but i'll bite. Tl;dr there is no reasonable argument FOR communism

kill him

All commies should die.

Don't leave, just yet. We can't have of these commie fags walking around. Keep making fun of communism and fighting him on this.

Thanks for the clarification user - I'm certain he did good things during his rule to counter the bad things, which is why opinion on him is so divided. I am not Cuban nor did I read in-depth about Castro's reign in Cuba so I didn't try to argue back about Castro, but instead tried to make comparisons with Kim Il Sung's reign in the 70s to 90s, where N. Korea actually had a higher standard of living at one point - however, all of that went to complete shit after he was influenced by communism. Though one could argue that N. Korea currently isn't really a working example of communism... which is the point, I don't think communism would ever work in practice, even in a homogeneous country like N. Korea.

...

so he's interested in a sort of social nationalism?

Gulags were good but insignificant really.

I can't help feel bad for him because he grew up poor and currently his mom and little brother are unemployed because of health conditions. They have no insurance so they can't get any help so it's kind of a shitty situation to be in. I guess from his point of view, it does seem rather unfair that the "rich get richer while the poor get poorer" but I feel like while there is the 1% who abuse their power and money, most middle to upper-middle class families worked hard and honestly to get to where they are. It does seem unfortunate that the poor in America don't really have a lot of places to go, but at the same time I don't see how establishing communism will fix more problems than it will cause..

>dating a fucking commie and asking for reasons not to leave him
your lack of action proves you deserve to be with him

>reasonable argument for communism
you're a racist

>boyfriend

You're either gay or a female, in both cases no one should listen to your political opinions and you should just shut up please.

Tell him that communism is impossible unless you reach post scarcity. Thats all you need to say. Also whats your league of legends rank?

Communism will NEVER work in the US. Our country was founded on the OPPOSITE of Communism
The only reason we are a major world power is because of CAPITALISM.

I'm actually asking for you guys' political opinions, you are free to ignore my personal opinions. I asked a question I genuinely wanted a response to and turned to none other than Sup Forums

This only started happening rather recently, which is why I am considering leaving him. But I wanted to first try and understand how communism can be a reasonable endgame in US.

>MUH 1%

If you're a business owner who makes more than 30K a year you belong in the 1% when compared to worldwide incomes, so much for evil capitalists huh

another problem: if he likes the non-authoritarian communism he will run into a lot of problems. If everything is to be shared equally, with each additional person born resources will be spread more thinly, and the quality of life for just about everyone will go down eventually. Imagine if all the niggers in Africa just kept on breeding and we have to share equally with them and everyone else. It just cant work. As long as scarcity is an issue it cannot work.

Tits or gtfo.

S Korea is only materially better off because they won the cold war lottery. Korean culture is shit and if left to youreown devices you'd be ruled by yangban or Japan in not time. Korea sucks and I hope Trump makes you go back.

you can thank protestants for capitalism; also daily reminder Jamestown almost failed because for a few years they followed an inherently communist system, but the minute they moved to the free market they thrived

lol fuck off queer I have a few good korean friends. Smart hardworking people and fun to play vidya with.

Why would Trump deport a dual US and Korean citizen?

Also, copying another user's words, "South Korea is fiercely capitalist and yet still manages to have free and high-quality education, national healthcare, very low crime - and incarceration - rates, high respect for police, successful welfare and pension programs, and most importantly, an extremely high life expectancy despite our terrible smoking, drinking, and suicide problem (which I won't deny)."

Really good point user - this is what bothered me the most about his argument but you articulated it way better than I did. I will definitely bring this up with him if he wants to talk about it again.

Well take a look at history and find out for yourself.

Read up on the bolshevik and red revolution. And how well the USSR and Red China regimes treated their political dissidents and common citizenry. They were all living in constant fear and if they didn't praise the Party enough they would be reported by their friend, neighbor, children.

1. Communism as an idea is bullshit. You can't arrange a classless, moneyless, stateless society. In order to prevent people from owning property you have to forcibly confiscate any resource they come by using force. Thus you have a 2 party system. One party to rule, the other to be ruled. And the commissars and NKVD/KGB weren't friendly people.
2. Democratic socialism is also shit. These 'not communist' countries implemented planks of communism: redistribution of wealth, collectivized farming, nationalization of banks and industries, centralized economic planning. If these weren't 'communist' state, they sure as hell were trying.

Communism doesn't work because it assumes that only the people on the top are selfish and concentrates on people taking too much with no regard to people putting in too little.

The "To each according to his need" is relatively simple.

