Has true communism ever been achieved?

Communism is the best form of economic and political direction that humans can hope to attain. All the world's problems stem from excess and greed, bolstered by the capitalists.

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror_(Spain)
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washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2016/12/05/fidel-castro-and-communisms-flawed-record-with-black-people/
nytimes.com/2013/03/24/opinion/sunday/for-blacks-in-cuba-the-revolution-hasnt-begun.html
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Catalonia

communism can be acheived with moral and hardworking individuals. As you know no society is 100% made of individuals. Thats why it fails.

Your thinking of marxism-leninism AKA state socialism. Look into worker based socialism.

>Catalonia
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror_(Spain)

Read up on the red terror and all the death those lefty idiots brought to the land. Successful my ass.

No, by definition it has not. It still sucks as much as ever though.

I didn't say it was successful. It was real communism. They even abolished money.

Has true capitalism ever been achieved?

Families are communist
Jewish kibutzs are communist
Exactly 0 (zero) succesful attempts on larger scale

They should kick you out of the country you piece of shit.

Listen up Pleb: Communism never happens. Idiots like you revolt, overthrow the government and put in place an authoritarian socialist state with less rights than before. Marx says the sate will step aside eventually and labour will self organise. That never happens.

Only state socialism.

And you will be the first to be round up and shot by the regime you put into place. So you may as well kill yourself now you subversive piece of shit.

capitalism made me poor because when i lost my job as a gender studies teacher i had nowhere else to go this is why we need communism because i could keep my job

Oy vey

True *ism is never achieved.

I don't get why people aren't proud of the USSR though. It was magnificent.

It never will.
Why would someone sit there 12 hours a day for years trying to figure out the next big invention if their still only going to have the same wage and money afterwards.

nigga wat? at times they literally starved to death

true communism is only sustainable if it is controlled by a super computer. Communism offers up too much power to its leaders, and power corrupts

>Form communist utopia
>Get steamrolled by nationalists

Failure to protect the integrity of your territory is not how you win user.

Anarchist Ukraine.
Anarchist Communes in Korea.

Communism works fine on the small scale, but as soon as you expand it to include large numbers of people - especially those who don't believe in it 100% dogmatically - it falls apart because it can't respond to any selfishness. Capitalism works so well because it's based on selfishness, and not damaged by selflessness, whereas communism is the other way around, and so unstable.

...

It gets even worse, because they couldn't even keep the communists from attacking them. So basically, even if the leftists somehow won they would just devolve into infighting between the anarchists, communists, and socialists.

they also went from "barely able to till their fields with sticks and rocks" to "largest industrial nation on Earth and literally beat Hitler and took Berlin" in thirty years. That's pretty fucking magnificent.

Im sorry OP that you're having anxiety about finishing high school or leaving your community college with a sociology degree.
But Communism is not real,
Its essentially a conscripted idea of pajama boys whom can't accept the consequences of self responsibility that is why it will always fail.
Make better decisions in your life while you're young. Then you will benefit from Capitalism

But communism is based on self interest just like capitalism. Its in your own interest to kill your boss and run it collectively because that way you get paid more because you don't have to pay your boss.

Excess greed? Look at the size of you, you cancer.

Ya know what's even better? Going from a poor 3rd world craphole to the most economically powerful Latin American country. And unlike Stalin and his 60 million deaths, all it took was a few helicopters and couple thousand dead commies.

This is true. At the time of the 80s they were propping up cities and resettling hundreds of thousands of people into nuclear plant cities, mining towns, and resource rich land areas.

They were building nuclear plants every year and spanning across the entire country.

Then it all went downhill and the birth rate dropped and now Russia is a shithole. They needed millions more people to continue working the land and making industry.

...

Capitalism allows for coops, communes, and socialist enclaves.

Capitalism isn't voluntary. Not everyone has the capital to create a small company and you can't even live in the woods because the land if privately owned. Your choices in capitalism are work or starve.

i'd like to humbly point to the fact that i'm from post-soviet country, and socialism halted our development for like 45 years. just look at Poland 1989 and 2004 (before joining eu). 15 years, world of difference

Communism if done right is easily the best shit ever. Look at how fucking prosperous vietnam is currently. Their gdp is huge for such a small nation, and they're doing very well. They're still communist and their growthe ate is the most in the entire world.

