Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.
What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.
>Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."
>To acheive such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.
Isn't it 6 or 5 in the morning in European countries?What the fuck is wrong with you?Do you ever sleep?
Grayson Wright
The working class hates communism user. The only people who like it are the white jobless kids with useless degrees. It is not communism that is going to make anime real, mate.
Matthew Cox
he's a communist, sleep is for aristocrats
Dominic Cook
I can't stop thinking of Comrade Stalin and his sexy moustache.
Luis Cook
Anime real in what sense?
Jose Davis
Cant believe people are still pushing this pipe dream. Communism should be received as negatively as Hitler's reign.
Dylan Gutierrez
Real in the sense that capitalism has allowed for anime, genetic engineering, trade, virtual reality, and in the future even adorable wolf-girls to come to society. All things that would never happen under communism.
Tyler Hill
>>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.
Who determines the social need?
Aiden Powell
Communism is woke af. xd
Easton Jackson
Bitches be mirin.
Isaiah Cooper
The problem with communism is that it only works if you believe in the objective value of goods, which isn't a belief most people hold. It also only holds true if you believe labor to be some sacred thing, that must be repaid in full.
Most people don't hold those beliefs though. We believe that labor is a commodity to be sold just like any other, and that the subjective value of goods means that the only way of properly distributing their usage is through the market.
You also have a problem connecting with the working class on the fundamental level, because you reject religion and nationalism, two things which form the core of the working class. They're proud of their country, proud to call themselves Americans, and they are faithful to God. You're desire to tear down their religion and their country does not play well with them.
Henry Scott
What shoes did your parents get for you this school year, DCs or Osiris high tops?
Jose Wood
Those things would still exist in communism.
Easton Williams
Nazis are lying kikes, more news at 11
Brayden Stewart
lel
Jayden Peterson
''George Soros is a Jew and as we all know, Jews are secretly ebil islamig gommunists!''
David Parker
No, as we have clearly seen in the past, they would certainly not exist. I mean, good gracious, imagine what would happen if the Soviet Union had gotten to Japan before we did! It would be the worst timeline, without a doubt.
When has communism existed? communism is the future.
Chase Wood
>communism is the future Why is it the future? What makes these next 100 years better for you than the last 100 years?
Blake Price
Insurrection never sleeps.
It's not so much that labour is sacred, that we're all members of the same class, and the deck is very blatantly stacked against us. It, to me, has to do with a certain selfishness. There's also Christian, Islamic, and maybe other religious sorts of Communism. Marxist-Leninists as well don't seem to turn away from nationalism. Za Rodinu Za Stalina and all that. Personally I believe any revolutionary nation must be protected, despite being an anarchist. It's better than a capitalist state. Going down the Leninist route allows you to keep your nationalism to an extent. Russia became more under the USSR than they were before.
Lincoln Gray
just soros,like almost all kikes stand for nothing but money
this is what people get wrong about him
he couldn't give two fucks about ANY cause
if nationalism were suddenly profitable for him,he'd do everything in his power to promote it
Caleb Parker
/thread Fuck /leftypol/ >inb4 Le "based" lefties xD
Alexander Jones
>he doesn't know about step 2
Your grandma is currently getting raped by a Somali.
Evan Perry
Stalinists and Nazis have a lot in common.
Samuel Reed
Please don't post my waifu in your terrible communist threads.
Jordan Ramirez
Communism. A stateless, classless, money-less society with full automation where everybody enjoys more freedom than anytime before, paradise on Earth and beyond.
Jace Wood
The central planning cybernetic system.
Wyatt Anderson
ayee
Jack Williams
The planned economy cybernetic system.
Nathan Wright
I'll collectivize your waifu's means of reproduction.
Adrian Williams
>le (((meme)))
Zachary Hughes
That didn't really answer the question. Why is communism any more viable in the future than it was in the past? And why would it be any better than a capitalist future?
Lincoln Baker
I laugh at these people defending capitalism.
/r/the_donald really has cucked this board.
1488. Heil Hitler.
Chase Foster
I also laugh at the people defending Communism.
