Sup Forums retards gets BTFO. How will you ever recover?

Sup Forums retards gets BTFO. How will you ever recover?

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en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communalism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_Great_Britain
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Democratic socialism doesn't and can't exist. Yes, Orwell was in idealist who believed in contradictions, surprise surprise

Rojava is democratic socialist and is working fine. Do some research faggot ;)

And they're not going to exist soon

Not because of internal politics. Becaue of war.

Another failing of pragmatic socialism

Orwell was an idiot who thought that totalitarianism is bad because muh feelings.

He also hated communism, but like all anti-communists, didn't know what it even is.

War is politics by other means, faggot.

And you think Totalitarianism is good because
>muh immigrants make me feel bad and muh muh women won't have sex with me
Contradictions much?

Also
>thinks communism has ever happened
>thinks USSR wasen't a totalitarian state capitalist government
Maximum kek

>Not because of internal politics. Becaue of war.
try separe the two and prove it

>implying having a smaller military force and population to support it is a large factor in Democratic Socialism

democracy is a form of socialism

>democracy is a form of socialism
can it get more "redpilled" than this? You guys talk about us white people having the highest IQ, I'm guessing half of Sup Forums are niggers then

Also as I'm reading more about them, they don't seem socialist to me. They have gender and religious equality laws but they also still retain private property rights, something which according to socialist doctrine shouldn't exist

>using Molyneux to argue for socialism

Democracy is rule of the majority, not socialism, which is rule of the people. There's always an oppressed minority in democracy

>semi-autonomous region in syria that has existed for 4-5 years, wont exist soon because military is not a large factor in its ideology


seems like a deficiency to me if this is the best example you could think of.

also probably shouldnt get mad at people for not immediatly thinking of a non-country that hasnt existed longer than any of the people you are talking to. It makes your argument seem really weak, and makes you sound like a huge faggot.

>implying you know anything about socialism
>implying no gendered society is a part of it
>implying SJW idpol isn't liberal (which is economicly capitalist) and is socialist

Maybe you should do research on socialism and not Rojava first, hm?

>uses an invalid argument
>responds with that his argument is wrong
> weee weeee ur a stupid faggot >:(

You are right when you say communism hasnt ever happened. However none of those attempting communism have ever been capitalist and on contrary they were totalitarian socialist government. Adding state would make it pleonastic as that is what socialism implies.

Capitalism describes how markets work regardless of case from formation to any other state. Communism would be a contradiction in the sense that it is capitalism always with an unnatural and perverse incentive structure.

Communism is also not a possible form of market or government. It is based on self refuting propositions, false market theory, and paradoxical state of post scarcity.

>>>no military is why it wont exist soon, its just not a big part of the ideology
>>seems like an important part of the ideology is missing if its going to disappear soon
>not an argument

you still sound like a huge faggot

No, State Capitalism is (when used in together with "communist nations") when the state has monopoly over the means of production. It's merely a term, doesn't refer to real capitalism. Socialism is when the workers have control over the means of production. Communism is an anarchist society where the means of production are equally distributed

(Also before anyone asks, no, I am not a communist or a socialist)

I'd guess at least 10% or 15% of the population is a part of their army. It isn't about not having an army. It's about manpower, which they lack.

No thats would be arbitrary categorization.
If a government is a privately owned and controlled government it would look like an aristocracy or monarchy. If a government is 'public' owned it would be socialism pure and simple. Instead of redistributing money you are redistributing agency, voting right, and the ability to control any minority.

Pro tip: If something is owned publicly it is necessarily a function of socialism.

Are you retarded?

>Pro tip: If something is owned publicly it is necessarily a function of socialism.

This must be the cringiest thing I've read all week. The worst thing is that you are most likely not ironic.
Read up the definition of socialism please faggot

Not an argument.

Are you retarded?

What 1984 describes are SJWs, people with a noble goal being led into the extremes by the government they are fighting against.

Why do you think INGSOC is called "English sociallists"?

Orwell calls the majority of the left out for what they truly are, totalitarian ideolouges who use the masses as a way to gain power.

It doesnt really matter wether he himself believes in left wing ideas, his book has nothing to do with the left that he wishes to exists but everything with the left we see today. Hungry for power and willing to mislead the masses to further their goals.

The EU as it is today, totalitarian, anti-democratic, anti-peopleand led by power hungry elites, who only care about leftwing ideas when talking to the masses, is exactly what he warned against.

