It's been said that communist economies are never as prosperous as capitalist economies because if everyone is getting...

It's been said that communist economies are never as prosperous as capitalist economies because if everyone is getting paid the same, then someone could barely do any work and still get paid. It would incentive laziness since you'll get paid either way.

Couldn't setting a minimum work requirement for a pay nullify this lack of productivity? For example, today you are told to produce this amount of steel of this quality before this amount of time. If you fall below this quota, you don't get paid. The steel you produce will be tested for strength and durability, if it fails you don't get paid. If you produce enough high quality steel but you took too long, you don't get paid. The only way to get paid is to at least satisfy the bare minimum requirements set by the state, and then you will get paid your daily requirement of food and water.

Other urls found in this thread:

medtech.fr/
youtube.com/watch?v=Fh7FqDAyg9k
youtube.com/watch?v=xDum3yDG6aY&lc=
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_credit
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

then everyone will just do the bare minimum, why would anyone try to achieve anything in a Communist society?

you stepping outside communism and collectivism there, even communists limited it to shooting those starving trying to steal food. They didn't require them to work to targets

You don't need to achieve anything, you just need to work as much as the government tells you to work, and the goal of this government plan is to make your country prosperous.

They could set the minimum very high and you'd be totally fucked and essentially working as hard as you can for free.

also how do you enforce say 60 Million 17-64 year olds to reach targets in every job.

>as much as the government tells you to work,
But what if you just slack off and don't do much at all?

Their work will be checked at the end of the day, like when they send their crops to the government for pay, their crops will be weighed and checked. If they did a crappy job the government just puts their name down on a list of people not being paid today.

Again, you have a minimum amount of work, so people won't be willing to work any harder than that.

People should get paid based on the amount of work they do. So if someone slacks off and does nothing, and someone else decides to work their ass off, the first person should get nothing and the other person should get more.

This is the problem with communism - it doesn't offer incentives for people to work any harder than the bare minimum. Why work harder, why come up with a better or more productive way of doing something, if you're not going to be rewarded for it?

You will starve to death since the government will set VERY hardworking quotas, and your organs and blood will be harvested for state hospitals.

>list of people not being paid today.
But what if they raise that threshold to only the top 10% getting paid? Is this a good system? What's to prevent that from happening because that squeezing the most out of your workers is human nature?

Haha, pol btfo.

Also with increased technology this is increasingly plausible.

So...slavery?

Hopefully the government wouldn't be idiotic enough to force unsustainable labor on its population. Human beings do have limits.

Computers and robots, why do we need to work at all ? Heck, we even have brain surgeon robots !
medtech.fr/

you just invented soviet plan

except that if you fail steel plan you got gulaged (a little)

checked and you would need something bigger than cold war police, you would need an army just to enforce one rule in a small territory. It's insane

There is a town hall meeting and a big russian department head is talking about how the townsfolk need to produce more food and stop stealing from the fields.
A man at the front stands up and says "we can't do any more, the fields are barren and the fertilizer is failing"
A man at the back stands up and says "You can't say that, he will have you killed!"

The government offical says, " kill the man at the back, and beat the man at the front"

It's stupidity what you are recommending

Actually also, how about every baby born will be assigned a job when they grow up. Their entire childhood is devoted to training them for their future duty, be it scientist or soldier or steelworker or politician. By the time they're 20 they will be professionals.

>Hopefully the government
Good luck with that

WOW, burgers finally understanding what school is made for

This is my wet dream. To have a place in society that actually improves it and gives life structure and meaning beyond individual desires.. Threat of violence is ok. At least then senpai notices me.

Also if a worker works more than the set minimum, they could receive a marginally higher pay. This would put some human incentive to work.

>Russia in charge of missing out on the enlightenment.

you guys are spamming the thread with soviet sociological practice lol

>the soviet plan in the OP
the pedagogical system of soviet schools
the stahanov movement and socialistic competetion

how about workers gets rights to have a child, between them, every time they both reach targets but otherwise it is burnt alive even if it's born 9 months healthy and no complications.The child is burnt and all children have to do it, they have to make the fire and provide the fuel and they have to watch.