Jason Morales
Communism: >has never existed, despite multiple attempts >every attempt leads to mass starvation of their own people >is easily subverted through other ideologies >solves no problems that other ideologies don't already solve better >no clear solution to fix constant failures >claims human nature either doesn't exist, or is easy to change >fixes none of the cultural issues that would derive from total automation of industry
Fascism: >no two fascist nations have ever gone to war with each other >fascism has never had a mass starvation problem >fascism has actually existed, and it fixes all the problems communism seeks to solve >early fascist failures are easily solved by reducing aggression and warmongering, as shown by other successful fascist nations >utilizes human nature by designing a system meant to take advantage of it >fixes all of the cultural issues that would derive from total automation of industry
Angel Adams
I always knew Pinko Spico was a literal faggot.
Blake Howard
Good luck otherwise m8.
Bentley Price
Soviets had style I don't care what wehrboos cry about
Grayson Young
SIEG HEIL!!!!
Lucas Johnson
Fascism started with working class interests in mind as well you know. You just kept the other classes around for some silly reason.
Xavier Wilson
Here's the thing I don't understand about this logic. Communists believe that technological, social, and material developments from capitalism will allow them to finally have a communist society, yet all these developments have been great for capitalism, so why does communism suddenly become "inevitable"?
Christian Hill
Fuck all of you
Nolan Lopez
Automation will have to be held back for a very long time because once it comes along, so does Communism. Robot workers means less jobs means less consumers means less money flowing through the system. Full automation would grind capitalist society to a halt, nobody would be able to afford the robot-made goods as nobody would have a job. You could introduce universal basic income, but at that point the only thing stopping it from being Communism is people not spending their infinite money on things and just taking them for free.
Eli Gray
Take control!
Take control of your ideology!
Right now the left is staging a massive boycott of Uber under the twitter hashtag #deleteuber because they did not strike with the NYC cab drivers during the "Refugee Crises" at the NYC airport.
The irony of the left not supporting workers rights yet supporting Sharia Islam is astounding.
WTF is going on with your people?
COME HOME LEFT MAN
Isaiah Wright
Want to do something, go to Rojava.
Kayden Perez
>1850's economic model that has failed in every implementation >more human rights abuses than any other form of governance
Any communist is either an idiot that doesn't understand communsim or a monster.
Oliver Flores
That has never been how things have worked out. If suddenly we only need 1/10 of the workers to do the same amount of work, we don't just let the other 90% starve, but rather we build 10X as many factories for those workers to use. Production increases, prices lower, and quality of life improves for everyone. With the increase of automation even the relatively uneducated worker can start his own business, increasing competition and thus efficiency, driving societal growth even further. It's a bright future indeed, and one where capitalism reigns supreme.
David Wilson
There are better things going on in this thread than empty shitposting. Remember how every Fascist state has also failed? History is not over. To say this says neither of us have a chance, when we both do.
Why would that be how things have worked out? At what point in history could we have been expected to have almost full automation or full automation in production? This is in the future, it's demonstrably true that industry has been getting more automated throughout history and will certainly continue to do so, it's reasonable to assume that at a point it would become fully automated. The factories themselves being fully automated I mean, no matter how many you build. Just making unnecessary jobs wouldn't be enough to stave off the mass unemployment after that happens. You'd have to specifically hold back technological advancement to save capitalism when this time comes near.
Michael Wright
>more human rights abuses than any other form of governance That's a weird way to spell authoritarianism.
Julian Phillips
>not real communism
Every fucking time. You'd think you fucking retards would get an actual argument. You don't get to change what words mean to fit your narrative.
You are championing the most monstrous form of governance to ever exist. You cannot refute this. You are worse than Nazis.
Landon Gomez
>le not real x meme Nice strawman.
Wyatt Myers
I was defending fascism. You /r/the_donald posters are really cucked. Lel. I said I laugh at the people defending capitalism and communism.
Carter Bennett
I never once said anything like that. My god you're not even reading anything I say! That means I win by the way. As you've already given up on a intellectual level, and are replying to things you just assume I'm saying instead of y'know, actually reading.
My argument was that even though Communism has failed, so has Fascism. Both every time they were tried, yet both still have a chance.
Anthony Hill
SAME FUCKING SPANISHFAG EVERY TIME
This faggot just proves that cuckumists are a bunch of beta numales who can't get a job.
Adam Cooper
>point out that you're using a fallacious argument >you interpret that as a fallacious argument >still won't address hundreds of millions tortured and murdered and starved
It's almost as if you refuse to address the hundreds of millions of human rights abuses because if you considered it you might actually change your mind.