What's next? Animal Farm actually being a metaphor for Trump's presidency or some shit? Normies should stop butchering good books and stick to Harry Potter.

Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production; as well as the political ideologies, theories, and movements that aim to establish them.

>sweden

Ingsoc is a metafor for the Deutch Arbiter Partei you braindead degenerate. Leftism (mostly) has nothing to do with nationalism. A socialist party would never refer to itself as the English or Swedish socialist party. If they do it's most likely Nazbol

Also

>EU is leftwing
In that case left wing = capitalism you retard
>also implying immigration is possitive in socialism, which most socialist leaders have stopped or spoken against

Jesus christ you are retarded

Socialism is based on democratic control of the means of production. That doesn't make political democracy socialist, socialism merely uses democracy as a way of organising the economy. Seriously, I've never heard nor read anyone define democracy as a form of socialism.

Well that's the thing, Rojava doesn't seem to be socialist. It's a mixed economy sure, I just don't see how it's socialist if the means of production can still be owned privately.

well i geuss if its a productive way to govern it will pop back up somewhere else and live for more than a decade. We'll just have to wait and see.

Animal farm is a metafor for the russian revolution. Orwell hated the USSR because they weren't socialist.


>Socialism is worker control of means of production
>try to prove me wrong (Pro tip: it's impossible because that is the literal definition and what Marx wrote about)

I don't understand OP, the book is indeed about a far-left totalitarian regime, how are the posts wrong?

Orwell was obviously highly anti-Stalin but said he believed in socialism because of the "success" of Catalonia, which... *drumroll* collapsed a few years later.

He criticized statism and wanted an anarchist society, both of which are retarded in hindsight, but at the time the world was still divided between capitalism and communism and it took decades for communism to show its true weaknesses.

Rojava follows a form of socialism called Communalism
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communalism

>USSR was communist
Try again

Your country will be nothing by 2050 and you're shilling it's demise, What a nice guy you are Sven keep up the good fight!

Ehh, I do agree that the immigrant situation is shit in Sweden, but all parties have signed off on an extreme immigrant regulation and we are deporting a lot of people. So no, we won't get cucked to death by 2050

>Ingsoc is a metafor for the Deutch Arbiter Partei you braindead degenerate.
It is called ENGLISH SOCIALISTS.
It is not even thinly vailed in any way that the party is far left.

Also it is NSDAP national sozialistische deutsche arbeiter partei.
Learn some history.

>A socialist party would never refer to itself as the English or Swedish socialist party.
CCP
CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY
CPSU
COMMUNIST PARTY OF THE SOVIET UNION
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party
you are braindead
There LITERALLY is a part called: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_of_Great_Britain

>>EU is leftwing
I SAID THE EXACT OPOSITE.
I argued that most of the EU officals are people who love to use leftist values to get power with the masses.


You dont even have an argument.
All you are doing is lying and missunderstanding everything I say.

You cannot get it into your head that Orwell is against todays, anti-democratic and anti-people left wing.

Economic distinction between capitalism and socialism is the distinction between private and public ownership. Any form of public ownership, democracy being public ownership if nothing else but agency, is necessarily socialism. You cannot privately own a piece of government. People have been writing about this extensively after the Russian revolution.

They were for all intents and purposes a socialist government.

I find odd that you are pro-socialism considering your country is built upon extreme libertarian views and became one of the richest countries in the world thanks to it.

>Democratic confederalism
>Communalism
Go away, Somalia

>What is useful idiot, Alex?

>we are deporting a lot of people
Yeah, Sven. I read about that. Also that you are sending them back with a decent pile of cash.
Now how do you think the other parasites of color in the deportees home towns are going to react when their cousins return from Swedistan saying. They wouldn't let us stay, and frankly it was filled with (choose any other muslim country than the deportees own). But hey, at least I got all these monies out of it

Jesus.

>Also it is NSDAP national sozialistische deutsche arbeiter partei.
I know I shortened it.