>communism
It just doesn't work, unless you have power and don't care about others.

Imagine that every single person in the country, say 120 million, is working 16 hours a day everyday in some job they've been doing since they were 20, and have been educated since toddlers on the skills of it, while receiving just the necessities of 2,000 calories a day and water. The people probably wouldn't be too happy, but holy fuck would so much production happen.

If they were in a war they could make so many tanks in only an hour with all the factories working.

>some bitching about hours of working and bla-bla while soviets were pioneers in reducing the amount of work time and improving worker conditions

Actually it would be smart to replace more industries with machines in this modified communist society. More workers to become scientists, and more inventions and more efficient designs happening. Of course the scientists would be prodigies in whatever field they're in since their education is devoted exclusively to it.

Why do Americans worship shekels so much?

>Reply to Thread No.109474504
Stop it, user. My feels.

>so many tanks

...

needs more tanks

IS-3 is so fucking sexy.

Thicc.

this is red propaganda thread now

When corruption kicks in on every single aspect, there's no fixing.

If you set a minimum work requirement, everyone will just do the bare minimum.

Good luck enforcing it anyways.

You get it yet?

...

Even the propaganda looks sad and uninspired.

A e s t h e t i c

youtube.com/watch?v=Fh7FqDAyg9k

you just dont like the straight and strong DDR

>sad and uninspired.
Stern and matter of fact.

when even the english channel cant stop you

The communist state ideally doesn't have a government, so you either have "NOT REAL COMMUNISM" or a lack of ability to enforce minimum work ours, unless everyone lives in a commune that has supreme executive authority over it's citizens which can only end badly.

youtube.com/watch?v=xDum3yDG6aY&lc=

>She was found dead and raped in the snow, presumably by Red army soldiers that needed something to push them forward before they were inevitably executed by an officer for someone else's mistake.

>what is Social Credit
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_credit
If you must be leftist in any way, here's a functioning ideology for you.

>NOT REAL COMMUNISM
Who cares mate. State Captialism i.e. Stalinism is still pretty fucking beast mode.

>Implying England doesn't have very powerful contacts

Pic related

People meme how good at production they were when the Americans probably could have produced far more machinery much quicker and with might higher quality that the soviet slaves.

The Nazis had state capitalism to, but they didn't have the same man power and completely have up on winning a war of attrition as far as their technological direction went, instead opting for superior tanks to superior numbers.

Hmmm so what you're saying is we should reward people based on how much value they create. Neato idea.

>implying the tanks and VDV vehicles would ever ride anything but fresh nuclear wastes

No, he's saying that you don't get paid for being exceptional, and you don't get payed for being shit, but you get paid for being OKAY.

It's if capitalism had Down's

Ah yes, let our equal brothers work, while we distribute the food and water. It's nice that we're a little more equal isn't it?

>Americans
What was the tax rate at this time, again? You are literally arguing in favour of Sovietism.

>Nazis
Also got BTFO from a country who 10 years earlier was an agrarian backwater.

then why was burger tank quality far worse than soviet tanks?

Are you sayigng they are using fresh nuclear waste to cross the channel?

R U MAD

NUCKLEAR SHARK

BT-5 is such a cutie.

are you aborigenal? because I dont believe anybody else could be that stupid

I like KV

>Also got BTFO from a country who 10 years earlier was an agrarian backwater.
Yeah, the mass production of shit by dint of you having a lot of people helps. Plus the fact that you don't actually care about your soldiers in the slightest to the point where you'll just fuckin execute them because on of their squad mates fucked up. You also forget that Germany was pretty fucked at the time as well, and had significantly less people. They did better, they killed better, they fought better, but the winter and more useless slavic shits than they had bullets got the better of them.

>What was the tax rate at this time, again? You are literally arguing in favour of Sovietism.
No,I'm arguing for whatever America was doing. Look at it's fucking navy, Jesus. It upheld that massive navy as well as the tanks used in Europe and africa, along with soldiers that ACTUALLY HAD GUNS LMAO.