Cameron Nelson
By the way, the inventors of Communism get to decide its meaning, not its opponents. Therefor Communism is a stateless, moneyless, classless society, and state socialism is the transition period for a Marxist attempt. Anarchists don't go through the state part.
Carter Gonzalez
Human jobs will still be required, albeit in a lower capacity. Whether we're needed to maintain the robots, check for glitches, be general overseers, provide outside perspectives, have our bodies on hand for whatever might be needed, being owners of the robots, or just take up jobs that people prefer human interaction for, there will still be that demand for human work. Add in human labor becoming cheaper, transhumanism increasing our usefulness, and increased production and space colonization increasing the amount of jobs, and you have humanity surviving just fine with capitalism.
Brayden Long
>I was defending fascism So was I.
Nathaniel Hernandez
>cannot refute human rights abuses and failure of every communist state >accuses me of not engaging intellectually
You can't magically make your arguments make sense in reality. You have offered zero tangible rebuttal to a monstrous form of governance.
Accusation is not proof.
Austin Cooper
...
Lucas Clark
>ignore that you have to kill millions of people to enforce communist "reality"
I'm still waiting for an actual rebuttal.
Jason Barnes
Automation.
When communism was in full force, there was no automation, which forced people to take up menial labour jobs, which nobody wanted to take. If communism was implemented today, people could do whatever they want do, like it's original intention. People say that things would never of been made without capitalism, since communism stops innovation, but this is simply not true - let's take video games for example - some of the best games are indie games that the low-budget developers made without expecting to make a profit, and did it simply because they liked making video games. Now you are probably asking me "B-b-but user, what about all those terrible indie games?" and that is a fair point, but the extremely generic video games are made only to make a profit, and other genuinely terrible games can just be ignored by most people, and nobody would play them, but if the developer was actually passionate about their work and enjoyed making video games, then nothing is wrong.
Lincoln Bailey
Nice to know leftypol is thinking about us all the time. They got 4 threads up right now linking to Sup Forums threads because they only get about a dozen posts an hour. Yes yes senpai notices you.
Jacob Mitchell
>fallacious argument How did I make a fallacious argument? My point was that not all communism is authoritarian. Authoritarianism of all forms is what causes mass killings. >hundreds of millions tortured and starved First of all, hundreds of millions is an overestimate. Second of all, I'm not refusing to address the human rights abuses. I'm just saying that supporting collective ownership and similar economic concepts isn't equivalent to being literally Stalin.
Austin Perry
People can do whatever they want in todays capitalist economies too. The only difference between the two is that in a capitalist economy other people have to think that what you are doing is valuable, whereas in a communist society you can produce crap and still get a share of the wealth.
Joseph Russell
>ignore that you have to kill millions of people to enforce communist "reality" Oh yeah because Rojava is full of mass graves...
Aaron Lewis
I just googled this, none of it is fake you retard?
Asher Morris
>be a Nazi and get associated with Hitler >be a commie but magically aren't associated with Stalin
It doesn't work that way fuckhead. The "not real communism" argument is the most old, tired, and debunked bullshit ever.
And hundreds of millions is completely correct. You're trying to bend reality to meet your bias again.
You have no fucking argument besides the power fantasy in your own mind that you want to spew at people.
Charles Walker
Commies, what is with all those populist lefts, which are full off liberalism cancer, do you like them?
Example: syriza, who else?
Jonathan Brooks
stupid commies
Dominic Baker
I just lost a large post. Shame. Either way, eventually human input with be either so minimal only a small minority will do it or not even necessary at all in the field of production. What you're saying would happen (assuming capitalist negligence doesn't make this planet uninhabitable before then) but when what you're saying happens, it will become apparent that the capitalist system is merely a formality. There would be such abundance that everyone would have the ability to use more than they could possibly care to use. If you kept wages low and made sure people did still have to be somewhat smart with their personal consumption to be able to afford enough to eat, then they would see the lack of any sort of scarcity, and their own denial to these things, and probably revolt against the completely arbitrary restriction. Whether it be by revolution, obsolescence, or extinction, Capitalism will eventually come to an end.