>CCP, soviet union, etc etc all have the nation in the name
Soviet isn't a nation. Russia is and it's not called the communist party of russia. But overall, yep I was wrong about party names, that was a retarded argument. I concede that.

orwell also wrote animal farm, you retard

a book that literally tells the story of the soviet union and why it sucks

orwell's a socialist yes, but a bad one
he was not a sheep to be led to the slaughter, if you did shit that he doesn't agree with then prepare to have your shit flayed right out in the open

remember he litterally said this:
>“The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable"...In the case of a word like democracy, not only is there no agreed definition, but the attempt to make one is resisted from all sides. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it: consequently the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning.”

if a leftist said that today then he'd be called a traitor

>between private and public ownership
of the means of production.

>arguing that alot of people here are retarded and don't know what socialism
>implying that makes me a socialist or communist in the first place

read the last part I wrote

>swedish businesses are failing
>we are starting to face problems with supporting the welfare state
>QUICK LETS TRY DEMOTRATIC SOCIALISM, THIS TIME IT WILL WORK!

I already responded to all of those arguments. Read the whole thread not just the top.

unnecessary condition.

>implying I am a democratic socialist

That's literally the phrase used in the core definition of socialism faggot

Commie, go kill yourself. We literally got the news that our stocks will crash along with the housing market. And now with less economic growth due to failing businesses unable to compete with the rest of the world due to huge taxes, we are at a point of no return.

You must be 18 to post here, you don't get to decide what you can do with other people's money.

Hopefully when everything crashes you'll be starving on the streets.

>"Democratic socialism as I understand it"
>muh perfect form of socialism

1984 depicts a socialist society whether you like it or not.

We live in a post-truth world.

>still implying I am a communist or socialist

Are you autistic?

He's right though.

Except the labels have been hijacked and changed.
Liberals hate liberalism
Democrats hate democracy
Socialists are anti-social
Peace keepers create wars
etc

I've just spent some time thumbing threw a few of the very few papers on communalism that I could find.

I like a lot of the ideas here, but it specifically intends to separate itself from liberalism when it comes to economics. This should immediately concern anyone reading it, there doesnt seem to be any sort of moral or ethical basis for any of the economic theory which was also the primary problem with marx. Unless you are a true believer and believe that the economic theory here is true dogmatically it doesnt hold up to scrutiny. The end result here is giant statues of a god king with no butthole like they have in dprk.

Not arguing for a "perfect socialism". I'm just saying most of you guys are retarded and have no idea what it is

>it is like this!! It doens't matter what Orwell wrote or thought about it! All that matters are my right wing SJW feelings!! Trump save me from these mudslims! They make me uncomfortable weeee weeeee

No user, we live in a pre-truth world.

>there doesnt seem to be any sort of moral or ethical basis for any of the economic theory which was also the primary problem with marx
Maximum kek

Read about history of modern economics, please faggot.

>Rojava
Aaaaghhhh-AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHH!!!
IM GOING TO FUCKING HANG YOU FUCKING KURD SHIT! GO AND DIE!
please leave my country thx.

I'm talking about communalism, and liberalism.

I dont need to read about economic history.

yes its in the google definition. But as I said its a not necessary condition of socialism and it limits application where it is not limited.

The definition that would most accurately describe socialism from which all attributes are a priori derrived would be social or public ownership.

You know that Orwell made a list of prominent leftists (including ones like Paul Robeson that he deemed ‘very anti-white’) and sent information about that to the IRD/Foreign Office so they would get sent down? Orwells idea of what a 'socialist' is, was prob way different than the average pol brigading libtard is today. :)

I have yet to read a rationalisation for theft, confiscation of private property and physical coercion against people's will.

>implying I am kurdish

Also the "aaghh" part was really cringy and autistic. A tip, if you are trying to make a point honey, which I know is hard for your undeveloped nationalist brain, making yourself look autistic doesnt help ;)

gotta love that the leftists has pretended that we ever lived in something else than a post-truth world

Right:
>MUH CREATIONISM!
>MUH GLOBAL WARMING FAUX

Left/Whole fucking Sweden:
>MUH IMMIGRANTS ARE GOOD
>MUH """""""EQUALITY"""""""
>MUH OPPRESIVENESS

> people feeding a bored swedish autist's poor attempts at political commentary / trolling

It's in every definition I've ever read, not specifically Google. It's the key arguing point of socialism, and it's what Marx talks about.

Capitalism is the real theft. More than 85% of the production value of a worker is stolen by the boss.

And no I am still not a communist or socialist.

>rojava

kys u filthy k*rd,

>Also that you are sending them back with a decent pile of cash.
Lol! So are Denmark ya tool! Even with more money than us Svens do. Lol!