It's anti-humanitist. And they do this to an extent in capitalistic countries called quotas at work. You areally supposedo to achieve a set goal and if you do not you are punished by either getting fired or losing incentives set to intavise you to achieve those goals.

Think about you statement. I say sharks are gonna get your amphibious tanks, and you say your tanks aren't going to ride anything but nuclear waste. I think your the one who can't manage to comprehend the continuity of 2 posts here.

Then the people would revolt you idiot.

>communism
>paid
People really have no idea what communism is and just think whatever western propaganda claimed ussr did is communism

You seem to be making a lot of exuses but it is clear who dominated WW2. It doesn't really matter who you do it. The proof is in the pudding. You sound pretty butthurt.

Also USA never faced an invasion force or industry significantly effected for the whole war.

>sharks eat tanks
>muh winter
>muh 1 rifle on 3 privtes
>muh ZAGRADOTRYAD

for a guy who never was in the army I tell you that every army on the earth has an enforcing order for the officer to cut the panic by extreme ways

...

But what the USSR did was't communism. It was all a huge lie to suppress the populace and keep power.

>paid

If you are machining tools, you can't be fed off of your own labor, so you are going to need to be allotted some breed from your commune. So OP was right. You might get paid food if you don't make it, and even if you make it, your commune might not like you having too much because everyone else is entitled to your labor for some reason.

>caring about prosperity

And soon you'll have people proclaiming all pleasures, all goods, all "genders" are equal and deserve equal praise.

The reason Communist societies and capitalist societies are all gay is because the people who need to be in charge are hardly ever in charge. Also there's certain people who just want to be left alone, let these people exist, they don't give a fuck for 99% of what happens unless it directly fucks them over.

keeping the power..............

for who?

I remember some econ class I had that talked about how after the Soviet Union collapsed the World bank tried to give aid to the former soviet nations by investing directly in industry. The funny thing was this is exactly what the Soviets had been doing for literally decades but at a certain point the investments just didn't get a return.

basically the world bank has the same economic policy of the soviets, and probably have no idea what they are doing.

I think the same thing happened in a few african countries.

>"malnourished"

Ya everything always seems to work out exactly as you think when you are in complete control of everything because the situation is hypothetical.

What happens when things dont work out?
What happens when the top people are corrupt?
What happens if you miscalculate food production and there is mass starvation?
What happens when other countries around the world fuck with your shit because youre enslaving your populace?

If you dont already know your own ideas failure points you prob dont even really understand your own ideas very well. So you should be able to answer your own question here.

Ahhh, a wrecker! In accordance with article 58 it's a tener for you, comrade. Off to the gulag, and if you survive you will be arrested again because obviously you are a traitor to the motherland. You will die in the gulags!

>For example, today you are told to produce this amount of steel of this quality before this amount of time. If you fall below this quota, you don't get paid. The steel you produce will be tested for strength and durability, if it fails you don't get paid. If you produce enough high quality steel but you took too long, you don't get paid. The only way to get paid is to at least satisfy the bare minimum requirements set by the state, and then you will get paid your daily requirement of food and water.

Goddamn you commies are morons. What the fuck do you think every communist society did? You think you're the first to think of this? Fucking snowflake lefties genuinely think they're original and insightful.

The eternal battle of communism was always how to incentivise high standards and they all came out with the same oppressive shit you did.

Read a history book on any pinko society you worthless cunt.

that's real socialism

well, if you work at a steel plant (especially in the war-postwar times) and you fail the plan, you are failing the country and deserve punishment

All of your complaints are caused by miscalculations not systemic weaknesses.

Soviet system was like a spreadsheet. It's possible to fuck up when you misjudge your inputs.

I work with fucking Americans, they are terrible workers, like even my brother agrees. He works at Wafer-tech and it's all Russians, when he did his internship he and a romanian dude did 95% of the work together while 2 amerisharts did nothing. Guess who got hired? The Eastern Europeans.