The "from each according to his ability" is much much more difficult. It's impossible to tell if a person is unable or just lazy. And it does not take very long until the entire workforce produces at the rate of the slowest worker, because why not? The reward is the same.

its really just slavery to the state or the collective.
And slaves work only as much as necessary to avoid a beating.

I would like to add on to this. Many people who advocate for communism.try to use warly human tribalism as an example of how it could work. What those people do not understand is that most tribes are/were not eglatarian whatsoever, taking out an entire whole aspect of communism. Trying to apply that concept to a society of this stature is absurd anyways, tribes have no more than like 200 people max for those types of systems.

Is this "babby's first foray into politics due to presidential hysteria" or is it terminal

and everyone knew each other

Either you break up with him or he tells you we can't be comrades anymore.

Thank you, I appreciate the well thought out responses, helped me understand his point of view but it also strengthened my opinion further. I will take this all into consideration when we have our next god damn argument about communism.

Communism is responsible for more deaths than all homicides and genocides combined in the last 100 years (90+ million) Ask your boyfriend how many more million people he is willing to sacrifice on the alter of communism before he learns it won't work. Don't stop pushing until he gives you a number. Call him a disgusting monster and walk out the door.

Only then will he consider he may have been lied to. If he does not renounce communism after that point dump him, as he is heartless.

And I have a copy of this (pic related)

He should. Allowing gooks to get citizen ship was a mistake. Koreans view you as a filthy gyopo. Americans view you as a little chink whore for betas who can't get white women, which is why you're dating a fucking communist.

>Smart people
>Literally believe eating dog soup will cure Thier sickness.

Choose only one. Koreans are cancer


You can't be an American anymore than. I can be Korean.

Tell him about the similarities of communism with cultural conservative ideologies on the ecomnomic level.

The only reasonable argument for communism i can give is that it hypes up people after death and devastation to rebuild and restore both their spirits and their infrastructure but after that's even partially done, everything goes to shit, I guarantee it.

user which korean girl hurt you so much? Tell me, I'll make her apologize to you myself. I'm proud to be a Korean and an American, and don't you worry I have no problem assimilating to both cultures.

Yea, and there would be an ethnic cleansing. To think that humans can evolve or transcend their own greed, tribalism, and wanton need to fight each other is naive as fuck. The society he described will only exist if we act as a stepping stone to some artificial intelligence or something.

Tribalism is so archaic at this point I would consider it practically irrelevant when talking about communism. There may be some similarities but the two are simply too distinct to compare. Tribes may enslave and attack other tribes and act in collectivized manners but that is to sustain the group and sometimes appease their gods.

Communism makes the party their god (while removing all opposition ie. religion and competing ideologies), aims to spread communism (globally) and topple the capitalist society which it was supposed to evolve out of. Remember, marx expected the middle class to rise with the proletariat to overthrow western capitalism but what happened instead was the middle class economically rose with the upper class, vanquishing the need for them to want a change in their society of this magnitude. They middle class were enjoying too much: job security, luxury items, cars, televsisions, houses. The only countries that became communist were underdeveloped rural russia and china. Even then the red bolsheviks had to win the fight against the white nationalists in russia.

Communism is a product of marxism. Marxism being a critique of capitalism and that the solution is communism. So I'd say the entire appeal of communism is based on one's misunderstanding of how economics works and what capitalism even is.

I can definitely understand that to a certain extent, I mean after the devastation of the Korean War that's basically what happened in N. Korea. Perhaps if every person was truly honest and hardworking as their neighbor, there would be more support for communism but I think we all know that while there are good people, there are greedy, dishonest, and corrupt people who would ruin it for everyone.

this roastie is so fucking mad top lel

Don't worry guys! This time its for real!

Ahh, that makes sense. The whole time we were arguing I tried to think of how racially, religiously, and ideologically diverse America is and to think that imposing communism on such a mixed country seemed like the precursor to all out revolution or mass death. But as morbid as it sounds, you are right in that I guess the only way people would conform would be if there was an ethnic cleansing. Even though like I stated before, N. Korea is pretty ethnically homogeneous and look how well communism worked out for "everyone" there. I guess they got the loyalty and brainwashing part right though.

and yet communists in my anthropology classes always mention it. They also believe in universal human rights as something objective which makes me cringe. I am not sure how you can be an atheist and believe in something like a religious person could.

when communism ruled in cambodia and China even the children were trained to betray their parents. If he is serious about communism he will get you in Trouble if it fits him and if he sees no reprecussion about doing it for himself. Break up get away from him. Communists are dangerous

OP, you've got to understand, this communist shit was spoonfed to american children in television and in education since they were itty bitty babies.