Even they don't think there communist. They have a market economy which they plan to turn into a planned economy sometime in the future.

the penalty for communism is death.

Look at how fucking prosperous vietnam is. The country is communism done right. Their growth rate is the highest on the planet and they're doing great. This is how communism should be, this is communism done right.

Ants and Bees

see

Of course it has, and its failed. Like always.

>In 1986, the Sixth National Congress of the Communist Party introduced socialist-oriented market economic reforms as part of the Đổi Mới reform program. Private ownership was encouraged in industries, commerce and agriculture
>Private ownership was encouraged in industries, commerce and agriculture
>Private ownership

...

your choices for communism is starve or gulag

Not even close. Hierarchy is quite rigid in bee and ant colonies. Try again.

>Not everyone has the capital to create a small company
Do you have a computer? Do you have any home tools, like a hammer and drills? Congratulations, you can become your own self employed entrepreneur.

>you can't even live in the woods because the land if privately owned
Go to Alaska or the upper peninsula of Michigan. The land is likely owned, but it's not like anyone will ever find you.

>Your choices in capitalism are work or starve
That never changes under any economic system, you simply collectivize the starving.

...

I wouldn't say they were barely able to till their fields with sticks and rocks, but the transformation was still pretty profound.

Tell me your views since you have first hand experience. Why did it set back your country? Why are soviet bloc countries now developmentally held back?

It works in VERY VERY small tribal communities around the world. On the large scale though I doubt it'll ever work

Nice revisionism, commiecuck. How many died during the great leap forward and the Holodomor? What about the political persecutions and all those died in gulags under Stalin? You people seem to always forget about those.

>Do you have a computer? Do you have any home tools, like a hammer and drills? Congratulations, you can become your own self employed entrepreneur.

Basically all companies of this sort don't work. And plus your telling me I have to risk starvation just to avoid being a wage slave?

>Go to Alaska or the upper peninsula of Michigan. The land is likely owned, but it's not like anyone will ever find you.

>B-but that violates NAP.

>That never changes under any economic system, you simply collectivize the starving.

Not in an anarchist gift economy. Everyone gets what they need to live and can get more luxury by working and gaining labor vouchers.

>Has true communism ever been achieved

Yes, in the Soviet Union.

How many died in all that imperialism? How many died in the many economic collapses and famines in capitalism?

It literally only works if people genuinely give up the self and become ethnocentric.

Your "True Communism" has never been tried because it is literally impossible to implement. A single individual taking advantage of the altruism of his fellows is all it takes to doom Communism to collapse

Should our species evolve into a sort of hive mind then your precious Communism might work but God willing that will never happen

Plenty but I'm willing to bet in modern times communism has killed more.

There's a reason why imperialism generally isn't mainstream anymore. Sure capitalism is bad as well, but no system is perfect.

What about a decentralized planned economy?

>How many died in the many economic collapses and famines in capitalism?

Communism has killed far far more than those that die under capitalism. I'm sure you'll give me a list of countries in Africa where millions are dying of starvation but that's just niggers being niggers.

How do you plan it if it's not centralized? Sounds like ancom to me.

Lots of purging of "reactionary elements" in the phase one of establishing regime - that is killing or deporting political enemies (often educated people)
Central planning is very ineffective, factories often produced excess of goods that weren't in demand and not enough needed ones, lack of feedback from the market
Basically in socialism/communism you have to somehow force people to work, because they don't have incentive to do so
in capitalism you force yourself, and that's much more effective

reds must die

I guess all those Russians were just Russians being Russians and all those Chinese who died were just...

>Basically all companies of this sort don't work
Oh, then I better tell my grandpa that his business has actually been failing for the past 30 years.

>And plus your telling me I have to risk starvation just to avoid being a wage slave?
>Everyone gets what they need to live and can get more luxury by working and gaining labor vouchers
So then I become a labor voucher slave in your economy? I have to work or starve? What if I don't feel like working?