>What happens when things dont work out?
>What happens when the top people are corrupt?
>What happens if you miscalculate food production and there is mass starvation?
>What happens when other countries around the world fuck with your shit because youre enslaving your populace?


you just described Russian Empire and the liberal bunch of fags after it

Sure the Russians did the most. But there is hardly any accolades waiting for someone doing it that way. If you're not some autist who thinks WW2 was a sports match, then you'd probably be more keep to look at the nuance as opposed to the dichotomy of winners and loosers. Sometimes the loosers do a much better job than the winners man for man, and battle for battle, as hard as that miught be for your infantile little head to grasp.
>You sound pretty butthurt
I really, really don't. In fact, you can't hear me :DDDDD

>Also USA never faced an invasion force or industry significantly effected for the whole war.

If they did, a competent military with a fast response would have minimized the damage. Ample air force coupled with well equipped, well trained troops and easy to produce tanks would have repelled a German force I would think.

The soviets were slow to mobilize and their footman were god awful. They had fucking Mosin Nagants which have been memed into okay rifles while being the cheap shit they were mean't to be.

>sharks eat tanks
>Mind mindbogglingly autistic Russian takes this seriously

>muh winter
Yup. They weren't trained or dressed for it, and the supplies found it hard to push through it. It's one of the reasons the Germans lost. Their sparse production could hardly be effective is the shitty terrains and long supply lines could keep their tanks in action.

>muh 1 rifle on 3 privtes
It was sometimes worse.

>for a guy who never was in the army I tell you that every army on the earth has an enforcing order for the officer to cut the panic by extreme ways

>Cut panic
>Execute random random people

Yeah, rule with only fear. The soldiers fear you, the soldiers fear death, the soldiers fear the enemy. Wouldn't want a confident and effective force focused on the fight or anything.

No modern army would do something like this because it's a fucking dumb idea. You send hardened troops in that aren't shit.

This is exactly what they tried to do ("quotas"). People who attempt to defend Marxism are as a matter of definition people who do not understand Marxism.

The communist party.

>INB4 my democracy

The vote for unions was superficial and the communist party was never bound by a vote. They had supreme executive authority.

>My shitty anecdote reveals that several Americans are lazy!
>All Americans BTFO

>It's been said that communist economies are never as prosperous as capitalist economies because if everyone is getting paid the same, then someone could barely do any work and still get paid. It would incentive laziness since you'll get paid either way.
You're doing this right now with the amount of wealth usury, and banking generates. You also have welfare queens getting fat off the labor of society. You're being eaten from both sides significantly, but people having enough money to be able to cover their living expenses is radical to you?

>but people having enough money to be able to cover their living expenses is radical to you?
Making sure that's all you can ever get despite how superior you are to the chaff is.

Alright well whatever, you have half the same genes most Amerisharts have, I guess you don't notice how shitty you work then as well/ I wouldn't expect anymore from a fucking bong when they claim they invented tea and ships while other races drank tea 10,000 years ago and had boats thousands of years way before.

>man for man, and battle for battle
Here's your problem. You're focusing individual merit as if it changed the outcome. It doesn't matter how an army fights individually if you lose the war.

I agree with you that Russians died a look, especially in the early years. But by 1944 the Soviet army was a well-oiled bulldozer across Europe and actually didn't suffer many casualties at this time.

Also, if the Soviets wanted to they could have continued to take France and Britain. They were close to making their own nukes also.

So I don't really understand your argument. USSR was a pretty successful war machine.

>All of your complaints are caused by miscalculations not systemic weaknesses.
I would say not making a plan for the whole world gang bang buttfucking you qualifies as systemic.

>you just described Russian Empire and the liberal bunch of fags after it
And?

