Why hasn't Islam been able to undergo a reformation comparable to what Christianity underwent...

Why hasn't Islam been able to undergo a reformation comparable to what Christianity underwent? It might fix the problems with that shit religion.

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Because the muslims believe the words are Gods own channeled through Muhammed, their childfucking prophet. So in order to change anything, they would need a new prophet to speak God's words.

Christians believe the Bible is God's word, so I don't get the difference.

What's in the box?

youtube.com/watch?v=UW6AZ38CPTQ

grouping christianity with a barbaric ideology like islam under the same banner of religion is the problem

Satan

No. The bible is written by man and their observations of happenings.

The Quran is supposedly written by God through Muhammed.

Stop being dumb.

Muslims already kill each other on mass based on tiny differences between Sunnis and Shiite.
They'd lose their minds if you came out with a Koran 2.0

I mean I'm a Christian and believe the Bible was written by men inspired by God, and has been corrupted over hundreds of years. If Muhammad was compelled to write the Koran because god told him, what the hell is the difference? Couldn't people just interpret it differently?

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Islam is immune to being jewed doe.

Haha, pol loves jews though.

But eat a dick, regardless. You can't 'reform' Islam.

fuck me sideways hit the wrong button

anyways, technically the Quran is the uncorrupted book and mohammad as the mouthpiece of god, if i remember correctly

the (((oldtestiment people))) wrote all those sub religions to serve theirs... stop being pawns.

>If Muhammad was compelled to write the Koran because god told him, what the hell is the difference?
Muhammad was compelled to recite, not write.

Also this recitation has been unchanged since it was revealed. So there's that.

Because christianity's reforms were fucking terribke. They resulted in radical groups such as the jesuites while accomplishing little positive effect

Yes they could which is the Shia and Sunni battle.

Muhammed was an illiterate fuck and therefore muslims believe it is God himself who wrote it. Unlike the Bible.

Muslim intellectual tradition was destroyed with Baghdat in 1258.

You know that Bahai faith?
It was an attempt at reforming this shit religion. Too bad it's fringe as fuck.

It would seem Islam doesn't have to change jack shit. The rest of the world is scared to offend muslims and will bend over backwards to accommodate it regardless of how backwards it is and how much it clashes without own culture.

What we really need is a strong leader running a major western country that won’t take shit from shitskins and be dictated to by the naive. If only we had someone like th…… oh wait up

Christianity started out as a pacifist religion before being corrupted with violence, political power, and greed. Then it was reformed into pacifism, less greed, and less political.

Islam started out as a violent and warlike religion. And it just kept being violent and warlike. You can't reform something that was always violent in the first place.

>they would need a new prophet to speak God's words.

And hippy bullshit that is incompatible with Muhammads message.

You could say Sikhs had a go too, but only ended up making Islam stronger.

Islam literally cannot lose. They have the final prophet. There is no way to out-theologise this point.

Spare this leaf on the day of the rake.

Christianity was a peaceful, coherent religion spread to barbarian peoples. Islam was a coherent religion spread to barbarians, but it included violence in its precepts to spread itself. Relative to the religions it replaced, it is an enlightened one.

The problem is that it does not have the flexibility of the Christianity or Judaism. The Christian Bible for example, has messages of peace as well as of violence.

Also, Christianity grew up with our present morality. It has been with the West for millennia. It has seen the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, etc. The Mohammedans haven't.

Pacifism is shit anyway. Marxism shits on it easily.

Oh yeah forgot the smart "last prophet" they put in.

>Islam literally cannot lose. They have the final prophet. There is no way to out-theologise this point.

this. best bet is to help stabilize the region in general and pray these people don't find new things to kill each other for

The death penalty for apostasy is a good deterrent.

To mudslimes, it doesn't matter what's inside the box.
They say bullshit like: "Abraham built it because God told him to do it."
And that at time that faggot loli-fucker was living it became a place for paganist arabs to put their idols in, then he destroyed those idols and ordered all mudslimes to pray while towards it as a symbol of unity.

I don't think I've ever seen an Iranian poster

Jesus was a hippie who only became violent when merchants were peddling wares outside of a Church, he never killed anyone. Mohammad was a bona fide warlord who married a child. It's not much surprise that Islam would turn out a bit more messed up.

And with your new laws you will never see one in person.

Then you must be new.
The only reason why Islam exists today is explained by this user: If it wasn't for the death penalty, I would gladly announce to the world that I don't care whether God exist or not and that whether religion is right or wrong because I would remain a degenerate either way.

Nope. That's a slippery slope you're talking about going down.

I don't think you understand.

Christians believe that The Bible is a historical record observed by man with the celestial parts being passed onto men by angels.