...

have local communities plan there own economy within there own borders then trade.

There will never be a working political system on this planet until we develop AI more intelligent than us. Until humanity is removed from the ruling class, peace will never be achieved.

Until then, all nations are doomed to failure.

No. That was mostly Stalin just killing because he wanted to kill, along with Mao and Pol Pot.

Stalin, Marx, Lenin...These were people who genuinely hated pretty much anyone and just liked to kill.

>Anarchist Ukraine.
Steamrolled by the bolsheviks.
>Anarchist Communes in Korea.
Destroyed by Sung and the commies

Sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice humans are very greedy and power hungry. Eventually communities will begin to fight over control and power.

If humans weren't humans, yeah it'd work.

>Oh, then I better tell my grandpa that his business has actually been failing for the past 30 years.

Literally 8% succeed. I have to bet my life on 92 to 8 odds?

>So then I become a labor voucher slave in your economy? I have to work or starve? What if I don't feel like working?

You won't have to. However you'll basically just get rations and a small apartment. But if you go to work you can get some vouchers and get more luxuries. Eventually everything will be so automated hardly anyone will have to work.

No, all of the deaths under Stalin and Mao were as a result of communism and piss poor planning by their governments.

>nytimes.com/2016/03/24/world/americas/obamaurges-raised-voices-incubas-husheddiscussions-ofrace.html?_r=0

>washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2016/12/05/fidel-castro-and-communisms-flawed-record-with-black-people/

>nytimes.com/2013/03/24/opinion/sunday/for-blacks-in-cuba-the-revolution-hasnt-begun.html

It turns out that even in Cuba and under a socialist government black people tend to do poorly. Really makes you think, huh?

>I'm so glad we are finally free comrade!
>Me too comrade, now start digging
>Won't we dig together brother?
>No, some of us are a little more equal than others comrade.

Not even close.
Pinochet's policies caused economic disaster and widespread poverty, leading to two economic crises until he repealed some of his policies in the 80s. While Chile was somewhat more wealthy in the 90s than in the 70s, the transformation wasn't anywhere near the magnitude of Stalin's Russia. The closest right-wing equivalent would possibly be Suharto's reign in Indonesia, and even that involved the killing of millions, the invasion of a nearby country, and the theft of literal tens of billions of dollars.

Thats why the state is there to stop communities from going to war. Otherwise its functions are kept minimal.

I was referring specifically to the Spanish Red Terror, which was genuinely dwarfed by the Spanish Civil War and Franco's purges.

Money is power. Without controlling money or the economy, a states power is useless. These communities would also have to pay for the state's expenses, which they could easily deny to do.

>Literally 8% succeed. I have to bet my life on 92 to 8 odds?
You would be self employed. Pretty sure those statistics are just counting the businesses that actually try to branch out and buy property and hire other people.

>However you'll basically just get rations and a small apartment
So basically, I work until I can get someone to "gift" me a car and a little entertainment, then I spend the rest of my life never working again, along with my friends and family. Sounds pretty good user, as long as you promise to keep the rest of the people working hard to support me.

>le nigger meme
So I guess Mao's killings don't matter because it's just Chinese being Chinese...
Great logic.

Answer for that then. Black people are incapable of starting a civilization or keeping a job.

Also, the Red terror led to Franco's purges. Leftists killed 72,000 people. Franco saw how mentally ill leftists were and purged his country of them like anyone with a brain should.

has true anything been tried? can they even be tried with humans?

are the perfect worlds creation of our mind, labeled as pefect as they are within our vision, restricted by how much we know?

look at what kind of people promote communism, its the simpeltons mostly who gets fooled thanks to incapabality to think beyond their own limitations

want to go beyond? think something you havent before, such as "maybe my ideas do not work, maybe i let myself fool daily of the very reality i live in"

Stalin wasn't killing solely because he wanted to kill. He was a paranoid fuck who wanted nothing to get in the way of his plans and steamrolled anyone who tried. Lenin was actually fighting for something he believed in and wasn't paranoid like Stalin, though he still wasn't averse to killing people in his way. Marx wasn't involved in killing at all.