>You don't agree with my shitty anecdote?
>Well guess what?
>IT APPLIES TO YOU I KNOW MORE ABOUT UR COUNTRY THAN YOU REKT CHECKMATE ATHEIST

>the winter bullshit

check the german advancing schedule, they continued moving WITH THE START OF FUCKING WINTER YOU RETARD

winter = frozen roads = vehicles can move on

>the rifle bullshit

Coглacнo дoнeceнию штaбa 33 Apмии штaбy Peзepвнoгo (фpoнтa o бoeвoм и чиcлeннoм cocтaвe чacтeй apмии - шecти дивизий нapoднoгo oпoлчeния, нaпpaвлeннoм нe paнee 20 ceнтябpя 1941 г. (дaтиpoвaниe пo тeкcтy). Bинтoвoк имeлocь 34 721 вмecтo пoлoжeнных 28 952, cтaнкoвых пyлeмeтoв 714 вмecтo пoлoжeнных 612.

The red army had a significant surplus of weaponry, not the lack of it

>execution bullshit

give me at least ONE fact of a random execution (protip: you cant)

and I can give you tens of examples of zagradotryad to cover problematic parts of front and other heroic facts

FUCK OFF COMMY SCUM

so the communist party keeping the power is bad, but the capital employees doing the same is good?

>It would incentive laziness since you'll get paid either way.
kek
the eternal Slav is a lazy cunt. They'll do the least amount of work possible to get by. I've no idea if that's the result of communism or their never ending occupations or what, but they'd never work again if they could help it.

>Be Bong
>Can't even copy shit that Germans, Russians, and other Euros constantly innovate.

This applies more to America though since everyone here is eating 10,000 grams of High Estrogen Sodium Fructose and their brains can't function and take 20 drugs a day from prescribed Jewish pharmacies.

Or if you a traitorous collective farmer who does not meet the grain quota. Never mind you have not enough to eat, nor functioning equipment, rainfall or seed. Obviously you are a wrecker, comrade, and according to article 58 you are hereby sentence to a ten year sentence in the gulags! Oh, deny your crimes do you? In time you will beg to admit your crime, oh yes you will, or it will be your entire family in the gulags too!

The security organs of the state are infallible, comrade. You are guilty, and soon we will convince you of such.

Wrong, a person who produced more than another would keep the surplus of their labor, while whatever was required to necessitate the average person would be taxed.

>It's been said that communist economies are never as prosperous as capitalist economies because if everyone is getting paid the same, then someone could barely do any work and still get paid. It would incentive laziness since you'll get paid either way.

No. I say that communist economies are never prosperous because despite the communist meme existing for centuries no communist economy has ever been prosperous. At the very most they were able to have some level of mediocre self-sufficiency but even then it was only for a fleeting time.

It has never worked. It isn't working now. It will not work in the future. Communism is a forced meme.

>You're focusing individual merit as if it changed the outcome.
As someone who cares about history, I take into account the merit of the armies. Not the individual. The Germans fought better. I don't care if it changed the outcome. I feel that's a valuable assessment. No one adopted Soviet tactics, whereas lightning warfare has been tought at military colleges, and no one has based their tank design no the T-34 that wasn't also a communist country.

The outcome of the war doesn't interest me as much as what actually happened. When you're interested in war, the last thing you care about it the end result. It's the last thing actually. It's the battles, the politics, the strategy, the tactics, and yes,in part, the valor of individuals.

>But by 1944 the Soviet army was a well-oiled bulldozer across Europe and actually didn't suffer many casualties at this time.

This isn't true. As teh allies found out int he months after Normandy, there is nothing harder to punch through than the German defenses. The Russians took relatively less causalities, sure, now that they outnumbered the Germans ten to one, but there was still a huge disparity in favor of the Germans if I remember correctly. Granted, exact numbers are hard to come by because to the Russians counting their dead was about as much a priority as counting dead skin cells.

>Also, if the Soviets wanted to they could have continued to take France and Britain.
>The soviets could have beaten America

You're delusional. The Americans produced more shit and better. Think about how useless Russian troops were against Germans fresh in the Russian winter seeing the first conflict, using the Mouser K98.

Now imagine how great Russian troops would fair against an army that has been fighting in one of the most understated slug fests in history, is actually trained well, and is equipped with the M1 Garand.

>inb4 tanks

There would have been no better army at busting tanks at the time. None.