Muslims believe that the Korean is the actual word of God and that he used Mohammad as a secretary, writing it down and spreading it.

Actually Muhammad is specifically said to not be channeling God's words or anything like that. Canonically he's a perfect follower of the Old Testament and not other "impure" versions.

Muhammad only attacked the Medina tribe, the source of this warlord myth, when they wouldn't stop attacking Muslims

Look at that, I agree with a burger for once.

The only option is containment.

But that will fail unless the West can come up with its own comprehensive ideology, because while a cultural vacuum exists Islam will infiltrate and capitalise.

I would like to think strict Catholicism can do it but it has 70 years of cuckoldry to undo, which looks extremely unlikely.

I don't know, I am at a loss for answers.

goes back to the byzantine empire.

go pick up a history book.

"Reformation"? You mean you want Muslims to become MORE fundamentalist and take the Koran literally? They already had that and it was funded by the Saudis called the Wahhabist movement.

Christianity is the way it is because in grew in a Hellenistic world and thus is based on reason and arguments. See Scholasticism for more.

Bullshit. The koran was changed many times in its early history, as told in the hadith that muslims choose to ignore

My mistake. It seems you are correct.

>Christianity is the way it is because in grew in a Hellenistic world and thus is based on reason and arguments
You obviously are not familiar with Muslim history. These sand niggers had access to Greek knowledge for many centuries. It didn't change the religion.

They went anti science and killed off intellectuals some hundreds of years back. They went through an UNenlightenment period.

you ignore the difference between the peoples who inhabit the religions.
Western culture is made up of far more than just Christianity
Middle-eastern culture is made up of very little

>The koran was changed many times in its early history,
Wrong. They added pronunciation marks to the text to preserve its meaning for foreigners. It didn't change the actual recitation.

The rise of Islam itself was the Reformation of the Middle East.

>the Bible was written by men inspired by God, and has been corrupted over hundreds of years

t. Ahmed

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RARE.

how did it make you feel when our army killed that 14-year-old boy

Also burning a Quran is the correct way to dispose of old wore out copies.

it does not trigger the mudslimes.

You have an army?

Innovation is literally forbidden. Read their fucking scripture, quickest way to understand their mindset

>why hasn't this specific and particular historical event peculiar to western civilization also happened in this other civilization
>aren't all civilization the same and thus the same things should happen in each?

Search your heart for the answer.

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Stfu you uneducated mongoloid. The Bible is preached as being inspired of God. Therefore, it is the word of God written by men; just as if a boss tells a secretary to write something.

There have been dozens of people throughout the centuries who tried to reform Islam
They all ended up dead, usually very quickly once they popped up on the radar.

Islam was led by a general and spread through military conquest. They may have had access to ancient Greek writings, but the culture of rational debate was long dead. Christianity was formed by the likes of St. Paul who traveled to Corinth to argue with Greeks.

Vastly different.

It actually did for some time. See the "Islamic Golden Age". Then again, it was more like the "Persian Golden Age" because it was mostly Persian Muslims; not the original Arabs. Even so, the common language of Arabic and Islam provided facilitated a cohesive intellectual community.

Eventually, the effects of Islam (or more specifically Arabization) crept in and they regressed. Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, and others. Whereas Christianity civilized Europe, Islam regressed all of these bro-tier cultures via Arabization.

Oh we have an actual vermin in the house. Muhammad wasn't a prophet.

> It might fix the problems with that shit religion.
NO.

I don't think it's exclusive to Western civilization. Look how many different schools of Buddhism there are.

The only way to reform it is to become a warlord, take over and rewrite the book.

You have to be Mohamed 2.0

Then we have our next goal.

>wanting an Islamic reformation

Do you want all of our countries to go up in flames?

This is part one of his lecture but it is specifically about the Quran. It's the best crash course on it you'll ever see.

youtu.be/k7BRjbGVISI

Not my godam problem negrito.

The Angel Gabriel gave Mohammad the verbatim word of God, which Mohammad recorded.

The Qur'an claims over and over again that it is the restored, perfect, and unalterable word of God.

The Holy Bible is simply more complex in its origins and thus does not make the same claim.

Vastly incorrect.

Baghdad was a pretty epic place of debate and learning before it got its shit pushed in my the mongols.

> Catholic Church adds shit that isn't in the Bible
> Reformation happens and Protestants follow literal word of the Bible
See yet how that would go poorly with Islam?
Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Whatever differences may exist between different school of Buddhism, I can probably safely say that none of them were the result of something like a reformation, which would imply at the very least a politico-religious break from a single authoritative source of religious interpretation on the part of certain nations. The Reformation was a specifically Christian European phenomena and the idea that it "must" happen in Islam is merely a symptom of our western tendency to see universalism where there exists none, to believe that there is such a thing as a "general religion" and that, therefore, the information which we can gather from one is necessarily applicable to the other.