First of all, there have been black civilizations (inb4 ebin dank memes) and there are black countries that have expanded or are expanding rapidly. Look up Thomas Sankara's presidency in Burkina Faso.
Second of all, capitalism hasn't just lead to problems in Sub-Saharan Africa. It has lead to serious issues in Latin America, Asia, and Eastern Europe in addition to smaller issues in Europe and North America.
>the Red Terror led to Franco's purges
Franco's coup and killings predated the Red Terror. Neither was justified.

>Second of all, capitalism hasn't just lead to problems in Sub-Saharan Africa. It has lead to serious issues in Latin America, Asia, and Eastern Europe in addition to smaller issues in Europe and North America.
It's caused a heck of a lot fewer problems than communism though.

>has my fairy tales world ever been achieved
lol no faggot

It's okay to admit that niggers are trash. Even in a supposed system of government where everyone is equal they prove that they are somehow........less.

My overall point is that communism has always resulted in disaster and always will. The sheer death toll that most communist countries have to cause in order to stay afloat should have most people dismissive of it, not advocating for it like revisionist idiots like you.

Thou capitalism is flawed, it is still the best system available.

Every government that has ever existed has always been an oligarchy, whether it was made obvious or not. Especially so-called "Communist" governments.

>Has true communism ever been achieved?
Soviet union and all the commie nations after. The last attempt will be the government of the antichrist. The beast system. It will fail miserably.

Well no. Because it never will be. There is no such thing as perfect governance. That and socialism doesn't lead to communism, as marx or Lenin believed. It goes one of three ways. The socialist system inevitably crashes, and one of three things happen:
>1: Socialists ousted from power, capitalism returns as economic system and freedom and prosperity return.
>2: Fascists take over, instill governmental control of industry and nationalism, which creates the same authoritarian system as socialism but lasts a little longer due to a slightly competitive market. The fascists may eventually return things to Capitalism and freedom (example: Pinochet) or the system collapses and freedom returns.
>3. The socialists maintain power, but to do so they create an authoritarian system by which they can now forcefully redistribute anything they need to make the system work. As the system keeps faltering temporary booms offer hope but inevitably the system fails and capitalism and freedom return.
The reason things always return to Capitalism is this: Capitalism is a chaotic system which is powered by human nature, and is efficient so long as it isn't regulated or interfered with by government. Chaos is the natural state of the universe, and in terms of economics taming chaos is not a good idea. Kek does not smile upon this, an that is why socialism fails. Socialism fails because it makes unequal people equal by dragging down successful people and giving unearned prosperity to the weak. Socialism fails because it is founded upon the abolition of one of man's most essential freedoms, personal property. When a man cannot truly own anything and the state can take away anything he has you entering a realm of existence that is pointless. What the communists want when they tell you socialism leads to the promised land of 'communism' is to lure you into a system of which you will lose every real freedom you have. Only they will have benefited, and you will gain nothing.

I think that true communism couldt be achieved without 2 factors:
1. Cornucopias. I.e. very cheap 3d printers/plants that make the most common goods like food, electronics, drugs, clothes, houses, etc.
2. Really effective planning system (probably, based on bigdata and AI)

Also, comunism doesnt answer the question how non-material goods should be distributed.

But both of those things help capitalism prosper greatly as well.

no, stalinism was probably the closest we've come, but even stalin himself in his later years stated that small businesses are needed to make up for the deficiencies of central planning.

pure communism cannot work without maybe 25 generations of straight brainwashing so that people are naturally not greedy, not success driven, and would rather sacrifice for the greater good than their own family, without the coercion the state uses

That still doesn't take care of the central planning problem, and it is based on the assumption that you even can rewrite human nature.

exactly, pure communism will never work.
will an extremely heavy handed state like stalinism, central planning can work.

however in the end none of those systems have survived and only capitalism stands the test of time

Yes. Also, capitalism solves this ( ) without need of all-tracking big brother.

I think that capitalism with socialism elements would be the best.

Traditional families have an internal class system.

I like Arachno-Capitalism.