Here you go Here you go: You don't have to kill millions. Read the posts I'm making where I'm explaining that capitalism will simply become obsolete with a fully automated robot society. Besides, I'm an Anarchist and you expect me to defend the things I also criticize Leninists for? Why would I ever defend that. Not all Communists are Leninists.
Actually in a fully Communist society all people will have their needs met, but, you can't just produce crap and expect people to care. It's not "all labour time" like people on here like to feed you lies about, it's "all -socially necessary- labour time", something with an actual, demonstrable benefit. If we are to give those who work a little extra luxury over those who don't, then we wouldn't give it to those who make mud pies. We'd give it to those who make bridges.
They're cancer. Only leftists I support are the EZLN, the PKK/YPG, and any insurrectionary anarchist organizations.
Jack Cooper
>If I deny that hundreds of millions were starved and slaughtered I can tell you about my leftism
You are denying with zero proof. Try again.
Hudson Ramirez
Are you going to say an organization that has its ideological base in Anarchist philosophy should somehow be associated with Marxist-Leninist philosophy? You're unnecessarily Equating two different things so you can call everything on the left Stalin when that's quite obviously not the case to anybody who's been alive more than 20 years.
>let's give genocide and oppression a different label and pretend it's something else
You are dishonest.
Asher Torres
This Spanish guy needs to be banned. I swear, this is the same person, posting the same thing.
Some advice for you idiot Communists. Your old ideas haven't worked before. At least come up with new ideas. You have the wrong mindset, and are destined to fail either way, but at least it'll be interesting to watch.
Hudson Flores
Crying "NO NO NO" isn't an argument.
Thomas Butler
>lack of any sort of scarcity You know we can't have a post scarcity society until we have Star Trek style replicators right?
Joshua Green
Ever notice that creative successful people are capitalists? And that lazy people who aren't good at anything but playing reaper in overwatch are communists?
Samuel Cook
Are you sincerely saying Anarchism is Stalinism, and that Democratic Confederalism (this is what's happening in Rojava) is also Stalinism? It speaks for itself how disingenuous you're being.
Maybe that's true, but when we do though.
Nathan Allen
back in the summer of 72' i learned communists make excellent compost.
I was driving home after a long day at the office and at a busy intersection, a bunch of coons, chinks and pasty fat kids were blocking the road with communist propaganda signs and an arm-link fence. this was the 4th time in 3 months. it was time to do something about it.
I got out, walked to the back of my car, and tore my license plate straight off. I then got back in, put on my driving shades, and hit the gas. the shrieks of terror and the thumping of their now-dead bodies colliding with my vehicle were the stuff of nightmares. apparently the sight of so many of their members being killed in the line of duty scared off the rest of those filthy stalinists, because before i knew it, anyone whose head was not splattered against the bumper of my car was now running for the hills, screaming all the way.
I had no idea if anyone had called the cops or not in the ensuing panic yet, so i rightfully decided to book it. as i was running to the back of my car to try and reaffix the license plate in case any potential cops on the way home took notice, i thought to myself, "i can't walk away from something this big without some kind of souvenir." At first i thought id take one of their signs, but that would be too big to easily hide. Then i saw it: a severed hand, torn straight off the arm of some red cunt. At this point, i decided id do something interesting with it. You see, i had a small chili plant i kept on my windowsill that i felt hadn't received any type of nutrition for a long time, and seeing how worthless communists inherently are, i decided it was time that one of them was given a purpose in life. I wrapped the hand in some tissues, and when i got home, i lifted the pepper with all the dirt out of the pot and placed the hand at the bottom. to this day, those are the damn best tasting peppers ive ever had.
Eli Wright
>It doesn't work that way fuckhead. The "not real communism" argument is the most old, tired, and debunked bullshit ever. Not an argument. I never said "not real communism." You're just posting tired strawman garbage. >You're trying to bend reality to meet your bias No I'm not. I'm literally pointing out that hundreds of millions of deaths is a demographic impossibility. >You have no fucking argument besides the power fantasy in your own mind that you want to spew at people. Strawman harder. >If I deny that hundreds of millions were starved and slaughtered I can tell you about my leftism I'm not denying or excusing the human rights abuses that occurred under Stalinist, Maoist, and other Marxist-Leninist regimes. Stop shitposting. >let's give genocide and oppression a different label and pretend it's something else >le everything i dont le like is le genocide and oppression and literally Stalin You're just as bad as the asshats who say that flag-waving patriotism makes you literally Hitler.