This mistake is extremely common and probably comes from the fact that we, as westerners, aren't very religious at all and are generally infected with notions of universality, "scientific" generalizing, and progress.

Because it's not Christianity. It has different precepts, therefore the arguments that caused Christianity to take the path it did are not necessarily available to Islam. I know everyone wants to believe everything is "equal" and interchangeable, but it's not.

Belief affects action and Muslims have different beliefs.

Because Islam is already perfect. Mashallah

The Quran is supposed to be the verbatim word of god. Imagine trying to justify changing/ignoring/altering it.

Islam is only nominally a religion. It is in practice a totalitarian legal temporal order, a government, or really a meta-government. Several key structures are built into the center of its documents, guaranteeing conformity and continuity, in a way that never happened with Christianity. To learn about this more specifically read Catastrophic Failure by Stephen Coughlin.
tldr it was specifically designed to be reformation-proof.

Christianity went through the Thirty Years War, which was basically the Christian Civil War. It was possibly the most brutal war in Europe up until that point and depopulated a quarter of Germany. Europeans came out of the Thirty Years war with a collective movement of wanting less Church in politics and it kick started the Enlightenment era.

If I had to reform Islam, I'd make it accepting of dogs and forbid slavery. Those are really the only two problems with Islam.

i bet if you get a genes test it would be 100% faggot

While what you say about Muslims believing the Quran is the direct word of God while the Bible is just heavenly inspired men is true, you're still wrong on the premise and a complete retard.

>The Qur'an claims over and over again that it is the restored, perfect, and unalterable word of God.

The Koran claims that there are GOLDEN TABLET in heaven on which there is some kind of perfect record, but the Koran itself, as far as I know, does not claim to be perfectly preserved. Only the original heavenly tablet.

If this sounds like bullshit to you it's because it is, but I didn't make the religion.

So sayeth the Islamic propaganda machine who wish to restore Muslim's confidence in their own selves.

So is the Bible. You see how that went.

Christian scholars in the Middle Ages were willing to debate theology and compare ideas about how the Bible should be understood.
Muslim scholars saw the Koran as a book of laws that needed to be followed exactly as written, so no discussion was (or is) allowed.

Marriage between cousins and the dowry also has to go. I get banning alcohol but pork should be ok.

Christianity is more of a hobby now than a religion though.

Is this bait?
Quran encourages the raising of dogs for hunting and permits eating meat that they catch.
Slavery no longer practised.

Wut? No it's not. It's the testimony of several people.

Why would I ban alcohol and permit pedophilia? Why would we allow a man to have four wives? Why should we kill a person who either talks against or leave the religion?

There's not much to be admired in Islam.

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>Marriage between cousins
If I'm not mistaken that's due to Arab culture

>Dowry
Yeah this is bad

>Pork
Disgusting

What does Sup Forums think of The Incoherence of the Philosophers and its influence on the Islamic world?

>So sayeth the Islamic propaganda machine
Haha, your argument is shit and so are you for reverting to this non-argument. Do some research some time.

Islam IS going through a reformation, that's the problem. The Christian reformation returned to the fundamentals, that's exactly what's happening in Islam now. They're doing exactly what Mohammed did

Slavery is permitted in Islam whether or not it is practiced. It is de facto still used by the Gulf states and actually practiced by ISIS, which as we all know is rather Islamic.

The Koran does not encourage the raising of dogs.

Muhammad allegedly said that angel would flee your house if there were dogs in it, or would not listen to your prayers if you had been touched by dog saliva.

No matter what the case may be, Islam is fucking stupid.

It is reforming itself as we speak friendo.

Salafism is Reformed Islam, Muhammad Abdul Wahab is the Muslim John Calvin, right down to smashing shrines of Saints.

Check out T. Lothrop Stoddard, The New World of Islam.

So how the fuck do you explain how there are so many totally differect sects in Islam? Salafist, Ahmadis, Alawites, Twelvers, Sufis, etc. They share some basic things like but the rhetoric and traditions between all of them are totally different. Islam's arguably more diverse than Christianity.

>dowry
Wut.

Dogs are "not clean enough" to have as pets. Slavery isn't practiced anymore but what's stopping a Muslim from having a sex slave if it's forbidden?

>petro dollar flowing in the west to pimp the "Islamic golden age"

Muslims are insecure about the utter shittiness of their own selves and need to be reassured.

>If I'm not mistaken that's due to Arab culture

Muhammad himself married his cousin so no.

>thinking pork is disgusting

You're barely human.