Your parents understand the devastation communism will always inevitably bring, so they innoculated you.

If you really love him, you're gonna have to take baby steps with him. If you don't, make this factor heavily if you consider dropping him (don't want your kids to be raised by some commie cuck)

Even if you do love him, he might be too far gone already. Prepare yourself for this.


Also to answer your original question, fuck nah there's no reasonable argument for communism in the US.

This is all hypothetical, of course, and who knows if stuff like that would happen again, but just look at communism's track record and "success" rate. The people that shill for this shit haven't read enough history books and read too much theory/subjective material.

Dump him. But first give his next door neighbor a blowjob. When he complains, explain that you were just following good communist beliefs.

Communism is at its core about destroying ALL allegiances outaide of class, no family whatsoever, no folk culture, no nation, no identity, you are literally just a cog in a machine that might decide to gulag you arbitrarily.

You are not allowed to speak further about Communism until youve read Culture of Critique. Period.

And I'd say you're pretty much right with that

More problems with communism:

How you do keep even the lower level people from enriching themselves outside the official system?

Just the a few hours a week is all it takes to grow a garden or build furniture or make/mend one's own clothing and suddenly someone has more than everyone else. Even the simple act of being less wasteful or taking care of stuff better than average can make possessions pile up. If you are giving cash allowances it's quite easy for a frugal person to build a nest egg, while spend it or lose it will ensure every dollar is spent, but won't stop extra crap from collecting in the closets of the clever.

The redistribution and enforcement alone is a nightmare.

And how does the collective decide who does what? You can't just let people pick or else half your population will want to be on TV and you have no one to clean the bathrooms or unclog the sewers or do any number of really unpleasant jobs.

Well as I've said, the State in communism takes the role of religion/god. Which means no one can have other gods because it would destroy the 'harmony' that would be had if only everyone would think the same.
Communists push an idealized version of human rights that only applies to themselves and can be retracted from anyone who doesn't affiliate with the same ideology. For example: antifia in DC. They claim to walk for peace and tolerance, fighting for women's, black's, muslim's rights but the moment they come into contact with a conservative or god forbid a white nationalist, it immediately becomes violent. This is just basic communist tactics, people think they can hide this blatant double standard under the rug of McCarthyism but it's obvious they're full of shit and are just trying to justify themselves to protect their own asses when they get fucked with.

Race mixing Marxist communist. He sounds like a pussy

Also, to answer your original question, no, there's really no conceivable way for communism to work in the long run, but especially in the US.

It simply goes against human nature, and the powerful will jealously hold on to their power, and it will slide into either North Korea, where you dont have food, or if you're lucky, you end up like Venezuela, where you don't have toilet paper.

If you want a better answer I suggest leaving personal details out next time

Yes
Your boyfriend is naively unaware of human nature and of his own inherent nature

We are all naturally selfish, its selfishness and brutality that has allowed each of our ancestors to produce all the way until us. Ever cell we have is forged from a desire to survive and to survive the best.
Humanity is most productive when competing. Very, very few individuals inherently will truly be motivated by the notion of contributing to the whole.
Besides, if your boyfriend wants cooperation between people tell him nationalism and tribalism did that best - people banding together against other bands. At the heart is competition.

Like the Space Race.

communisn = committie dictatorship and we know how well committies run things....

Have him read this. It's written for people who don't aren't econ majors but isn't pleb trash. The author,
Sowell, was a dirty marxist in his college years but ended up working for the gov't and realizing how retarded socialism is in practice. I still have a lot of leftie friends from uni, and pains me to talk with them about economics because they hold communism as this religious belief, even though empirical evidence suggests that it will never be as productive as a capitalist economy.

Simple, what is his profession or professional goal? Whatever it is, his new career for the glorious motherland of Automotive Fueling Technician, First Class should satisfy all his needs in the Proletarian Revolution. If he complains about working at a gas station, he gets the gulag.

> Commies in the US are almost always upper middle class
> Never realize they are the first against the wall.
>\

...

Communism is inherently authoritarian.
It can't recover from economic collapse.

"People who read Marx support him, people who understand Marx; don't"

Also, your boyfriend is reading the shit-tier Marx book; das kapital or gotha program. You're obviously with an intellectual light-weight who would suck the first dick of a real man shoved into his face.

>Communist manifesto
67 pages
>Wealth of nations
1264 pages

Gee I wonder who put more thought into it.

What did kek mean by this?