Nathaniel Hernandez
The only fps I play anymore are CSGO and Red Orchestra 2, sorry.
Ever notice how like one Sup Forumsack in this thread has been giving me a nice conversation and the rest have been eternally bitchy?
>the leftists who believe in the beauty of the Soviet system Strawman right off the bat.
Caleb Campbell
Capitalism is far more efficient. When Communists claim that if everyone had average wealth, everyone could have a house, car, and adequate leisure, they measure it through Capitalist standards. In Communism, average wealth, is equal poverty. The core ideas are wrong.
Josiah Powell
None of you will address the hundreds of millions of dead who were tortured, murdered, starved, and enslaved. In fact you call for more of it.
I urge you to consider the earlier parts in this thread where automation was discussed. We do not claim everyone should have what we now consider average wealth. We believe everyone will have what we now consider infinite wealth, except you can only own things you can personally use.
None of those have absolutely anything to do with Anarchism (the superior form of Communism is Anarchist Communism and Stalin was not an Anarchist) or Democratic Confederalism which again, has absolutely nothing to do with Stalin.
You are falsely equating Anarchism and Stalinism. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Hudson Green
>communism >has never existed Because before automation, it wasn't possible. >every attempt leads to mass starvation There is no denying that fact, but that is simply because the USSR (biggest communism attempt) is a terrible place for farms, and it's hard to trade with other countries when there is no money, which, I will admit, is a problem. >is easily subverted through other ideologies How? >solves no problems that other ideologies don't already solve better Examples? Also, the communist revolution happened due to rampant inflation, and almost all of the country was better off because of it. >no clear solution to fix constant failures What failures? It's hard to retort when you are so vague. >claims human nature either doesn't exist, or is easy to change Although I do believe that there is no 'human nature', I do agree that it isn't easy to change. >fixes none of the cultural issues that would derive from total automation of industry I don't really see what issues would appear, please elaborate.
>fascism >no two fascist nations have ever gone to war with each other Although this is true that is simply because the fascist countries had to band together due to convenience, and Hitler actually thought that the Italians were quite lazy, and would have been one of the first to be invaded after all countries with a heavy population of 'undesirables'. Also, fascists need an enemy to fight against, if all countries were fascist, they would be fighting with each other until one of them owned the world. >fascism has never had a mass starvation problem That is true, but all of those countries had a good farming sector, and could actually buy food from other countries. >fascism ha actually existed, and it fixes all the problems communism seeks to solve Fascism wasn't great on the whole 'equality' thing though was it?
I'll add more in other post since I hit the character limit.
Chase Adams
>another denial of reality post
Your pet form of communism is still the same oppression of 150 years before. You are simply delusional and think yourself to be separated from it because your own ego and sense of intellectual superiority won't allow any criticism of your cherished pet ideology.
>we totally won't have to slaughter millions to abolish private property >anarcho-communism is totally not a contraction
In this book here you ignorant swine you will find knowledge about Anarchist-Communism. The better version of Communism.
Remember, even the authoritarian Stalinists say Communism is a classless, moneyless, stateless society, they only claimed to be socialist, not in a society of functioning of Communism (read a history book you'll see) and the people who invent an ideology generally get to decide what it is, not their opponents. So. Enjoy being underage I suppose.
Nicholas Cook
>Your pet form of communism is still the same oppression of 150 years before. You are simply delusional and think yourself to be separated from it because your own ego and sense of intellectual superiority won't allow any criticism of your cherished pet ideology. Not an argument. >anarcho-communism is totally not a contraction When I saw you misspelled "contradiction" as "contraction," I finally realized I'm talking to an idiot.
I just realized. A stateless society is incompatible with being a society that is stateless, they contradict. Oh no.
Easton Bennett
adding on to >early fascist failures are easily solved by reducing aggression and warmongering, as shown by other successful fascist nations The fact that there is any aggression or warmongering in the first place is a bit disturbing, isn't it? >utilizes human nature by designing a system meant to take advantage of it As I said earlier, I do think that we have an overall 'human nature', but that humans adapt to our conditions. >fixes all of the cultural issues that would derive from total automation of industry What cultural issues?