>;)
Reddit's down the hall, to the left

Have you ever done an autism test? Also pic related

The primary problem with Marx is everything he ever wrote was based on faulty propositions.

In democratic socialism, we let the masses decide whose money we will steal and who will receive it! It's totally different from regular socialism. :)

Well I mean he was literally a Trotskist and was inspired by Trotskys book "Revolution Betrayed" since it literally follows a narrative from it.
Have you guys still thought like he was some freedum fighting anti-communist?

1984 is about Stalinism.

End of story.

Nice bait thread though, Sven, you got a few people anyway.

if the boss had no value, central planning would work

[spoiler]empirically, it doesnt[/spoiler]

you mean Sup Forums just made shit up that conforms to their politics? NO

>ITT Sup Forumstards the English speaking world over fall for the oldest identity politics meme.

>The primary problem with Marx is everything he ever wrote was based on faulty propositions.

Learn about the history of modern economics please you absolute retard

Consider social ownership of a consumer good for example. Tell me what the difference between that and memes of production in relation to how socialism functions.

I didn't say a boss has no value. I said that they abuse their possition of power like a monarch would way back before democracy. They steal and leech off the workers who provide most of the profit.

Theft is stealing against another's consent, workers voluntarily contribute their labour. I don't give a shit if you're communist, socialism is not ethical, don't try to argue that

>doesn't understand his own book
Explains the prose, I guess.

>Capitalism is the real theft. More than 85% of the production value of a worker is stolen by the boss.

Wow, you're completely retarded. Congrats.

The book is about control of language, history and thought. These fit 100 % to modern leftists, and not at all to modern right:
- Language: banned words, such as nigger, retard, spic etc. etc.
- History: revisionism, blacks built America, blacks built pyramids, Crusades were awful, Christianity was anti science, Islamic golden age, dark ages etc. etc. etc.
- Thought: Thought crimes are the worst offenses a person can commit nowadays. Racism, bigotry, micro aggressions, unconscious bias, sexism etc. etc.

Read the book, fuck off, kill yourself and so on. I'm so fucking tired of demolishing leftist 'arguments' when they are so devoid of all sense and reality. And for some reason the leftist 'arguments' are so fucking far spread and popular. I'm getting too tired to really engage with you cunts anymore. Soon I will snap and start using violence, since words are so ineffective. Sup Forums was right again.

I expect nothing less than pure ad hominem responses from a marxist.

post-scarcity delusion or labor theory of value.
Even two millennium ago Greeks understood that equality cant exist a posterori

I don't want to have my production value stolen by a boss. If I produce 4000$ a month I should earn that. A person who produces 4000$/month under capitalism usually earns around 1000$. Ofcourse, some of the value has to go to buying more equipment or improving the workplace. But most is stolen. Tell me how that isn't worse than Socialism. Also don't get me wrong, socialism isn't that good either. But atleast there are no leaching boss parasites.

First, it was an exaguration
Secondly, most economic philosofers agree with me, right and left. Even your libertarian bae Moleneux. His argument is that it isn't theft because of the risk a company mananger is put into by leading.
Now who's the retard? Go read a book imbicile.

na, I dont think that's true either.

Marx's critiques of capitalism are well founded.

He never really argued for communism at all. In the communist manifesto, he just said "well its happening, this is how its gunna work from now on", and people took that as a directive from their new god Marx himself to revolt and start communist states. It was prophetic, and in that light at least a bad estimate, just a couple hundred years off I bet.

I imagine this is also the reason later in life that marx declined to call himself a marxist, he said publicly that people were doing things in his name that he did not subscribe to.

Kek
Still not a marxist.

How did you determine the value of your work?

Wait, you think literary analysis has a "correct answer"?

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

>I don't want to have my production value stolen by a boss
So don't work for him.

>If I produce 4000$ a month I should earn that
If you can't produce that much by yourself (without a boss, distribution company, marketing, etc.), then you're not worth that much by yourself.

>But atleast there are no leaching boss parasites.
AHAHAHAHAHA, if you think bureaucrats are more productive than capitalistic managers you've got another thing coming buddy

"honey"
the fuck is this am i talking with a bot?
try harder with the bait bot-kun

>implying SJW cancer is leftism
Liberalism is capitalism and therefore right wing. Kill yourself